BBFS - Eerily Similar - Skelly, you said it

[littleguy]

Skelley,

I wonder how many times situations like this actually happen ? As you probably recall there were 3 issues in the last incident. In this current (just finished ?) one there was only the one issue, apparently BBFS.

But somehow in this latest incident, postings were made regarding "brutality" and "rape" which now, apparently NEVER occurred.

There was a thread somewhere I remember about BBFS and whether it was wise to partake. I believe the consensus was that a hobbyist should always assume that a lady has had BBFS with SOMEONE and therefore whatever risk is present under such a situation you must assume is present every time you see ANY lady.

Presumably that makes BBFS something we should avoid.

As you said, "eerily similar". As you might expect I do not see any difference in the 2 incidents and my perspective is no different now than it was then.

Doesn't seem to have changed Ozzy's perspective either and I for one, don't blame him.

Ozzy, seems like you were right about her all along, no ? Interesting review..........

Good for you you're not involved, either.

Health,
LG


[Edited by littleguy on 03-29-2001 at 04:21 PM]

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by littleguy
Skelley,

I wonder how many times situations like this actually happen ? As you probably recall there were 3 issues in the last incident. In this current (just finished ?) one there was only the one issue, apparently BBFS.

But somehow in this latest incident, postings were made regarding "brutality" and "rape" which now, apparently NEVER occurred.

There was a thread somewhere I remember about BBFS and whether it was wise to partake. I believe the consensus was that a hobbyist should always assume that a lady has had BBFS with SOMEONE and therefore whatever risk is present under such a situation you must assume is present every time you see ANY lady.

Presumably that makes BBFS something we should avoid.

As you said, "eerily similar". As you might expect I do not see any difference in the 2 incidents and my perspective is no different now than it was then.

Doesn't seem to have changed Ozzy's perspective either and I for one, don't blame him.

Ozzy, seems like you were right about her all along, no ? Interesting review..........

Good for you you're not involved, either.

Health,
LG


LG, are you trying to have it just a little bit both ways here? you seem to imply that you're not talking about it -- at the same time that you actually are talking about it.

[littleguy]

G.C.

Must you cut and paste every post you reply to ? Don't you think the reader could "page up" to read the previous post ?

Anyway, I don't quite understand. You said "you (littleguy)seem to imply that you're not talking about it".

How did I imply I'm not talking about it ?

[Ozzy]

actually, about her......i was dead wrong.

about her situation.....i was never so right.




:cool:

[Phantom]

Littleguy,

A little hint about why GC ALWAYS "cuts and pastes" a post by another poster that he (GC) to replying to.

It's because he does not want the other poster to go back and edit the post that GC to refering to. I believe several posters have taken issue with things that GC has written only to have GC go back and edit his post that caused a problem.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Phantom
Littleguy,

A little hint about why GC ALWAYS "cuts and pastes" a post by another poster that he (GC) to replying to.

It's because he does not want the other poster to go back and edit the post that GC to refering to. I believe several posters have taken issue with things that GC has written only to have GC go back and edit his post that caused a problem.

if i agree with someone who points out that something is a problem, i edit it.

[Phantom]

...and THAT's why YOU always cut and paste others posts, so THEY CAN NOT get rid of the offending material completely. They can edit THEIR own posts, but can not delete the body of their own posts when YOU cut and paste it, since they can not edit the same material out of your posts.

[Edited by Phantom on 03-29-2001 at 05:46 PM]

[littleguy]

Phantom,

How come you never answered my e-mail ? You mad at me or somethin' ?

BTW, have I got a lead for you.

[Phantom]

Not mad at you or anybody else with the possible exception of GC. Just not answering ANY email. And I do not care to travel to Philly.

[Phantom]

I can get a very well known northern NJ escort for a longer period of time for only $200 more. And I don't have a chance of going to jail seeing her.

[Phantom]

Anyone ever been in a county jail? Let me tell you, it's not pleasant.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Phantom
...and THAT's why YOU always cut and paste others posts,

i never did until the last 24 hours.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Phantom
Not mad at you or anybody else with the possible exception of GC. Just not answering ANY email. And I do not care to travel to Philly.

