I am so embarrased

[candie]

to say this provider lola, with whom I was talking about a few posts down has written this and resides not to far from me, in new jersey.

Such hated for men. Why be in the business?

http://www.*********.net/discussion/posts/37506.html

Makes us sound so evil :(

[Hotpuppy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by candie


Such hated for men. Why be in the business?

http://www.*********.net/discussion/posts/37506.html

Makes us sound so evil :(
________________________________________________________________________________
Lola makes it very clear why she is in the business, its the $$$$

I for one am glad she was so honest in her post- more than any hyperbolic review by a client or self serving post by a provider ( not directing this to anyone in particular, but we all know they do exist), Lolas up front post serves as a clear signpost to her services. Never has it been clearer who,( for me) NOT to see.

[Edited by Hotpuppy on 04-15-2001 at 09:15 AM]

[nj george]

there is an obvious lack of respect shown(or not shown?) for her clients. and her clients probably do not respect her all that much either. but then again she projects herself and provides the type of session that is not condusive to garnering respect. in order to gain the respect of clients a provider has to give as much as she expects., it goes both ways. if she clearly is in it for the $$$ and only sees a client as a source of income, the conversely the client will only see her as a source of obtaining an orgasm. nothing more. i suppose there is a market niche for the type of service she provides, but i have been down that road too many times and it is a very empty experience and over time not satisfying at all, no matter how "hot" the girl is or how wild the ride.

i disagree with her in that i honestly think that anyone can do her job. but only a very small handfull can do it WELL. it is the provider that gives a little of herself to each of her clients that is the true gem. THEY are the very special ladies in the business. and they are the ones worthy of the glowing comments. i have met a few very special ladies that treat me with respect and sincerely see me and like me as a real person. i have also met others that have not.

yes lola/rachel does us all a service by telling us how she feels about her clients but i think it was also very obvious fron her earlier post.

[ew]

If you've been following what she's said on *** for the past week or so, it started with her lammenting how slow business has been! (gee,wonder why?)

Then some guy said that her got 20 min out of an hour, then she threw the gloves off. Lola/rachel/rena has basically destroyed her latest marketing attempt (thanks for the favor) with her honesty. Perhaps she is just bitter that a client outed her, perhaps she was pissed that the whole incident was due to a a new client not understanding what "regular"procedure is. Some providers did try to calm her down but I guess the hatred has been building too long.

I think the truth is she really doesn't like her job and her disdain for the men she has as clients is clear. Yeah, I know that it is a business, but as such clients can vote with their feet.

[frog]

Are you serious in believing that anyone can be a provider? Even without feelings, I don't think that this job is for everyone. Put it another way, if you were a gigolo, how do you think you would feel after boinking a lot of non-attractive women?

Sure, there are women who put on such a good show to give you the illusion that she is having the time of her life, but for you to truly believe it. Well, who am I to burst your bubble, nevermind. I just had a session with a provider who gave me back all my money; we basked in mutual respect in lieu of cash. She is not in it for the money and I am not in it to spend money.

[Edited by frog on 04-15-2001 at 12:14 PM]

[Hotpuppy]

This thread raises a question for me: I meet a provider, there is good chemistry from the time the door opens, what follows is a good/great GFE ( whatever that means for you), she stays some past the agreed upon time, there is conversation, mutual affinities are discovered, she says in all sincerity that she had a nice time, enjoyed the talk and the sex and says that she would be happy to see me again. I am an unusually trusting person, probably naively so- I take this as truth. So, here's the question, if there was some way of actually knowing whether or not this is the truth, do I really want to know. I am conflicted and am curious to know how others feel. Take care HP

[frog]

I believe that she would be happy to see you again.

[frog]

I believe that slinky was happy to see you post again too.

[Hotpuppy]

Originally posted by frog
I believe that slinky was happy to see you post again too.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Would you mind explaining this comment, please?

[frog]

Okay, HP deserves a more proper answer.

What do you want from this woman HP? Do you want to date her? or just get better mileage? or what? I think we need to answer this family of questions before we proceed to the frailties of a provider's psyche. That will be followed by the frailties of a john's psyche.

That'll be $250, please schedule your next appointment on the way out.

[frog]

Originally posted by Hotpuppy
Originally posted by frog
I believe that slinky was happy to see you post again too.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Would you mind explaining this comment, please?

Slinky is running a business here (sort of) -- he is always happy to see a return customer.

[Hotpuppy]

Originally posted by frog
Okay, HP deserves a more proper answer.

What do you want from this woman HP? Do you want to date her? or just get better mileage? or what?


That'll be $250, please schedule your next appointment on the way out.


Actually neither. When I have been interested in dating a provider outside the business agreement , I have asked for that. When I have wanted better mileage as you put it ( I assume this means a better rate), I have asked for it and sometimes received both. However asking if someone is telling the truth is a much dicier proposition, especially in this hobby of ours in which telling the truth may not equal good business practice. I think my question is not at all that loaded. Do you want to know the truth or not? Sorry if I got windy.
Since you were so kind as to explain the slinky comment, would you now explain the $250 remark?
Thanks, Take care HP


[Edited by Hotpuppy on 04-15-2001 at 12:53 PM]

[frog]

She may or may not be telling the truth. Despite the inherent subjectivism, you are in a better position to make that assessment than I am. But considering that you do not want to pursue her in any way, let's just assume that she did indeed have a good time. Perhaps not good enough to give you freebies, but good enough to more promptly return your call. And would you book her again? of course, right?

Do you really want to know the truth? or would it hurt you to hear that she says this to all her clients?

By mileage, I meant more GFE-like acts, but I guess it could mean rates as well.

[ew]

Likewise, who am I to burst your bubble?

[frog]

Originally posted by Hotpuppy ...
Since you were so kind as to explain the slinky comment, would you now explain the $250 remark?


Just a joke. I was pretending to be your psychologist. Sorry to be so flippant.

[Hotpuppy]

My apologies, I see why this thread has taken this turn. My question did not arise out of any current situation that I find myself in. The situation is a hypothetical one, and my question is a general one to the hobbying public. I am an unrepentant information gatherer- just trying to make sense of it all. Take care HP

A $250 psychologist?
No offense taken, frog, sometimes it is difficult to figure out the intended tone

[Phantom]

How does that expession go, "been there, done that?"

I would rather have nothing said if she did not really and truthful mean it.


Candie,

As for getting requests about how old or when your pictures were taken, adding a line of text to the jpg's as to when the photos were taken is very easy with software such as Adobe Photoshop.

C'mon Candie tell us where you would LOVE to have some new pictures taken. What garden? Maybe there is someone here who can make it happen. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Edited by Phantom on 04-15-2001 at 01:44 PM]

[Tankcommander]

Behind Lola was that she charged $180, for one hour...
What she gave was one BBBJ for 20 minutes and then left. I was not there, but in reading the threads, Lola did not deny that fact, but rather wrote that her job was a difficult one, and inferred that upon "finishing" the client, her obligations were completed.

She then berated clients about going to her for "services you cannot provide yourself", suggesting that clients cannot get her quality of service elsewhere and then threatening to tell her friends about the "bad" clients on ***.

But the issue was still left unaddressed, that she felt it was unnecessary to complete her obligation of one hour. she was not asked for a "second cup of coffee", nor is that the issue. There are a lot of things one can do in the remaining 40 minutes. a Massage, cuddling, talking...

The next thing you know, another thread is posted essentially relegating the existance of men according to her to being nothing more than a cash machine. In my opinion, this woman blames men for whatever her problems are.

The guy who only got 20 minutes eventually apologized. I'm not sure why since he was the victim, but he did so and since I have no right to tell him one way or another, I hold my tongue.

To put in in another perspective, if I take more than an hour for my "cup of coffee", is she obligated to stay more than the time I paid for?

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by frog
Okay, HP deserves a more proper answer.

What do you want from this woman HP? Do you want to date her? or just get better mileage? or what? I think we need to answer this family of questions before we proceed to the frailties of a provider's psyche. That will be followed by the frailties of a john's psyche.

