Thursday Evening Underground 6/27

[nycstripclubs]

If you've never been underground, this Thursday evening (6/27) is the time to go. If you want an after work event, there's gonna be Desire's Daytime Hotspot starting at 4:30 pm. If you want to make it a late night, check out Brainfest Survivor 2. The real diehards can do both because they're gonna be within 6 or 7 blocks of each other in Midtown Manhattan.

So for those of you that had doubts, because many of the parties on the calendar are in edgy neighborhoods, NO MORE EXCUSES.

Once you try one of these events, you'll never tolerate an air dance in a mainstream club again. 8+ mileage** wall dances start at $5, 8-9+ mileage lap dances are $10 and they both offer 10 mileage VIP that'll make you kick yourself for ever dropping $300-$500 for 8 mileage mainstream CR's.

Both events are listed in the NYC Strip Clubs Calendar. Call the individual promoter for location and admittance information.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nycstripclubs/cal You must join the club to view the calendar.

You won't regret it.

Peace,
Valjean
nycstripclubs@yahoo.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nycstripclubs/

**Mileage Scale-
http://www.geocities.com/nycstripclubs/Mileage.html

[Escort_King]

Let it be know I will be there and will grab a few friends to bring along... should be an interesting night... I will see if I can drag Tank and Flounder... Bill if you see this get in touch...

[Space]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs

So for those of you that had doubts, because many of the parties on the calendar are in edgy neighborhoods, NO MORE EXCUSES.



Well, here's my question. What kind of music are we talking about?

And yes it matters to me. I'm not uptight about types of music or anything, but the vibe of a club is a major factor.

[AirTravel]

Music?

Violin Concertos of course...

Love (spelled LUST) will be in the air...

[mr_deviant]

Originally posted by Space


Well, here's my question. What kind of music are we talking about?

And yes it matters to me. I'm not uptight about types of music or anything, but the vibe of a club is a major factor.


Good question ... I care about music ... I will not go anywhere to get subjected to rap at way too loud levels

[nycstripclubs]

The music probably won't be loud at the first event cause it's in a hotel. The second event will probably be louder cause it's in a club.

As far as what will be playing, probably something like Hot 97.

[ragin_hardon]

Escort king / Tank / Bill - it would be good to meet you and swap some Julies stories...

[occasionalhobbyist]

Jeez! If it takes listening to loud rap to get a decent LD in this City, I'll do it!

[Escort_King]

Which one will you be at? I want to attend and have *****ed you so hope you get in touch... snjaussie on the egroup

[Space]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
The music probably won't be loud at the first event cause it's in a hotel. The second event will probably be louder cause it's in a club.

As far as what will be playing, probably something like Hot 97.

Ok, so we're talking semi-loud to loud rap, hip-hop, r&b.

Thanks, I'll pass. I like some hip-hop, and I'm no playa-hater but that kind of LD clubbing just doesn't turn my crank.

Something about the way the girls dance, all that rap video-style ass-wobbling.

I find it anything but sexy. euwww.

[Escort_King]

Should be there by 10:30... I'll be the one drinking cokes and drooling.... and maybe spending a few benjis... okay maybe 4-5...

LOL

[JackT]

for those of us who couldn't make it last night,


HOW WAS IT??????

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by Escort_King
Should be there by 10:30... I'll be the one drinking cokes and drooling.... and maybe spending a few benjis... okay maybe 4-5...

LOL

Sorry I missed you, but I was out of there by 9p, 4 hours was plenty for me.

That' the thing about these events, you don't need to spend that kinda money to have a VERY good time. I very rarely drop three and often less than 2.

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by JackT
for those of us who couldn't make it last night,


HOW WAS IT??????

You missed a good one. There are a couple of reviews on the yahoo board.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nycstripclubs/

[clubber]

This was a really good event! Lots of girls, perhaps a notch lower than some other underground parties, and comfortable surroundings too. Decent security. I was there from about 12:30 to about 3:30 and had an excellent time w/o too much negative cash flow~

[me8989]

Absolutely no screening to get in, just sent an *****, and received an ***** with info.
Got there around 5pm until 9pm. Knock on the door and you're in.
Disapointed with the girls there (all black, with either no boobs, saggy boobs, saggy stomach, saggy ass) though they had great attitudes, but they turned me off. You could get great milage if you weren't turned off. Waited to see if more girls will arrive. They showed up, some better looking, best looking was a 7.
Two white girls saved the day with a lesbo show. Heard about their VIP, heard it was fantastic even though one of 'em had no boobies. Heard that VIP was $.5 FS .5 for BS. VIP had no privacy, with the shvartze bouncer peeking in, and knocking on the door, heard that you had to finish with a hand job because of the pressure to get out of there.
The place filled up and was very hot and sweaty including the girls. The white girls saved the day for me.
For $.2 you can get half hour FS in bklyn (russian incall) with privacy, for same entrance fee ($25) you get admitted to nice strip club with good looking girls, good music, good drinks and AC.
With both options, there is minimised risk of getting busted, so I probably wouldn't visit such a place again.

[Rufus Moses]

"shvartze bouncer" is a racial slur...

[me8989]

Didn't mean it that way, though it's not a slur. It means "Black bouncer" just in yiddish.
It's misconception that shvartze is a deragatory term. All it means is Black.

[bigdoggie]

but his being black is not relevant

[Rufus Moses]

"It means "Black bouncer" just in yiddish. It's misconception that shvartze is a deragatory term."

Most American Jews that use Yiddish terms can't actually speak it as a language...they just know a few phrases and those tend to have a strong denotative sense...and shvartze has had an intended strong negative denotation whenever I've heard it used...

And more to the point, it is usually *taken* as a negative...

So if that is not your intent you might want to consider some other word or your are bound to be misunderstood...

[justlooking]

Maybe that'll have more credibility if it's DITTOed by someone who's actually an American Jew.

[nycstripclubs]

The fact that the "Two white girls saved the day " for him, shows where he's coming from. Don't waste your breath.

BTW how do you know that Rufus isn't an "American Jew"?

[Rufus Moses]

I wear really tight pants...

[justlooking]

I think it's quite possible to not have a sexual preference for Booty Girls and still not be a racist. (I personally generally hate the girls at those parties, but I like the music and think the bouncers are cool. But I don't hang out at places cause I like the bouncers.)

As for Rufus, I just know.

[sharked]

i think its the same as saying kike bouncer. still means jewish bouncer

[RobbRoy]

Enough of the racial slurs. Whether or not the guy was black really has no bearing on this. His job wasn't to entertain you. That's for the girls. You happen to prefer white girls to black girls, and there's nothing wrong or racial about that, it's your preference in women. But the bouncer has nothing to do with it. The fact that he was black has no meaning. The use of the word you used, whether meant in a derogatory way or not (note: i am jewish and would never use that word around a black person...whether it's meant in a bad way or not, it is usually percieved in a negative way. By definition it's not a bad word, but it is has negative connotations attached to it.) was unnecessary. So let's just drop this and stop throwing around words like 'kike' which is on par with 'nigger', not 'schvartze'. This is becoming a very distasteful thread. Before this gets ugly, let's just stop it now.

Let's hear more about the Underground Event. I wanted to make it to the later of the two events but couldn't. Can anyone give some useful info about it?

