Can a guy really tell? [Archive]

Eugene

10-20-2002, 09:25 PM

Well, I had a discussion with another fellow hobbyist Akshun on the subject of a guy's abbility to know exactly, if his girl had an orgasm. He was "pro" and I was "con". Eventually he agreed with me that there is no logical determination of it happening or not, and even if a guy is absolutely sure (and actually is right) it is still just an educated guess and in no way factual knowledge.
Another similar example (that we also discussed) was a man's ability to know if his child is really his. Unlike a woman, who certainly is the one to know this for sure, a man can only assume that. Or hope, anyway, LOL
So let's hear other opinions on this subject. If I have to guess, there is probably a good number of men who are sure they can tell... But there will be absolutely no women, who would agree with them.

Kimmie

10-20-2002, 09:41 PM

Most men can not tell.

If they could they wouldn't ask, "Did you cum?"

As for a kid being his.. I am not even touching that one.

jp1064

10-20-2002, 09:58 PM

Let me tell you, when you see her thigh and stomach musles have that uncontrolled quivering, she is having one. No doubt in my mind. You can't fake that!

Eugene

10-20-2002, 09:58 PM

Kimmie, since you've said "most men", does it mean that there were some men who could? Or did you really mean that most men can't guess it right?

Eugene

10-20-2002, 10:00 PM

How would we know that a woman can't fake that, if she would not tell us? Think about it.

popeye

10-20-2002, 10:06 PM

No offense to anyone, but you can believe what you will. I have had the good fortune of having developed honest relationships with a few lovers in my life. In a few cases I would ask them to show me how to truly please them. The reaction typically was a look of surprise, then one of ‘great I could get into this.’ I’ll tell you this, when a woman has a big “O” it is pretty obvious. However, just like men, the intensity of an “O” can vary depending on a woman’s level of arousal. Just like a healthy guy can shoot like a geyser in one instance, and then dribble the next, the intensity of a woman’s “O” can vary.

Here is the kicker; if a woman is relaxed with you and she is in tune with her body she can definitely control the intensity of the “O”. I had one lover whose “Os” were so intense that she didn’t want to have them too often because she would see stars and get a headache afterwards- but I loved it. In this lover’s case, the way she got off via oral was drastically different from when induced by stimulation by fingers- the latter was more intense. In this case, during the course of our relationship she only got-off with only penis stimulation once, our relationship lasted a year and the half. Unfortunately, she was becoming more comfortable with her body and our relationship towards the end of our relationship, but I had to break it off. And the sex was really getting better towards the end as well but I digress. In another case, during a one-night stand with a married woman (she is a swinger), two-thirds of the bed was soaking wet due to the level of her arousal. During intercourse I could not really tell she was “Oing”. All the signs were different from anything I had ever experienced with the exception of the “leaky faucet syndrome”- that is when a woman is gushing or squirting (I bet the same guys who said you can’t tell when a woman O’s will also say there is no such thing as female ejaculation). But then again I have experienced gushers where the woman never “O’d”. She stated her “Os” were more than she could count, and when hubby came home he was shocked at how wet the bed got. According to her, he apparently was so turned on by this he balled her like a maniac in the soaking bed- to each his own.

The point is, if you can get in tune with a woman’s body you sometimes can tell. Not all the time, but definitely a good number of times. Wetness is definitely a key indicator of level of arousal. Some women twitch uncontrollably, others shiver, for some their vagina becomes a vice grip, and for others they become flush afterwards. But you can tell, and if you can’t it is okay. Just have fun and make the most of the opportunities.

Regards

Pop

no. 6

10-20-2002, 10:14 PM

No matter how good the session with an escort, I never believe that they are enjoying the sex or having orgasms. I hope they find it a pleasant, proffessional encounter, but, orgasms, I really doubt it. Both of my ex-wives were pretty honest. When they were in the mood they were extremely expressive. When they weren't, to paraphrase "they just laid there".

Kimmie

10-20-2002, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by Eugene
Kimmie, since you've said "most men", does it mean that there were some men who could? Or did you really mean that most men can't guess it right?

I mean some do, some dont.

jp1064

10-20-2002, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by Eugene
How would we know that a woman can't fake that, if she would not tell us? Think about it. I don't think you can fake that. I just tried it and damn near broke my pelvis. You'd have to be able to minutely control your leg muscles and I don't think you can voluntarily do it. Give it a try Eugene.

Ever see this in a porn movie. You can definitely tell they are coming.

popeye

10-20-2002, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by no. 6
No matter how good the session with an escort, I never believe that they are enjoying the sex or having orgasms. I hope they find it a pleasant, proffessional encounter, but, orgasms, I really doubt it. Both of my ex-wives were pretty honest. When they were in the mood they were extremely expressive. When they weren't, to paraphrase "they just laid there".

I understand your point, but I have had numerous professional encounters that allow me to disagree with you. And in most instances the women volunteered the information without prompting. One of my favorite encounters was with Sarah at Julie's. I came so hard I was too weak to stand, and she turned to me kissed me and thanked me for the orgasm she recieved. She is multi-orgasmic and other reviewers on the web have experienced her O's as well. However, she did tell me I was special-Joke!!!... Actually, in my experienc a lot of the older Julie's girls do get-off in session. I can't say I had the same experience with the younger ones I had met there.