{chuckling} man, you're mad at everybody!

[littleguy]

Phantom,

Who put a burr under your saddle ?

Yeesh.

[Phantom]

In regards to the topic of this thread, I've had a similar experience. Let me tell you the story and then you decide whether BBFS and more was offered.

I had become a regular of this one particular girl. I had seen this girl for close to a year and each meeting was never less then 24 hours. Sometimes it was for several days. This one meeting, which turned into our last took place a couple of yeas ago at my house at the NJ shore. I was sitting at one end of a sofa and she was lying on her side, completely naked with her head on my lap. We were watching a movie on TV.

She keep insisting that my hands roam over her naked body. At one point as my hands were stroking her ass, my finger came to rest on her puckered rosebud. No insertion, just on the outside. Since she said nothing or did nothing to stop this, I just continued what I was doing.

All of a sudden she jumps up and drags me into the bedroom, where she jumps on the bed into the classic doggie style postion. Legs spread, ass up in the air, and her head on the bed. She looks back at me and tells me that I can do, "whatever I want to her". OK. So I start making suggestions to see just how far she means.

At one point I asked her if it was OK for me to use this HUGE red jelly dildo on her. I had entirely for a novelity thing and it was HUGE. Before this she had told that she would NEVER use this. Any suggestion that I would make about doing whatever I wanted with her was met with the same answer, "you can do whatever you want with me", except for the last time when she added, "however you want".

Here was a girl who had NEVER been hinted at for doing greek and yet here she was offering it to me and I ask you was she offering it BB?

To wrap up this story, because of things she had said tp earlier in the day and she had a couple of drinks, and I do mean just a couple of glasses of wine, I figured that I would have another chance and I flipped her over and ate her for what seemed an eternity. I had seen her many times drink more and be more drunk then she was that night and she had NEVER acted like she did that night.

So I ask you, the other posters of this board, was I offered BBFS AND BBG that night?

[Tankcommander]

You are one DUMM FUCK!

No offense, just jealous I wasn't in your...well, since you weren't wearinf shoes....in your skin....LOL

[Phantom]

TC,

was that a yes? And it would totally floor you just who I'm talking about.

[littleguy]

I'd say that was a YES.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by littleguy
How did I imply I'm not talking about it ?

" ... In this current (just finished ?) one ..."

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by littleguy
.... in this latest incident, postings were made regarding "brutality" and "rape" which now, apparently NEVER occurred.

... As you might expect I do not see any difference in the 2 incidents ...

:confused:

[Tankcommander]

Originally posted by Phantom
Anyone ever been in a county jail? Let me tell you, it's not pleasant.

Fort Leavenworth, Queens Central Booking, Federal Administrative lockup...FCI's low to high...

and spending half of your sentence on "diesel therapy"

Never let them take your dignity!

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Tankcommander
Originally posted by Phantom
Anyone ever been in a county jail? Let me tell you, it's not pleasant.

Fort Leavenworth, Queens Central Booking, Federal Administrative lockup...FCI's low to high...

and spending half of your sentence on "diesel therapy"

Never let them take your dignity!

{chuckling} i was locked up three time before i was even out of high school -- and i went to the kind of school where that didn't happen (but, like SB said, i'm a 'special case' ;)). no big deal -- weapons, auto theft -- kid stuff.

now, just between one 'jailhouse lawyer' and another, what do you think of a client who is, by all accounts, Mr. Soave with escorts, yet gets his personal information outed by two different escorts in less than two months?

and, i just did a search on *** ny escorts. Alyssa's never explained 'accident' occurred right around the time of her date with Mr. Soave.

why do you think so many bad things happen to so many good escorts when he's around them?

oh, just to tie this in with Phantom's question, in almost 30 years at this thing of ours, with ~100 women (who counts?), not one single 'accusation' has been made against a 'devil' with two left feet like me. :confused:

[SkellyChamp]

Ozzy
I respect your forthrightness re: the girl - and that you wouldn't have done anything differently.

