Threatening Accusations!

[Carl M]

Any suggestions when a provider makes false accusations against you, what recourse do you have to counter this.

[Ezrlove]

none

[Phantom]

.

[Edited by Phantom on 08-06-2001 at 05:11 PM]

[TuckernotSucker]

Depends on who the provider is. Some are notorious talkers. Some are unstable and prone to false accusations. Others are truthful. Let them make the accusations then respond as you see fit. Do not rant and rave, just state your case and let it go at that.

[Ozzy]

i've had my share....and one very recently, i don't let it bother me and hope the people involved....never meet up with me.



:cool:

[littleguy]

Not too sure what, if anything, you CAN do.

In the not too distant past, I learned, by way of a hobbyist no less, that a provider said something about me that was inaccurate and it was apparently corroborated by a 2nd lady.

When I confronted the hobbyist, of course he wouldn't tell me who she/they were, so I don't even know if I've ever seen her/them, never mind being able to confront them.

Now, perhaps they were inaccurate with the way they worded what they said to him. Perhaps he was inaccurate the way he worded what he said to me. Don't really know, but bottom line was, what he said to me was not correct.

After more than 1 or 2 angry e-mails, it was clear he was not about to relent or give up some names so I had no choice but to simply let it drop.

[rogue]

well-I have been there too-and this provider told a second provider(who I had planned on seeing),something about me that wasn't true.This provider has been known to lie to keep business out of other providers hands,mouths and pocketbooks-regardless I have chosen not to see the second provider and to date haven't.Why? Because even though I would have to see her,and "prove"-or disprove actually-it will always be in the back of her mind-which would take away from the session

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Carl M
Any suggestions when a provider makes false accusations against you, what recourse do you have to counter this.

my brother, Carl M:

1. if you are (more or less) innocent (eg, Whittaker Chambers, Clarence Thomas): prompt, public (and polite) denial of the charges.

arrogantly maintaining that you will not dignify the charges by responding to them is generally disasterous (eg, John D. Rockefeller Sr, Alfred Dreyfus, and (much more recently) Bill Bradley). you cannot defeat dishonest charges with honest silence.

2. if you are (more or less) guilty, it gets much trickier. unless you're as sharp as Bill Clinton (and you're *certain* you didn't leave a uniquely identifying 'stain'), it's best to just clam up.

one of the more difficult tasks of a criminal defense attorney is to convince his/her client not to take the stand. the negative inference that will be drawn from silence is not nearly as problematic as having to keep publicly contradicting yourself and/or pile on one implausible alibi after another (eg, Alger Hiss, or, "it depends on what the meaning of 'is' is").

if complete silence becomes impractical, the classic defense is to blame the character of the accuser (eg, Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Roy Cohn, Ken Starr) and/or the victim.

thus, in the parable of the Garden of ****, Adam blamed both his accuser (the Lord) and the victim (Eve) for his wrongdoing, by saying, in effect: ~i did it because of the *woman* that *You* gave me~

{chuckling} well, yeah.



[Edited by guy catelli on 04-16-2001 at 08:54 PM]

[LIDAWN]

ok what is going on here? who may i ask is saying what i feel so out of the loop on this..?
dawn
http://www.cajuncumfort..

[rogue]

I don't think Carl was aiming at any one person,just from past experiences-of course I am sure he(and I..as could you and most on the board )could point a few fingers at providers we have known who don't play quite fairly,and spread dirty little lies and things to slant the market a little..how many things have you heard about "clients" that were not true when you finally saw them...yes,girls tell secrets to each other in the business-but when you start spreading little stories...well,you know..I could site past examples,but why bother...kinda like the "ratings" on ebay-they are really worthless in reality--I asked a provider once,after seeing her a few times,if she travelled to Greece-she got all bent out of shape,cancelled our appointment and then spread a dirty little rumour about me to another provider she knew I saw AND one she knew I was going to see eventually...you have to trust the girls in the business to give fellow sisters then inside scoop,especially when we use providers as references for other providers-but it's a bad double edged sword in the wrong hands--rogue

[Ozzy]

someone forgot to take their thorozine.

[guy catelli]

ref: http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=551 and

http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=628

does anyone know, or have reason to believe, that all 3 of these threads refer to the same client?

[Carl M]

Thanks for your advice fellows, things I hope have been resolved!

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Carl M
Thanks for your advice fellows, things I hope have been resolved! that's good news, my brother!

could you email me with her name? this sounds like an escort i'd like to avoid.

[Ozzy]

GC......

it's at least two different clients and perhaps three.

[Carl M]

To protect the innocent involved I will not make a disclosure- this matter is officially over!

[Ozzy]

:cool:

[Edited by Ozzy on 04-17-2001 at 02:08 PM]

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Hotpuppy
I think that if someone asks a reasonable question, one can either respond with a reasonable answer or decline. To obfuscate with disingenuous replies only serves to further complicate the issue. { http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=8434#post8434 }i couldn't agree more.Originally posted by Carl M
To protect the innocent involved I will not make a disclosure ....my brother Carl M, there is no way an 'innocent' person would be hurt by your emailing me the name of the *guilty* party.

i can only conclude that both of you have something to hide; and, therefore, as a mutual accomodation, have agreed to mutual silence. while that outcome may be satisfactory to both of *you*, it leaves the *rest of us* out in the cold -- and at continued risk.

you say that it's an escort that is making false charges against you. but, as a matter of fact, the charges i have been reading against you haven't come from escorts, they've come from *clients*.

more than just one or two clients have explicitly or implicitly made charges against you on this board -- going back *months*. charges have also been made on the *** board.

i can see the economic logic of an escort making false charges to another *escort* in order to keep a favored escort to herself -- or to punish a client who wrote a bad review of her. but, for an escort to make false charges about a client (who, to all appearances, writes *only positive* reviews) to other *clients* just doesn't make any sense at all.

i am very disappointed. personally, i bought into your whole 'nice guy' bit. it's not the first time (or, no doubt, the last) that i've misplaced my trust in a client. after all, i *want* to believe the best about other clients -- because *i'm* a client too.Originally posted by Carl M .... this matter is officially over!well, let's put it this way: if the ugly and menacing harrassment of half a dozen or so independent escorts that's been taking place on the *** board is simultaneously "officially over", that would constitute a 'coincidence' that would raise the eyebrow of even the most rigorous skeptic.

