Another bleak Monday at Epsiodes

[Slinky Bender]

yesterday there were 5 as usual. ?Saphira? with a new curly hairdo, who, while she has a nice body, I just am not a huge fan of. Helen, who is short, with short brown hair, is a little bit "dumpy" and IMHO nothing special to look at. ?Sophia ? who looked reasonably young, with slender figure, but could not possbily have looked less interested in being there. A new, dark skinned, somewhat stocky girl, and the one I went with, who's name escapes my 24hrs later ( black, past the shoulders hair, sort of sicillian looking). She's a little older, but at least she gave be a 5 minute massage before hand.

I've noticed a lot of mid-week turnover here lately, so who knows what later in the week will bring.

[Slinky Bender]

Hoping that the recent MO of a lot of midweek changes would continue, i wnt to Episodes today. Unfortunately, only one turnover. The "new, dark skinned, somewhat stocky girl" had been replaced by Felicia ( gold toothed, fried blond, good service ).

[Ozzy]

hellooooo!

[pinga]

went there fri. and found Pamela ,a young Mexican to be quite friendly and service oriented. She claims to have been working at Episodes over the last 4 months, but I don't recall ever seeing her before.

[Slinky Bender]

There has been a Pamela there. Wha tdid she look like ?( was this last Firday you're talking about ? ).

[Ozzy]

felicia bailed me out again tonite.

[Slinky Bender]

HEY !!!!!! You bailed on me becaue you were supposed to be going to AC !!!!!!!!! We could have gone to a great party, and you needed to be bailed out by Felicia ???????? .......PL

[Ozzy]

i told you who i was supposed to meet (someone visiting town this week).....

well i didn't think i'd get to see her since i never heard back and made back up plans for AC. but i talked to her yesterday afternoon(thanks to someone here giving me her cell#) and confirmed for last night. so i blow off AC till next week and when i get to her hotel, she's not there! i call her cell and her room....nothing.

so after banging back a few in the lobby bar for an hour or so and trying again, i decided to call one of my trusty last minute options......turns out ones out of town and the others sleeping.... so it's off to episodes and felicia.


btw she said that the owner of the 179 st place went back to his country and it's not there anymore. she did give me her cell phone # and said she has friends who do outcall and that *she'd* do incall at her place for *ME*(see, i am lovable) late at night... only $100/hr since she doesn't have to do any split with the house.

shit at those rates i'll take her and two of her friends for a week. i forgot to ask if i could post her# so i'll give her a call or ask her next time i see her (next weekend).

[Edited by Ozzy on 04-28-2001 at 10:22 AM]

[pinga]

sorry, I was there thurs. and that was 2 days ago. She is slim,5-3, long black wavy hair, 110lbs. , b-cup breasts,a little of the Penelope Cruz look.

[Ozzy]

felicia said that two girls left mid week and she was called to replace them.

[frog]

wow, Penelope Cruz works at Episodes!!

[Ozzy]

bwwwwwwwwaaaaaahhhhhh!

[TuckernotSucker]

So, Good buddies, this is the first I am hearing of Episodes. Would you clue me in please. Address, phone # any special hours? Any contact info. Do I need a reccomendation? Rates? Tipping? Where have I been?

[Eye Won]

Well, its almost impossible to get in now unless they know you.....Im going next week so if you want we could meet up and I'll get you in......Let me know..
Imperialone..........Out

[Ozzy]

all good ones this week. my felicia was there so i had to wait for her. passed one at least 4 good ones.

the last three weeks felicia only worked the night i came in.............hmmmmmm.

[TuckernotSucker]

Thanks for the offer. I wont be able to get into the city for the next two weeks but I'll contact you when I can. Your a pal.

[Eye Won]

Just drop me a line when you'll be able to go...My schedule is pretty flexible so it wont be a problem....
Imperialone.....Out

[bea]

I read some past discussions on JAG that it was possible to get in to the old location if you looked prepared and said you had been buzzed up before by "the other woman" when you arrived.

Given that this location is infinitely more convenient to my East Side location, is that still the case?