Littleguy - i'm wondering (not suggesting) whether the fact that it happened again (the exposure I mean) gave you a slight sense of satisfaction - vindication wise i mean. i probably didn't say that right but you know what i mean.

And I have been offered BBFS.

[Tankcommander]

The stuff I did didn't catch up with me till I was 25...

I was hanging with the wrong crowd, and ended up as security for a couple of "Wiseguys". I'm not Italian, not even white, and I always wore a Sears suit and a crew cut... that got me out of a lot of potential trouble. Until, one day, the wiseguy started talking.... Luckily, I had no involvement in their day to day stuff and thus, drew a very light sentence, but leading up to that... whew, stuff you only saw in movies that you didn't think they did in real life.

And guy, either there's a lot of bad Karma around this guy, or there's a conspiracy against him...

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Tankcommander
.... guy, either there's a lot of bad Karma around this guy, or there's a conspiracy against him...

uh huh ... well, let me ask you this: would you still want to go to a drinking party with him?

[Tankcommander]

built and disarmed bombs, and traded bullets with someone who didn't like me...

The most dangerous thing I ever did was let a girlfriend blow me only hours after she found pictures of me having sex with another woman.

Drinks with strangers?

I can take my chances with that especially if there are others around that I trust...

even so, none of it's been proven yet...

Discretion is the better part of valor. I never said I was brave, just stupid.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Tankcommander
Drinks with strangers?

I can take my chances with that especially if there are others around that I trust...

no disrespect to Ozzy; but, i don't even want him to be able to i.d. me. cause then, i'd have to keep my mouth shut if i heard too many things from too many 'conspirators' that have never even heard of one another.

[Tankcommander]

Be careful of what you say, not who you know, or what you know...

They can only convict you if they have you on tape...

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Tankcommander
...They can only convict you if they have you on tape...

uh huh -- and only if the complainant is someone willing to take the stand and testify.

NYS Penal Code. Art. 130

S 130.35 Rape in the first degree.
A person is guilty of rape in the first degree when he or she engages
in sexual intercourse with another person:
................; or
2. Who is incapable of consent by reason of being physically helpless; or .........

.... Rape in the first degree is a class B felony.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/nycodes/law82/art29.html

[Tankcommander]

that provides that you cannot be convicted upon the testimony of co-conspirators alone...

rape has nothing to do with what we're talking about right now...

But while we're on the subject, you planning on raping a hobbyist?


[Edited by Tankcommander on 03-30-2001 at 02:17 AM]

[guy catelli]

hey, here's one for you:

A puts a micky-finn in B's drink, for the purpose of engaging in uncovered sexual intercourse with her while she is unconscious. B drinks the micky-finn. however, before intercourse occurs, B passes out and falls, injuring herself. She loses a month's work as a result. What is A's liability?

[Edited by guy catelli on 03-30-2001 at 09:07 AM]

[Carl M]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tankcommander
[B]built and disarmed bombs, and traded bullets with someone who didn't like me..

Tank what kinda tank did you go into, was there ordinance in there also! Talk about GUTS and GLORY!!

[Ezrlove]

Guy Wrote:

"hey, here's one for you:

A puts a micky-finn in B's drink, for the purpose of engaging in uncovered sexual intercourse with her while she is unconscious. B drinks the micky-finn. however, before intercourse occurs, B passes out and falls, injuring herself. She loses a month's work as a result. What is A's liability?"


Guy, I just lost total respect for you. Not that it matters. I am only one person.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Ezrlove
Guy Wrote:

"hey, here's one for you:

A puts a micky-finn in B's drink, for the purpose of engaging in uncovered sexual intercourse with her while she is unconscious. B drinks the micky-finn. however, before intercourse occurs, B passes out and falls, injuring herself. She loses a month's work as a result. What is A's liability?"