Pop

betty_snj

10-20-2002, 10:26 PM

if the man doesn't have his fingers (not one but couple) inside the womans pussy he would not be able to tell if she's faking or not.
Being soaked is not because of a orgasm...is just the natural lube, like a mans pre cum, when one gets aroused.
In my case, I get real wet, but when I cum is thru oral sex, with the right combination of a mans tongue and fingers.
After I started to play with my vibes, I found out how to stimulate my G-spot and I can squirt. Also, I can do it when doing cowgirl with a cock possessing the right bend to rub on me. And when this kind of orgasm starts, there is not end to it because the first triggers few more in a row.
I guess intensity depends on the lenght of the foreplay, in how a man is able to make you hotter by the minute.

popeye

10-20-2002, 10:30 PM

No offense Betty, but what works for you may not work for others... every woman is the same, yet very different... that is why I said I could not tell the woman came purely from her wetness, until she told me she did. She said they came in waves and was continuous....

Nuff said

Pop

ps--- I reread my post and yours and see we basically agree... sorry, I must be tired... good night...

Eugene

10-20-2002, 11:37 PM

You see I did not know that you were a woman, now I trust your opinion more...
Just kidding. Still not convincing.

Eugene

10-20-2002, 11:44 PM

You are probably closer to the point of convincing me. So, what you are saying that a man's fingers can feel the involuntary orgasmic convulsions. If you are sure that those convulsions could not be faked, (there are women who have an amazing muscle control down there, I think), then I probably would agree that through that a man can actually feel the female orgasm objectively and therefore know it (not guess) for sure.

Eugene

10-20-2002, 11:56 PM

Except for Betty of course. Noone doubts that females are orgasmic, and that men from time to time can guess correctly that their girl is having one. But there is still no sure way to be objectively sure... Except perhaps as Betty has said, when the man's fingers are inserted there...
As for the wetness factor, obviously some women get extreamly wet (every man had an experience like that) whether they are achieving an orgasm or just having a good time.
I really think this is a very interesting discussion. I wish we have more females giving their opinion. In this case women could be trusted more.

betty_snj

10-21-2002, 12:05 AM

well...the convulsions starts real strong and then fades away, with the same space of time between them. Is hard to fake that...even with strong muscle control.
Also, when you pull your finger...it should be covered with her cum... not much, creamy white sticky substance, no smells, with a hint of sweetness if you taste it.
One of my favorite positions in to lay down and play with my vibe when the guy is on his knees next to my head, fucking my mouth nice and deep...when I cum I usually ask if he ever saw what a womans cum looks like. Most say no, they never saw it. So, I pull my vibe out and show how it's covered with mine.

Eugene

10-21-2002, 12:15 AM

Come to think of it, I am not sure that I know exactly what a female cum looks like. Not mentioning the fact that your way of the sexual education sounds like a lot of fun. Hopefully you'll teach me one day as well. LOL
So far, seriously speaking, you are the only one who has an idea of how a man can really know and feel the female orgasm.

akshun

10-21-2002, 04:57 AM

Originally posted by Eugene
Well, I had a discussion with another fellow hobbyist Akshun on the subject of a guy's abbility to know exactly, if his girl had an orgasm. He was "pro" and I was "con". Eventually he agreed with me that there is no logical determination of it happening or not, and even if a guy is absolutely sure (and actually is right) it is still just an educated guess and in no way factual knowledge.
Another similar example (that we also discussed) was a man's ability to know if his child is really his. Unlike a woman, who certainly is the one to know this for sure, a man can only assume that. Or hope, anyway, LOL

You kinda paraphrased my argument, which is ok, but I want to expand on my point further.

You are right in saying that I conceeded that there is no way to be 100% certain as to what someone else perceives. But, I also stated that if the preponerance of evidence suggests a conclusion, then following Occam's razor principle, we should 'go with the simplest solution (the example I gave before was if you saw a baseball on the ground near a broken window, what would you conclude?).

If she says she has an orgasm and you find physiological responses that support that conclussion (that are controlled by the autonomic nervous system), then it is likely that she had an orgasm.

If you aren't willing to say 'yep, the majority of the evidence supports this conclusion about some phemenon', then how can can you, for example be 100% sure your mom loves you? For me, as I stated on the other thread, I'd rather not try to figure out the percentages. I'd rather just state with conviction that my mom loves me.

For those of you who state you can't ever know anything, get back to me with what percent certainty you think your mom loves you just because she says so. (that stated tongue in cheek, of course, because I'm sure your mom loves you; so don't go bothering her with actuary tables or trying to come up with a function with love as the independent variable that you intergrate over time. Just give her a call).

Later

BigMadM

10-21-2002, 04:58 AM

Wait a minute.
I thought all the great hobbyists on this board bring every single provider to orgasm every single time.
Thats what every man on this board and women at one time was telling me.

Providers faking orgasm?
Never happen according to all the great UG men.

Keeping it real is a very unpopular place on this board.

akshun

10-21-2002, 05:04 AM

Originally posted by Eugene
You are probably closer to the point of convincing me. So, what you are saying that a man's fingers can feel the involuntary orgasmic convulsions. If you are sure that those convulsions could not be faked, (there are women who have an amazing muscle control down there, I think), then I probably would agree that through that a man can actually feel the female orgasm objectively and therefore know it (not guess) for sure.

Gene, didn't I say almost the same exact thing in the other thread? During orgasm the pubocoxygeous (sp?) muscles contract. A finger in the sphincter works just as well.

akshun

10-21-2002, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by BigMadM
Wait a minute.
I thought all the great hobbyists on this board bring every single provider to orgasm every single time.
Thats what every man on this board and women at one time was telling me.

Providers faking orgasm?
Never happen according to all the great UG men.

Keeping it real is a very unpopular place on this board.

Blowing things way out of proportion. You state every man on this board says they can bring a provider to orgasm? Prove it.