[James1701]

Originally posted by me8989
Didn't mean it that way, though it's not a slur. It means "Black bouncer" just in yiddish.
It's misconception that shvartze is a deragatory term. All it means is Black.


It is a deragatory term and you know it.

[duffer]

Originally posted by RobbRoy
Enough of the racial slurs. Whether or not the guy was black really has no bearing on this. His job wasn't to entertain you. That's for the girls. You happen to prefer white girls to black girls, and there's nothing wrong or racial about that, it's your preference in women. But the bouncer has nothing to do with it. The fact that he was black has no meaning. The use of the word you used, whether meant in a derogatory way or not (note: i am jewish and would never use that word around a black person...whether it's meant in a bad way or not, it is usually percieved in a negative way. By definition it's not a bad word, but it is has negative connotations attached to it.) was unnecessary. So let's just drop this and stop throwing around words like 'kike' which is on par with 'nigger', not 'schvartze'. This is becoming a very distasteful thread. Before this gets ugly, let's just stop it now.

Let's hear more about the Underground Event. I wanted to make it to the later of the two events but couldn't. Can anyone give some useful info about it?

I was with you until you got up to the point of stating that schvartze is a word you would not utilize "around a black person"... this leaves me to believe that you have no problem using this term when people who happen to be black are not in your presence. If this is not the case, would you have not said that this is a word "I would never use"? I am very hard pressed to accept any defense of "schvartze" as a term of endearment, if a person whose culture created this word, will refrain from using it around the people it apparently refers to.

[justlooking]

I'll DITTO that, too, in case Duffer's not Jewish.

(Not that this isn't terrifically off-point already.)

[Eugene]

When it's used by someone who is German, is it then politically correct? Or may be Arnold Schwartsenegger should change his name to Mr. Arnold Black-something. Guys, please let's not get silly, it's a whore site. What kind of a political correctness can and should be expected here?
What really counts is that I understood that the review was very negative and will not want to attend an event like that.

[drojek]

The only time I have heard schvartze, was when it was spit out in contempt. I'm no more PC than the next guy, but I find it highly inappropriate in this context.

[jaydevice]

I've never heard anyone use it other than in Space Balls.

May the schvartze be with you!

[drojek]

I think that was "May the schwartz be with you!"
I don't remember Mel Brooks ever saying "schvartze" (at least in public)

[sharked]

Originally posted by duffer


I was with you until you got up to the point of stating that schvartze is a word you would not utilize "around a black person"... this leaves me to believe that you have no problem using this term when people who happen to be black are not in your presence.

I would never say kike bouncer around any jewish guys.

Personally, I don't really give a damn what people call each other, regard less if its deragatory or not. I figure, If you get pissed that someone refers to you in a deragatory term, your ashamed of your group.

[duffer]

Originally posted by Eugene
When it's used by someone who is German, is it then politically correct? Or may be Arnold Schwartsenegger should change his name to Mr. Arnold Black-something. Guys, please let's not get silly, it's a whore site. What kind of a political correctness can and should be expected here?
What really counts is that I understood that the review was very negative and will not want to attend an event like that.

I have no expectations whatsoever for “political correctness” from a public forum where messages are posted anonymously. I also have no tolerance for racial bigotry. Am I going to change the world with any words spoken here? I doubt it very much… I am simply invoking my inalienable right to say what I feel in what I hope is a coherent and respectful manner.

[duffer]

Originally posted by sharked


I would never say kike bouncer around any jewish guys.

This is very noble of you...

Originally posted by sharked


Personally, I don't really give a damn what people call each other, regard less if its deragatory or not. I figure, If you get pissed that someone refers to you in a deragatory term, your ashamed of your group.

I shudder to think what the world would be like if the majority shared similar sentiments. IMHO this, in the least, borders on "blaming the victim."

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by drojek
I think that was "May the schwartz be with you!"
I don't remember Mel Brooks ever saying "schvartze" (at least in public)

Actually Mel Brooks uses the word quite publicly as the Yiddish speaking Indian chief in the film “Blazing Saddles” during the wagon train scene. I believe the exact quote is “Schvartzes, loz im gayen” which translated in to English means “Blacks, let them go”. This was an inside joke which most gentiles never got.

In that case there was absolutely no negative connotation at all related to the Yiddish word “schvartze”; it simply meant black. In fact, I’m not sure there is another way of referring to black people in Yiddish. As an American Jew, I have never heard any. And although I can understand some Yiddish, I certainly don’t have the vocabulary to know for sure.

Depending on the speaker, “schvartze” may or may not have a negative connotation. If the speaker is a native Yiddish speaker, “schvartze” probably only means black. This is especially true of Jews from the WWII generation (of which Mel Brooks is one) and those of an insular Yiddish community like the Hasids. Often when people are bilingual there is bleed through into English. Much like native French speakers using the word “noir”, or Spanish speakers using the word “negro”. So if a native Yiddish speaker uses the word “schvartze” even when speaking English, it merely means black and has no negative connotation. Therefore, when certain Jews use “schvartze”, among themselves, it most likely has no negative connotation especially if they have close ties to the Yiddish language (ie parents or grandparents who speak it). Personally, I don't use it at all. However, when a native English speaking Jew uses “schvartze” when speaking to an other native English speaker, it might have some negative connotation depending on how it is employed and who he is talking to. It has to be taken in context.

"Schvartze" is certainly NOT a racial slur like "kike" or "nigger". It is however stupid to use the word "schvartze" in a forum where most of the participants have no Yiddish background whatsoever and are more than likely to misinterpet it's intent.

[mr_deviant]

Originally posted by Eugene
What really counts is that I understood that the review was very negative and will not want to attend an event like that.

Agreed. Can we forget the political correctness and focus in on event review. These 'underground' events seem too gansta'ish for my tastes as well. Oh, I guess I'm a racist!

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by mr_deviant


Agreed. Can we forget the political correctness and focus in on event review. These 'underground' events seem too gansta'ish for my tastes as well. Oh, I guess I'm a racist!

Getting back to event review, I’ll address some of me8989’s points on the HOE event.

First the pricing. Door was $25, VIP Room use was $20 although some used the bathroom for free. Extras pricing was industry standard, laps $1-$10 full contact. BJ $30-$50, F/S $60-$100 if you paid more you got taken. I was not disturbed by a “schvartze” or another kinda bouncer for the 15-20 mins I used the room.

Second the women: they ranged in quality from 5-8 caliber. There were several very in shape Sistas to choose from (contrary to what me8989 states). There were a couple of Latinas, 2 Japanese women both over 7 caliber, and 2 white dancers also about 7 caliber. By 9pm when I left there were about 20+ women. Me8989 was right in one thing, ALL the girls had great attitudes and ther was lots of mileage to be had.

Third the space: It was a good sized two-bedroom suite in a midtown hotel with a wrap around balcony. The A/C got overwhelmed in the main room. Too bad it rained cause we could have taken a good part of the party outside. I would loved to have VIP’d under the stars.

Third the shows: A huge omission on me8989’spart. There was regular floor work, vibrator and dildo shows, lesbian shows, and even a show where the dancer shoved a large 3” diameter and 12” long cucumber up her ass and then proceeded to shove a couple of apples up there and make applesauce. ALL the shows were hands on which means for a $1 tip you could grope the dancer. At some points they even handed out gloves so you could touch ANYTHING.