[Edited by guy catelli on 04-17-2001 at 07:28 PM]

[Hotpuppy]

Originally posted by guy catelli
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hotpuppy
[B]I think that if someone asks a reasonable question, one can either respond with a reasonable answer or decline. To obfuscate with disingenuous replies only serves to further complicate the issue. { http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=8434#post8434 }

GC and anyone else,
I dont mind being quoted but for the sake of accuracy, I am not involved( at least until now) in this thread, and the above quote is from another thread, and a different issue as the URL will show( thanks GC, Im assuming it was your intention to illustrate this).
Take care, HP

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Hotpuppy ..... GC, Im assuming it was your intention to illustrate this).HP, thank you for your understanding that in posting the url to the original context of your quote, it most certainly is my intention to disassociate your post from any intent on your part to take a position on the issue raised by this thread.

as you know, certain quotes so succinctly summarize universal truths that they are widely repeated in a variety of contexts. "what goes around comes around," is one such example.

[Assman]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by guy catelli


i can only conclude that both of you have something to hide; and, therefore, as a mutual accomodation, have agreed to mutual silence. while that outcome may be satisfactory to both of *you*, it leaves the *rest of us* out in the cold -- and at continued risk.

You are making an unfounded conclusion about two people when you have only heard from one....Carl M. You do not know who the other person is that allegedly made an untrue allegation about Carl. Carl wants to stop this thread for his own reasons. Neither you nor I or anyone else really knows if he reached a satisfactory conclusion. You will only know that if you confirm it with his accuser. There have been several people, as you stated, that have made accusations concerning Carl and his attempts to receive discounts from providers. As the old saying goes, if it looks like a Duck, walks like a Duck and quacks like a Duck......it is a Duck. BYOT

[Edited by Assman on 04-18-2001 at 08:31 PM]

[Tankcommander]

and for his reasons, he is not disclosing...

I do not particularly like or dislike Catelli, especially after the flame wars we have had. However, I respect him for his integrity and that his words are NEVER without reasonable cause.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Tankcommander
and for his reasons, he is not disclosing...i must disagree with TC's premise, as much as i very much appreciate his stated conclusion that i don't say anything without good reasons to do so.

but, lest there be any ambiguity in the matter, i do not know the particulars of this case.

i wish that escorts would be more forthcoming with clients about the identity and m.o. of 'bad clients'. crimes are not merely private matters between the parties, as much as the parties themselves, each for their own reasons, might wish this were the case. everyone is at risk. the social fabric itself is at risk.

that's why every criminal case ever brought in any jurisdiction, anywhere in the world, has been captioned along the lines of: "The People vs. {whomever}." that 'the People', collectively, have been harmed by the commission of a crime is simply inherent in the very meaning of 'civilization'.

for business and safety reasons, escorts chose to bite their tongue rather than be subjected to even greater harm. i can't blame them for this -- it's their call. however, as the outgrowth of another recent incident, an escort voiced strong disapproval on this board about clients who quickly return to speculating about breast composition, etc, in the aftermath of a tragic incident.

but, absent information from the escorts themselves, there isn't much more that clients can do but shake their heads and say ~what a shame~ and then return to the topic at hand.

so, perforce, i base my conclusions on the same evidence available to one and all -- what's posted on the boards.

the most persuasive evidence, as a matter of common sense, is spontaneous and uncoerced confession -- "the Queen of proofs".

the next most persuasive evidence is the accused's refusal to deny the charges. {when an uneducated person whose name ends in a vowel 'pleads the Fifth', does anyone but a fool believe he is doing so for innocent reasons?}

the next most persuasive evidence is a denial that doesn't add up.

but, as i have stated many times, here and elsewhere, even the fishiest of 'fish stories' will win more converts than blank silence or complete evasion.

[Carl M]

I hate to bring this up. But its started again. I received a threatening call at my job accusing me of something I did not do. Similar to what Dawn has gone through! See a pattern here!

[RoosterC74]

Carl,

Isn't it a true shame that people have to act in such a negative manner.

[Tankcommander]

This is beginning to get annoying...
Stop insinuating and start showing some proof. I know that it's severely annoying for this to take place, but it's pretty annoying for these innuendos to start flying around.

Remember the saying... "not everyone who shits on you is your enemy"...well, I'm telling you this cause you're beginning to stretch your credibility... start anteing up some proof or some solid statements buddy if you can't, you got to keep these statements on the "down low".

Do it by e-mail if you have to. I've been getting calls from people asking what the hell you're talking about because we're buddies.

[Ozzy]

carl.....

give them the proof so they'll shut up and stop defending her.....


then again, if you post it you're going to make a whole lot of people look awfully foolish

[Edited by ozzy on 08-06-2001 at 09:58 PM]

[Bill Furniture]

Carl, I wish you'd say who it was. Did they call themself? or have someone else do it?

SpiritOf93@aol.com

[Assman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ozzy
[B]carl.....

give them the proof so they'll shut up and stop defending her.....

From the posts I read, no one is defending a certain provider. Rather, Carl was asked to show some proof. This is not the first time Carl has said the same thing and then, he says it has been resolved. Well, if it happened again, it was not resolved. :eek:

[Zeus]

edited.

[Edited by Zeus on 08-07-2001 at 06:23 PM]

[Bill Furniture]

Zues, some of us just want to know if/when someone in our "community" is being threatened.

[sweetjay4u]

Guys! Instead of beating ourselves up, Why doesn't someone set up a rating system like Ebay has??

Where you can see #of positive experiences and negative experiences, reviews can be rated by who's making them. (i.e. Gold reviewers, Silver reviewers, and so on). Then you can have short responses.

It works great for Ebay why not have it here??

[Tankcommander]

I owe no allegiance to either parties. All I'm saying is that this should not have been brought up if there was no intention of bringing up proof.