[Eye Won]

Well, I'm sorry to say it's not that easy to get in anymore. The last couple of times I was there I saw then turn people away that they didn't recognize. They are being extra careful at the new location.........
Imperial One...............Out...........

Member of the C.F.M.O.A.
Certified Cheap Mutherfuckers Of America

[Eye Won]

Holy Crap, I just realized I got upgraded to Silver.... When did this happan.............???????
Imperialone.........Out
C.F.M.O.A.

[bea]

Well that's disappointing. With the market slowdown, I'm not as frantically busy all day. What's the point of sneaking out of work early if you can't do something fun?

[JohnJ]

Does Episodes have a web ? Would be nice to see what the gals look like... then again... i guess it wouldn't be so cheap if they had to maintain website.

If anyone is going very soon... ummm tonight mebee???

Would they mind a tag a long...???

Would be happy to email my number.

John

[Edited by johnj on 05-11-2001 at 07:43 PM]

[frog]

Originally posted by JohnJ
Does Episodes have a web ?

bwahwahwhhahah!!

[Slinky Bender]

Not a great week this week ( as opposed to last week ). The best of the five was Graciella, 5'8", Argentinian, late 30's, very tanned skin, a very slight gut, face looks like she's spent too much time in the sun during her youth. Not quite shoulder length hair, slightly bleached. Pleasant to be with, but not exceptional service. Kept top on. Not as shaved as most others.

The rest I didn't really like. One had cottage cheese thunder thighs. Another has been there a bunch ( looks a slight bit like Denise Richards ), but I was with her a while back at SuperLung and she was a cold fish ( in fact, while I was waiting there, an Asian fellow walked in and after a little bit, said to the three who were sitting there "Anyone is fine". Her and the next one I'll described just looked the other way ! Yeah, they want to be there !!! ). The next one had "black" features, but was light skinned, almost to the point that she looked like she had some hint of Albinism ( is that a word ? ). Not great face, body or attitude. The last one has been there a bunch. She's VERY short ( 4'10" ? ), and very Anglo looking, with shoulder length blondish hair. Her service isn't too terrible, but she almost seems as if you are hurting her when you fuck, which bothered me a bit ( i.e. she grimaces, winces, etc. ).

When I got there, only Kelly was at the front desk. On the way out, Renee was there, too. I think Denise is in Texas this week.

[un4given]

well since they dont take new members, all I can do is drool at the reviews...

[nychojin]

...it kinda sucks, doesn't it?

[EarlyRiser]

Any chance imperialone will be scheduling another fieldtrip to Episodes?? The last time he scheduled one I couldnt be in town, but would love to be introduced to the place.

ER

[generousguy]

take me, take me... will gladly meet you for fun excursion..I am in manhattan w/flexible schedule, went to episodes about a year ago ( I think mid-town location - remember $60!) and wouldlove a reintroduction as many providers are going to 350 - 400...crazy, need a ez in cheap one evry now and again... email me! thx.

[Monk]

I've never been to Episodes, partially because it always seemed a bit sleezy, bottom of the barrel. Why is this? In Europe, there are tons of clubs like Episodes -- in places like Amsterdam and in Germany they are almost as common as brothels. And I've read about some wild ones in Paris, although I've also heard that you need to know people to get access to them.

I bet someone could make a fortune by opening up a classy version of Episodes here in the city.

[Slinky Bender]

I think one reason for it has to do with attitudes towards sex and prostitution here in the US. In certain other places, there is not the same level of social stigma attached to it. you couldn't staff such a place with "local talent" ( just like Epsiodes isn't ).

However another reason is the investment necessary in the current climate. It takes too much captial to start up a "classy" place, and if you fear that it will be ( or might be ) shut down before too long, it just doen't make sense to spend a lot of money on "physucal plant", which just might get flushed dwon the toilet.

Those two things said, I'll cop to not really understanding the question. You say "they are almost as common as brothels". I'm not sure what you mean by this. Isn't Episodes a brothel ?