Pull every post of every male on the board and show me. Otherwise this is just one statment made by a few guys which apparently gets under your skin (or something) and it sticks out in your mind and now you label everyone with this statement.

BigMadM

10-21-2002, 05:36 AM

akshun...ofcourse youre right..and youre right twice because I let it get to me once in a while.......some men just cant accept the fact that they are not the king of lovers and have to remember what and who they are dealing with.
And these are the ones that make the most noise when it comes to this subject.......I hate to generalize and thats what I just did.
I believe you understood how I felt and I just let my fingers type away and made a general attack on the great lovers on UG who bring every provider to orgasm. Everytime.(I openly admit Im not one of those great lovers. Ive come to realize that most providers enjoy my company because of my wit and money. And Im not that funny so I guess they let me keep coming back for visits for only one thing.)

trailrunner66

10-21-2002, 06:11 AM

One way to tell if a woman has an orgasm is when she is coming there is a involuntary reflex of the toes where they curl in a tight ball and that can't be faked. The only problem is that its kind of hard to see because you have to stop what you're doing and look.

akshun

10-21-2002, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by BigMadM
akshun...ofcourse youre right..and youre right twice because I let it get to me once in a while.......some men just cant accept the fact that they are not the king of lovers and have to remember what and who they are dealing with.
And these are the ones that make the most noise when it comes to this subject.......I hate to generalize and thats what I just did.
I believe you understood how I felt and I just let my fingers type away and made a general attack on the great lovers on UG who bring every provider to orgasm. Everytime.(I openly admit Im not one of those great lovers. Ive come to realize that most providers enjoy my company because of my wit and money. And Im not that funny so I guess they let me keep coming back for visits for only one thing.)

I hope i didn't come off as too much of a hard ass. I know what you meant.

Some of the things you hear on the board are (to be kind) hyperbole. Its just that some people are saying (and making it seem as if it is fact), that a guy can't tell if a woman has an orgasm. Sometimes you can and somtimes you can't (by the way, it can work in reverse: ie- sometimes a woman may be hard-pressed to tell if a man has had an orgasm if she looks for the wrong things).

For the record, I am not one of the great lovers as well.

Eugene

10-21-2002, 07:42 AM

First, alas, there is no logical 100% scientific proof that your mom isn't lying, when she says she loves you. Sorry to disappoint you.
Same unfortunately goes for your wife and children...
Second, about the vaginal orgasmic convulsions, I was trusting Betty much more, as she has a vagina, and you do not. (I assume this, but there is no logical way for me to know that for sure)
I am glad you are joining the discussion.

h. von bingen

10-21-2002, 07:49 AM

nope
uh uh
nulla
niente
nien
nay
nix
non

naysayer,
hvb

enuf study, enuf practice, all fakeable + adage: people believe what they want.

honey never with YOU,
hvb

akshun

10-21-2002, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by Eugene
First, alas, there is no logical 100% scientific proof that your mom isn't lying, when she says she loves you. Sorry to disappoint you.
Same unfortunately goes for your wife and children...
Second, about the vaginal orgasmic convulsions, I was trusting Betty much more, as she has a vagina, and you do not. (I assume this, but there is no logical way for me to know that for sure)
I am glad you are joining the discussion.

Umm.....that is EXCACTLY what I said. I can't prove my mom loves me. But given the evidence, I would whole heartedly say she does (can you say the same thing; ie when a freind says ' man your mom sure loves you' would you retort 'I think she does, but I can't prove that shes not just saying it, so I don't know. This was not meant as some grade school challenge although it could be taken that way (dont take that way)).

I'm gonna paste what I said here but it won't be bolded (not savvy enough to do that yet):
"You are right in saying that I conceeded that there is no way to be 100% certain as to what someone else perceives. But, I also stated that if the preponerance of evidence suggests a conclusion, then following Occam's razor principle, we should 'go with the simplest solution (the example I gave before was if you saw a baseball on the ground near a broken window, what would you conclude?). Snip...

If you aren't willing to say 'yep, the majority of the evidence supports this conclusion about some phemenon', then how can can you, for example be 100% sure your mom loves you? For me, as I stated on the other thread, I'd rather not try to figure out the percentages. I'd rather just state with conviction that my mom loves me."

BELIEVE me, you aren't shattering any of my world views.

As for the Betty stuff; I told you before, the equipment is different but in general the reactions are the same (same innervation, same response).

FWIW-no wife, no girlfriend, no kids. Just........unattractive.

LukeWarm

10-21-2002, 08:00 AM

About a year ago I stopped seeing a provider who I had visited many times. The reason: She kept faking orgasms (but did a killer bbbj!). Oh yes, the toes curled . . . the body quivered . . . the stomach muscles tensed . . . the moans flowed . . . etc. A great performance, but all fake.

I don't know if there is a tell-tale litmus test, but my best advice is (as soon as possible after the alleged orgasm) to let your hand somehow wander to her upper spine, just opposite the heart. If that spot is very warm and perhaps a little damp with sweat, then chances are the orgasm was genuine. (Perspiration is hard to fake.)

akshun

10-21-2002, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
nope
uh uh
nulla
niente
nien
nay
nix
non

naysayer,
hvb

enuf study, enuf practice, all fakeable + adage: people believe what they want.

honey never with YOU,
hvb

A big part of me doesn't want to respond to this, 'cause I'm not well read and the response I get may go over my head and leave me with my mouth open and drool coming out.

But.......again we have another case of someone stating an absolute.

