I thought this was a forum about the "hobby"?

[ew]

I assume many like me (a beginner) lurk for a while and then contribute when they have something to add. While I guess this makes me deadweight to some of the posters I do generate traffic by reading almost everything from the threads.

I think it is relatively easy to see the motives behind some posts, but it is hardly ever productive for boards to get "into" it. It is quite easy for boards to degenerate and stray from their initial mission. While I love baseball and would have much to say, that's not why I'm on this board. Ditto for guns.

[guy catelli]

personally, i think of it the way i might a 'sports bar'. sure, everyone in a sports bar has some level of interest in 'the sporting life'. but, people are also entitled to discuss other things as well. certainly, typical 'guy topics' are not out of line in a sports bar -- it's part of the whole 'male-bonding' thing that makes for a 'community' of shared interests, rather than just a data directory.

frankly, i wish there were more 'guy stuff' about computers, as my desktop PC wouldn't recognize either of its hard disk drives this morning. :(

[Hotpuppy]

Originally posted by ew

I think it is relatively easy to see the motives behind some posts, but it is hardly ever productive for boards to get "into" it. It is quite easy for boards to degenerate and stray from their initial mission. While I love baseball and would have much to say, that's not why I'm on this board. Ditto for guns.



This subject has gotten a fair amount of play on the NY board. I respect your opinion, but I will respond to you in the same way I did to Mr. Skagen: if a particular thread, or a particular board is not meeting your needs or interests, then move on- or generate a thread that will get you where you want to go. I dont think these boards are degenerating, in fact they seem sort of vibrant. I find the recent discussions more worthwhile than the not too distant past avalanche of kissy face posts reminiscent of *** at its worst. I quickly discovered what to avoid and didnt contribute until the threads were more toward my interests. Finally, if it is purely hobby info you are after, I have found it far more instructive to mine the experiences of posters that resonate with you- via email.
take care hp


[Edited by Hotpuppy on 04-21-2001 at 10:51 PM]

[ew]

You are right of course. I am relatively new on this board, but as I stated earlier I have seen this happen to other great internet resources in other areas not related to this hobby.

But as with other boards, the pool of posters will get smaller and more clubby as bystanders drift off. Isn't this in direct conflict with the original mission of the board?

I wouldn't know if it is related or not, but ads seem to be dwindling. An ad would (I assume) only be successful if this site would draw a wide range of potential clients. As people drift off and the board becomes more of club and information exchange goes via email there will be even less reason for traffic. It would be a shame to see this board become marginalized.

I hasten to add that the information from past posts is top-notch, a great mix of hobby-related info and peripheral threads. Even though you have to sift through the crap on other boards, new information does pop up. I am just concerned that by the time I have anything to add the ballgame will be over.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by ew
.... I am just concerned that by the time I have anything to add the ballgame will be over.the 'ballgame' is unlikely to be over until men are no longer willing to pay for female companionship and/or enough women become so wealthy that they don't need anyone else's help in paying the bills.

[ew]

You certainly are right about that, but I was speaking of this boards function as a waystation for horndogs.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by ew
You certainly are right about that, but I was speaking of this boards function as a waystation for horndogs. me too.

[ew]

Just can't get the last word when you're up conversing with guy can you?

I did manage to elicit a 2 word response, although maybe that means I'm not worthy. :)

[boris]

I'm happy to see a variety of off topic topics sprout here. I don't ordinarily join conversations about what sort of bullet is least likely to injure bystanders or whether it's harder to hit Roger Clemens with a golf ball thrown by Mike Piazza or a baseball bat shot from a .45, but I certainly don't mind listening in. At the same time, I'm worried that there isn't much discussion of escorts or hobby life here anymore either. I have no idea if one is a function or reaction to the other.

When reviews and hobby talk do start coming back here, I think it'll help me to know that a person writing that he just had the ultimate gfe with an incredibly beautiful woman also thinks that Rey Ordonez is on a par with Ozzie Smith, decries the fact that you can't find fifteen round clips anymore, or that FDR let the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor. Much to my surprise, the people who have these views and interests wildly different from my own, often seem to have the same taste in escorts as I. Other times, it gives me some basis for their having such a different reaction or having gotten so different a reaction from one of these angels of mercenary.

Bottom line, I'm not worried about the digressions, but I do think we need to make an effort to start some new "on topic" discussions as well and to keep the joint
"escort-friendly" whatever it means or what's happened here I can't say except that there are fewer women here than there were six weeks ago.

[Hotpuppy]

ew: hang in for awhile, things seem to move in patterns, ebbs and flows- the tide may turn back to the point that you will be more comfortable wading in/ its definately true that there are fewer providers contributing of late, but if you check ***, those that were regulars here have cut back their posting over there as well and that board does not digress off topic and BTW there is alot more nasty, crazy stuff going on there. My guess is that they will return when it suits them, whether for business or personal reasons. Personally, because of where I live, I dont really need this board for informational purposes, I rather look forward to the exchanges on the wide variety of topics.