This is the OZ tactic... He doesn't like me for bringing Catelli to one of the UG meetings. So, when I attempt to ask Carl who happens to be my buddy, for proof, (because several people asked me what Carl's deal was, and how credible he is), Oz chimes back with a indirect accusation that I defended her. I have not persecuted her, nor have I defended her. If there is undeniable proof, or even good circumstantial evidence, I will be the first to stand up and bitchslap guilty parties. However, there is not and thus, I refuse to believe. Very much like the incident between Catelli and EZ. I have not seen any proof either way and thus, I have never said nor posted anything negative about EZ.

Perhaps OZ wasn't even referring to me when he wrote about defending her, but as you see Zeus, it was not a far stretch for someone to automatically assume that he was, especially with the location of his post.

[Slinky Bender]

"Very much like the incident between Catelli and EZ. I have not seen any proof either way and thus, I have never said nor posted anything negative about EZ."

I understand your point there, but I have a question: Assuming your own postion ( that there is no conclusive proof either way ), how do you feel about someone who behaves not only as if there is conclusive proof, but has taken it upon himself to mount a campaign against the person who has no conclusive proof of guilt, including emailing people on both sides of the hobby making accusations, distorting facts ( or making them up ) and even posting what is tantamount to outing his "real name" ?????????????

You can't support someone who does such things and still claim to remain "neutral". While you don't have to "cut anyone off", if somone - even a buddy - engages in objectionable acts, you need to decry those acts. Otherwise, you can't engage in discussions such as this and wave the white flag acting like you are Switzlerland ( well you can, but in the end you will be found out just like they were ).

[wilt]

If you can keep your head,when all about you are losing theirs.........


(good post APM)

[Tankcommander]

So, what you're saying... is that...

Although I have no proof that Catelli is wrong, that I should align myself with EZ and condemn Catelli for what he's doing.

That makes no sense either.

I consider both Catelli and EZ to be my friends and it is unfortunate that they had their differences. I, due to the lack of proof on both sides, have stayed out of that fray. I tell Catelli all the time that it wasn't his place, and wasn't his problem. However, it is not my place to stop him, nor EZ, nor Carl, nor AY from what they do.

The difference here, is that I've met Alyssa once, and Carl M is a good friend. I support my friend, and I was one of his best supporters when he was accused of being "cookiecutter". I put in several hours of analysis on Carl's posting habits in order to provide proof of his innocence. However, I hesitate to blindly support my good friend's accusations without proof, very much like I cannot support Catelli's accusations without proof.

[Slinky Bender]

Sorry Tank, but here you are full of shit. You have all the "proof" you need that Catelli is wrong, since you know his actions are "wrong".

You know he has no proof of what he claims ( you said so yourself ), and you know he has done despicable things. I don't see you denying any of this.

You know I didn't say anything about "I should align myself with EZ", but you're throwing that in to obfuscate the real core of the issue. It is irrelevant what happened or did not happen with anyone else, especially since anything qwhich might be "known" is based on he said/she said hearsay. OTOH, you know what GC has done from your own first hand knowledge, and you know that these actions are wrong. So, you don't need to "align yourself" with anyone else to condemn actions which you know to be innapropropriate. Yet, you still refuse to do so. You can jump up and down all day long, claiming to be neutral, but failing to acknowledge a truth which is patently obvious is not neutrality, any more than turning your back, sticking your fingers in your ears, and humming loudly is ( like FDR did with the early stages of the Holocaust ) while some schoolyard bully is beating the shit out of some "98 pound weakling".

No one asked you to "take anyone's side". However, ignoring and/or failing to condemn actions which are clearly innapropriate is a form of consent/approval of those actions. If that's how you feel, why not simply come right out and say it ? Or would you rather continue to try and play both ends against the middle ????

[Ozzy]

tank....

you say that you "tell Catelli all the time that it wasn't his place, and wasn't his problem".

thats exactly the point. and not only wasn't it his place nor his problem....he was totally wrong in assuming there was a problem at all. if both of those parties involved came forward and admitted that they were both at fault and that it was two consenting adults....which i should add is only their business to begin with, then whats the problem. but it doesn't end there... then catelli claims that on top of all that, that two serious crimes were committed (rape& assault). that already is enough to banish him from any board. but he goes on....he mounts an e-mail campaign (thats still going on btw) against one of these persons involved and continues to slander him in private(i'll post those e-mails if you want). now if you can't see where catelli is wrong...then you're blind.

as for me not liking you because you brought catelli....

thats not entirely true. it's the way you and your friends accuse me of trying to bully john j and somehow take control of his invite list. i never told JJ who to or not to invite (only to be careful). then in yours and your friends own words, you said that it's JJ's list and that he should have final say over who's invited.......

WELL.......catelli was NOT invited, yet you brought him anyway, especially knowing he could have been in a hostile environment with SB (who booted him), myself (who argued with him), and EZ(who he took out this slanderous campaign on).

now while i'm ranting let me move on to alyssa. god damn great minds think alike.... i was thinking of switzerland all day but was away from a computer. but you came up to me at the LI party and said you were neutral.....well there is no such thing as neutral. you jumped on me when i first started on alyssa then jumped on during and now you jump on carl for the same thing...

now you say "If there is undeniable proof, or even good circumstantial evidence, I will be the first to stand up and bitch slap guilty parties"

well i hate to say this tank...but you should see an eye doctor or as slink already said..."you're full of shit" because you have seen what alyssa has written in the past. if not last year when she stated that bbfs/vd crap then last month when she did it again on ***...YOU READ IT, we all read it. then she comes here and threatens another girl ON THE BOARD! tell me you didn't see that one. it's still here.....because here on UG, the moderator doesn't delete or edit half her posts an hour later to protect her like they do on ***.

you say you need "undeniable proof, or even good circumstantial evidence"...well there it is. that was what i accused her of and you claimed that I had no proof. even if i show it to you, you blow it off and make excuses or change the subject. alyssa did what she did and so did catelli...but you still refuse to even comment on any of the proof, let alone try and refute it.