Lets flip this. You can't prove a negative (you can't prove the Loch ness monster dosen't exist). So why not go to an ATF that you feel you know well ask her what she likes.
Do what she likes and tell her that you want her to have an orgasm, but no pressure if she doesn't. At the end, make your guess and see if she confirms it (doesn't have to be an ATF, any woman would do).

Eugene

10-21-2002, 08:12 AM

Having no wife, no girlfriend and no kids could be also interpreted as just being lucky. LOL
"A smoking gun" in the hands of a suspected murderer is still no proof, but if there is no better evidence usually is accepted "beyond a reasonable doubt".
So many things in life that we couldn't really know for sure, but we are accepting them "beyond a reasonable doubt". So I guess our moms do love us, LOL. Though, there is still no scientific proof.

akshun

10-21-2002, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by Eugene
Having no wife, no girlfriend and no kids could be also interpreted as just being lucky. LOL
"A smoking gun" in the hands of a suspected murderer is still no proof, but if there is no better evidence usually is accepted "beyond a reasonable doubt".
So many things in life that we couldn't really know for sure, but we are accepting them "beyond a reasonable doubt". So I guess our moms do love us, LOL. Though, there is still no scientific proof.

Exactly. We agree. (I would call me mom right now, but i know she will call me in a couple of hours, so I'll wait).

Eugene

10-21-2002, 08:24 AM

"all fakeable + adage: people believe what they want"
Che certo! I agree completely.

PS I am so glad that finally there is something of yours that I understand.

Flounder

10-21-2002, 09:16 AM

sometimes I can tell. It would be nice if they came, but it's not my job to make them cum, it's their job to make me cum.

vegasjim

10-21-2002, 10:59 AM

I also believe I can tell sometimes but I do believe they fake allot

MrAfternoon

10-21-2002, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Flounder
sometimes I can tell. It would be nice if they came, but it's not my job to make them cum, it's their job to make me cum.

I'm with you Flounder. If they cum, good for them. But I am going to fuck the way I want and cum when I want, and I am not going to wait for them. Which is why men with perfectly good wives and girlfriends see providers.

justme

10-21-2002, 11:35 AM

Isn't this thread inherently moot.

Scientific Proof?

Is that an intentional oxymeron?

(Seriously, I've been more convinced about some of my partner's orgasms than I am about classical Darwinism)

((Not that I'd be stupid enough to claim that I can tell all the time))

(((But hell, I've had providors not believe me when I told them I'd come (when I had) or that I hadn't (when I hadn't), so I guess being able to tell is a two way street)))

akshun

10-21-2002, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by justme

Scientific Proof?

Is that an intentional oxymeron?

(

Why?

justme

10-21-2002, 11:59 AM

Science can't 'prove' anything. Scientific experiments can fail to disprove a null hypothesis. Scientific Theories can attempt to model reality. But science itself is incapable of proof. And I suppose that's precisely why I find this thread so absurd.

justme

10-21-2002, 12:01 PM

OK, maybe I don't find the thread absurd, just its premise.

akshun

10-21-2002, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by justme
Science can't 'prove' anything. Scientific experiments can fail to disprove a null hypothesis. Scientific Theories can attempt to model reality. But science itself is incapable of proof. And I suppose that's precisely why I find this thread so absurd.

Sounds like semantics to me (which, and I want to stress this, is absolutely fine. I'm going to hve to ruminate on what you stated. you may very well be right).

I don't think anyone meant to burden the word 'proof' with such a precise meaning (if you are a linguist, I'm sure your getting upset right now at the laxity of word usage).

FWIW (ie nothing) I find it absurd when anyone makes a statement about what other people can and can't do; so if someone says its impossible to know if someone else ishaving orgasms or not, I'd like them to show me.

justme

10-21-2002, 12:23 PM

I am not a linguist. I am something far more obnoxious. I am a mathematician. (We guard this notion of 'proof' fairly carefully)

By the way, I'm pretty much agreeing with you. My contention is that it's absurd for genie to be asking for 'scientific proof' or the like. In all knowledge there is a little doubt, so I'm not so sure exactly how the premise of this thread could be resolved.

akshun

10-21-2002, 12:27 PM

Ahh. It makes sense now

I will be staying very far away from you.

I had a hell of a hard time in 'Intro to a complex variable', and I concede as of right now.

BigMadM

10-21-2002, 12:41 PM

well...another post on this thread by me....today....this morning...I spent 3 hours with Heidi....and I was determined to bring her to orgasm just to see if I had any clue as to whether or not she would fake it.
I was caught up in this thread yesterday and knew Id want to see if Heidi claims orgasm and If I had any clue.
So at the beginning of the session, I simply asked her what on earth could I do to get her to orgasm.
She told me she loves oral, but its unlikely she'll come that way.
She then told me that getting it from the rear, doggie, gets her off.
So after some 69, and alot of cowgirl(gotta look at her face for a while, what a fucking gorgeous site on top of me), I told her lets go for an orgasm.
She put her feet on the ground, not doggie style on the bed with knees bent...I loved this view...Heidis perfect ass, yes, it is perfect, staring at me in the face with her bent all the way over.
So I began and I kept going. I saw her grabbing the sheets so hard her knuckles were bright white and looked like she might rip the sheet in two. She told me shes getting close....her body language was changing....she was moaning softly and moving rythmatically(I wonder if this is a word) with me. She said again, keep going....almost there.........How the fuck does she expect me to keep it going with her perfect ass staring me in the face.....I came....i kept fucking hard for 10 more minutes...it was painful....I eventually had to just stop.
I asked her a few minutes later and she told me I shouldnt have stopped, she was almost there...Im sorry Heidi.....Its your fault you just turn me on something awful.
Ill try again this Sunday and we will have help.
Flounder is right though: its the providers job to make sure Im happy.

occasionalhobbyist

10-21-2002, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by justme
I am not a linguist. I am something far more obnoxious. I am a mathematician. (We guard this notion of 'proof' fairly carefully)

Damned Bertrand Russell!

akshun

10-21-2002, 01:12 PM

BMM, do you think Hedi would be honest enough to tell you if she did (that is the crux of the problem; if she suspects that it would upset you if you tried and she didn't, she might say what you want to hear, but if you've expressed your feelings to her that her job is to satisfy you, then maybe she won't feel like she's in jeapordy of losing a client)?