That'll be $250, please schedule your next appointment on the way out. sound like cash and dashto me!

[frog]

Originally posted by Hotpuppy
A $250 psychologist?
No offense taken, frog, sometimes it is difficult to figure out the intended tone

pretend I am a provider, then I'd be cheap!

[guy catelli]

just to be the devil's advocate, i'd like to turn this stone over once or twice.

given a choice between a 20-minute cup of hot java at $180, and a two-day minimum of $14,000, which would you choose?

sure, it's unpleasant to have someone dash out the door when you're expecting them to hang around for another 40 minutes. if it happened to me --- in the way he described it -- i'd proably not want to go back.

but, on the other hand, if a female friend does me a favor such as what was described, i'm hardly going to go into a big public whine about some ancillary disappointment. i would say he got decent value for his $180, even if not exactly what he had in mind.

this brings me to another point for which i will probably wind up getting 'Bobbited'. (hey, does anyone know how many times it can be sewn back on?)

that is, why don't more escorts offer 20-minute one-cup specials, for say, $1.8? it seems to me that if a touring escort has a session ending at 2pm, and another that doesn't begin until 4pm, it would be a profitable option for filling the intervening time, and still have time to get ready for the 4pm session.

or, say, there's a no-show that she has travelled to get to. $1.8 for 20 minutes would not be full compensation for her hassle and disappointment. but, it wouldn't be coming up empty-handed, either.

or, for example, a client has made known his willingness, to 'fill-in' at an odd hour. it's 1am; her hard drive has crashed; she wants to take it to the shop and get a new one the next day, but she hadn't 'budgeted' for this. so, she calls the client and says she's available for a 20-minute special, but he has to act right away or wait until the next special occasion comes along.

just a thought {guy runs for cover -------------------->}

[Hotpuppy]

My pleasure tends to reside somewhere between 20 minutes and two days.

[Ozzy]

i wouldn't see lola if she paid me.....



:cool:

[guy catelli]

anyone have pix of her?

[Tankcommander]

Was the hour...

And, incall places do offer 30 minute sessions for about 1.5....

Bottom line was that Lola half ripped someone off. She didn't totally rip him off, just a little...

But then, that's like being sort-of pregnant..

[Edited by Tankcommander on 04-15-2001 at 03:14 PM]

[Slinky Bender]

Oh, so many issues to discuss !

Firstly, why is it that there rarely seems to be any middle ground when we see providers discuss clients in general. Either its' "all men are scum, you should be lucky that i look at you for x $, shut up and stop whining" or "I love all men. they are so fabulous. i don't even get bothered when they come to me all smelly after playing ball and not taking a shower; i thinks it's manly".

Of course it's a business, and any guy who doesn't factor that in is deluding himself. But so is a restaurant, a hotel, a resort, a casino, etc. That's why is called the Hospitality Business. just because it's a business doesn't mean you have to show disdain for your customers. you don't have to fall in love with them, either. You should, however, like anyone in the hospitality business, treat them nicely. I have no respect for waiters/waitresses who treat the customers poorly because they "are really actors/actresses, but need to do this for the $". Find another line of work, then.

When I told some people I was starting this board, the told me one of the reasons that "it would never work" is that the ladies couldn't tell the truth and still stay in business. Well, that's only true to a small extent. Now, there are some things that I agree shouldn't be said. When I train salespeople, one of the things I teach is that it's perfectly allright to call the customer an asshole. Just make sure you hang up the phone first !
OTOH, there are lots of things that can be truthfully relayed on places like this. How about if a lady had just had 4 appointments in one day, and none of them had showered first or were willing to take a shower before the session started, and it bothered her. Would a lot of guys here get their feathers ruffled if she wanted to discuss that issue ? As long as it wasn't couched in "you guys are gross enough as it is, don't be smelly, too", i think it could be useful. If, however, it was presented in that way, would it be useful ? I would think not.

In any business, it's much tougher if you show disdain for your customers ( whether or not you have such disdain ). Do you really think those waiters at teh top NYC restaurants really like all the customers that much ? Of course they don't, but part of their job is to be nice to them anyway. Do you think that there are some customers they actually do like ? Well, of course there are. And often they will get something special as the result of it. However, all the customers get a certain level of service anyway.

Every time I have seen a suvey of this, the answer has been the same: What is it about your favorite restaurant which makes it your favorite ? the answer has always been that the place shows a personal interest in the customer. They greet by name, give something extra, etc. Do you think this buisiness is that much differrent ? Take a look at what guys have written here on this board ? What is it that they say makes a provider "great"? Seems like a lot of the time it isn't even something that happens in a session. it's aphone call to say congratulations, or a phone call to say "I see on X board that Y happenend to you. If there's anything I can do....".

[Phantom]

Guy,

You're not missing much. You can find a picture of Lola/Rachel at the following url,

http://escortamerica.com/cliftonRachel.html

[Slinky Bender]

Second issue. While I don't think that this provider gave value for the $, part of the problem is simply in terminology. Now, we all know to ignore the "fees are for time only" legal disclaimers. So, if someone says one hour, but what they really mean is one something else, how do you connote that ? And if ( as someone suggested somewhere else ), you tried to 'make it clear" in your conversations setting up the appointment, what provider would end up seeing you ?

There are those who have always meant that one hour = one "pop". I am not familiar with any Asian agency, incall, AMP which had a policy otherwise ( although there are others who are much more familiar with that than I am; I only use that as an example ). If that's what she was opperating under, it's more of a mis-communication than a rippoff. OTOH, the attitude surounding it is much more of a concern to me.

[Phantom]

Here's Lola/Rachel's ad from EA. Now there's a FH.

RACHEL
5'5", 115lb, 36C-26-36
Blonde Hair, Blue Eyes
Avail Mon/Thu/Fri 11am-6pm Discreet adult companionship
I look a lot like Faith Hill
and have an outrageous body,
great attitude, very
friendly and accomodating,
well spoken and cultured for
the gentleman with
discriminating taste for the
finest. This shining star
wants to have a lot of fun
with you. Total GFE
experience. Thank you for
taking the time to read my
ad and have a wonderful day.
E-mail: xtasywithme@aol.com
Phone: (973) 444-1238

[Slinky Bender]

Third issue: I don't think $180 is appropriate for a 'quickie" type experince. take a look at the "Cheap Thrills" section. Perhaps $50 to $100. In addition, if you want to advertise youself as "total GFE", you'd better understand what the term means before telling poeple to expect it. ( side note: Phantom, either the link you gave or the pics she sends has the negative reversed, unless she's got a simialr tattoo on both thighs ).

No, why is it that more don't offer quickies ? this is a very comlicated issue. For some, it's a self worth issue ( I'm not going to sleep with anyone for less than X $ ). For some, it's an issue of not wanting to let anyone have a 'dsicount", no matter what ( cheapens the product ? ). For some. it's not wanting to do too many sessions in a day. There's tons of reasons. i will say, however, that I honestly belive that a lot of non-business issues get in the way of a lot of ladies maximizing their ability to make a living at this, and a lot of what should be business decisions get made on a "non-business" basis.

[Phantom]

Also take a look at this ad for "Rena" also from EA. Notice the email address and phone number, the very same as Rachel/Lola,

RENA
5'5", 115lb, 36C-27-36
Blonde hair, Blue Eyes
Available Weekdays 11-7
Buxom, petite blonde
located in the Northern
New Jersey area for the
discriminating gent. I
provide the absolute best
GFE and my ultimate
pleasure is your
satisfaction. I do not
misrepresent myself.
All-american cheerleader
type, funloving, dynamite
attitude and eager to have
fun with you. Please email
me for further info which
I will send promptly.....
XOXO RENA XOXO
E-mail: xtasywithme@aol.com
Phone: (973) 444-1238

[Slinky Bender]

Fourth issue: If you are in this hobby "looking for love", you are in the wrong place. I tell the same thing to salepeople I am training. I don't mean that you shouldn't be nice and courteous to yor customers. You can even like them, and give special treatment to those who you do like. But don't lose site of the business aspects of the relationship.