[Edited by ozzy on 08-07-2001 at 06:03 PM]

[LIDAWN]

can we all please let this business go..... it is killing the spirit of this board the true nature of the comaraderie we have been trying to build in this temple of UG>>>>

i am sorry i came back into the picture. it seems even posting has brought the enemies to the gates so to speak.. sigh......
thus causing me great anguish and turmoil. and carl please keep my name and my issues out of this post...
please.. i have enough trouble right now with out adding me into this mix in any way .. just come out and say who did what.. if you have the evidence to back it up.. use it or drop it because this is a dead horse we are all beating.. ( hence) it does no good unless all parties agree they disagree and move on with their own lives ( if that is even possible) what do you think ozzy? slinky? boys in the room? tucker? guy? EZ baby? anyone... bueller? any one?


i am asking you please leave me out of this ok...i need no more drama or trouble please....... pout
XXOO DAWN


[Edited by LIDAWN on 08-07-2001 at 11:47 PM]

[nj george]

this puppy was put to bed a long time ago. it is old news. the same stuff is being rehashed over and over with nothing significantly new or anything of real substance being added.

[Tankcommander]

Second of all, people only bring up Hitler when they haven't a real arguement left. it's shameful to desecrate the memory of the murder of 10 million people to win an arguement.
You owe me an apology for smearing me in such a way. And, the charges you're making against others have lost much of their credibility now that I see how recklessly you smear people with innuendo.

Three, what you have presented to me as proof, is only hearsay. When you say actions convict, they only convict under the assumption that the actor was wrong. You have no proof if he is right or wrong, thus you cannot judge the action.

Four, I only asked for proof of this most recent event...

what has happened here can be deomonstrated like this...

Prosecutor... "a man committed a crime"

Jury..."tell us who and show us evidence"

Prosecutor... "What, tell you?... and show you evidence, you should know already... you must be an accomplice of the criminal!!! Furthermore, you probably helped gas Jews..."

C'mon, all this and no proof.... who's really full of shit?





[Edited by Tankcommander on 08-08-2001 at 12:56 AM]

[Slinky Bender]

You really are totally full of it !!! You have seen it, and you've seen it plenty. Now you try to ignore it. I owe you an oppology ? I'm sorry, you don't deserve anything. Who is the guy who constantly goes around threatening to shoot people ? You are. And now you are all offended. Boo hoo, get a life. And learn to read while you are at it, since no one compared you to anyone committing attrocities ( actually reading the post would show a comparisson to a former President of the US ). Oh, but then you might have to actually answer some of the real issues being discussed, rather than act all offended.

You are choosing to stick your head in the sand now and say you have seen nothing. Now, when you are called on it, you pussy out and say "I only asked for proof of this most recent event... " What nonsense; that's totally non-responsive to the issue which I brought up, and I guess it's because you don't have a valid response to that issue. Do you deny any of the things which I stated ??? No ? I don't hear you denying them ???? I just hear a lot of whining, back pedaling, obfuscation, and bullshit. Well let's hear some direct answers to some direct questions - how about that, buddy ?

Did or did not your pal attempt to out someone on this board ???? Did your pal take it upon himself to undertake an email campaign against another poster based on spreading false accusations and dogma ? Does he continue to do so, even though both people who were actually there state that his version of the story is flawed ???? Did your pal take it upon himself to call what he thought was the home phone number of some guy who he thought might have comitted some "transgressions" ? Did he talk to who he thought was that person's wife/kids ????? Did it turn out that this was actually some innocent party ???? Has your pal consistently lobbied for the posting of people's personal info on public boards ??? ( interesting that he doesn't seem to practice what he preaches now that he has his own board, huh ???? ). You know, this is getting tiring, and you know what else ? DON"T BOTHER ANSWERING, because, frankly, I'm done with your BS. Go play one your friends board, and have fun pretending not to be one of the moderators there, and having conversations with yourself.

[Zeus]

.

[Edited by Zeus on 08-08-2001 at 06:27 AM]

[Carl M]

Im seriously thinking about packing it in or to become a dreaded lurker! There is just too much backstabbing and double crossing going on and I do not know who to trust anymore!

[Hotpuppy]

Have to agree about not knowing who to trust. Ive been gulity of trusting someone I didnt know at all and he screwed me. Have also been guilty of trusting someone that I had a reasonably long correspondence with,who became incensed when I declined to provide intimate details of a very personal date. So what to do? Keep my business to myself and be viewed as an information leach? Or only get involved in non- business threads( sure do love those "Best" anything threads). Or continue my participation just as it is. Time and events will tell. Meanwhile...
...take care HP

I have edited out a gratuitous remark which could be taken as an attack by that party. HP

[Edited by Hotpuppy on 08-08-2001 at 01:50 PM]

[rogue]

This is becoming very old,and very sad..I don't post much,and have been around this hobby and many boards for a long time-men-what's wrong with you guys? It seems the POP(POWER OF THE PUSSY) even in a financial setting has turned you guys a little soft headed..and you wonder why I am no fan of get togethers...ladies..you can't tell us anything,because naked men,as well as men behind a keyboard ,are very stupid and have big mouths..there is no discretion between to sexes when it comes to this business and hobby-I have spoken with many providers here on this board-and they tell me many things that they don't like about people,on both sides of the street,this board,and providers as well-THAT I KEEP TO MY SELF!
If somebody is a bad date,post it..if they are a bad client-post it-BUT FOR THE BUSINESS END REASON-not a personality thing-keep the politics of this,the personalities of hobbyists and providers out of this-we will find out on our own-then talk about it off list..just my opinon...I have been a long time believer in keeping too many details private..and yes,even though I am a friend of Carl's,I too have told him to keep his mouth closed on many occasions-just the facts-BUT..FOR him to want to leave the board,we lose a great source of information and connections to providers who are more receptive and at ease with a referal..lets all just get back to banging beaver....

[Hotpuppy]

Men+women+sex+money = ( fill in your own answer)

[SkellyChamp]

Divorce
Bankruptcy
My new Mercedes

[Slinky Bender]

Mixed emotions: Seeing your ex-wife drive off a cliff in your new Mercedes convertible.

[RoosterC74]

Guys,
One good sign, at least we have gone a few hours without any nasty comments on this thread. Please, for the sake of this Board-stop this insanity. I thought we were suppose to be helping each other. Am I wrong, or just going crazy?