It sounds to me like you were doing the right things and she agreed that you were close.

Rest up and try again. If she orgaams while you are still inserted (and assuming you can concentrate) see if her vaginal muscles contract.

occasionalhobbyist

10-21-2002, 01:16 PM

Akshun:

What justme is refering to is the fact that, for all of the science we've developed over the centuries, there's a lot we don't know. I don't want to speak for a true mathematician, but Bertrand Russell, in his Principia Mathematica, set out to prove a century ago that mathematics was derived from logical "axioms" (i.e., knowable truths). And he wound up proving the opposite.

Let me use another example: a quantum physicist name Heisenberg in the 1920s outlined what is called the "Uncertainty Prinicple." Essentially, he stated that as we got down to the molecular level, our instruments were incapable of calculating the position and rate of movement of any object. So, for example, if we knew where an electron was, we could not know how fast it was moving. The Uncertainty Principle still stands today.

Finally, some people -- mostly elementary particle physicists, from what I can gather -- believe that the only reason for theory is to use those theories to predict the future. Yet, to be blunt about it, we can't.

We can't predict the stock market, or GDP, or trade flows, or lots of other things.

So, it's not just semantics. It's the Great Big Secret. We can model situations and calculate probabilities, but like Enron's balance sheet, we can't really know what's real or what isn't until it happens.

occasionalhobbyist

10-21-2002, 01:17 PM

Extending the logic to the topic of this thread:

No, a guy can't really tell. But, if it's my dime, who really cares?

Eugene

10-21-2002, 01:23 PM

So science can't prove anything? I am glad all those scientists finally will see the light and stop wasting their effort. Finally there is a self proclaimed genius on this whore site who can put them straight... And a "scientific proof", you've never seen those two words before together? An oximoron? By the way, it's OXYMORON AND NOT OXYMERON, your mathematical highness misspelled it.
Here, let me help you, it's should be easy to remember:
OXY MORON - like you, and a pretentious one also...

akshun

10-21-2002, 01:28 PM

'Every time I think I'm ou, they keep sucking me back in'

Boy, o, boy would I like to meet you guys and chew the fat.

I THINK JM was NOT talking about the range (depth) of our knowledge, but rather if we could prove what we claim to know (JM can explain is point much better than I and let me know if I'm wrong or not).

You're right that there is a lot we don't know (I limit my discussion to natural phenonmenon- namely, physics 'cause I majored in that in college), and its dumb to think we do. Just ask Lord Kelvin.

Bringing up the philosophy that follows from quantum mechanics goes way beyond what i know; so I'll stick with H bars and Laplacians.

See Eugene, I told you, there are people here way smarter than me and I'd get my brain handed to me.

benthere69

10-21-2002, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by occasionalhobbyist
No, a guy can't really tell. But, if it's my dime, who really cares?

This is the only thing in this whole damn thread that makes sense and really matters

occasionalhobbyist

10-21-2002, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by Eugene
So science can't prove anything? I am glad all those scientists finally will see the light and stop wasting their effort. Finally there is a self proclaimed genius on this whore sight who can put them straight... And a "scientific proof", you've never seen those two words before together? An oximoron? By the way, it's OXYMORON AND NOT OXYMERON, your mathematical highness misspeled it.
Here, let me help you, it's should be easy to remember:
OXY MORON - like you, and a pretentious one also...

Eugene: Ease up, lad. JM didn't claim to be a genius. He's also a longtime, thoughtful contributor to this board. There's nothing wrong with wide-ranging interests. Who knows, maybe JM can give us a proof for the trajectory of one of betty's bbbjtcnqns's, eh?

PS--when criticizing people's vocab skills, use spell-check. You spelled "misspelled" incorrectly. People in glass houses...

Eugene

10-21-2002, 01:38 PM

May I remind you all the "great mind" condescending geniuses that you are on the WHORE SITE! Can you be more absurd, showing off your "intellect" here?

occasionalhobbyist

10-21-2002, 01:40 PM

It's a whore site!

Eugene

10-21-2002, 01:48 PM

Glad you noticed, so it's a whore site! The key word here is still WHORE. And with your permission, I'll post the way I think necessary!

justme

10-21-2002, 01:52 PM

akshun - Hey, don't avoid me. I promise not to make any math jokes.

complex analysis - Umm... as long as you're holomorphic you're golden, right?

(I hated complex analysis, but then I'm not a fan of the real variety, either)

OH - I think what Russel (and don't forget Whitehead) did was to show beyond all doubt that mathematicians can be a pretty humorless*, dull bunch of people.

It was Goedel who showed that aside from being humorless and dull, that Whitehead and Russel also were capable of wasting a tremendous amount of time.

And while your point about certain uncertainty is well taken, I was making a much more simple point than that. Namely, I was pointing out that scientists are modeling and attempting to predict reality, they are not (or at least they shouldn't be) searching for some 'truth' in the Godlike sense of the word. See Newton and his 'truth' about gravity.