Fourth the crowd: It wasn’t gangster or thuggish at all. It was a very cool completely mixed crowd made up mostly of middle class working guys from the Midtown area. After work events usually are. The $25 door is a barrier that limits access only to those who have a couple of dollars in their pockets. If you go to the later events, like the Brainfest the crowd may look a bit more thuggish, but you have to realize that most are wannabe gangstas, not the real thing. The gangsta thing is more a fashion statement than anything else.

[Eugene]

I am wondering if the underground events will eventually develop into something more civilized? So that they could be accepted by a more culturally mainstream hobbyists. So far those events seem to be only catering to someone who likes rap and hip-hop style and has a similar taste in women.
I'd love to see more Latin and East European/Russian dancers and listen to a more mainstream music, not mentioning having some comfort, security, privacy and airconditioning. (Am I allowed to say this? Is it politically correct? Can you afford to say nowadays that you'd prefer a Latin dancer to an Afican-American one?)

[Space]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs




Third the shows: A huge omission on me8989’spart. There was regular floor work, vibrator and dildo shows, lesbian shows, and even a show where the dancer shoved a large 3” diameter and 12” long cucumber up her ass and then proceeded to shove a couple of apples up there and make applesauce.


Oh my *blorf* GOD! I'm glad me8989 omitted this part because I just about lost my breakfast.

Thanks for cementing my conviction to never go to one of these events.

[mr_deviant]

Originally posted by Eugene
So far those events seem to be only catering to someone who likes rap and hip-hop style and has a similar taste in women.
I'd love to see more Latin and East European/Russian dancers and listen to a more mainstream music

I'm not concerned of getting robbed or mugged by other patrons. IMHO, there are many people who just don't feel like listening to rap/hip-hop for a couple hours. Crap, even Brittney Spears or N'Sync is tolerable. I dare say that the avg midtown white collar guy with a few nickels to rub together is not a rap/hip-hop fan. If the promoters of these events took the gansta edge off, I would think more people would attend which would lead to better women coming to perform. The upward spiral would take off.

[Escort_King]

Originally posted by Space


Oh my *blorf* GOD! I'm glad me8989 omitted this part because I just about lost my breakfast.

Thanks for cementing my conviction to never go to one of these events.

Hey would have taken bets and had some to eat!!!

But forgot the address and missed it!!! went street hunting and got what I really wanted for a big savings!!! but would have loved to have been there...

[Eugene]

Mr. Deviant. I totally agree with you. It is absolutely in the commercial interest of the promoters to make those events more mainstream, and I would add that the events should start much earlier to attract the lunch hour crowd and the guys leaving their work ealier. Not everybody is at liberty to go somewhere later in the evening. (you have to prepare a special explanation for your wife or girlfriend!)
As for that "artistic expression" with a 12 inch cucumber, thats something I defenitly would not find sexy or appealing in any way.
LOL, and the critics say there is not enough of the original young talent!

[elliot16]

Having attended a couple of these events in the past I have to say that they can be alot of fun within a limited range. As far as the crowd is concerned, I've never seen any fights break out or any violent confrontations between the guys. Occasionally a guy is rude and has to touch a dancer who's dancing for another guy, but that's the worst behavior I've seen. Mostly they are just there with their friends and to party and joke around with the girls and the other guests.

I don't go to listen to the music and so as long as it isn't too blaring or intrusive they could play Montovani for all that I care and it wouldn't effect my good time. The only time that would become an issue is if you are not involved in socializing or getting dances or VIPS since otherwise your mind will be focused elsewhere. Yes, there are dancers whose gimmicks border on the sideshow, but you can choose to look in awe and horror or move on if it isn't something that entertains you. No, you're not likely to get GFE service at one of these events.

What you will get when they are good is a chance to meet and play with a large group of very sexy young african american and latina women who will have all sorts of quickie sex with you for a relatively paltry sum. You get to interact and get a dance or 2 and to see a fair amount of flesh before you make your decision whether or not to VIP. It's a great place to go if you like the Whitman's Sampler approach to quick sexual release.

You can always get a number from a girl if you want to see her for more extended times privately and typically the rates are better than most indy's will give although the performance may be somewhat more limited. Like most things in life it's a trade-off that one either does or doesn't feel comfortable with.

[justlooking]

"CIVILIZED"??????????????

Jesus fucking christ. Let's go back to "schwartzes".

Are we having a contest for "lamest board in existence"?

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by mr_deviant


I'm not concerned of getting robbed or mugged by other patrons. IMHO, there are many people who just don't feel like listening to rap/hip-hop for a couple hours. Crap, even Brittney Spears or N'Sync is tolerable. I dare say that the avg midtown white collar guy with a few nickels to rub together is not a rap/hip-hop fan. If the promoters of these events took the gansta edge off, I would think more people would attend which would lead to better women coming to perform. The upward spiral would take off.

What you guys don't understand is that the promoters don't control the music. The DANCERS pick the music often bringing their own CD's. If you're dealing with a 20 yo urban dancer population, then hip hop is the order of the day. The upside of this is that while you may not like the music, the girls do and thus put on a much better show. What happens in the mainstream clubs is that for the most part, the stage show sucks cause the dancers hate what the DJ is playing. In most clubs where there are house limitations in the music the most you get is dancers walking around on stage. You also get lotsa dancers sitting around doing nothing cause they're bored and the music sucks. However if you go to clubs that allow the dancers to pick the music the dancers are actually having a good time putting on a show for you. If you go to a club like Passions or Taste of Honey, the dancers actually stand around dancing for their own enjoyment when the music moves them and it often does.

Outside the urban environment most dancers like Metal or Alternative music which would probably be as objecionable to you guys.

I have found that if the dancer is enjoying what she is doing on some level, then I have a much better time. Now, after a couple of years in the Hip Hop environment I find myself enjoying the music along with the dancers.

Music is an acquired taste which requires lots of exposure. When I was actually dating, many moons ago, whenever I had a girlfriend, I would remove ALL the top 40 tapes from her car and replace them with music of my preference . After a few months, she knew the words to the songs better than I did.

[Casper]

I haven't had applesauce in many years. I'm hungry, pass me that spoon.

[justlooking]

You know, it's fine to say "I don't like rap music." It's fine to say "I prefer Russians or latinas to black women."

But where the fuck do people come off criticizing an event run by blacks for blacks on the ground that it doesn't sufficiently appeal to (some) whites? And then say that the promoters could make more money if only they were more "civilized"?

I mean (boy these dated references are about to show somebody's age), you can go to the Apollo or you can not go to the Apollo. But you can't go to the Apollo and then complain that it isn't like a fucking Pat Boone concert.

[mr_deviant]

Originally posted by justlooking
But where the fuck do people come off criticizing an event run by blacks for blacks on the ground that it doesn't sufficiently appeal to (some) whites?

I didn't realize these events were run by blacks for blacks. I thought it was run by people trying to make money for horny bastards.

[justlooking]

Do you know where these events came from? Did you look around and see who was running them? Did you look around and see who most of the customers were? (I dunno. Maybe 'cause this one was earlier it was different from all the ones I've been to.)

[justlooking]

What are you gonna do next? Go to Sammy's Roumanian and complain because they don't have lobster salad platters? After all, it's a restaurant trying to make money from hungry eaters.

(Also, that music they play there is kind of annoying. Maybe they should can the guy playing Yiddish songs on the electric piano and pipe in some Four Freshmen records.)