[guy catelli]

a lot of the people who do the disproportionate share of the posting here already have a lot of both offline and online experience. many of us have already thrashed out a lot of the 'on-topic' issues while at JAG -- myself included {chuckling}.

it is true that more of us could gamble on R&D, and then give away the results for free. if everyone {including all the lurkers} spent the same amount of time and money, and were equally generous about sharing the results of their research, and there were no "cheaters", then this would be an economically rational move.

{btw, instead of focusing on the fact that the attention of the oldtimers is starting to wander, and that, therefore, the board culture itself might become senescent, there is always the alternative strategy of picking up a copy of New York Magazine, the Voice, the NY Press, etc, and providing us with some '411'. ;) }

and, just as in sports, both individual performers and teams go on 'streaks'. in probability theory, it's called 'clustering'. so, don't be surprised to log in some morning next week and find that there are 3 "new finds".

also, boards have a certain life cycle. in any organization, of any kind, there are certain stages of development, often beginning with sketching an outline on a napkin in a bar, moving on to setting up shop in a garage, attic, or den, proceeding through birth, early childhood, adolescence, early adulthood, etc.

for an interesting retrospective on another board's ongoing growth cycle (inspired by whining that the board has become 'boring' and that it 'censors' posts that might get the board sued for a few million dollars), see: http://www.*********.net/discussion/posts/37685.html

[littleguy]

You are correct ew, you can't.

See how much you've learned by lurking already ?

[ew]

Littleguy, I lurk in many places, including the board that is often maligned by many, but is an awesome resource.

Guy, I am well aware of this topic having read many of the past threads on this topic.

These posts on this board are the first I have done for the "hobby". I have been a large poster on other boards and topics. I just felt compelled to throw this up to the crowd b/c I do feel that this board fills/filled a good niche.

[San_Te]

I have to agree with EW this board doesn't really have much hobby related info lately. Although, I still visit the board I just skim through the threads because there isn't much substance. It is also hard to go through the threads swiftly because every message must load. I prefer to be able to see the thread and response headers so I can quickly see what is going on in a particular thread.

[Hotpuppy]

http://www.*********.net/newyork/posts/25801.html

[ew]

That was not the board I was speaking of, but that post is clearly a situation which I wish can be avoided here.

Anyway, not that I give a crap about ***, but I like to think of them as the training wheels that got me started. Got the basics and, mostly, moved on. Hey, I even figured out all by myself which providers have their cliques. You can see this most clearly when discussion of rates comes up.

[Hotpuppy]

Just thought it was funny, wasnt trying to make fun of you or anything- no offense?
BTW, it sounds like you have experiences to share here, a surefire way to get things on topic
take care hp

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by ew
That was not the board I was speaking of, but that post is clearly a situation which I wish can be avoided here.

Anyway, not that I give a crap about ***, but I like to think of them as the training wheels that got me started. Got the basics and, mostly, moved on. Hey, I even figured out all by myself which providers have their cliques. You can see this most clearly when discussion of rates comes up. well, that's 6 posts, so far, on your theme that we aren't doing enough for you -- who has done so much for us. care to make it seven? :p

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by ew
Just can't get the last word when you're up conversing with guy can you?

I did manage to elicit a 2 word response, although maybe that means I'm not worthy. :) you've got the right idea. this is not always the case, nor is its converse, but generally speaking, i tend to completely ignore comments that are so hopelessly clueless as to not warrant further reply.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by guy catelli
... don't be surprised to log in some morning next week and find that there are 3 "new finds"....i logged on this morning to find that the Great Oz and mirage had provided anecdotal support for this remark.

[ew]

It's like a morning after pill to counter the thread?

I'm kidding.

This thread has done what I wanted it to and I will now commence lurking again.

[boris]

Just out of curiousity and possible ignorance, what is this board's niche?

1. *** is sort of the Microsoft of this realm. Seems like everyone complains about possible predatory practices, and other bugs, but most everyone is still using it and depends on it to a certain extent.
2. TER seems to be the place for reviews at the moment particularly if you're in LA
3. JAG is/was a strong client oriented site with some emphasis on NYC (for some reason I think Apple Computers in that a business decision was made that
cut its market share of new reviews dramatically.
4. Redbook lots of reviews of northern california
5. ASPD/ymmv lots of Texas stuff
6. Fox Files great recommendations, but no message boards to speak of and the content doesn't change a whole lot.
7. Heaven or Hell? very rarely mentioned
8. Escort America, the mother of all message boards, but like MSDOS, still kind of around, but doesn't offer the features or breadth of the other boards.