I'm not saying that the ladies shouldn't try to like the gents. I'm not saying that they don't. I'm not saying that they shouldn't try to make every client feel special, because, when you get right down to it, it's better for both sides if that happens. The job is easier for the lady, and if he feels like he had a better session. the guy may come back more often, he may get better service, etc. But the guys shouldn't confuse the girls with their SO, either.

[Phantom]

Everyone's looking for something that is missing in their lives. I'm no different.

[Slinky Bender]

Fifth issue: Anyone can do this. Yep, I agree. Just like waiting tables. As far as the psychologial issues, that doesn't stop you from doing it, it stops you from doing it well. A rookie waitress can't go into Danube and perform, but that doens't mean she can't go to Howard Johnson's ( if she can find one, that is ). How long does it take for a pimp to thow some young girl out on the street and force her to perform ?

Like any business, there are folks who truly enjoy what they do, folks who tolerate it well and everyone thinks they enjoy it, folks who tollerate it somewhat well and a decent number of folks think they enjoy it, etc, etc. down to the folks who let everyone know how much they hate every minute of it. Which one's do you think have the most satisfied customers, and which one's do you think make the most money ? ( hint: different answers to those two questions )

[guy catelli]

anybody can sing, dance, act, or, for that matter, write. but, can just anybody do these things well enough such that others would be willing to pay him or her to do so?

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Phantom
Guy,

You're not missing much. You can find a picture of Lola/Rachel at the following url,

http://escortamerica.com/cliftonRachel.html thanks, Phantom. she looks worth it to me.

btw, i'm not saying she didn't short-change the guy. i'm saying he got enough that he shouldn't have been such a crybaby about it.

[Phantom]

Looks aren't everything, GC.

[guy catelli]

ref: http://www.*********.net/discussion/posts/37563.html

Hologram writes, in part, "NO ONE wants to sleep with thousands of strange men every day for ...... $$."

how can she be so sure?

[Casper]

Originally posted by Phantom
Here's Lola/Rachel's ad from EA. Now there's a FH.
RACHEL
5'5", 115lb, 36C-26-36
Blonde Hair, Blue Eyes
Total GFE experience. Thank you E-mail: xtasywithme@aol.com
Phone: (973) 444-1238

She also uses the following email (same phone#): Joystix65@aol.com I guess for her "Lola" persona.
I had coincidentally emailed "Lola" a few days ago requesting more info and oddly enough the pic looked familiar. Well low and behold, it's the same pic that I had received from Rachel. Then I read this thread and all the bells go off in me head as to why she's using a different name. I guess she's starting over or trying to.
Anyway, glad I ran across this thread. It'll save me some $$ as I'm with Ozzy. She not getting my business anytime soon if at all.

Peace Out
C

[frog]

Originally posted by slinkybender
Which one's do you think have the most satisfied customers, and which one's do you think make the most money ? ( hint: different answers to those two questions )

the one with the biggest boobs?

[candie]

SB
Whenever I did one hours as I began, for me it was a nightmare! You can't believe the emails one gets!!! Some even pass my cell around and I was getting calls at all hours of the night for mostly, hey girl, why don't we meet in my car... skip the motel. One even asked for a phone booth booking! Just not good for me.

Now I will gladly do one hours with clients I already know! Goes to fast for me but I certainly understand anothers schedule problems.

I think when you book that way there about 80% distasteful men and 20% decent ones.

That 80% will bring ANYONE down eventually! Just not good. Though I really don't know lola but maybe she is now best <should she continue this line of work> in an agency as she stated. If she takes some time off she might also have some time to rethink things but I am only guessing here and surely no expert.

Phantom, I did :) will load them up tomo nite . I was talking in a different post about them..... they are not bad, but certainly current.

[Casper]

Originally posted by guy catelli
ref:
Hologram writes, in part, "NO ONE wants to sleep with thousands of strange men every day for ...... $$."

If she's "with" thousands every day, then she must have one SORE vag.

C

[Edited by Casper on 04-15-2001 at 10:57 PM]

[candie]

lol. Casper but I do hope she finds peace within herself. Then she could be one hell of a provider!

[littleguy]

HP,

To answer (one of) your original questions, ask her to see you outside of the business. If she does, she really likes you, if not, well, I guess it's safe to assume she's probably acting the part for you.

GC,

$180 for 20 minutes is not worth it. At least, that's my opinion.

If that's the case she should make it clear that it's one hour or one "cup of coffee", whichever comes first. You know why these ladies don't tell you that. Because most of us probably wouldn't see them on that basis.

There is an escort agency in Ft Lauderdale, "Escort Lovelies" . I saw 2 ladies from their site, both were "one and done", meanwhile they advertise their rates "per hour". I will not go there anymore.

When I e-mail ladies for information, I almost always remember to ask "If I have the energy, may I enjoy your services a 2nd time in the hour?" There's no mistaking my question, and if they don't answer it, I will ask it again. If they still don't I will simply avoid them. But that's just me. (As I'm sure you know, GC)

[littleguy]

Candie,

You said in opening the thread "Such hated for men. Why be in the business? "

I didn't get the hatred for men part. And YOU certainly have no need to be embarrassed.

Seems to be she just hates the way some of them think they're God's gift to women, if not all mankind. She is mad about something though.

As for your question, she answered it very honestly, she's in it for the money.

I know of few, if any, providers that are in it for anything else. Well, I do know one anyway, but that's another story.

Anyway, and I'm not being flippant or sarcastic, Candie, With all due respect, Why are you in the business ?



[Edited by littleguy on 04-15-2001 at 08:35 PM]

[HornDogBuddah]

SB, you ask, "why is it that more don't offer quickies? ....For some, it's a self worth issue ( I'm not going to sleep with anyone for less than X $ ). For some, it's an issue of not wanting to let anyone have a 'dsicount", no matter what ( cheapens the product ? ). For some. it's not wanting to do too many sessions in a day...I honestly belive that a lot of non-business issues get in the way of a lot of ladies maximizing their ability to make a living at this, and a lot of what should be business decisions get made on a "non-business" basis."

I couldn't agree more. While there may be some providers whose marketing backgrounds inform their actions, I think "branding" is not the underlying impetus for most providers' behaviors.

The very fact that a subset of "service providers" denigrate their customers in public (or, to be more specific, to their faces) is a clear indication that they are not thinking clearly or appropriately.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by candie
....Now I will gladly do one hours with clients I already know!.....

Candilicious,

that makes perfect sense to me. using a minimum 2-hour initial booking as a screen; and then being (selectively) flexible about future arrangements.

btw, my suggestion for 20-minute specials does not necessarily require 'FS' (LG, please email me if you don't understand this term). there's no reason why creative flexibility on the escort's part shouldn't be met with creative flexibility on the client's part as well.

btw, i'm not saying you are (or aren't) one of them, but there are definitely women who are into 'quickies' themselves. i'm sure they're in the minority, and i'm sure they don't feel that way about every creep that calls up out of the blue at 1am and asks to meet in a gas station rest room, but, nonetheless, they *do* exist.

[Edited by guy catelli on 04-15-2001 at 10:17 PM]

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by littleguy
... She is mad about something though.{chuckling} well, you got that part right, LG....she's in it for the money.

I know of few, if any, providers that are in it for anything else. Well, I do know one anyway, but that's another story.why count only the evidence that supports just one side of the issue?

[Hotpuppy]

LG
The situation I set up in my original question was hypothetical, was just trying to give the question I wanted answered a little background colour. Basically do you or anyone want to know your providers' true feelings about you?
I think the question you ask Candie about why she is in the business is related. I would be interested in the answer as well.
Take care
HP

[candie]

ok, I will answer that correctly. I am oversexed.