[Eugene]

How do you know that the promoters are blacks doing it only for blacks? Did you see a sign "for blacks only"?
Did they consult you? Don't you think you overestimate yourself?
If you haven't noticed before, money is green and not black or white. The promoters try to move to a better location (if you noticed?) and are trying to attract more paying people regardless of their color, this is quite obvious. I am sure they have just forgot to ask your permission.

[justlooking]

I didn't say they do it ONLY for blacks. Obviously, they let you in and me in, right? They're not excluding anybody. And, yeah, they're happy to take our money.

OTOH, those parties are what they are. It's stupid to criticize them because they aren't something different. And it's INSULTING to criticize them because they aren't "civilized".

Maybe the Sammy's Roumanian analogy was too cute. Listen. Do you think it would be anything other than moronic to complain that you can't get a hamburger in a Chinatown Chinese restaurant? And to call them "uncivilized" because you have to ask three times before they'll give you a fork?

[justlooking]

PS -- Maybe I know some of the promoters. Maybe I talk to them sometimes. Maybe I've been watching these things move to midtown from uptown and Brooklyn over the last year or so. Just maybe.

[justlooking]

We shouldn't even be arguing, Eugene. I've always said that if someone would be able to put together a white version of one of those lockdowns, he'd make a mint. I don't think it would end up being as cheap, though.

[Eugene]

You must be pretty close to the promoters, I believe that, if you are offended for them not being "civilized". Actually the black (according to you) promoters "being not civilized" is totally how you did misunderstand that expression. What I really was referring to was the "cucumber and the apple" show. Or is it civilized for your taste or the taste of the blacks? (hope you do not really think that, because this would really be racist and insulting!) To tell you the truth I do not even know if the cucumber and apple girl even was black, and I had not known that the promoters were black as well, before you told us. Think about it. It is actually your association that the critisism was antiblack. You being white, (as you let us know) having those associations, perhaps shows that you might have some issues with the white/ black relations yourself. Why else would you overcompensate so much otherwise?
But you are right in your last post. We really should not be argueing. Hobbyists of the World UNITE! LOL. And no offense.

[justlooking]

Ohhhhhhh sorry. I guess I thought that because you were agreeing with the guy who was complaining about the hip-hop music and "gangsta" edge, that's what you meant by un-"civilized". If it wasn't, I apologize.

[Eugene]

OK. The World war three was avoided! Peace! LOL.
All the conflicts on our planet have been started with some misunderstanding!

[skagen]

I still don't see what the cucumber and apple thing has to do with civilization.

One of the biggest attractions for British and Australian tourists in Thailand is the sex shows with the women doing all sorts of stuff with their pussy and insertin things in there. The idea is that they are demonstrating how adept they are with the muscles in there. Hey, some guys actually like women who can do something with their pussy other than have you jackhammer them. Maybe not in suburban America, but other peope do in this world. Ya don't like the music, the women or the show, then don't go - its a free country. But its not anybody's place to tell other people that they're not "civilized".

Some people on this board would NEVER taste the pussy of a commercial sex worker, let alone lick her asshole, but you don't hear them telling others that they're uncivilized because they do it.

Some of the racial overtones in that are coming out here are more offensive than whatever the strippers are chosing to stick in their own pussy....

[Slinky Bender]

I still like the event where there were two girls on stage; one laying on her back, and the other sitting opposite her, with a can of peach "halves". One would insert the peach pieces into the other's pussy, and then she would "shoot" it out and the other would catch it back in the can.

[Eugene]

I guess my taste is very different from yours. I do not want to be judgmental, because it's a matter of preference. If you like and find sexy something like that it is perfectly OK with me. The same goes for your sexual practices, if you like licking providers anuses it's your right, that no one (besides the provider in question) can deny you. When I used the word "civilized" it was in reference to my opinion that placing apples and cucumbers in the anus was not "civilized". I probably should have looked for a different word, but could not find it. But again, you for one find it erotic and perhaps that apple souce even appetizing, it's a free country, so enjoy the view and whatever else, please.
What do we know and understand in sex in "suburban America"?

[justlooking]

I remember the first time I had sichuan food. It was in the early 70s. Before the big sichuan boom. I was travelling with my father. We stopped of at a Chinese restaurant in Northhampton, Massachusetts. We didn't know from regional Chinese cooking at that time, so we didn't know this was going to be a completely different kind of food than we were used to.

I loved it. I'd never had anything like it. My father was almost offended by it. "They shouldn't be allowed to serve food this spicy," he said. I said it is what it is, and if you don't like it, don't eat it. But it would be a pity to tone it down so that it was just like everything else.

Of course, ultimately, people like my father won. Until the recent "authentic sichuan" revival, it became almost impossible to find good sichuan food in America. You just got a lot of bland greasy glop.

"Mainstream" people want to take anything that's authentic and a little bit different and turn it into something that they can enjoy without being disturbed or challenged. They turn everything into whitebread. As far as I'm concerned, they ruin just about everything they touch.

Hope you guys are all enjoying the New Times Square.

[skagen]

Originally posted by Eugene
But again, you for one find it erotic and perhaps that apple souce even appetizing, it's a free country, so enjoy the view and whatever else, please

Eugene, I think you missed my point. I'll try again. I would never suck a prostitutes pussy, let alone her ass. But I wouldn't tell anyone that they were "uncivilized" because THEY enjoy it.

As for the applesauce, not my thing either. But there are people who find it interesting, which is why the girls are doing it in the first place.

Its a show - if you don't find it appealing, I'm sure there a blander one that'll work for you. Its legit for you to say it doesn't work for you. Doesn't mean that its "uncivilized" though.

[Eugene]

If "uncivilized" is not the word to describe it? What word would you use if you have to describe this particular show to someone?
And did you personally find it entertaining or erotic? Not some other abstract people, but you.

[greyfox]

Originally posted by slinkybender
I still like the event where there were two girls on stage; one laying on her back, and the other sitting opposite her, with a can of peach "halves". One would insert the peach pieces into the other's pussy, and then she would "shoot" it out and the other would catch it back in the can.


Amateur stuff.Blowing "Happy Birthday" on a toy sax,perfect smoke rings,or a fusillade of ping pong balls 25 feet is impressive.Honeychile Rider was the most gifted artist I've seen in this field.

[nycstripclubs]

I wouldn't call the "apple sauce " show erotic. It was more of a freak show. But like a car wreck, you just had to look.

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by justlooking
We shouldn't even be arguing, Eugene. I've always said that if someone would be able to put together a white version of one of those lockdowns, he'd make a mint. I don't think it would end up being as cheap, though.

i tried saying that once on the yahoo strip club board and even offered and asked for adice about putting one together...... i said we could start half way and try and put one together with a bunch of brazilians, dominicans and other latina types, since they seem likely to be more cost effective than american girls..... i practically got my head chewed off for making such a statement.

[Casper]

Originally posted by Ozzy


i tried saying that once on the yahoo strip club board and even offered and asked for adice about putting one together...... i said we could start half way and try and put one together with a bunch of brazilians, dominicans and other latina types, since they seem likely to be more cost effective than american girls..... i practically got my head chewed off for making such a statement.

Now you're talking, brazilians, and other latinas. I'm in !!!