* - Of course Russel was known to have his funny moments. I believe it was Russel who once, while lecturing to a group of undergraduates on the nature of false premises, made the claim that he could prove anything if he were allowed to assume 1 + 1 = 1. When some smartass in the audience challenged him to show that he was the pope he replied (without missing a beat), 'I am one, the pope is one, the pope and I are one.'

Eugene -

I never claimed that scientists were wasting their time. In all honesty, I quite enjoy many of the innovations that scientific theory have made possible. I am sorry if you're own intellect prevents you from understanding the rather simple point I was trying to make. Perhaps you can get akshun or OH to explain it to you.

Yes, I have seen the term 'scientific proof,' before, and most of the times it was used incorrectly as it was in your case. More often than not, what these people meant was 'scientific evidence'. You can thank me for editing your posts on your own time, no rush.

As to my spelling skills, as I've pointed out to HvB, they are lacking and I'm aware of that. However, thank you for pointing out how 'oxymoron' should be spelled.

Finally, I am a self-proclaimed high genius (again this is an ironic proclomation). If you understood the meaning of either term, you'd know this precluded me from being a moron of any variety.

Pretentiously yours,

justme

occasionalhobbyist

10-21-2002, 01:53 PM

Permission granted.

Hey, aren't you talking about Russian satirists in another thread? Why are you making a big deal about math and science talk? I've never read a Russian satirist. Should I be offended that you come onto this whore site and throw it in my face?

Just because we like fucking women for money doesn't mean we're stupid. (Awaiting slinky comment...)

BigMadM

10-21-2002, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by occasionalhobbyist
Extending the logic to the topic of this thread:

No, a guy can't really tell. But, if it's my dime, who really cares?

Thankyou OH, this is how a true hobbyist should really feel.

I enjoyed the field work today.

I was unsuccesful in my effort, but at least I had a great time.

JackT

10-21-2002, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by justme
Finally, I am a self-proclaimed high genius (again this is an ironic proclomation). If you understood the meaning of either term, you'd know this precluded me from being a moron of any variety.

EITHER term?? I'm quite sure there are plenty of morons who understand quite well the meaning of "high".... (as a kite).....

Eugene

10-21-2002, 03:36 PM

I am flattered that you seem to follow my posts. The association with paying for sex equals being stupid, came to your mind and not mine.

Eugene

10-21-2002, 03:48 PM

It's not easy to understand you especially things like:
"you're own intellect..."
As for being a pretetious moron, you still are, in spite of being a genius of the whore site and a math school teacher, who is so desperate for any forum to show off. The fact that you have a dictionary at home doesn't qualify you as an intellectual, except in your own fantasy.
You probably have to be a genius to progress to Russell from a discussion of female cum.
It's Russell not Russel.

justlooking

10-21-2002, 03:50 PM

No offense, but you're an idiot.

justme

10-21-2002, 03:51 PM

JactT - Well that's the way I always took it.

justlooking

10-21-2002, 03:52 PM

Or maybe you're not an idiot. Maybe you're just a non-idiot who's so frustrated with his life that he channels all his dissatisfactions and disappointments into needless hostility.

Eugene

10-21-2002, 04:02 PM

I certainly do not have any doubts about you. You are a pretetious moron like your friend justme.
You are probably the same helpless a... hole of guy, posting under different handles.

justlooking

10-21-2002, 04:14 PM

You may be right about the pretentious moron, but you're wrong about the other part (at least on individual boards).

Eugene

10-21-2002, 04:17 PM

I am glad that you have admitted being a pretentious moron, now it's friend's turn.

justlooking

10-21-2002, 04:20 PM

FUCK YOU, ASSWIPE

justlooking

10-21-2002, 04:33 PM

(Look, Eugene. When someone says something self-depracating to try to diffuse an argument with you, it's simply bad manners to jump on it as an admission. Anybody but a dickhead knows that. But your posts have shown you to be a belligerent arrogant shit who is quick to take offense but who doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks he does. Every time you have posted about a subject that I know about, you have been almost completely wrong. I think most knowledgable readers of the non-spa portions of this board have come to the same conclusion about you. But you're too annoying -- and frankly, too insignificant -- to bother with. Anyway, unlike you, most of us aren't rude enough to insult people gratuitously. You, on the other hand, seem to do it as a hobby. Great. Big fucking man.)

Eugene

10-21-2002, 04:33 PM

Slinky will delete it later anyway, but same to you and your friend,
who is probably doing it to you instead of hobbying.

justlooking

10-21-2002, 04:36 PM

Please be sure you don't miss the follow-up post posted simultaneously with yours.

Eugene

10-21-2002, 04:38 PM

I think that you are doing just fine...
I certainly don't give a f... of what you think or do, or post.
You can drop dead for all I care.
My suggestion of you being f.... really got to you. LOL
Means it's true!

justlooking

10-21-2002, 04:41 PM

You guys who are so insecure in your sexuality that you think an imputation of homosexuality is an insult really crack me up.

Pathetic.

petehanse

10-21-2002, 04:54 PM

How does a scientist make a Hormone?..............................He doesn't Pay her! ( WHORE-MOAN) This one is better verbalized!

Eugene

10-21-2002, 04:56 PM

justlooking. You were insulted! But relax there is no stigma in taking it up your a... So just carry on, loser.
Don't be ashamed, even if you come up with another handle like
"just a homo", it's all right.

justme

10-21-2002, 04:56 PM

Eugene - Thanks again for pointing out my you're/your mistake as well as my spelling of old Berty's last name.