[Edited by candie on 04-15-2001 at 10:32 PM]

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by littleguy
...GC,

$180 for 20 minutes is not worth it. At least, that's my opinion.....but that's just me. (As I'm sure you know, GC) actually, justme is another 'case'.

speaking personally, 'it depends' -- like a lot of other things -- on who, what, where, when, etc.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by guy catelli
Originally posted by littleguy
... I know of few, if any, providers that are in it for anything else. Well, I do know one anyway, but that's another story.why count only the evidence that supports just one side of the issue?see, as two more counterexamples, these responses to Lola's post:

http://www.*********.net/discussion/posts/37512.html

and,

http://www.*********.net/discussion/posts/37571.html

[Bill Furniture]

To Frog:

Please give me the name and number of the girl who gave you back the fee. I want to be her permanent client! Ha Ha Ha.

To Candie:

There is a phonebooth in the diner up the block from my house <hint> <hint>.

[frog]

Originally posted by Phantom
Looks aren't everything, GC.

(Sorry to butt in but), for some they are.

[candie]

I thought she was cute. nice body too. She has sent me a face shot once which was ok.... but looks can surely get you in trouble at times...even me...

[littleguy]

I KNOW I'm gonna get hammered for this one but......

Candie, you replied

"why am I in it?
ok, I will answer that correctly. I am oversexed."

You're a very nice looking lady from what I can see from your website. You wouldn't have any trouble attracting 2 or 3 (or 10 or 12) guys that you find very attractive and have as much sex with them as you like for free ?

Why do you charge money if the reason you're in the biz is that you're "oversexed" ?

Also, I didn't get it at first when you said "Now I will gladly do one hours with clients I already know". Now I understand. Your minimum for a new client is 2 hours. I guess the 80/20 ratio (bad/good for 1 hour appts) means that 80% of the "one hour" type clients are dirtbags and 20% of them are nice guys or otherwise desirable clients.

So let me see if I've got this right. When the first visit is for 2 hours and the guy is paying a considerably higher fee, you are effectively weeding out a good portion of the 1 hour dirtbags, knowing that they will not pay the 2 hour rate, therefore, your "first-timers" are a MUCH better ratio than the 80/20 you quoted for "one hour ladies". Therefore, of course, since they have already established themselves with you it is OK to see them for only 1 hour.

Not bad. I sure hope that most ladies don't apply your pricing structure though. It would sure cause some hardship amongst the 20% of us good one hour types that can only afford 1 hour at a time.

[littleguy]

GC,

Whew, I'm glad I got SOMETHING right.

You said "btw, my suggestion for 20-minute specials does not necessarily require 'FS' (LG, please email me if you don't understand this term".

I know I hate it when I'm being sarcastic and people don't understand that, so, just so you know, your sarcasm didn't go unnoticed, but, actually, it's funny you should mention that. I always thought that FS, or F/S, meant "Full Service". I always took that to mean "intercourse", but recently, and I don't remember where I saw it, but I seem to recall someone referring to Full Service as the entire range of sexual activity and NOT just intercourse, so maybe I DON'T know what FS means. Which of course brings out the original point that you are so obviously (at least to me) referring to and that is you don't like explicit reviews and I prefer them based of course on such vague terms as GFE, which we have seen described as so many things as to be useless. I will not go into that issue again. (You're welcome everybody).



You said "speaking personally, 'it depends' -- like a lot of other things -- on who, what, where, when, etc."

So I assume from this there are circumstances where you would feel $180 for 20 minutes was worthwhile, yes ?

Let's take a poll. Guys, if you were quoted $180/hr, who here thinks that $180 for 20 minutes is worth it ?

You quoted
"Originally posted by littleguy
... I know of few, if any, providers that are in it for anything else ($$$). Well, I do know one anyway, but that's another story."

And you responded "why count only the evidence that supports just one side of the issue ?" Because that's the only evidence I HAVE on the issue and it is predominantly "for the money", therefore it is the ONLY side of the issue I can submit an opinion on.

And, with all due respect, quoting 2 ladies posts on *** that shows distaste for Lola's is hardly overwhelming evidence that Lola's point of view is NOT the prevailing point of view of "most" providers.

Ladies on *** and elsewhere, IMO, are FAR more likely to post the same things as the ladies you quote on *** than they would be to repeat Lola's refrain. Just good business practice. And I'm NOT saying that these ladies are lying either. Just that they probably do not represent the majority, and probably represent a rather small minority.

[Slinky Bender]

Then again, the guys who post on all the boards also represent a pretty small minority of all the hobbyists.

[littleguy]

Absolutely right, APM, point well-taken, but you'll recall that is wasn't a hobbyist's post that started all this, it was a provider's.

[Slinky Bender]

Really ? I thought it was Garthman's post slamming her that started "all of this" ? But that doens't really matter, does it ?

[candie]

littleguy, you dont know anything about me... do not ask questions about someone you do not know that are so very personal.

Well, unless your will to reveal why your in the biz too :)

My reasons are mine, not for you to nit pick at because you feel like writing to top gc :)

I dont bother anyone, so leave me alone littleguy.

Sincerely,
candie
xx

[candie]

littleguy, you dont know anything about me... do not ask questions about someone you do not know that are so very personal.

Well, unless your will to reveal why your in the biz too :)

My reasons are mine, not for you to nit pick at because you feel like writing to top gc :)

Anyone with common sense would of read my response as, well a sugar coated way to say, "not telling " for it was not necessary to bring out that information why, but you can be sure that when I choose to play provider I enjoy it.

I dont bother anyone, so leave me alone littleguy.

Sincerely,
candie
xx

[guy catelli]

jmo, but i think it does matter.

for one thing, it goes to the very point that was being made about the commentator's 'highly selective' attention. i believe it is 'innocently' so; but, after awhile, it gets exasperating.

for another thing, it's a case of one sort when a woman spontaneously 'loses it' on a public board. it's a case of another sort when she has been in some way provoked.

the 'trigger' was when, for $180, an inexperienced client got to spend 20 minutes (maybe she was in the bathroom part of the time -- the post has since been deleted) 'doing' the mouth of an attractive young woman -- to 'completion' -- and then set about to damage her business reputation by publicly posting that this was 40 minutes less GFE than he had been led to expect by her advertising, etc.

it was at that point that she lost it. i'm not saying that either of them acquitted themselves well, because, obviously, neither of them did. it is interesting to note, however, that he wound up posting an apology.

here is a post by someone with whom i do not always agree, but who is showing a good deal of common sense in this matter: http://www.*********.net/discussion/posts/37589.html


[Edited by guy catelli on 04-16-2001 at 10:33 PM]

[littleguy]

candie,

I wouldn't say I don't know ANYTHING about you, but I apologize, THAT IS nitpicking.

With all due respect, you started this thread pointing out a post by another provider. By doing so you invite comments and questions. That is why we're all here. To learn, observe and express our opinions.

You observed that Lola "hated men", so why be in the business if it's only for the money. And when somebody asks you why you're in it, you first say you're oversexed and then say it's not anybody's business. I wonder why you criticized Lola then for saying what I believe to be the truth in, say 99% of the ladies "in the biz". Now I'm NOT saying they have no OTHER reasons for doing what they do, but I sure would like to meet a lady whose PRIMARY reason is NOT the money. Don't think I have yet.

While technically I don't think I am "in the biz", if you like, you may ask away. I'll be happy to tell you much, if not all (depending on what you ask. I guess I have limits also), of what you want to know, either here on UG or privately via e-mail.

GC, good reference. I agree with that post also.

[Hotpuppy]

I think that if someone asks a reasonable question, one can either respond with a reasonable answer or decline. To obfuscate with disingenuous replies only serves to further complicate the issue. I for one would not think any less of a provider who told me straight out that she is in this for the money first and everything else( I like sex, I like men etc.) second. Someone like that I can really respect, but Im pretty sure that I could not continue to see her. However this is not really important to me, more important is the question I raised earlier in the thread.
I, like LG, would be willing to enter a discussion either on UG or privately about my reason for being in the hobby, but I would expect the same frankness in return.
Take care, HP

[Edited by Hotpuppy on 04-18-2001 at 05:38 PM]

[Ezrlove]

Little Guy - I don't think that 99% of the woman in this business are in it for the money. If you look at all the responses Lola received on the *** general discussion board, you will see that most providers and hobbyist do NOT side with her opinion (or yours for that matter).