[Carl M]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hotpuppy
Men+women+sex+money = ( fill in your own answer) [/QUOTE

The way I feel now the answer would be HARI KARI

[Hotpuppy]

Have a real cold one instead Carl!
take care HP( into the Frozen Margaritas)

[neversoft]

It seems to me that it is the gossippy, soap opera-ey, "I know something you don't," nature of these boards that make them so compelling. It is also what kills them. It was my understanding that (and I may be wrong, since I heard this through more back channel gossip) one of the reasons that this board came into it's own was as a reaction to the very same thing that was going on over on ***. Is history repeating itself here?

I agree with Rogue, et al: Any time one opts to share dirty little secrets out of school, expect them to be repeated...ALOT! Think before you speak. But then again, if we all kept EVERYTHING to ourselves, how often would we come to UG? Would the visit/post rate slow down as it seems to have since the new Mod(s) "cleaned up" ***? Very interesting paradox here.

[Carl M]

Originally posted by Hotpuppy
Have a real cold one instead Carl!
take care HP( into the Frozen Margaritas)

Don't get me started HP- 2 six packs of that frosted Canuck shit would be great now in this 105 degree heat!!!

[beep9]

Originally posted by RoosterC74


Guys,



One good sign, at least we have gone a few hours without any nasty comments on this thread. Please, for the sake of this Board-stop this insanity. I thought we were suppose to be helping each other. Am I wrong, or just going crazy?





No, Rooster. You're wrong, you stupid son of a bitch. Back when I was in Delta Force, we would have shoved you in an outhouse for this sort of crap, and then we would have walked back to the barracks. That's right, I said walked, you pansy. Uphill. Both ways.




Ummm, sorry. I think my lithium is wearing off :)

[carlk]

Especially the "both ways" part.

Maybe its in the air lately. Boards seem to self-combust. Seems time is better spent trimmin.

1 nasty post I follow -- and do <grin> One answer back, sure.

When you dudes get all testosteroned up in a 20 post-per-guy shitsling that always veers over toward "oh yeah, just meet me anywhere and Ill fuck you up!!!", sheesh.

I picture some small dainty guy showin up to throw hands with a *real* hard guy (none of the guys on this board measure up to that standard -- those who claim to are a sucker bet to be guys who cant hold it in the streets). so the hard guy dukes up and the dwarf skull pops him 2 from a .22 pistola.

fade to black

[Ozzy]

neversoft......

it's more a case of, some of ***'s posters coming here and doing what they did there.


and i didn't sayALL of ***'s posters, so relax tank...i didn't say your name, ok buddy? but most of the people I've had it out with on this board with the exception of my alter ego (wsb), have been regular trouble makers...aahhh, i mean posters on ***.


:)z

[Eye Won]

Hey,
Let's face it Carl, your not gonna pack it in and neither am I, shit like this is gonna happen and will happen regardless of the get-togethers or not. Im not getting involved with this one, but this will all blow over with time. The bottom line is... I aint going nowhere!!!!
Imperialone....Out!!!!!!

[Ozzy]

i'm not involved in this either...

and i'm outta here.



see you on the other side......






:cool: http://www.epiccenter.com/EpicCenter/clips/wav/973.wav

[Casper]

Well when tension surfaces it's ugly head, no better solution than a road trip to a sleezy strip joint. Maybe I'll run into some of you this weekend, not that I'll know anyone anyway, but what the hell. My road trip will most likely be WWW Saturday afternoon just to see what's going on with all the Media attention. If I get on TV I'll wave and and give UG a shout out!

Peace Out
C

P.S. I find even if someone confides in me either because they have a big mouth or because they feel I can be trusted, I will no way in hell repeat any of it to anyone, friend or no friend. This has kept me out of many messy situations (althought not totally fool proof).
Some people confide in others to start crap so I don't give them the satisfaction of using me as the catalyst.

[Edited by Casper on 08-08-2001 at 06:55 PM]

[Casper]

I've been here 7 years, the medications don't work, I hate this place etc etc etc ...... Just a little levity my fellow UG board members.

And I concur, stop the insanity as NOTHING is ever resolved via this medium.

SB can you close this thread ?

Peace Out
C

[littleguy]

WOW

[Ozzy]

so tank commander has a final statement....

here's the link and what he said.

btw notice that he is the forum owner and moderator of this board he posted this on and that guy catelli owns it.


:) heres the link.

http://network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=144002&messageid=997307065


:) and what he said.

Well, it seems that I've been banned from UG.
August 8 2001 at 10:44 AM
No score for this post Tank (login Tankcommander)
Forum Owner


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The entire thing started long before I started posting on Utopia, or *** for that matter. It seems that in a search for the truth, and waiting for evidence before aligning myself with one party of another made both parties assume I was with the other.

Slinkybender and Ozzy both sit and make accusations all day long, yet constantly, they refuse to divulge names… “someone feels guilty”, or “someone has something to hide”.

Recently, the continue to say that Catelli has continued his campaign, calling and e-mailing people about EZ… This may or may not be true, but I have seen no evidence of either. They say “do I have to post it to convince you?”… Yes! That’s what I’ve been getting at all along… that their “say-so” is not enough to convict. I have heard many stories from Ozzy, most of them consist of how important he is, and how much prostitutes really love him, but very few of his stories have been collaborated by testimony from victims themselves. Again, to him, his “say-so” is evidence while someone else’s is not.

The point is, Catelli’s action would have been wrong, only if you had proof that EZ did not do what he was accused of, and Ez would have been wrong if Catelli showed proof that EZ did what he was alleged to have done. Lacking that, you cannot judge either person’s actions.

Taking the Holocaust example… now knowing that It actually happened, we can say that FDR was wrong for sitting on his hand. Hindsight is 20/20. However, what if early in the war, FDR sacrificed thousands of men, to attack these work camps, caused a great rift in the Allied positions in Italy and North Africa, and had to pull back all aid to Russia in order to do this, and found out that these atrocities were not the case? The war would have been lost over several rumors. The point is that until you really know whether or not EZ drugged or assaulted anyone, you cannot say that Catelli was wrong. The only thing a righteous person can do is to stay neutral.