Of course I'm sure you realize that simple grammar oversights and spelling mistakes have never been enough to have someone categorized as 'moron'.

But this whole argument is juvenile. Let's get back to the initial point I was trying to make.

Namely, this thread was started because you wanted to pursue the question first stated in a different thread as to whether or not it is possible for a man to tell if a woman has achieved orgasm. In that original thread, akshun told you that as a doctor he felt that his expertise on physiological phenomena provided him with the skills necessary to tell. You told him that even with these skills he could never be 100% sure. He conceded that this was true. My point was that I agree that this is true, but that it is true in a trivial way. Namely, there is no such thing as 100% certainty in any knowledge.

Please show me how that is not a valid point, or concede that I am right.

sean960

10-21-2002, 04:57 PM

How the fuck does she expect me to keep it going with her perfect ass staring me in the face

Above quoted from BMM about Heidi,
Truer words were never spoken my friend !

Eugene

10-21-2002, 04:58 PM

It's almost as funny as helpless justlooking trying to say something clever.

BigMadM

10-21-2002, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by petehanse
How does a scientist make a Hormone?..............................He doesn't Pay her! ( WHORE-MOAN) This one is better verbalized!

Wrong punchline, correct punchline.

How does a scientist make a hormone? He kicks her in her shin.

Eugene

10-21-2002, 05:08 PM

What happened? I thought, you switched my postings off.
Anyway I do not want to discuss anything with an a... hole like you. Discuss it with your boyfriend while you do each other...

justme

10-21-2002, 05:22 PM

Well good, I suppose I'm done (for now) then.

jp1064

10-21-2002, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by BigMadM
I asked her a few minutes later and she told me I shouldnt have stopped, she was almost there...
Ill try again this Sunday and we will have help.
BMM, someone joining you for a threesome?

betty_snj

10-21-2002, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by LukeWarm

I don't know if there is a tell-tale litmus test, but my best advice is (as soon as possible after the alleged orgasm) to let your hand somehow wander to her upper spine, just opposite the heart. If that spot is very warm and perhaps a little damp with sweat, then chances are the orgasm was genuine. (Perspiration is hard to fake.)

I guess it doesn't apply to anyone because I do not perspire or curl my toes when I'm having an orgasm.

Also, based on my own body, being a highly sexual woman as I am, I hardly believe providers (or any woman) can cum as many times they proclaim or clients wish they did.

I don't fake with a client. What for? Before I start my session, I like to talk about what he wants to do to me or be done to him. If he really wants to bring me to an orgasm, then he needs to work on me. I'm easily aroused, I get very wet but I don't have many clitorial orgasms (the ones your vaginal muscles strongly contracts) in one session. Maybe one or two, because I need the right combination of tongue and fingers to get me off.

The only multiple orgasms I can have is thru the G-Spot stimulation, and is a messy thing for some guys. When I first discovered I could cum this way, I used to pour over guys faces, hands and cocks...most were surprised, some loved it but also some didn't liked the "puddle" sensation. So, I've learned how to control and just have it when a guy really wants to experience it.
I think there is a good percentage of women who never experienced an orgasm, but she fakes it so her partner (hubby or bf) do not feel inadequated.
Women are different than men, we need different ways of stimulation to achieve an orgasm.

Kimmie

10-21-2002, 06:35 PM

I had no idea Jl could be so loud and curse so much.

Always the quiet ones.. Remind me not to piss him off!

Dammit now my name is back in the coliseum! :mad:

justme

10-22-2002, 08:31 AM

You mean you missed the 'fucking pussyshits' post in the Rudy thread? Classic.

justlooking

10-22-2002, 09:23 AM

Actually it was "lame pussyshits". "Fucking pussyshits" would have been crude.

justme

10-22-2002, 09:29 AM

Of course. Please accept my sincerest apology for misquoting you.

BigMadM

10-22-2002, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by jp1064
BMM, someone joining you for a threesome?

Im like a little boy getting ready to go on his first trip to disney.
What a day it will be for me.....Me..Heidi...and lexi of florida....doesnt get any better than that....for me at least...anytime..anywhere..

Flounder

10-22-2002, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by BigMadM

Im like a little boy getting ready to go on his first trip to disney.
What a day it will be for me.....Me..Heidi...and lexi of florida....doesnt get any better than that....for me at least...anytime..anywhere..

When are you going?

littleguy

10-22-2002, 06:49 PM

Let's see now Eugene.

You've attacked or insulted at least 3 respected posters with much more credibility around this sort of place than you (apparently) will ever have. (occasionalhobbyist, jl, and jm)

It "sounds" very much like you're about 17, maybe 18, years old. Insinuating/calling somebody you know nothing about a "homo".

Really now. Next thing you know you'll be sticking your tongue and and going "Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah".

Grow up and move on.....

littleguy

10-22-2002, 06:51 PM

BMM,

Shit man, where do you get all that cash ?

Heidi for 3 hours, Lexi, both at once ???

Are you really ARod ? :) (Don't mind me, I'm just fucking envious (Heidi IS something else, isn't she ?)

sean960

10-22-2002, 08:27 PM

There is no way I'm gonna get any sleep tonight thinking about
heidi & lexi rolling around together.BMM dont tell me when your
doing this,you'll have me peeping into every hotel room window on LI !

jseah

10-22-2002, 08:29 PM

hell, why bother???? just peek into the windows of the kmi. you will either find BMM or swope there....LOL

jp1064

10-22-2002, 10:01 PM

WARNING, sound!