If ladies would pay you $$$$ for escort services, would you do it? If you would do it, would it strickly be for the $$$$? Or would you also enjoy the fringe benefits?

When I say fringe benefits I don't just mean sex. These ladies get to travel, go on vacation, business and social functions, they go to night clubs, nice restuarants, 5 star hotels, they drink the finest wine and sip champagne, the theater, amusement parks, shore houses,ect,ect. The ladies get wined and dined and romanced. Most of the men treat these ladies better than they do there own wives are girlfriends.

The hobbyist tell the providers there darkest and deepest secrets. They talk to the providers about personal things like there marraiges, girlfriends, kids, and jobs.

I once booked 13 hours between two ladies and they overlapped for four hours. There was 2 hours of play time and 11 hours of social time.

Don't hate because some people enjoy there job and get paid well for doing it. Candie is one of those people, I am to for that matter.

[Hotpuppy]

Originally posted by Ezrlove
" they drink the finest wine and sip champagne"
[/B]

Just curious and off topic, but why when referring to the imbibing of champagne do we say "sip" and in regards to wine, "drink". BTW, the French and some others dont differentiate, wine is wine.
Take care, HP

[Edited by Hotpuppy on 04-17-2001 at 06:20 PM]

[TuckernotSucker]

There is a line to be drawn in the sand, albeit a very fine line.
I believe that many of the providers we know and love, Candie included, love sex. When they meet a man and see him often, the fine line appears. My question is how fine is the line?
What I do, if a personal rapport is acheived. Is offer the provider a chance to cultivate the friendship by spending personal time either a show or movie or dinner off the clock. And then a few hours of playtime on the clock. This takes care of her needs (money, afterall she has to make a living) and friendship if she is so inclined. Is it dangerous? YOU BETCHA.

[Hotpuppy]

Originally posted by TuckernotSucker

What I do, if a personal rapport is acheived. Is offer the provider a chance to cultivate the friendship by spending personal time either a show or movie or dinner off the clock. And then a few hours of playtime on the clock. This takes care of her needs (money, afterall she has to make a living) and friendship if she is so inclined. Is it dangerous? YOU BETCHA.


I agree, dangerous, but I like this approach, if only for the fact that cards are being laid( layed?) on the table and it is up to her to fold, call or dare I say it, raise.
Take care, HP

[candie]

Littleguy, I accept your appoligy and I am sorry as well for letting my temper show. It is extremely hard when typing here and trying to expose a little of what I am all about. Its no secret however, I do not ever want anyone to feel sorry for what I have had to deal with in my personal life. I just don't feel it belongs here.

This life is very good for me as I will Never allow myself to ever go thru what things I have endured in a relationship. I am very happy knowing I do not have to answer to anyone but myself. That is why a bfe is always what I thirst for and crave. There have been numerous times I agreed to the kind of evening as tucker described. I hope this explanation does not open up a new can of worms.

[Casper]

Originally posted by Hotpuppy
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ezrlove
" they drink the finest wine and sip champagne"

BTW, the French and some others dont differentiate, wine is wine.
Take care, HP


Totally off topic but an FYI - Champagne is wine, the bubbly type. It is called Champagne because it comes from a region in France called Champagne and as such, no other wine can be called that (Spumate is the Italian equivilant).
Same goes for Brandy vs Cognac ( Cognac region in France)....

Now for my on topic rant:
All I care about is how a provider treats me when I've booked time with her. The reason for her being in the BIZ really does not matter to me because I will never ask her that question ( not that I don't care about people, I really do, but I like my privacy and I always assume providers like their's too). If I pay a certain amount ie: $$ 1/2+, I expect to be treated to a GFE in every sense of the word. If the provider's greed/baggage/bad attitude or whatever, makes it impossible for me to be treated in the matter I would expect, then I would rather know that beforehand. So if the Lola types want to out themselves by posting her dislike of Hobbyists, well then guess what, that saves me from at least one bad meeting.

Hi Ho Silver awaaaayyyyy ( will I EVER become Silver ?)
Peace out
C

[Edited by Casper on 04-21-2001 at 03:53 PM]

[Casper]

ME finally becoming SILVER ... Jesus H. Christ who would have thunk it. Is Silver kinda like becoming an UG teenager ?

Peace Out
C

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Casper
....Spumate is the Italian equivilant....spumante.

[TuckernotSucker]

Or your fist time getting laid. Congrats on Silver Mr. Casper

[littleguy]

ezrlove,

You're right, my 99% figure is probably off a little. I probably UNDERESTIMATED the percentage of ladies in it for the money.

I read for the first time the discussion on ***. I think YOU should re-read it. I didn't read the whole thing but the ONLY lady (as far as I read) who claimed NOT to be in it (primarily) for the money was the part-timer and even she said something like "the money is nice, but I really enjoy it" or something like that.

Even the other ladies that chimed in, if you read the posts carefully are NOT saying the money ISN'T their primary motive, they're only saying they enjoy other things (presumably the sex and companionship of the men) about what they're doing.

You said "These ladies get to travel, go on vacation, business and social functions, they go to night clubs, nice restuarants, 5 star hotels, they drink the finest wine and sip champagne, the theater, amusement parks, shore houses, etc.... The ladies get wined and dined and romanced. Most of the men treat these ladies better than they do there own wives are girlfriends.

EZ, you're KIDDING, right ??? As far as the trips and the dinners, etc.... that you claim they enjoy, WAKE UP, that's compensation too and the GUY is paying for it. OF COURSE she enjoys those things, she doesn't have to pay for them.

Now please don't get me wrong. These ladies are human beings and they have their likes and dislikes like anybody else. They very probably DO like some of their clients much more than others and may even enteretain possibly having a relationship with one of them now and then, but the VAST MAJORITY of them want your money and provide you with sex and whatever ILLUSIONS you want them to provide.

Want to know if she REALLY like you. See if you can wine her, dine her and have a free session. THEN you'll know, otherwise, IMO, it's wise to forget about it.

And YOU, of all people, after having that idiotic episode about your "name" being smeared by a provider giving out what YOU considered to be TOTALLY INACCURRATE and/or MISLEADING info and/or innuendo, wonder about why they are in the business ??? Somebody ought to stand you up, grab you by the shoulders, shake you and yell "WAKE UP".

BTW, I can't take credit for that last idea but I think it's a good one.

[justme]

For the record justme is hard pressed to think of a 20 minute, $180 experience that could possibly be worth the money.

Question: If a restaurant (why are there so many restaurant/hobby metaphors?) advertised a seven course prix fixe (sp?) dinner for $225.00 (I hear that's what a good dinner runs in NYC), and they brought you the appetizer and salad and asked you to leave, did you just get ripped off? Does it matter how good the salad dressing was? Should you be greatful that you got to eat the antepasta?

That said...

I really have absolutely no idea what it means to say that a providor is in it for the money. I work, am I in it for the money? Moreover, if I do a good job (which I do) does my boss care whether or not I'm in it for the money? Should he? Should I be expected to walk up to my boss and tell him, "Excuse me, but you know I'm only here because you're paying me?" Now, suppose I really like what I do (I do). Suppose I find it interesting and entertaining, does that mean I should have to work for free?

Of course a providor wants to be paid. We all want to be paid for our work. Of course a providor has other reasons for doing her job besides payment, we all have other reasons for doing our job. Of course a providor isn't going to tell you that she's only there because you're paying her. If she did, she'd be a bad providor.

A word on this last bit. Lot's of clients on board like to wax fond of the mythical GFE. Now, presumably these women are not all girlfriends for these clients, they are merely simulating an experience. We are only buying a one hour (or more... or less) illusion. So granted that we are voluntarily paying for a lie, I don't understand why some clients get all riled up because providors lie about their feelings for a client. They're just doing what they're being paid to do. Get over it.