[Justin Thyme]

I thought he was talking about Amsterdam in specific. I was there recently, and prostitution is WAY legal and out in the open. The "window" girls are very visible and available in the red light district, sitting just behind a glass door and illuminated with a bright light! The sessions are 15 minutes long for about $42 US, which of course is pretty incredible for FS.

I read about the higher-class brothels, where you stay for a while and have drinks, a choice of girls, etc., but I didn't go to any of 'em.

I would definitely like to go to Episodes, since it sounds a helluva like Amsterdam! Maybe one day there'll be some type of "ASSCon" there so that the newbies will have a chance to get in.

[Eye Won]

As far as episodes being alot like Amsterdam....... I have one thing to say,,,,,, well maybe 4 words to say..
I don't think so.......

[Ozzy]

take some of the better girls in nyc.....put them in a window and let tham charge by the quarter hour instead of the hour (aprox 50-100 US$) and you have amsterdam.


comparing episodes to amterdam window girls.....I1 said ir right...i don't think so.

[deepthought]

Newbie member here,... This Episodes sounds kind of like the last Studio 90. There were even a couple of old Harmoney girls there before '90 got busted.

Is this basically the same type of club?

d

[Slinky Bender]

No, it's not an ostensible "lap dance" place where you can get "extras" from some/most girls. It's a cheap brothel - $30 for 15 minutes with everything included ( but a minimum $10 tip expected ). Mush closer to the "Spanish Cheapie Places" of Jackson Heights than S90/Harmony.

[generousguy]

what is the phone girls name at episode..any tips on getting in would help, are they still in midtown? thrid floor walk-up if I remember, any sharing of info would be appreciated.

[Slinky Bender]

"Denise" and "you're one place behind".

[generousguy]

thx, just got back in town after a lengthy overseas business assignment, what is the current locale/address? Is it still the same atmosphere, kinda like a trip to tijuana or the old (church street) harmony downstairs...really miss that scene every once in a while...nostalgia... any info appreciated.

[Slinky Bender]

Just call them ( same number as always ). If the recognise you, they will give you the info and you will get in. If not...............

[jgd]

Same scene, I refer to it as "assebly line sex". I do enjoy it though from time to time.

[NYCBoy]

Never been. If I am in the 32nd street area tonite at say 330am and think that I see people going into where I think Episodes is, are they likely to bring me in with them, ala "members only" strip clubs, if I ask? Or will they just think that I am LE and tell me to screw off? And are they even open that late?

[jgd]

I believe they close at 2:00am.

[Ozzy]

just walk in like you own the place.....


if they say anything then tell them you were there when they were on w36st off of 8th av.

[EarlyRiser]

Wiill imperialone be leading another field trip??

[Rufus Moses]

I am coming back from the dead to say the following:

(1) When you vouch for somebody, whether it is at a brothel or a loan office, you are giving your word. That should mean something. It should be a matter of honor to only vouch for those you actually know are who they say they are. Giving your word that someone is OK when you don't know them from Adam just isn't right. Doing so for $40 is selling out your own honor cheap.

(2) Underground places like Episodes should not be spoken about freely on a board that is this public. It is not a question of keeping the info away from the cops...they likely know where more of these places are than any of us. Being "discovered" is not what gets places busted.

They get busted when they attract attention. When they become notorious. When they stop being underground. When they are rubbed in the face of cops because far too many people know about them.

An open board (and UtopiaGuide couldn't be any more open) has its place. But the more open a board is the less underground info should be posted to it. If Episode becomes notorious, instead of operating quietly behind the scenes, it *will* be closed down.

If this seems like a paradox, well maybe it is. If you like an underground place, it's perfectly fine to find a way to tell your close friends about it. But don't shout about it to the world and provide access for complete strangers.

.

[Edited by Rufus Moses on 06-23-2001 at 05:13 PM]

[Eye Won]

Look who it is Rufus Moses....... The guy who told me he don't post on Ug... Just TBG and another board. You sure do have alot to say and I will assume that this is directed at me. As far as Episodes being underground, I don't think so....everyone knows about it. I have 3 relatives who work for NYPD and they know about it.