It also seems that they have the last shot, telling me to answer their allegations, knowing full well that they have banned me and cannot do so. I also know that I have done nothing but seek the truth, and they have smeared and slandered me as if I had personally done those things Alyssa and Catelli had been accused of. I know for a fact that I had not done those things and I know that I am straight and honorable. This can only mean, for me, that Slinky and Ozzy have no credibility. Seeking truth can only make me an accomplice to the truth, yet they accuse me of perpetuating lies.

That, and name calling… that’s all you can throw at me about now because you know you’re wrong.


:) now i'll respond and give him he god damn proof....


From :
guy catelli <gcatelli@yahoo.com>

To :
Ozzy <XXXXXXXX@hotmail.com>, slinkybender <XXXXXXXXXX@yahoo.com>

Subject :
FWD: for the record [was: it's no 'secret']

Date :
Sun, 22 Jul 2001 10:31:50 -0700 (PDT)



i'm not blaming you for being unpersuaded. and (as far as i know), you have
not blamed me because i *am* persuaded. fair enough.

what makes these predators (again, it's not *just* EZ) so cowardly, is not only
that they prey on women, but to top it off, they target women who have to keep
their mouth shut and/or publicly pretend that 'nothing happened' to avoid being
even more victimized through loss of a means of making a living, public
exposure to the civilian world, and possibly LE complications. even special
'sex crimes' units won't prosecute predators who prey on these women. so, of
course the women say (publicly) 'nothing happened'.

isn't 99% of what escorts say publicly exactly what *prospective* clients want
to hear? isn't that the *essence* of 'marketing'? (i don't know about your
job; but, i know that's the case where *i* work!)

here's the *public*, nonsecret, evidence:

'Princess Claudia' publicly 'fell on her sword' (ie, behaved in a way she knew
would get herself fired) because EZ had forced cunnilingus on her. it is quite
evident from *his own* review (even after he repeatedly edited it over the
course of a week). the review is *public*.

forcing cunnilingus on someone is a sex crime. *Vera* told me that this was
Claudia's complaint when i was still defending him. and, Vera got the story
from EZ himself.

[Vera, through her public attacks on my reputation for speaking truth, has
waived any privilege of confidentiality. an abused privilege is a waived
privilege -- and she publicly abused the privilege three times, before i posted
the truth about her. the whole matter (btw, i have seen Vera snort heroin with
my own eyes) would have stayed with the two of us (EZ and myself), if EZ hadn't
cynically manipulated Vera into publicly destroying herself. frankly, that's
when i decided EZ is not the case of a good man with the misfortune of having
an ugly compulsion; instead, he's an ugly person with a line of bs that he
doesn't believe himself.]

Claudia's (supposed) subsequent orgasm is no defense -- it was the defense EZ
gave Vera, which she of course didn't accept as a defense -- anymore than it
would be if any other sex crime victim (supposedly) had an orgasm. according
to Vera, this 'perfect gentleman' doesn't "understand" that you're not supposed
to force women to perform sex practices they don't want to perform!

then i learned (again, from Vera) that when EZ went out with Alyssa, she wound
up having an 'accident' that put her out of commission for 6 weeks. sure,
Alyssa praised him in public -- if she didn't, she'd have beeen publicly
crucified by anonymous posters for being 'Alyssa'.

again, Vera got the story from EZ himself (Vera told me the story on the same
occasion when she was trying to rationalize his forcing cunnilingus on
Claudia): EZ and Alyssa were drinking together. once at the hotel, Alyssa
fell (supposedly in the shower). she broke a rib that punctured a lung.

to repeat, i was still defending EZ when Vera told me this (which is why Vera
told me in the first place). but, i was very puzzled by this. sure, Alyssa
likes to drink (EZ *targets* women who do). and, anyone can slip and fall when
they've been drinking.

but, Alyssa is in top physical form; and she is trained in martial arts. the
very *first* thing you're taught in martial arts is how to fall *without*
breaking a rib! i expressed my puzzlement to Vera -- she just brushed it off.
and, at that time, i still believed my first *instinct*: that this was a case
of an innocent black man being persecuted by hysterical white bigots, etc.

now i know why Alyssa broke a rib. she didn't just fall, she passed out. and
she passed out because he drugged her. no more puzzling inconsistency.

then, on another occasion when i was visitng her (socially), Vera launched into
a big tirade about "men", because EZ didn't "understand" that "enough, stop,
you're hurting me, i'm in pain" means he's supposed to stop, rather than "if
you don't like it, there's something wrong with you as a woman" (the line Vera
said EZ feeds women who want him to stop hurting them).

my grandfathers were far from 'perfect gentleman'. they didn't have a year of
formal education between them. (they didn't have enough to *eat* when they
grew up, much less money for schoolbooks!) both were violent men. (one of
them carried a gun at all times, as did my father.)

but, none of them would have continued doing something to a woman that she said
was physically hurting her if their life had depended on it.

what's not to 'understand' about, "stop, you're hurting me"? according to
Vera, this is the fault of "men". well, based upon the example of the men that
brought me up, i'd say it's the fault of EZ.

and then, Amanda of Houston went bazerk in *public*. i know Amanda. i've
dated her. she is a perfectly down to earth, highly *pragmatic* individual.
she did not *publicly* 'lose it' merely because "[something] just happened".

*** has said he's seen "documented proof of some of Guy's charges". ok, it's
'secret evidence'. but, is ***** 'jealous' of all the sex EZ is getting?
(chuckling) or, is *** a crazed racist? (btw, why would someone making
baseless charges because he is 'jealous' and a 'racist' have spent a month
vigorously defending the accused -- just to throw everybody off the trail?
it's pure 'junkie logic' to imply that the first month's defense must have been
*in spite of* jealousy and racist malice.)

you know yourself, because you were in *** chat at the time, that *i* was the
first one to alert EZ that *Claudia* had outed EZ's name (because Vera gave me
public credit for it while you were there); that *i* was the one who told EZ to
look for *** in chat to have the post deleted (that's why EZ went there); and
you know that, notwithstanding EZ's asking *** to delete the post, that ***
left the whole thing hanging out there. i didn't understand why at the time.
now i do.

then there is the *public* claim, made by Vera or EZ himself (i forget which),
that women won't book with EZ. do you suppose that any escort has ever turned
down a nickel of business because of baseless charges made by guy catelli? or,
do you think they're turning down EZ's business because of what they've learned
from the escort grapevine, where escorts say what they *really* know about us?