Good times
Peace Out
C

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by Ozzy


i tried saying that once on the yahoo strip club board and even offered and asked for adice about putting one together...... i said we could start half way and try and put one together with a bunch of brazilians, dominicans and other latina types, since they seem likely to be more cost effective than american girls..... i practically got my head chewed off for making such a statement.

Maybe you could hook up with the Bossman.

However, if I remember the discussion on the Yahoo board correctly the major complaint was that it would be too expensive.

BTW, doesn't NJ Exotics already throw those kind of parties?

[me8989]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Depending on the speaker, “schvartze” may or may not have a negative connotation. If the speaker is a native Yiddish speaker, “schvartze” probably only means black.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I AM a native yiddish speaker!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
and those of an insular Yiddish community like the Hasids. Often when people are bilingual there is bleed through into English.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's me!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So if a native Yiddish speaker uses the word “schvartze” even when speaking English, it merely means black and has no negative connotation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank You!

[nycstripclubs]

You're welcome.

Since your're quoting me, in the future don't forget this part.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is however stupid to use the word "schvartze" in a forum where most of the participants have no Yiddish background whatsoever and are more than likely to misinterpet it's intent.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The problem I have, is that when speaking, thare's often bleed through, but when people are writing it rarely occurrs.

[Rufus Moses]

More to the point...99.99% of Black people (who recognize the term "schvartze" at all) are going to take it as an insult.

For that matter, the word "nigger" comes from the Latin "niger" for black. Good luck in using the n-word and not having people take offense, regardless of cleverly you may use etymology to try to justify its use.

Language is always relative to the population speaking and hearing it in the here and now. UG is not a Hasidic Yiddish speaking community. It doesn't matter where the word came from or what it means elsewhere.

Here, and in the rest of multi-cultural US, "schvartze" is an ethnic slur.

[skagen]

Originally posted by Eugene
If "uncivilized" is not the word to describe it? What word would you use if you have to describe this particular show to someone?
And did you personally find it entertaining or erotic? Not some other abstract people, but you.

I would personally find that act unappealing. I also find the idea of licking a providers ass unappealing. Some people like it. That is why the stippers were doing it in the first place. Its still not anyone's place to call either act "uncivilized".

There is a huge difference between expressing dislike or lack of intesrest in a behavior vs. questioning the humanity of those who practice it.

Every sex show does not have to conform to your personal cultural standards. It would be boring as hell if everything out there was the same.

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs


Maybe you could hook up with the Bossman.

However, if I remember the discussion on the Yahoo board correctly the major complaint was that it would be too expensive.

BTW, doesn't NJ Exotics already throw those kind of parties?


well considering the average booty girl charges anywhere from $50-$100 for a 10 - 15 minute VIP, which for the most part consistes of only a CBJ (for $50-$75 )or a stand up fuck ($75-$100) in a broom closet or a bathroom compared to a full hour of GFE service in the privacy of a hotel room or a private apt with (on average) a higher calibur of girl for around 200-300 (average).... which is the better deal?

i personally don't see the "great buy" at these booty parties which is why i usually only grab a few lap dances and revel in the atmosphere. half the time i'll leave and go visit a patricia or a marina for (200 or 250) and a way better bang for the buck than i ever could get at any booty party. there are those very few exceptions where i'll get a number from one of the hotter girls there and attempt a private hook up at a later date..... but even
thats a rarity.

as for the NJE parties... they are nothing like a booty events..... no one dollar lap dances, no music or atmosphere and it's usually a pretty cramped scene since it's all in one small room or connecting rooms at a ho-jo instead of the clubs or large hotel suites that big D rents out in manhattan. although the NJE type event is better if you choose to go the VIP route... at least they reserve some private rooms across the hall and book you full hrs or half hrs alone with a girl, so you're not sharing a bed with three other guys and girls sitting there getting blown at the same time. their costs (at least at the two i was at) are very simmilar to those booty parties and they have a different selection. however.... although the botty parties are primarially black or hispanic girls, there is a much better selection to choose from than at the NJE parties.

[justlooking]

Oz, what I think you've missed is that most of the guys in the forum where you proposed your Brazilian party -- and, by extension, a lot of guys who go to lockdowns -- won't pay more than $100 for an orgasm. As a matter of choice. They don't care whether they fuck standing up and they certainly don't care about getting GFE service. (This isn't a criticism, just a description.) That's why they go to lockdowns and cheaper strip clubs but not Julie's. So OF COURSE they were upset when you proposed a party where sex would cost $300. That just isn't what they do.

[justlooking]

(And BTW, I think that if you tried to run something like that off UG, given the current climate, you'd be endangering both yourself and the site.)

[Ozzy]

i wasn't intending on running one of those events. i don't think i could pull it off nor would i want to even try or be involved with the running of one, thats way i'd prefer to leave it up to those guys who promote them. at the time i knew some girls who were doing something similar but they weren't running those parties. guys were renting out hotel suites and inviting them in more or less a bachelor party type atmosphere.


and i know that some guys don't want to pay more than $100 for an orgasm... but if they visit two or three different ladies over the course of a night and have three orgasms, than it basically comes out to the same $300 not to mention the assort lap dance and freak show tips as well as drinks.... (3 O's = $300).

(assuming you would get two or three pops at julies or whatever mid level incall or escort you visit for the price of the hour)

[justlooking]

But they would say that it's precisely because of the variety (the chance to get lapdances with a whole host of women and VIPs with two or three) (I wonder, do those guys do two or three VIPs per party? They may not.) that they like strip clubs and lockdowns more than brothels.

And they'd say the entertainment -- the music, the lapdances, the fruit shows -- is something important to them that's unavailable in brothels.

[elliot16]

Why should one have to choose between going to lockdown parties and having sex with one, two, or three different women and spending an hour or multiple hrs with an Indy who gives GFE? I don't think they are mutually exclusive in the least. They are 2 very different forms of entertainment which may each have their appeal at different times depending on the desires and needs of the man in question.

Several guys have voiced the idea that a great looking girl with decent technique is fine for a single play but that one needs more than that to make an LP. Well, these events offer the opportunity of having a series of single plays. If you want just a BJ, you pay for just a BJ. If you want more, you pay for more. Additionally, one gets to sample with little financial risk should the performance not match the quality of the woman's appearance.

Finally, should one desire doubles, then that can probably be had for anywhere from 160-200. Hell, it's even possible to try triples if one were so adventurous and for less than what it would cost for the average one hr rate of a manhattan indy. Where else can one experiment in fulfilling that fantasy at a comparable cost?

I agree with Oz that the main drawback is the lack of privacy at some of these events and that both the NJE and ****** events were superior in that they offered the privacy of a hotel room for the one on one play. The sacrifice is in the variety and number of girls to choose from.

However, if you know that there are at least 2 girls who you would want to see then these events are well worth it. At a recent Big D event a private room with a locked door was available and was a big improvement over large rooms with multiple seats and couches. This easily turned 15 min VIPs into 1/2 hr and as such were a better value to the customer.

[justlooking]

You and Ozzy and I don't have to choose.

What I'm saying is, these guys DO choose. Why, I have no idea. (But apparently Ozzy still has some scars from it, or else he wouldn't have brought it up.)