So much of the unhappiness in this hobby is caused by clients forgetting that they are purchasing an illusion. If every guy were able to keep this in mind, I think things would go a little smoother on the boards and in the hobby in general.

[Ezrlove]

Little Guy - I am a single father of 2. One of which is an 11 year old girl. I have spoken on the phone with a well known provider about my kids for hours. She has given me great advise about raising my kids. Its not easy being mr. mom.

When I see this provider do I pay her.? YES I DO. Do I want a free session ? NO I don't. If I wanted a girl friend then I would have one, trust me I could have plenty. But just to completely blow up your train of thought, this provider that I speak to on the phone a few times weekly and I have already agreed to take our kids to an amusement park this summer together. Oh and that is off the books.

You little guy have not put the effort or time into getting to know some of these ladies. Thats why you only see them as money grubbing sexual objects. I feel bad for you, because you are missing out on a whole different aspect of this hobby.

If this hobby was all about how cheap you could get off then everyone would be dealing with low cost brothels and street walkers. Nothing wrong with low cost brothels and street walkers. But comparing independent internet providers with low cost brothels and street walkers is like comparing apples and oranges.

By The Way - since you didn't bother to read the whole post that I am refering to but you suggested that I go back and read it, which I did because I thought I might have missed something,I am going to break it down for you.

Kim - truly enjoys her time with her clients

Kristina - agress with Kim

Bailey - to be honest, the hobby is nice but I do this because I get off

Muffin - I've gotten the chance to try out almost everything sexually

Lady 0f the Lake - does not want Lola speaking for her.

Meghan - I get paid a nice fee, that doesn't mean I can't enjoy my job.

Your 99% figure seems to be off a lot, not a little.

You didn't answer my question, If you were an escort would it be strictly for the money?

[candie]

what the fuss bout the money? If this is such an issue I would hope I Never book with a guy like this. I am sure I would never!

You gonna give your paycheck now to charity? Or you gonna use it to pay some bills and feed your kids?

:) sincerely,
candie
xx

[Casper]

Originally posted by guy catelli
Originally posted by Casper
....Spumate is the Italian equivilant....spumante.

Scusame pel'mio sbaglio. Grazie tanto ;)

Peace out
C

[HornDogBuddah]

"Spumate is the Italian equivilant...."
----------------------------------------------------------------------

"spumante"

a) whassamatta, ya ignorin' da "equivilant"?
b) I believe that the more appropriate comparison with Champagne as a wine-producing region in France would be Asti, the region in Italy that produces sparkling wines such as spumante.

BTW, given all of the other world-class wines (more specifically, reds) that Italy produces, it's a shame that spumante is offered as the Italian equivalent of champagne. It's better than Cold Duck, but the very best spumante couldn't match up with even the merely good non-vintage champagnes. And, if you include tete de cuvees in the comparison, fuggedaboudit!

[littleguy]

EZ,

OK, you MADE me read the entire thread.

My observations....... First of all, in "supporting" your case, you conveniently don't mention the ladies that "agree " with "Lola", not that they ALL don't.

I'm getting a little frustrated but, I said before "Even the other ladies that chimed in, if you read the posts carefully are NOT saying the money ISN'T their primary motive, they're only saying they enjoy other things (presumably the sex and companionship of the men) about what they're doing."

I STAND BY THAT.

Sorry to waste bandwidth here Slinky but here goes.

Kim - said "THIS IS WHAT I CHOOSE TO DO at this point in my life...6 years in casino management and almost 10 aviation experience prior to that turned me so cold against the 'corporate' world I honestly cant see my self going back there just yet...I enjoy being my own boss, making my own schedule and being able to travel to places i've never seen. I truly enjoy my time with clients...sorry but if i didnt, i wouldnt do it." Note she NEVER said it WASN'T primarily about money, all she said was she enjoys the time with her clients. NOT THE SAME.

Muffin - replied to a question about whether she had many choices coming out of high school with "Oh sure, maybe if I had had an advanced degree, I might have had more choices. But I had choices, I
could have continued a minimum wage job, gotten married, or become a provider. I looked at the options and
chose this." Does SHE sound like money's not her primary motive.

Lady of the Lake - Yes, she said she doesn't want Lola speaking for her. She ALSO said she "loves what she does" AND "I've taken part in paying for the funeral of a dear friend, which saved his family's home, by
which those who have visited with me have also taken part of." Sounds like she's grateful she's doing it for the money.

Bailey -" to be honest, the hobby is nice but I do this because I get off " Assuming Bailey is a nice looking lady she could get off all she wants without charging for it but she CHOOSES to charge for it. That says to me she's in it for the money. This is the CLOSEST you come to refuting my original statement, that is, of course, that money is their PRIMARY motive, NOT that they're in it ONLY for the money.

Not a single one of these ladies either said nor IMO even intimated that their PRIMARY motive was other than money.

I said before "They very probably DO like some of their clients much more than others and may even entertain possibly having a relationship with one of them now and then, but the VAST MAJORITY of them want your money and provide you with sex and whatever ILLUSIONS you want them to provide."

I'm very happy you and this lady have established a rapport. I know they HAVE a life outside of escorting. They take their kids to the park. They meet other parents with their own kids and go to the park. They do ALL that other stuff. That still does not mean their PRIMARY motive for escorting is NOT the money.

Since my figure was 99%, and, since I still believe I underestimated, I cannot be off by alot.

Sorry, I guess I didn't answer your question. No, if I were an escort (I assume a MALE one), then no, I wouldn't be in it STRICTLY for the money. Wouldn't even be in it PRIMARILY for the money. I'd be in it to get off as much as possible. And to save all the money I'm spedning now. Hahahahahahaha

If you meant, if I were a female escort, I'd have to guess (not being a female of course), that I probably wouldn't be in it strictly for the money (but I don't know that), but I probably WOULD PRIMARILY be in it for the money.

[Casper]

Originally posted by HornDogBuddah

BTW, given all of the other world-class wines (more specifically, reds) that Italy produces, it's a shame that spumante is offered as the Italian equivalent of champagne.

The post was only meant to make the comparison of the two "sparkling wines" of France and Italy, not the quality but rather to point out that they are named after their respective regions. Both France and Italy among other countries produce very respectable wines of the non sparkling variety.

Peace Out
C

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by littleguy
.... if I were an escort (I assume a MALE one), then no, I wouldn't be in it STRICTLY for the money. Wouldn't even be in it PRIMARILY for the money. I'd be in it to get off as much as possible..... according to what i read in New York Magazine, most male escorts have to sell their butt to men to actually make a full-time living at escorting. so, this is starting to make some sense.

since no one (that i can recall) has said that any but a handful of workers would keep showing up for work if the paycheck was sporadic or nonexistent, i am unclear as what it is you seem compelled to keep pounding the table about.

btw, on a note not unrelated to your constant table-pounding about this isssue, if money accounts for as much of escort-motivation as you keep insisting, why isn't this board 'swimming' with escorts?

[Assman]

Originally posted by guy catelli

btw, on a note not unrelated to your constant table-pounding about this isssue, if money accounts for as much of escort-motivation as you keep insisting, why isn't this board 'swimming' with escorts?

There are moral and social issues that keep many people from becoming escorts. Someone who pretends to be as smart as you would not ask this question. Take the money away and the escorts will disappear.

[Casper]

Take the profit away from ANY business and that business disappears. For the provider, that may be the only source of income. So what's a person to do, not charge for services rendered ?
Try not paying the mortgage company or your landlord and see what happens.

This is my point of contention:
If goods or services are exchanged, there should be just compensation paid. However the customer must receive good treatment, pay a fair price and receive good service in order to make them a repeat customer.

I imagine every provider strives to get as many repeat (regular) customers as possible. Looks attract them, but good service and value keeps them. You can all keep the Lola/Rachel types.

Disclaimer: The above message does not reflect the views or opinions of this board or it's APM. If this had been an actual emergency, you would have been notified where to tune into your area for additional information. We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming. (in my silly mood again)

Peace out
C

[Edited by Casper on 04-22-2001 at 12:22 PM]

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Casper
.... If this had been an actual emergence, ...uh, emergence of what, C?