we're not talking about no-pay/slo-pay or something like that. we're talking
about something that could eventually wind up being felony murder.

you can disbelieve me. that's your prerogative. there is no *absolute
certainty* in life. never has been; never will be. but, i've defended guilty
people (to my subsequent regret) that i had originally believed were innocent.
i've never (that i can recall) mistakenly accused an innocent person. and if,
god forbid, i am mistaken about EZ, the mistake was not due to insufficient
evidence to support the mistaken conclusion.

when *Claudia* (who was the "trigger mechanism", as you put it -- not
*Roberta*) initially put this matter on the public record, my first instinct
was to go into my defense-against-racial-bigotry mode (for which i have a
lifelong history -- a claim i doubt that Vera could make, and i am certain
Seattle John could *not* make). Claudia herself triggered this by accusing EZ
of racism against her.

i kept defending EZ after Vera told me a story (ie, about Alyssa) that didn't
strike me as making sense when i first heard it. and, i verbally tore Amanda
to shreds on a public board for engaging in public innunedo without actually
making specific charges.

but, as i've said before, eventually i found that i was defending *too much*
'too much'.

on the flip side, there's no 'constitutional right' to book an escort. a good
reputation as a client is a privilege that has to be earned and maintained.
it's not some kind of 'unalienable right'.

therefore, as always, life is a matter of playing the *odds* -- no matter what
the issue. just on the basis of what is *publicly* known, these are *very* bad
odds.

and yeah, i also have 'secret evidence' -- to boot. but, forget the secret
evidence: based on what's already out there for everyone to see, would you
want someone you care about to roll the dice on going out for drinks with EZ?
i wouldn't.

it's that simple.

guy


:)wait this is guy so you know theres more slander and dribble......


From :
guy catelli <gcatelli@yahoo.com>

To :
Ozzy <XXXXXXX@hotmail.com>, slinkybender <XXXXXXXXX@yahoo.com>

Subject :
don't blame EZ

Date :
Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:50:40 -0700 (PDT)


like i said, i'm not trying to convince you. first i wanted to clear up
whatever mistaken inference you may have drawn from my previous silence.

second, after you replied by (impliedly) challenging my credibility, i wanted
to show that there is more than enough public evidence, combined with
'admissions against interest' from EZ himself, that he is a serial sex predator
whose standard m.o. is to blame the women (obviously, a surefire way to
favorably sway many clients).

anti-italian racists conspired with capitalist pigs to frame Sacco and
Venzetti.

anti-german racists trying to take the u.s. into WW2 conspired to frame Bruno
Hauptman for kidnapping the Lindbergh baby.

FDR conspired with the aramaments cartel to keep the impending attack on Pearl
Harbor a secret.

Churchill conspired with Zionists to keep an impending attack on Coventry a
secret.

The FBI conspired with capitalist pigs to frame both Alger Hiss and the
Rosenbergs.

Everyone and their aunts and uncles conspired to kill JFK.

half of L.A. conspired against O.J.

more recently, a 'vast right-wing conspiracy' conspired to make it appear that
Bill Clinton *did* know what the meaning of 'is' is.

and now:

catelli is part of a conspiracy; and

*** is part of it;

Claudia is part of it;

Alyssa is part of it;

Amanda is part of it;

hey, even *Roberta* was once part of it.

are all of these cases unrelated? not at all. they're all basically replays
of the same script: everyone has an agenda; every institution does sordid
things as part of its institutional imperative; therefore, everyone and every
institution are part of an evil conspiracy. only one person is an *exception*
to this rule: the accused. so, there's no inconsistency here.

[i'm hardly the first commentator about the sheer perversity of human nature.
Mark Twain is *devastating* on the subject of the perverse human
will-to-believe the untterly unbelievable.]

i'm not going to reveal the evidence of the druggings. that's not the point.
the point is: would you recommend EZ as a client to a woman whose safety you
cared about? if EZ never drugged a woman in his life, the public record,
combined with revelations made to me by Vera make absolutely clear that EZ's
business is 'risky business'.

and, *that's* why many women won't book with EZ. but, don't blame EZ for this.
blame catelli; blame ***; blame Claudia; blame Alyssa; blame Roberta; blame
Amanda. blame everyone and anyone -- *except* don't blame EZ.

guy


:)theres more but i won't waste the bandwidth with this crap. ok this should end this once and for all.


[Edited by ozzy on 08-09-2001 at 01:32 AM]

[Ozzy]

one last question..... tank..wheres YOUR proof that you are not aligned with these people and responsible for some of this crap.

i only ask since you say it's ok for guy to do this since no one can prove EZ is NOT guilty.....fairs fair......buddy. and don't try and slam me as your other name that you used to slam B2S on this board


it's over johnnie.









[Edited by ozzy on 08-09-2001 at 12:33 AM]

[Eye Won]

Well,
I don't think he can reply because he's outta here.... Is that the story... and just for the record Guy's board and Tanks board, I beleive are two seperate things....I could be wrong, but...
Imperiaone.....OUT!!!!!!!

[Eye Won]

The only problem is that he will never see it. You should probaby e-mail it to him. I think it might open his eyes a little......
Imperialone...OUT!!!!!

[carlk]

I saw roberta *immediately* after the alleged (by guy the fatuous wacko) attack. she had had no time to be prepped. I was her next morning appt. she told a tale where EZ treated her like gold (her word), she "loved him" and she "got drunk" and the rest was "both of our fault". no drugs, no guy stirring the pot, no EZ guilt. so ozzy chose the right side -- which is frankly a complete accident. claudia was a strange girl and you cant take much of her for real. and alyssa falling or whatever -- I make zero of that, we can all believe anything could have happened there.

are we done yet or is this board doomed also?

no question - guy is an intentional troublemaker, documented on every board, and hes been thrown off all of them. EZ is CLEAN on houston roberta -- dont think so, SB do a 3 way call with me and her. tank you want your proof, you just got it. ozzy why do you like causing wrecks. the janelle insanity on JAG, this thing. drop it.

at least the other boards took a bit to disrupt. I read the 1/2 life of this 1 to be about 8 seconds

in the words of casper peace out

[DannyNJ]

Can I have a show of hands here.. WHO CARES?? It looked as though this thread was finally going to die and here we go again.