[elliot16]

Well, if you follow the boards, many of the guys like the fantasy of having sex with strippers as opposed to seeing prostitutes. Although the line is very thin if not non-existent in this venue, they maintain a perceived difference. In their minds still lingers some small doubt as to whether they will get an 8 or 10 mileage dance from these girls. I guess it's an easier and less expensive way of star-fucking than goint to a strip club and finding a girl who you could bring home....for the right price.

[Ozzy]

i don't have any scars from it. and i really didn't mean to bring it up here, i was just commenting on your statementt that if someone were able to put together a white version of one of those lockdowns, he'd make a mint. when i offered up that idea, it was shot down for... (as you stated above)... being too expensive.

now if someone can put together a white version or even a latina/brazilian version for those same prices than perhaps he would make a mint.

if not.... he'd probably have to find another source of clients other than the yahoo board.



and as elliot said about the last big D event... it was very well done although on a much smaller scale. too bad i didn't take advantage of the private rooms for once.... but we spent a little too much time deciding where to eat.... next time we'll pick the restaurant make reservations before hand.

[elliot16]

Oz,

Appetizer (at Big D's), main course (at the Restaurant), then desert (at Big D's). Everything proportional and in it's right place...that's how life was meant to be.

[elliot16]

Oz,

As you had mentioned when we discussed this before, the secret to making your concept work is to do it on a somewhat smaller scale in a place which would afford more privacy and at a slightly increased price. This would then be a midground between a lockdown and a brothel. It could also fly at a much more expensive and more exclusive level as well.

Some of the advantage over a brothel would be that the women would be independants and would not be paying a 50% cut to the house and so would not need to do the volume business they might have to in a house. Many guys would be more willing to spend a bit more cash for a more intimate setting and a better quality of woman (offering looks and more social skills). And the party atmosphere is nice, because you get the chance to talk and flirt and get a sense how attracted you are to the woman who you eventually choose.

[James1701]

Originally posted by me8989
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Depending on the speaker, “schvartze” may or may not have a negative connotation. If the speaker is a native Yiddish speaker, “schvartze” probably only means black.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I AM a native yiddish speaker!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
and those of an insular Yiddish community like the Hasids. Often when people are bilingual there is bleed through into English.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's me!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So if a native Yiddish speaker uses the word “schvartze” even when speaking English, it merely means black and has no negative connotation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank You!

How nice for you that someone justified your racism.

[pswope]

Through past life therapy I was able to channel Eugene's prior incarnation. Apparently he hung the same uncivilized" tag on Bird Parker and Thelonius Monk in the 50's as well as Chuck Berry and (my Gawd) Elvis.


You may therefor characterize him as a mumza .

EGene
Perhaps stating the vibe at the lockdown did not appeal to your sensibilities might have sufficed.

shalom
'swope,the Wigga.

[Eugene]

I am sure in your past life what ever creature it could have been, you were the same schmuck and idiot you are now!

[pswope]

good comeback. especially the thumbs down icon.


( b4 I became the 'schmuck' I am today, I was a frog).





ps- Did you run Bob Abrams,Senate campaign vs D'Amato?

[Eugene]

Only a schmuck and an idiot could have equated in his tiny frog's brain a stripper with a cucumber in her anus to Elvis, Chuck Berry and Bird Parker! But at least you've admitted that you are a "SCHMUCK'!

[pswope]

....I'm sure that we all would agree that having a de facto slave hold your dick,while one urinates or getting a bj without seeing the woman's face is the sine qua non of a civilized gent.

oui ou nyet?


Eugene
Silver

Registered: Jun 2002
Location:
Posts: 106
Daengman.
So you do have a chance to see who ever is doing the BJ? I understand that you probably can chose a girl for that while she is dancing? Please clarify this a little more. The associations with boys instead of gilrs is clearly not helping. (at least in my case). Also about the "no hands" service, what will she do for you exactly in the sexual aspect? (in the restaurant?)
Moses, sorry it took me that long to understand the point you were trying to make. Thanks for warning, though I was not really planning on any tours anyway.

[pswope]

every civilized man(particuliary wordly hobbyists) lacks the time to read waht is going on in the world :

Eugene
Silver

Registered: Jun 2002
Location:
Posts: 106
Rufus.
Still not getting it. How would you know something like that?
And also what did you mean about the "white slave trade" in Eastern Europe? I was born in Eastern Europe. Where do you get all these nonsense?


From this month's Vanity Fair @p. 112 : and countless news reports

"Every year, hundreds of thousands of desperate women from Eastern Europe and Central Asia are sold into a violent, Mafia-controlled life of prostitution, many ending up in the brothels of postwar Kosovo, a new hub of the sexual underworld. Following the trail of one young woman, Sebastian Junger discovers how cruel the trap can be. Photographs by Teun Voeten."
( I guess you were to be being disgusted by women using fruit in their orifices to get the 411 on this insignificant issue)


genie
If you're the paragon of a civilized man, than I prefer to be a frog brained schmuck.

smoochies.

[Eugene]

What I really like about you that by the end of your post you still want to say that you "prefer to be a frog brain schmuck"! Don't worry you still are, and most probably always will be.
So you are against the sexual slavery of the Asian and the East European women, (who is for it?), I imagene you never had an experience with an Asian or a Russian provider, and all the other hobbyists are participating in the crime! A frog's brain is a frog's brain! Please concentrate and come up with something a little better for the next exchange, you obviously have nothing else to do, but to collect my old posts!

[pswope]

Genie

Since in addition to being a thinly veiled racist (ergo the use of the term 'civilized' in relationship to the booty girls), your posts lack any substance standing behind your insipid pov's, and (most egregiously),you utterly lack both a sense of humor as well as any self awareness(or ability to detect sarcasm/irony),I will follow my usual self-injunction about responding to twits and hereinafter ignore you.


croak croak.

[Eugene]

So following your frog's logic of me not being able to understand you wit (actually there is nothing to understand, YOU ARE JUST AN IDIOT who has a dictionary at hand!) I see you are surrenderring! Or Popeye, you might look for another identity (I can suggest "SCHMUCK") AND TRY ONE MORE TIME to show your "wit".
I also think that your expressions like "booty" and the fact that you associate almost everything with racism, clearly show that you have lots of issues on that subject! But do not despare, though you will always stay a loser and an idiot, I am sure that there is some medication that perhaps will help!
Till later, when you come up with another identity! (frog-brain?)

[Space]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs


What you guys don't understand is that the promoters don't control the music. The DANCERS pick the music often bringing their own CD's. If you're dealing with a 20 yo urban dancer population, then hip hop is the order of the day. The upside of this is that while you may not like the music, the girls do and thus put on a much better show. What happens in the mainstream clubs is that for the most part, the stage show sucks cause the dancers hate what the DJ is playing. In most clubs where there are house limitations in the music the most you get is dancers walking around on stage.

This might be an unfair generalization, but from what I've seen ...

The dancers at all strip joints have lousy taste in music.

And I think only part of that is generation gapping. Yes, I'm in my mid 30s and they're in their early 20s. But there is plenty of current music that I do like -- and I mean current music that rocks one way or another. I'm not talking VH1 crap. It's just not what the girls get into.

So when I find a girl who does share my tastes in music, me and the contents of my wallet are hers. :)

[Space]

Originally posted by skagen
I still don't see what the cucumber and apple thing has to do with civilization.

One of the biggest attractions for British and Australian tourists in Thailand is the sex shows with the women doing all sorts of stuff with their pussy and insertin things in there.