As far as selling my honor for $40.00, get a grip... if you had any idea what you were talking about, you would know that the only guys I have taken are guys that I have met through our UG get togethers..and that was the second time we got together.. I just wish for once that someone would get their facts straight before posting something like this.... Selling my honor,,,,give me a fucking break..... do me a favor go back into lurk mode...... I don't need to be insulted by someone who doesn't know me.

Imperialone....OUT!!!!!!!!!

[Tankcommander]

and that includes recon on both new members as well as providers.

It is true that the cops already know about Episodes. I've seen a few guys from Midtown South there...LOL

In any case, Imp knows what he's doing, and I know that he will cut a f*cking throat in a hearbeat if someone he vouches for, turns out to be something he ain't.

[Rufus Moses]

I posted it twice because there were 2 major discussions of Episode going on. I'd like to see those stop. I think there are good reasons why they should. That is what my posts are about.

I1, if I wanted to send you a message, I wouldn't post it here twice. I would send you a single e-mail. geeze...

So just to complete the picture here is my response from the other thread. But I hope the merits of this concern can be considered. The short version...the cops already know about Episode, but broad public internet discussion may well goad them into action. It has already happened to other places.

- - -


I1.

My post was general in nature. It was not "about" you. You are hardly the first person to be offered the cover charge for access to Episode. It happens to *me* all the time! You could have simply said, "I agree...I only bring in people I know". Instead now we have some kind of bogus conflict.

And my post had 2 points.

I am quite explicit in saying my point was *not* about keeping info away from cops. I know they already have it. I said so.

SO let me try again.

I would challenge anyone to go back one year and find anything close to this kind of conversation about Episode on a *public* board. This kind of discussion of Episode *to the random web surfing public* is literally unprec****ted. This is a totally public place, full of uncounted lurkers not to mention *random curious non-hobbyists*.

If Episode wanted a higher profile they would advertise like some other places do. They don't. They have their reasons. Maybe we should respect that. Perhaps this is how they've survived for so long.

[jgd]

Rufus, you worry too much. Every cop in NYC knows about Episode.

[Eye Won]

I want you to think hard about the next question I am going to ask.... How did you find out about Episodes in the first place...... Think about it, then let me know..
Imperialone....OUT!!!!

[pinga]

I can answer that. I've been going there for 22 years and the boss tells when they are moving again. Yeah, guys just tone it down a bit.

[Rufus Moses]

jgd - this is the third time ... please pay attention ...

I KNOW the cops know where Episode is.

They will more or less leave it alone as long as it remains somewhat invisible *to the public*. If it becomes obviously visible *to the public* then they will feel like they have to do something about it.

They don't need a flashing neon sign to know where Episodes is. But if Episode put up a flashing neon sign the cops would be forced to bust them because it is flagrant.

Same thing here. UG is a very very public place. Discussion of Episode should take place among small circles of people, not here. That is how I heard about it.

Get it?

(Obvious question - what can we talk about then? For starters, any establishment which *chooses* to advertise in print or on the web. That is, in fact, what is mostly discussed here.)

[Eye Won]

You didn't answer my question....? Still thinking about the answer?

Imperialone....OUT!!!!!!

[Rufus Moses]

From my post directly above yours:

"Discussion of Episode should take place among small circles of people, not here. That is how I heard about it."

That is as much as I care to disclose here.

[Eye Won]

I knew you were gonna say that....but most of us know the answer to that question... Well at least a small group of us do......

Imperialone....OUT!!!!!

[Rufus Moses]

I have no idea what you are huffing and puffing about.

The point is I didn't hear about Episode in an open public place like UG. And that is as it should be. And that is what I am advocating for others *as well as myself*. And that is what relates to this discussion.

Finally, I am not about to break a confidence (i.e. *exactly* how I first learned about Episode) just because you think we are having a dispute.

[Tankcommander]

When you get your own board, or open your own brothel, then you can start telling people what to do. A guy like imp, i believe that the only person who tells him what to do is his mother, so lay off him before he starts sharpening his knife again...