World Wide Orgasms (http://civis.wigner.bme.hu/020913interorgasm/)

BigMadM

10-23-2002, 11:08 AM

Hey...I havent been to the KMI in over a week....I wonder if they miss me?
Littleguy....sometimes...there are things more impt than money...not looking to lecture to you ofcourse, but my state of well being is very important.
(and just for the record...and bragging......Heidi is only for a few hours....Lexi is with me for the entire day. Cant bring the girl up from Florida and expect me to let her go after 3 hours.)
I make a habit out of seeing Heidi every week. And yes, she is something else and I still think she has the best ass Ive ever had the pleasure of licking, sucking, kissing, biting...fondling....slobbering over......
If Lexi ever decides to move back to Long Island, shit, I dont even want to think about it. Id have to take a second job.

Flounder

10-23-2002, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by BigMadM

(and just for the record...and bragging......Heidi is only for a few hours....Lexi is with me for the entire day. Cant bring the girl up from Florida and expect me to let her go after 3 hours.)
I make a habit out of seeing Heidi every week. And yes, she is something else and I still think she has the best ass Ive ever had the pleasure of licking, sucking, kissing, biting...fondling....slobbering over......
If Lexi ever decides to move back to Long Island, shit, I dont even want to think about it. Id have to take a second job.

How long will Lexi be here?

pjorourke

10-24-2002, 06:59 AM

How does one contact Lexi? Her website is down.

littleguy

10-25-2002, 06:21 PM

BMM,

Jesus, all that time and you spend it with just these 2 ladies ? (grin)

Take a look at this one. Miamia Companions usually imports some pretty good stuff (and they're pretty reliable too)

http://www.eros-ny.com/files/mi-companions1-amanda1.htm

Thorn

10-25-2002, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
FUCK YOU, ASSWIPE

Now THAT was a first.

Thorn

10-25-2002, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by Eugene
I think that you are doing just fine...
I certainly don't give a f... of what you think or do, or post.
You can drop dead for all I care.
My suggestion of you being f.... really got to you. LOL
Means it's true!

Eu,

P is one of the most respected posters across multiple boards.

It isn't because it is apparent that he is intelligent, though it is obvious he is.

It isn't for his apparent straight shooting nature, even though he possesses same.

It isn't even because he has always maintained a constant demeanor and charactor, not zig-zagging all over the place like some.

It IS because he has always attempted, most would say successfully, to be respectful and tolerant of other people and their thoughts.

So, for you to itch him to the point where he felt he needed to scratch is quite an accomplishment.

Now, feel free to think that was a compliment. Even though it wasn't.

callingout

10-26-2002, 12:53 PM

First time on a board so bear with me ...yes it is possible to fake the spasms down there if you practice alot and have good control...you can even space them out just right so they start out strong and get a little less vise like as you "come down"....it's easier to do if I'm on top but it's possible no matter what position I'm in.... One really cool thing is that sometimes if I start out doing this for him it'll turn into the real thing...especially if the guy pumps harder or bites my nipples a little....also...toes curling? you've got to be kidding? not!

justlooking

10-26-2002, 01:00 PM

A prostitute's instructions on How To Fake An Orgasm has to be one of the greatest maiden posts (you should excuse the expression) I've ever seen.

callingout

10-26-2002, 01:08 PM

thank you for the compliment...but I'm sure it never happens in real life...I mostly only use those particular skills when I masturbate... when I'm with a man it's always for real...of course!

justlooking

10-26-2002, 01:16 PM

Gotcha.

I often fake orgasms when I masturbate, too, since that's the one person in the world whose sexual abilities I least want to insult.

Wwanderer

10-27-2002, 08:05 AM

Just during or moments after orgasm many women, and a few men I have been told, display a bright red flush (or is it blush) on their upper chest, between about their neckline and their nipples. It is, of course, most obvious on fair skin. It usually fades within a minute or two, maybe less. Sometimes somewhat similar flushes are seen elsewhere, such as in the crotch or inner thighs. Not all women have this "symptom", and even those that do may not always have it.

Nevertheless, I suspect it must be quite hard to fake (maybe yogi masters could do it), so if you see a suddenly red chest, you can be pretty sure it is the real thing.

-Ww

h. von bingen

10-30-2002, 06:02 AM

receive.

never ever let false bravado and a good (read: expensive) education silence u. (or read: the idiot by dostoyevsky.) thanks for responding.

never ever (as one of my best friends 2.75 years old always says),
hvb

p.s. jl i can't believe i missed u being a MAN. way 2 go pretension boy. (i like it . . . [word] or veritas as they say at my alma mater).

who knew?
hvb

ww:

i've heard about his blush thing, but my eyes are usually closed (and rolled back in my head), ergo i have never witnessed it.

2 is better than 1,
hvb

calling:

thanks for pointing out the importance of nipple biting. but the right moment is hard thing to teach, yes?

ouch!
hvb

Wwanderer

10-31-2002, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen

1 - or veritas as they say at my alma mater).

2 - heard about his blush thing, but my eyes are usually closed (and rolled back in my head), ergo i have never witnessed it.

3 - thanks for pointing out the importance of nipple biting. but the right moment is hard thing to teach, yes?

1 - One of the most insightful things I learned there: "Harvard is the country's best university and the one which most overestimates how good it is."

2 - Undisciplined amateur! If you have difficulty maintaining experimental protocols, consider having some objective witness watch or, better yet, tape the proceedings.

3 - When an early girlfriend tried explaining this to a drunken Ww, I thought it meant that women were a bit like bees which leave their barbed stinger in the target and thus can only strike once. She was later very careful and forceful in her explanation of the importance of restrained passion. Since then I have been reluctant to experiment with the envelope of this particular stimulation.

-Ww