I do find that kind of performance uncivilized, and as someone else on this thread put it "bordering on the sideshow." And though I'm a member of the aging Lollapalooza demographic, I find the entire sideshow vibe unsettling, uncivilized, unpleasant and disturbing.

And as P.T. Barnum, Dead White Guy, was the inventor of the sideshow this has nothing to do with race or cultural background. It's yucky whoever's running the ticketbooth.

But then, I never saw the appeal of Jerry Springer. Maybe I'm a prude.


The idea is that they are demonstrating how adept they are with the muscles in there. Hey, some guys actually like women who can do something with their pussy other than have you jackhammer them. Maybe not in suburban America, but other peope do in this world.

I just think there's a good reason you're told to close your mouth when it's full of food.

And that same thinking applies to one's crotch.

[Escort_King]

Originally posted by Eugene
How do you know that the promoters are blacks doing it only for blacks? Did you see a sign "for blacks only"?
Did they consult you? Don't you think you overestimate yourself?
If you haven't noticed before, money is green and not black or white. The promoters try to move to a better location (if you noticed?) and are trying to attract more paying people regardless of their color, this is quite obvious. I am sure they have just forgot to ask your permission.

Well put E... I have never had a problem at any of these type of events... it all about the money... have had a few over who's wallet is thicker... financial cock waving... but hey if it gets attention and service why do we work for it in the first place!!!

[Space]

Originally posted by elliot16
Oz,

As you had mentioned when we discussed this before, the secret to making your concept work is to do it on a somewhat smaller scale in a place which would afford more privacy and at a slightly increased price. This would then be a midground between a lockdown and a brothel. It could also fly at a much more expensive and more exclusive level as well.

Some of the advantage over a brothel would be that the women would be independants and would not be paying a 50% cut to the house and so would not need to do the volume business they might have to in a house. Many guys would be more willing to spend a bit more cash for a more intimate setting and a better quality of woman (offering looks and more social skills). And the party atmosphere is nice, because you get the chance to talk and flirt and get a sense how attracted you are to the woman who you eventually choose.

You're talking about the plot to the film "Risky Business."

And an apt title it is too.

[Slinky Bender]

Originally posted by Space

But then, I never saw the appeal of Jerry Springer..

So what are you doing here ?

[elliot16]

All of this talk about what is civilized and uncivilized and the racial connotations of that term when used in this particular context has driven me to Webster's to clarify the meaning of the word.

Uncivilized

1) not civilized; barbarous with the word civilized defined as:

a) to cause to develop out of a primitive state

b) to bring to a rationally ordered stage of cultural
development

c) educate; refine

d) Socialize


2) Remote from settled areas; wild




The meaning of the word and part of it's offensiveness in this context has to do with an unstated comparison of "advanced" European society with "primitive" African tribal society and by inference African American culture. But when one looks at the behaviors in question it is easy to see that they have nothing to do with societal norms of any group in the world except those of the small sub-culture of what we call the hobby.

How can one discuss issues of civilization within the context of the hobby which by its very nature is anti-social and in essence uncivilized? Can anything be considered barbarous and uncivilized within a community where all sorts of sexual fantasies, fetishes, and rituals are sought after and paid for?

All behaviours which are encompassed in the hobby are by definition sexually and socially freaky and as such bear no reflection on standards of culture and civilization at large of any of the groups referenced above. For, despite our somewhat insular and elitest attitude, the hobby also includes homosexual, transexual, S & M, as well as all sorts of fetishistic behaviour none of which bears the slightest resemblance to the manners and behaviours of so-called polite society.

We, who live in glass houses, should be careful how we characterize each others sexual freakiness, for where one might not find some behaviors either arousing or esthetically pleasing, it is self-deceptive to feel one's aberrance is more normal and as such more civilized.

[Slinky Bender]

Remember the Japanese word for white people, as well as the etymology of "Barbarian".

[Eugene]

First of all when I made that comment I did not know if the cucumber stripper even was black, and I still do not know that. Whoever saw the show will tell. If the word CIVILIZED OR UNCIVILIZED is the wrong word to use in that particular situation, guys what will be the right word? I invite everybody to give his word, describing that act. I did ask Skagen, he did not answer what that word should be, he just thinks it's not proper to critisize that performance because someone (not him!) likes it.
SO, GIVE ME ANOTHER WORD! HOPEFULLY MORE POLITICALLY CORRECT.

[elliot16]

SB,

I assume you're referring to the Barbary Coast of Africa? Please clarify your Japanese reference, I am unfamiliar with it.


Eugene,

Not an attempt to slam you or Space, just looking at the associations which the word has within this context. It isn't a matter of political correctness. Say what you like, how you like to say it, but realize that words may conjure up different meanings and connotations to different people. I found the description of that act freaky and repulsive mostly from an aesthetic rather than a social viewpoint. But, if guys liked watching it and the girl found pleasure or profit in it the who am I to judge?

[Eugene]

Thanks, you are the first one giving your description.
"Freaky and repulsive", at least to me sounds more insulting than what I've said. It's a matter of opinion of course. Suppose that stripper was white, then was there any racial connotation in the words "civilized" or "uncivilized"?

[elliot16]

You're welcome. If it was a white sponsored lockdown with a white stripper doing the same thing, then no. Different context...different meaning. However, I still think that my descriptions either as bordering on the sideshow or freaky and repulsive would be more apt than uncivilzed.

[elliot16]

Oh, and let me clarify, my reference to freaky and repulsive had less to do with the cucumber and more to do with the applesauce.

[Eugene]

But I still do not know if that stripper was black. It's somehow just the assumption that was made by you and also quite a few other guys. I hadn't been there, I was just commenting on the review that I was reading. The guy who was describing that, did not specify the strippers ethnicity.
I still think that regardless of whether she was black, white or whatever, I used the right word.
I am glad that you gave your opinion, and am very curious to see the other descriptions, especially from someone who actually has seen it.

[elliot16]

It is exceedingly rare to see a white stripper at these parties. While I am no expert in the matter, at the ones I attended the majority of the women were African American with a small percentage of Hispanic woman. I have not seen one white woman at the ones I've been to.

[Eugene]

The guy whose review I read did mention that there were two white girls and two oriental girls as well as a number of black girls.
So we can't really presume that the cucumber streeper was necesserily black?
So far by the way, as you see, I have not heard from any other guys.

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by slinkybender
Remember the Japanese word for white people, as well as the etymology of "Barbarian".

"Gaijin" kinda reminds me of "schvartse" it depends who says it and to whom, and in what context.

"Barbarian" has always meant "uncivilized" dating back to ancient Greece referring to those who don't speak the language correctly. Later, the Romans piled more negative connotation on to it, still keeping to that "uncivilized" vein. It has NOTHING to do with the Barbary Coast.

[nycstripclubs]

"Freak Show" is excatly the right word for Destiny's act (she's black BTW). The most fun I had actually, was watching the stripper who was sitting in my lap react to it. She couldn't quite believe her eyes, it was disgusting, and she wanted to look away, she freaked cause she was rivited by the sight.

If any of you had been there you'd have had to watch. It's mesmerizing cause you just can't quite believe shes actually doing that, and its seems wrong on so many levels.

As for it being "uncivilized", with all the stuff we see in the media every day, I'd call it edgy.

[pswope]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
"Freak Show" is excatly the right word for Destiny's act (she's black BTW).