[un4given]

Cant we all just be friends? Pains me to see all this fighting goin on.. Rufus was makin a suggestion, no need to flame him. And he does have a point. But doesnt look like he was commanding anyone as to what to do with themselves, just makin a suggestion, if u dont agree just ignore it... so no reason to fight...

[Rufus Moses]

I1 and TC ...

I just don't get it. I met you guys in person once. You both have my e-mail if there is a beef. We all got along just fine.

Anyone who goes back and reads this and the other thread will see that 2 things happened.

First I1 took a general comment I made personally, and then when I immediately said it was not directed at him, he said (in the other thread) OK fine we have no dispute.

But then *he started in on me* with some line of questioning that I still don't understand, with veiled accusations of...who knows what?

I have no idea what this is about or why you both seem to have so much pent up anger. I hope you can both find some joy in your lives.

[Edited by Rufus Moses on 06-26-2001 at 12:49 PM]

[blkthought2001]

Been trying to get a sponser to get entrance into this place. sounds like good cheap fun. Yeah! Imperial, planning any trips soon? If so let me know. I'm down to go anytime after work.

Thanks.

[Tankcommander]

No hablo ingles...

Do I know you?

[un4given]

hablo ingles. Necesito etrar para divertirme mucho. Can anyone help? Will be greatful... not eternally but sufficiently!

samdaman@hushmail.com

[blkthought2001]

I not much apart of this board but the moderator suggested I inquire here. I've been reading these posts for a while and have some information to offer. None of which I want to share on an open board. Only asking for help in getting in. I you can't help out that's ok, I'll find it out eventually I'm guessing.

BTW, what's up Un4Given. You changed your email. Been tring to get in touch. Thanks for the info on the Brooklyn spots and I hope you tried out the contact I suggested.

Peace

[un4given]

Yes hushmail lost my account info 2 months ago, so my email is samdaman@hushmail.com now. I lost all my contacts from the un4given account, including all the info saved in it:P. Anyway its good we got back in touch.

[un4given]

:):):):):)I wonder why im so happy tonite.....:):):):):)

[Slinky Bender]

SO, who was the lucky lady ?????

[un4given]

Rufus hushmail deleted all my old mail... could you tell me your email address again?

samdaman@hushmail.com

[Edited by un4given on 07-24-2001 at 10:06 PM]

[Rufus Moses]

Sent!

[NYCBoy]

Post says Episodes is shut down.

[Eye Won]

Episodes has been shut down yet again.... Not to worry, they will be open again shortly...They always bounce right back
Imperialone......OUT!!!!!!

[Rufus Moses]

When Episodes wasn't the subject of discussion on public boards it went for many many months without problems. Some times they went for years at a time without incident. In the last few months they've been the object of unprec****ted open discussion here and elsewhere. They've been open at the new location for only a short while and now have problems.

It is impossible to know exactly why they've had problems recently. Perhaps it has nothing to do with being too publicized on the internet.

But given their recent problems, maybe it is finally time for everyone to realize how easily a place like this can be lost, and exercise discretion by simply not speaking of this place to large public audiences. I am sure it is what the operators would prefer.

[Slinky Bender]

I think in this particular case, the shortness of how long they were in this location has more to do with a poor choice of "building" rather than discussion on public boards. Like PIT on 16th Street, they chose the wrong building to be in ( ok, so you know I'm going to say that I called both those "shots" and that's why I'm bringing it up ).

The writing was on the wal for a "short stay" in this location from the first day they openned, with or without any discussion.

[Rufus Moses]

But you can't know that. The place had a surge in business over the past few months as well. I think it is clear the word is spreading too fast too far.

Respectfully, as well meaning as I think you are, I also think you have a conflict of interest when it comes to this topic. I don't think you mentioned in your 10 commandments any notion that some places or activities really shouldn't be discussed on large boards like UG. You want your board active. This is natural.

But do you really feel there should be no sense of discretion about places that choose to not advertise in any way?

Have you always felt this way about, say, places like ***?

You've never worried that loose lips there would endanger services you enjoyed?