This one seems to be about discussion more than reviews. It still heavily New York. It seems to be moderated with a fairly light touch or the posters are fairly disciplined here, more leash law than zookeeper (the biggest attraction for me).
More off topic discussion. On balance, somewhat more sophisticated hobbyists, though some quirky characters here (not necessarily excluding myself). At least not a lot of "me too's" "endless ISO's" or bizarre games.
On balance, if it has a niche for me, I do come here for interesting discussion that's bound together by the hobby but not necessarily about it. At the moment, it seems to be the best public place for that.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by ew
...This thread has done what I wanted it to ...oh? and, what is that?

[Carl M]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by boris
[B]Just out of curiousity and possible ignorance, what is this board's niche?

This one seems to be about discussion more than reviews. It still heavily New York. It seems to be moderated with a fairly light touch or the posters are fairly disciplined here, more leash law than zookeeper (the biggest attraction for me).
More off topic discussion. On balance, somewhat more sophisticated hobbyists, though some quirky characters here (not necessarily excluding myself). At least not a lot of "me too's" "endless ISO's" or bizarre games.
On balance, if it has a niche for me, I do come here for interesting discussion that's bound together by the hobby but not necessarily about it. At the moment, it seems to be the best public place for that.

Boris you can come out and say it- This board blows away all others!!

[SkellyChamp]

Certainly an argument for me for this board to stay exclusively on hobbying would be that I know I would not run the risk of agreeing with GC.

In discussions about non-hobbying topics I almost actually find that we may have some areas of ideas and ideas where we actually agree. And while that thought doesn't help me ulcers any, it does help me digest some of his hobbying views a little easier (even though he never met a word he didn't like and still uses $10 words to express $.05 thoughts). GC's sports bar analogy is apt.

I guess what I'm getting at is that by mixing in non-hobbying discussions, I can get a better sense of an individual and that helps me assess his/her comments about hobbying and the ladies and how any of that my jibe with my view, preferences, etc. Sort of the totality of circumstances thing.

[guy catelli]

as usual, i agree with SC, in the main. this is because, as usual, i use selective quotes to make my point.Originally posted by SkellyChamp
Certainly an argument for me for this board to stay exclusively on hobbying would be that I know I would not run the risk of agreeing with GC.it wouldn't help. in that event, i would, perversely, post things about this thing of ours that you would also agree with.....GC's sports bar analogy is apt.see -- with enough editing, we can agree about anything.I guess what I'm getting at is that by mixing in non-hobbying discussions, I can get a better sense of an individual and that helps me assess his/her comments about hobbying and the ladies and how any of that my jibe with my view, preferences, etc. Sort of the totality of circumstances thing. again we agree on my point all along that creating an environment where escorts feel free to go 'off-topic' (if that's the right term) is perhaps the best way to gauge compatibility of personalities, rather than 2nd hand accounts (no matter how sincere).

[SkellyChamp]

oh yes - i forgot to mention

i would miss GC's selective editing

of not only his posts but others also so that in the end we are all seen as agreeing with GC

[jmcurry]

EW and San_Te: I am guilty of responding to non-hobby related topics, especially regarding professional sports. I have long realized that this is not proper discourse for the board, but I have been drawn in willingly to these discussions. I promise to refrain from all such conversation, beginning as of now. Accordingly, do not look for my input into professional sports; it is obviously unwarranted and misplaced. If the sole purpose of UG is dialogue about providers, I will comply willingly.

My only question is, since very few contributors post actual reviews, what will sustain our dialogue? What parameters should we establish that separate discussion of the hobby from other male passions? If we eliminate music, sports, and general culture from these threads, what keeps our discourse alive? I intend to follow your dictates; I simply want some clarification.

[littleguy]

jmc,

I'm not being a smartass here (for a change) but where are we supposed to post reviews ? I don't recall ever seeing a "review" section of this site.

I see links for "message boards", "classifieds" and "links" but nothing for "reviews".

Or are we supposed to simply start a thread for an experience.

Also, since the nature of this board is for both hobbyists AND providers, I'm not sure the reviews would be as useful as they otherwise might be.

Shit, and I promised myself I was going to try to be less "mean spirited".

BTW, I kinda like going off on a tangent once in a while on sports, or almost anything else. It's kinda fun (and funny). And those that don't want to participate don't have to. They'll know the threads they want to avoid.

[Edited by littleguy on 04-23-2001 at 07:39 PM]

[ew]

My only intent was to raise the question of focus. Hey, I freely accept that Imy views may be mistaken on this count, but I wanted to see what others thought.

JM, I did not intend to try to limit the discussions on the board in any way or to constrain others from freely posting what they wish. I am just a lurker, you (and others) have contributed far more to this board.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by ew
....I am just a lurker,....me too.

[jmcurry]

LG: I enjoy the discussions of sports, music, film, etc. I was merely responding to criticism that these threads have no business here. I will happily continue these dialogues. They are stimulating and intelligent. Concerning reviews, why not simply post one on the relevant local board? It could be informative.

[Slinky Bender]

It's amazing how long people will keep coming back to a place just so they have something too complain about.

[Wowie69]

Ain't love grand?