If any of you had been there you'd have had to watch. It's mesmerizing cause you just can't quite believe shes actually doing that, and its seems wrong on so many levels.



JVJ

Kind of like the way I feel reading many threads on UG.




Elliot

Thanks for taking the time to articulate the point I was trying to make without rancor( I bet you print your 'scrips clearly ;~).

[justlooking]

Elliot got it right. The problem with "uncivilized" in this context is that once you're talking about commercial sex, EVERYTHING is nasty and beyond the bounds of acceptable conduct (even kissing and cuddling). So to call what YOU don't like "uncivilized" just sounds smug and hypocritical.

I mean Eugene, I'm not saying this to start a fight, but to me, getting a blow job under the table from a woman you can't see is a lot more offensive than watching a sexual freakshow act. The way I see it, we're ALL bozos on this bus.

[Rufus Moses]

hmmmm....climate control...tropical paradise?!.....

[Eugene]

Go reread what Daengman has posted about those BJs. When you are "just looking" at the posts, you are not by any chance JUST DRUNK? I was asking him how a guy could see and chose a BJ girl before he'd get his BJ. So, as for being a "bozo on this bus" speak about yourself and not the other hobbyists!

[justlooking]

OK. Sorry there, Eugene.

Everybody's participation in commercial sex is nasty and unaccepted EXCEPT YOURS. Feel better, Bozo?

And you're certainly right that there's nothing anyone could possibly question about getting a blow job under the table from a woman you can't see while you're watching other women strip, IF you get to see her and pick her out beforehand. Absolutely.

If you were any stupider and more uncomprehending, you'd be comical. (Which, regrettably for the board, you aren't now.)

I personally don't think your patently unfounded arrogance could ever be funny, though, but that's just my taste. For all I know, others already find it hilarious.

[Eugene]

You convinced me, you are not "just drunk" you are "just stupid"!
Also, I don't give a fuck about what a loser like you thinks anyway!

[Rufus Moses]

Eugene...if your IQ hits 100...SELL!

[SkellyChamp]

What is hilarious is that someone looking at this 4 page thread for the first time to find out about the party would see one whole page devoted to the use of the Yiddish word "schvartze" and 2 1/2 pages devoted to the correct usage of the word "civilized."

For what it's worth (which I can assure you is not much) for those of us who grew up in households where Yiddish was spoken (the only Jewish words my paternal grandmother knew were "eat", "skinny" and "take some home") the word schvartze initially had no negative connotation. Unfortunately, its the perception that matters and to the world in general its meaning is now roughly equivalent to nigger (now everyone calm down)and as such is verboten.

As to the use of the word civilized I am amazed (and appalled) that the use of the word could generate so much verbiage and bad blood. I can understand a message or two that it was a NOT ACCURATE word, but I certainly understand WHAT he meant and didn't find or believe anything insulting or deragatory was meant by it.

[SkellyChamp]

PS - I don't find hobbying uncivilized either.

But I am a Bozo and damn proud of it lest I take myself too seriously.

[Eugene]

I am sure you are a genius! The coolest genius of the whore site.

[SkellyChamp]

Originally posted by Eugene
I am sure you are a genius! The coolest genius of the whore site.

Damn I always thought that was maxhardcore.

[Space]

Originally posted by slinkybender


So what are you doing here ?

Talking to other johns and ... whores, about ... whoring ... and uh ...

OK. Does this put me up on the stage, or down in the audience?

[Space]

Originally posted by Eugene

SO, GIVE ME ANOTHER WORD! HOPEFULLY MORE POLITICALLY CORRECT.

Eugene, I'm sorry but no. As I stated I do not think being uncivilized is constrained to any cultural background, nor do I think any culture is free of it. IMO, there are civilized and uncivilized members of every nationality, color, creed, religion and region. Nor do I think those who descended from white europeans define what "civilization" or being "civilized" is.

For you to say to me that my dislike of this kind of performance is race-based, you must therefore think that the show in question is somehow "typically" black, or somehow that way because the organizers are black. In my estimation, that makes you the one going by a racial stereotype. I do not see that kind of performance as "typical" of african americans, nor do I see it as somehow uniquely tied to something as trivial as skin color.

I do not buy into thinking "this is how black people behave naturally" -- though it sounds like you do. I think that this is how people behave when they're brought up that way. It has nothing at all to do with their ancenstral homeland, skin color, facial features or any of that stupid race nonsense.

I'm a liberal, but not so liberal I withold my opinion on the behavior of everyone else who didn't grow up in my neighborhood. Hell, some guys who grew up in my neighborhood would like that sort of show. And I'd call them "uncivilized" in this context just as freely.

[elliot16]

Pswope,

Sorry, to say that you're wrong. I am unfortunately one of the graphically challenged

[elliot16]

Space,

Not sure if you're addressing your comments to Eugene or to my response but for a man who prides himself on his abilities of communication and his sense of the subtleties of inferred meaning within the context of a discussion I'm sorry to say that you've missed the boat on this one.

[Slinky Bender]

Too much Humpty Dumpty-ism.

[Space]

Originally posted by elliot16
Space,

Not sure if you're addressing your comments to Eugene or to my response but for a man who prides himself on his abilities of communication and his sense of the subtleties of inferred meaning within the context of a discussion I'm sorry to say that you've missed the boat on this one.

Oop, see what you mean. This is what happens when you read too fast and are too quick to show off your sophistication. Thanks for the catch.

[Eugene]

Please reread my posts. You are actually in total agreement with my point of view. There was a lot of stuff posted by others, so you've got confused. I called it "uncivilized" not knowing at that moment the ethnicity of that stripper. But there was an immidiate conditional response by a few "to stop racism" so they all jumped, assuming of course that the stipper was black, that is what really racist!
Actually their response is very patronizing towards the black people, who hardly need a bunch of want to be intellectuals- whoremungers to defend them. But the defenders will never understand that, because they are just conditioned that way and most probably have some racial issues themselves. Otherwise, why would they overcompensate like that?
I am being tired of the whole bs. So I am going away to Canada for the weekend to do some actual hobbying among other things!
They also don't realize that my Dominican girlfriend is not white.
But as I've said to justlooking (I call him "juststupid) I do not give a fuck about what they think!

[skagen]

Come on! Dominican girlfriend? So what, Eugene? Justin Volpe girlfriend is black - that didn't seem affect his behaviour much. Slaveowners were known to own women who were for all intents and purposes, their wives. Serbs practiced ethnic hate by raping Bosnian women, thus defiling them - AND resulting in mixed-origin children for these same ethnic zealots.

Men (white, black, red, blue ,whatever) have proven over history that they're perfectly willing to stick their dick in ANYONE, even a woman from a group who they regard as uncivilized or even sub-human.

Not saying that that statement above means anthing about you one way or another, Eugene. But enough of the "my best friends are black/minority" story. That has absolutely nothing to do with anything - for or against your argument.

Better to stick to the discussion instead of falling back on these meaningless cliches...

[Flounder]

Originally posted by skagen
Justin Volpe's girlfriend is black

When I saw her picture, I was pretty sure that she's a girl I worked with in Manhattan.

[Eugene]

Firstly Toronto is an absolutely wonderful place for hobbying. And secondly,
skagen. What argument? I don't give a fuck either about your "argument" or your point of view!