[Bill Furniture]

Did you ever notice that on the Casper cartoons, he always started off without any friends?

Then, he would end every episode with alot of friends...

But when the new episode started, he would again have no friends...

What did Casper do with/to his friends?!?

[guy catelli]

{sighing}

Originally posted by Assman
Originally posted by guy catelli
btw, on a note not unrelated to your constant table-pounding about this isssue, if money accounts for as much of escort-motivation as you keep insisting, why isn't this board 'swimming' with escorts?There are moral and social issues that keep many people from becoming escorts. Someone who pretends to be as smart as you would not ask this question.{chuckling} in other words, your understanding is that i'm asking why civilian women who lurk on UG don't suddenly rush out and become escorts?Take the money away and the escorts will disappear. we have all agreed about this over and over and over. yet, you and certain others continue to repeat this refrain over and over and over as if someone were disgreeing with you about the fact that nobody makes a living by not charging a fee.

obviously, your real point is to keep sending a message to escorts, loud and clear, that their price of admission here is to constantly have their sensibilities assaulted.

so, as i've been saying from the beginning [Amber's curt put-down (her very last remark here to date), notwithstanding] there are two 'constituencies' here:

1. the dogs that want to pee on as many fire hydrants as possible, in as many different positions as possible, as many times as possible, at the lowest price possible.

2. those who are seeking erotic companionship with a woman who, based upon her postings, is judged to have compatible interests, temperament, outlook on life and love, etc.

and, as i've said from the beginning, both constituenceis cannot be served. not because category 2 won't tolerate category 1. rather, because categrory 1 not only will endlessly heap disdain on 2 ("suckers", etc.), but because any time an escort shows up to do anything besides good-naturedly cope with bawdy vulgarities, 1 will resume pounding the table: "you're just doing this for the money!!!".

so, even the most good-natured escorts have left, because they can't take it anymore. and, most of the ones i've invited here have refused to appear at all, for the same reason.

suppose this were an online medical message board. the place would be crawling with health care providers looking for business, status, etc. unless, every time a doctor claimed to genuinely want to heal people, a chorus would rise up crying, "Take the money away and [doctors] disappear." there are some things even a doctor won't stoop to.

so, in summary, you won -- the escorts are all but gone, save for brief promos. so, what's your beef?

[Casper]

Originally posted by Bill Furniture
What did Casper do with/to his friends?!?
That's an ancient chinese secret. ;)

Peace out
C

[nj george]

guy, sometimes i agree with you and sometimes i don't. , but i tip my hat to you for your last post. you hit the nail on the head bigtime.

[littleguy]

Guy,

In supporting your point of view and in your own inimitable fashion you seem to have conveniently ignore the fact that it was a provider that started this thread, not a john.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by littleguy
Guy,

In supporting your point of view and in your own inimitable fashion you seem to have conveniently ignore the fact that it was a provider that started this thread, not a john. i not only did i not 'ignore' that point, but, in fact, i implicitly made it part of the very *premise* from which my conclusion was drawn.

my *premise* was that any time an *escort* suggests she is not just a human f*ck-me-doll for rent, she is met with a chorus of: ~let's be honest about it: you're doing sex4$ -- and we all know what the word for that is.~

it is you who are "conveniently ignor" that, their financial self-interest notwithstanding, most of the nyc-area online escorts have not contributed to this board at all, and the few who had been willing to brave it have thrown in the towel.

how do you explain [i]that in terms of your financial self-interest uber alles thesis? is their leaving and/or staying away from the board in their financial self-interest?

[Edited by guy catelli on 04-23-2001 at 12:16 AM]

[Casper]

Originally posted by guy catelli
Originally posted by Casper
.... If this had been an actual emergence, ...uh, emergence of what, C?

Just what was the purpose of your post above. Odd how some people see the tree and not the forest. My additional comment would be as follows:
Originally posted by guy catelli , i tend to completely ignore comments that are so hopelessly clueless as to not warrant further reply. [/B]

Peace Out
C

[Edited by Casper on 04-23-2001 at 12:02 AM]

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Casper
Just what was the purpose of your post above. ...just joshin', C.

[Casper]

Originally posted by guy catelli
Originally posted by Casper
Just what was the purpose of your post above. ...just joshin', C.
Now we all know.
Peace Out
C

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Casper
Originally posted by guy catelli
Originally posted by Casper
Just what was the purpose of your post above. ...just joshin', C.
Now we all know.
Peace Out
C what's really your problem here, C?

[wsb]

Originally posted by guy catelli


so, even the most good-natured escorts have left...


Excuse me, but which escorts that have left were the "good natured" ones??? If they are so good natured, why didn't they just ignore group #1 or win them over with their sterling personalities???

Just curious,

--WSB

[wsb]

Originally posted by guy catelli


most of the nyc-area online escorts have not contributed to this board at all, and the few who had been willing to brave it have thrown in the towel...


[Edited by guy catelli on 04-23-2001 at 12:16 AM]

There are a host of reasons why such escorts aren't posting on this board. Perhaps they don't like *you* or feel there is any business to be had here. I'm not suggesting that those are necessarily the reasons, but I do think it is a bit presumptuous of you to imply that the lack of posts by such escorts is the fault of Littleguy or anyone else for that matter.

--WSB

[wsb]

Originally posted by guy catelli


1. the dogs that want to pee on as many fire hydrants as possible, in as many different positions as possible, as many times as possible, at the lowest price possible.

2. those who are seeking erotic companionship with a woman who, based upon her postings, is judged to have compatible interests, temperament, outlook on life and love, etc.



I can't help but feel that the above analysis is just a self-serving over-simplification of the matter, but I'll take a stab at my own overly-simplified version:

1.5 those seeking erotic companionship, in as many different positions as possible, as many times as possible, with a beautiful woman who has a compatible temperment and is highly professional, price commensurate with the quality of the experience, no hassle.

--WSB

[K.S.]

The things she said in her *** post are probably true for many or most escorts. If you've had a bad day, then it seems more so.

Anyway, some thoughts:

Trying to please everybody never works. What I mean is, you can and should TRY to the best of your abilities, but you can't always succeed. What sucks is that if you are less than stellar to one out of a dozen clients, those clients are going to complain on the Internet. If you are fanfuckingtastic to one out of a dozen, those clients are going to tell everyone about how you gazed adoringly into their eyes while licking the cum off your chin and then snuggled them for an extra hour off the clock. Neither description should be what the average client might expect.

Prostitutes sell more than just services, they sell a lot of emotional crap, as well. The men who see them want to be validated and made to feel special. Well, they're not all special. The ability to fake it depends on factors such as how good an actress the prostitute is, how tolerable the client is, and how sensitive the client is. There are actually some miserable fucks out there who KNOW that they are miserable, ugly, unlovable fucks and they can get pretty nasty when you try and pretend otherwise; they'll push you until you cry "uncle" and then they get to hate you for confirming that they're miserable unlovable fucks. In fact, they're not all that rare. I used to call them "elbow grabbers" because I learned that, for some men, the VERY thing you tell them you'd rather they didn't want to do would become their chief fetish. I used to tell them that I really, really hated having my elbows fondled and licked. This kept them busy and saved my sanity.

There are some prostitutes who love their work. They are rare enough that if the field were only limited to those qualified applicants, you would be paying far, far more per hour. And, even for these women, there are clients who simply cannot be enjoyed.

I'm thinking of the kind of sex I might have with someone I am really crazy about. I can imagine hours of giggling play in which I might well get it into my head to suck his toes just because his feet are adorable. Licking his asshole (after a fun mutual shower) seems reasonable. Falling asleep with him still inside me after we've finally exhausted ourselves is the way it ends. THAT would be my true GFE. Every time I saw a client and didn't want to do these things, I was lying to him. I didn't really love him. I didn't really think that he smelled delicious in that way that only objects of infatuation can smell. I didn't really want to touch as much of his body with as much of my body as I possibly could.