I don't know the whole story. I haven't followed it. I don't CARE enough to follow it..... but the point is, it's all IN THE PAST!!! Why harp on it??

The involved parties are gone. Let's move on.

[ew]

I am sure about one truth: escorts do network among themselves. So if anyone is a serial offender you can be sure that the word would get around soon enough. On this issue escorts usually help each other out. I would think that this is the case, but there is probably zero chance a provider will get within a mile of this thread to confirm this.

Other than that, I would guess that an escort (even if she was in fact wronged) would rather that discussions of this profile not happen. Nothing good can come from being at the center of such a maelstrom.

The main players in the thread above are not present so you rest assured that the issue won't be resolved here.

[SkellyChamp]

Originally posted by slinkybender
Mixed emotions: Seeing your ex-wife drive off a cliff in your new Mercedes convertible.

Slinky - No mixed emotions

The Mercedes is insured

[Ozzy]

imperial...

i'm sure he's seen it already. btw...you never got back to me about that hush hush UG G2G i supposedly threw or attended?????? i don't know what rumors are going around but I was not at any G2G or know of any secret meetings anywhere since the last one in NYC.

and who could tell where that was posted since i only was sent a link to it..... but you and tank are moderators on guy catelli's board...unless i'm mistaken?


carl...

you know all about what really happened on jag with janelle. you also know about a lot of the other shit thats been thrown around here (first hand). you also know that some of that shit here had to be removed before they turned this into bigdog. so it turns out i was right both times. cause that janelle insanity happened right here on UG also (three times), and i had no part of it. it also happened someplace else a lot more private that we both know of and ...well you know what happened there too.

so thats three times i was right.


now if you want to count alyssa, cause you and your friends know all about that one and what she and her friends are capable of first hand.


thats 4 for 4.


carl,
so tell me....does what taylor li and morgan did to a mutual friend of ours make me 5 for 5 or 6 for 6?



i think that sums up all my rants here on UG.

now i can go.

[Edited by ozzy on 08-09-2001 at 12:17 AM]

[Eye Won]

Before I knew of the Catelli stuff, I did agree to be a moderator of the music section of his board. After I had heard the stories and after talking to some people I decided I was gonna pass on being a part of that board. Im sorry I didn't get back to you the other day. I just assumed that Tank was being paranoid and I also assumed you were treating us as a unit cause we hang out on occasion...... As far as where that was posted, I only received the link. I will try to get the URL for you. It's a board he just started, I think. I'll get back to you.

Imperialone......OUT!!!!!!

[Casper]

For the love of god or allah or whomever you worship (provders included) close this post and take this non sense of the board and into private emails ....

Slinky I plead with you to stop the insanity anyway you see fit but stop it you must .....

Peace Out
C

[Zeus]

.

[Edited by Zeus on 08-09-2001 at 01:20 AM]

[RoosterC74]

Beep,
If you had really been in Delta Force-you would have made no such comments or statements. People such as you should be banned from Boards such as this one-you are ruining them.

[Hotpuppy]

Originally posted by Casper
For the love of god or allah or whomever you worship (provders included) close this post and take this non sense of the board and into private emails ....
Slinky I plead with you to stop the insanity anyway you see fit but stop it you must .....
Peace Out
C

Although I agree that this thread would best be consigned to the closed bin, I dont think that will do anything to prevent the rearing of its less than attractive head somewhere else. This appears to be an issue that some people feel very strongly( with egos and reputations on the line) about and until the main protagonists agree that it is best left to the back channel, it will continue to surface again and again.
take care HP

[wilt]

The only objective reality I see is:

1. In the absence of a fact finding hearing,all of this "evidence" that many are "submitting" is meaningless.This or any other board of its ilk is not an appropriate forum to resolve these endless controversies. Why not hire one of those alternative dispute resolution firms(maybe you can get the former NYS Court of Appeals presiding judge, Sol Wachtler, to preside)and stipulate that his finding is final. I volunteer to forgo a session and kick in $150 towards the fee,so we can bring this endless melodrama to closure If no one else is willing to contribute,I'll stipulate to letting Jude Crater hear the matter;
2. Many of you gentlemen are way too involved with providers.

[beep9]

Originally posted by RoosterC74
Beep,
If you had really been in Delta Force-you would have made no such comments or statements. People such as you should be banned from Boards such as this one-you are ruining them.

Uhhmmmm, Rooster... I thought it was pretty clear that that was a joke.

[Hotpuppy]

Beep,
I think when you use language as strong as you did to Rooster, that a little more than a :) is necessary to let someone know that you are joking- especially on a thread such as this where tensions and civility are being stretched to the breaking point.
take care HP

[RoosterC74]

Beep,

Since, I do not know you personally, and since you have never responded to any of my other posts on the Board, how could I have possibly thought it was a joke? I see no room for jokes that are threatening in nature around here. They have no positive purpose, unless I am missing something. Additionally, I do not believe that they fit in well with the true nature of this Board. Throughout, the many months that I have been a member of this Board, I have attempted to keep my comments positive, both about other Board Members and many providers that I have come to enjoy and trust. I will continue to move in that direction, and will have no further correspondence with you in the future, either on this Board or through private e-mail. In a very few sweet words- in my eyes you no longer exist.

[Edited by RoosterC74 on 08-09-2001 at 10:15 AM]

[Carl M]

You know I thought it over and Im not going anywhere. I certainly learned a valuble lesson, trust no one!!

As to Roosters post above I corroborate that he is one of the most sincere and positive posters we have here anything to the contrary is complete bullshit!!

[Edited by Carl M on 08-09-2001 at 10:33 AM]

[TuckernotSucker]

Boring Thread. Who Cares. Its just a rehashing of bs. Thanks CarlK for the First hand info. thanks ozzy for setting the record straight. Its nice to be right. Its also nice to be a king. NOW LETS END IT. Its boring. Please SB Close this thread

[Carl M]

When a thread is not useful any longer. The boys are right Slinky its time eradicate this thread!

[Slinky Bender]

OK Carl.