[Slinky Bender]

"But you can't know that"

And neither can you. However, you seem willing to accept your own assumptions, but not mine, even though whatever evidence exists is to the contrary. As i stated, the writing was on the wall for this location from the start, so to assume that the reason is the one you stated is a bit like linking rainfall in pittsberg to the Dow. Yes, there is a strong correlation, but using one to prove the other is hearing hoofbeats and sceaming "watch it, there are Zebras !!! ".

rufus, your assumptions are no better than mine, so before you go pointing to mine and saying they are unprovable, work on making yours better, first.

[Rufus Moses]

Fine. I am happy to give you this one. The place had problems b ecause of the building choice. The uptick in business was coincidental. The other questions are more interesting anyway.

Do you really feel there need be no sense of discretion in posting on UG about places that choose to not advertise in any way?

Have you always felt this way? For example, have you never worried that loose lips on The Big Dog site would endanger underground services you enjoyed?

[Slinky Bender]

I have always fealt that, to some extent, that is simply part of the business. For example, you can note our previous conversations regarding discussions on *** Spa about "services", and note that I personally felt refraining from such discussions was worthless.

[Rufus Moses]

I feel like there is an implicit pact between provider and client that to some degree both will respect their mutual wishes for confidentiality.

If I choose to tell people about my hobby that is one thing. But it certainly shouldn't be up to the provider as to whether my hobby is announced to the general public.

It should be symmetric. If an establishment decides to go for public exposure that is one thing. But if they don't I shouldn't be the one announcing them to the public.

So this is only partly about wanting them to stay in business for my own selfish reasons. It also comes from a sense of fair play.

[littleguy]

Let's see if I've got this straight.

Business wants to make money.

For that it needs customers.

To get customers, potential customers need to know about it.

More customers that know about it, more danger of being put out of business.

Is this what's commonly referred to as a "conundrum" ?l

[Rufus Moses]

Right, except this place never needed to advertise and pre-dates the web. They, like many others, found a balance by using word of mouth only. So for them, exposure beyond word of mouth is something they don't want, and will only destabilize their business.

[Eye Won]

I know Im a little late on this one and I knew Rufus was gonna come out and say I told you so. As far as saying that their was a huge surge in business. I would agree but it wasn't because of Utopia Guide.... I personally only took 4 from here and those 4 pretty much kept it to themselves and one was unhappy and never went back..
Imperialone.....OUT!!!!!!!!

[Rufus Moses]

This is what I said.

"It is impossible to know exactly why they've had problems recently. Perhaps it has nothing to do with being too publicized on the internet"

I would have been happy to say nothing. Which is exactly the point. But since folks keep talking about it, I want to make the only reasonable response...that is to say that places that choose to be underground should be allowed to remain underground. And that might require some self-restraint on our part.

UG ain't underground. We should show some restraint.

-rufus

[un4given]

I think there are no easy answers to problems... But I think its obvious that the location was temporary because:

1) In an overpriced residential building where every tenant goes to sleep thinking about the resale value of their home, even a barking dog can get someone in trouble.

2) A big lie is more obvious than a small one. A strip club with extras is less likely to be busted because its in an area that already allowed a strip club to exist in the first place, hence more tolerant. And policing a strip club would be a lot harder, without incriminating oneself. When someone tells me a private club (in a place that more looks like a medical office from the outside!), I may think of child molestation, mafia, drug business. My imagination leads me to conclude things far worse than they are, and call me to action quicker. By far it was the most blatant lack of cover i could concieve of. They would have done a lot better being a medical office, or a research lab, or a tatoo place!

3) I agree with Rufus that open discussion may have significantly contributed to the fall of Rome. We have to share information, and recommendations -- its one thing. But posting pricing info, and other more concrete information (such as what has been posted in the non-member section of JAG) is unacceptable. Share info with judgement... one individual to another. The board should give people leads, not give them a rundown of what to do. Those that are interested (like i was), will do their research and keep trying to make connections until someone will trust them enough to share 1 - 1.

the above is my personal opinion:). Dont flame me if u disagree.... just speak your mind in turn.

-- un4given

un4given@hushmail.com (YES i got this address back!)
samdaman@hushmail.com (I still have this one too)