But that is what clients are looking for - a woman who gazes at him with soft, adoring eyes. A woman who is infatuated with him and finds every single fucking thing he does wonderful. A woman who loves him - PLUS she'll never get clingy and ask for him to love her back.

[justme]

Well, yeah.

I personally don't see anything wrong with a lie in that context. As I wrote before, it's mostly what I'm paying for. It's kind of a strange paradox. I think the best sessions are when the lie is believable. At the same time, I don't think anyone is well served if a client begins to believe the lie. I usually think of the whole thing as an hour long voluntary delusion.

Commercial sex is the fast food of eromantic interaction, no?

[littleguy]

K.S.

Welcome back. It's nice to *see* you again.

You described my ideal experience far better than I ever could.

While Mr Catelli calls me "mean spirited" every time I say something he doesn't agree with or a lady he likes doesn't agree with, he, IMO, will waste no opportunity to be "mean spirited" himself. Only difference is he is mostly mean spirited towards other hobbyists and not providers.

I think candie was being just a little disingenuous and self-serving (although I guess we all are sometimes, no ?) pointing out Lola's post and, in effect, saying something like "Oh, look at this terrible lady that hates men, aren't you guys glad we're not all like that ?".

While I agree somewhat with candie's main conclusion, that Lola *probably* hates men, generally I agreed with Lola's post, much to the horror of Mr Catelli, that ladies were, in fact, in this business *primarily* for the money (if not *only* for the money).

Now, the $180 for 20 minutes is another matter entirely.

Once again, welcome back.

LG

[Geezy Muldoon]

K.S.

Great post. Points out the limitations of paid sex and what it must feel like to be on the other side of the transaction quite nicely.

[TuckernotSucker]

Welcome back, I am still available LOL.

[Candide]

"...There are actually some miserable fucks out there who KNOW that they are miserable, ugly, unlovable fucks and they can get pretty nasty when you try and pretend otherwise; they'll push you until you cry "uncle" and then they get to hate you for confirming that they're miserable unlovable fucks...."

This got me thinking...because I used to think that some men didn't like nice women or women who were nice to them, they wanted women to walk all over them, figuratively speaking (maybe literally, who knows).

But this quote made me think about the "validation" K.S. mentioned...they want their unlovability acknowledged, then if you stick around and fuck them (cause they are paying you) some real connection is possible because everyone is being themselves....

Yeah...wow...I'm beginning to get it...thank's K.S...you're pretty preceptive y aknow?

Sorry about the quote...I know it rankles nerves, so I tried not to quote but it was necessary - CandiNYC (just so no one gets confused, I'm a biological woman, dressing and behaving like a woman...with no overwhelming case of penis envy that I'm aware of)

[candie]

yes what ks post had read was so very true and so very awakening ... though so sad to say it is so very true.

[Slinky Bender]

You know, the first time read it:"I'm a biological woman, dressing and behaving like a woman...with no overwhelming case of penis that I'm aware of"

[Ozzy]

i've been called a miserable, unlovable fuck.....

but never ugly.




:cool:

[gabriela]

[Edited by gabriela on 05-10-2001 at 10:40 PM]

[Ozzy]

if only they all knew me the way you do. see you tomorrow.

:cool: kisses baby :cool:


hey......what about the ugly part? well two out of three ain't bad.

[Edited by Ozzy on 04-27-2001 at 02:33 PM]

[Candide]

Well Slink, you know, in your message you left out "I read it..." and just said "read it..."... So it doesnt surprise me that you missed that word, 'envy'. I'd get that reading and writing dyslexia of yours checked out if I were you...toodles and kisses and bisous from Candi

[Edited by Candide on 04-27-2001 at 07:02 PM]

[Candide]

ooops - I can't get the hang of this - my, Slinky, what complex software you've got ! :)

[Edited by Candide on 04-27-2001 at 07:05 PM]

[Candide]

I know I'll get my "elbows grabbed" for this (to borrow a phrase from K.S.) but there is such a thing as sexy ugliness...I've met lots of guys who thought they were ugly but they were a turn on - but I never told them that cause they'd hate me for it....go figure...and guys think that women are hard to understand??? Sheeeesh. :)

[Candide]

Why is everyone so uptight on this board? You guys need to open up a massage parlor! Heavy duty Swedish style massages all around...I'm picking up tension just floating here in cyber space :)

[Slinky Bender]

It's that DSB again.

[Assman]

Originally posted by Candide
Why is everyone so uptight on this board? You guys need to open up a massage parlor! Heavy duty Swedish style massages all around...I'm picking up tension just floating here in cyber space :)


So, do you want to meet me in Long Island?

[robnotbob]

I've been told we look alike :)

[Slinky Bender]

So Ozzy, do you think RNB looks like you, or the guy who says he's you ?

[TuckernotSucker]

Everyone looks like Ozzy and Rob. Even Candide, just kidding.
I think what UG needs is a party. Hey SB My RSVP is positive.

[Ozzy]

oh noooo! that girl was much happier with the *real* ozzy. that other one was a few years older than me also.


:cool:

[robnotbob]

are you saying I'm nondescript??

[TuckernotSucker]

according to the girls we are all the same anyway. enjoy the scenery.

[littleguy]

I was with a provider a little while back. She's very personable, open and nice. During the course of our conversation we were talking about a number of things, among them how many clients she sees etc. She has a life and works outside the biz and doesn't see guys full time. When I asked her why she sees guys, she grinned and said very innocently, "The money's very nice".

Well, we discussed this exact situation (what this thread is about). Before I could even say it, she did. She said "Of course the money was the primary reason, she could get laid anytime she wants"

This lady is one of the sweetest ladies I've seen. She is a terrific GFE IMO.

The irony was so thick I just felt I had to share it here.

[Slinky Bender]

I was talking to a girl the other day, and she told me she likes her sessions because she actaully does want to have sex with all of the guys: she does that by telling herself that each guy is some guy she actually wants to have sex with, and then voila! .... she does. OTOH, she also told me that as soon as the session is over, she has compeltely forgotten every detail about it. I thought that was very interesting and I wondered what percentage of girls in the business do the same thing.

[curious]

Considering the prevalence of ritualized behavior implemented as acoping mechanism, I'd bet that percentage would be pretty high.

[nabbeun]

I think a high percentage of the girls who give a good session who you actually want to see a 2nd time are like this.

Rough guess on the breakdown (based on an amp cross-section):

45% hate what they are doing and it shows, but do it anyway cause the money is great;
53% is exactly what you describe above: she's good, but forgets you entirely once the session is over. these girls don't like what they are doing, but the money is great and as long as the guy is not totally disgusting can talk themselves into it. so they give a good session and you really think there may be some connection there. but to my longstanding theory, once you are not standing in front of them, for all intents and purposes, your don't exist anymore.
2% those who really allow themselves to have a good time (at least with you, maybe with all). they enjoy it, and the money is nice too. these are real keepers (but you still have to beware the hidden agenda)

fwiw, when i was in school this was a trick i used. whatever class you hated and were doing poorly, if you tell yourself, mentally and perhaps out loud that you liked it - enjoyed it - your actual words led the mind to follow, and performance improved. if you hate it, and allow yourself to acknowledge you hate it, improvement was always minimal for the effort expended.

[nabbeun]

also fwiw...have you ever had sex with someone you really didn't care to? put yourself in the right frame of mind, and you will find you can enjoy the actual act, but after couldn't pick them out of a lineup if your life depended on it.

[Bandaid]

It's also "I can induce some chumps to give me $180 for the same session." If Rachel changed her ad she wouldn't get as many calls. She knows it and chooses to deceive her customers, which is okay with her because she hates them anyway and knows she'll never get repeat business. There's providers who know they'll not get repeats and don't care.

I know it's a business, but business can be pleasant and provider and client can have some liking. I'd like it if a provider thought of me as a client she likes to see. That's all I ever hoped for in the hobby.

Hotpuppy, if your ATF actually enjoys you, it'll show over time. I don't think there is any way you can tell based on the one experience you relate.