Guy, I just lost total respect for you. Not that it matters. I am only one person.

what can i tell you, EZ. we're in a Bear Market these days. your stock took a hit at the time of the Princess Claudy affair; hit some turbulence around the time of a certain LI escort's mysterious 'accident', and has been in 'free fall' ever since this last incident.

[Turbo]

Not entirely sure of where this thread was headed . . . but BBFS just doesn't make sense. The dangers just don't seem to outweigh the short term "returns". I know that heat of the moment is tough to overcome . . . but if she's doing it BBFS with you . . . be assured that you are likely not the only one. So just imagine having BBFS with "Bob" lol and that should stop you.

[Tankcommander]

Hey, any death that occurs in the commission of a felony is Murder... isn't it? isn't there some sort of derivative from that? What's A slipping a mickey for anyway... I think A needs a beatdown LOL.

As for the tank, it was during training, I was the driver, located under the gun, away from the main crew compartment. There was an electrical fire the automatic exstinguishers failed to fire themselves, They then fired the hand held extinguishers which knocked the loader unconscious because he had begun to suffocate. The commander and the gunner ditched and did not notice the loader did not get out of the tank. The fire had slowed down a bit due to all that Halon being fired off.
I was still on top of the tank, so I climbed in, and picked the guy up so that the gunner and the commander could drag him out... All I can say is thank God for Nomex and cooling vests...

This one I did cause the guy owed me 20 bucks and I was broke...

[Edited by Tankcommander on 03-30-2001 at 02:14 PM]

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by guy catelli
Originally posted by Ezrlove
Guy, I just lost total respect for you. Not that it matters. I am only one person.

... your stock took a hit at the time of the Princess Claudy affair; .....

ref: http://209.164.24.17/newyork/posts/21426.html

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Tankcommander
This one I did cause the guy owed me 20 bucks and I was broke...

did you get a ribbon?

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Tankcommander
Hey, any death that occurs in the commission of a felony is Murder... isn't it? isn't there some sort of derivative from that? ....

S 125.25 Murder in the second degree.

A person is guilty of murder in the second degree when:

..... 3. Acting either alone or with one or more other persons, he commits or attempts to commit ... rape in the first degree, sodomy in the first degree, sexual abuse in the first degree, ... and, in the course of and in furtherance of such crime he .... causes the death of a person .....

......Murder in the second degree is a class A-I felony.

.....What's A slipping a mickey for anyway... I think A needs a beatdown LOL.

me no spiga inglish. :cool:


[Edited by guy catelli on 03-30-2001 at 02:30 PM]

[Carl M]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tankcommander
[B]Hey, any death that occurs in the commission of a felony is Murder... isn't it? isn't there some sort of derivative from that? What's A slipping a mickey for anyway... I think A needs a beatdown LOL.

As for the tank, it was during training, I was the driver, located under the gun, away from the main crew compartment. There was an electrical fire the automatic exstinguishers failed to fire themselves, They then fired the hand held extinguishers which knocked the loader unconscious because he had begun to suffocate. The commander and the gunner ditched and did not notice the loader did not get out of the tank. The fire had slowed down a bit due to all that Halon being fired off.
I was still on top of the tank, so I climbed in, and picked the guy up so that the gunner and the commander could drag him out... All I can say is thank God for Nomex and cooling vests...

This one I did cause the guy owed me 20 bucks and I was broke...

Cool, now I know why you were a hero- LOL!

[Tankcommander]

B][/QUOTE]did you get a ribbon? [/B][/QUOTE]

No, we kept it quiet so that the other two didn't get crap for ditching the tank and not looking out for the loader... but I did get me 20, and dinner from the boys.

[littleguy]

Skelly,

Vindication because of this latest incident ? No not really. I had already come to terms with the incident of 4 months ago fairly soon after the incident.

As I started off this thread I made reference to another thread in another place about a discussion of whether providers ever do BBFS. Using that discussion and its responses as a basis for understanding whether what had occurred was, on a scale of 1-10, 1 being freakishly abnormal and 10 being, say, happens all the time, this BBFS incident, taking into consideration the "not totally sober" element of the two participants, would fall somewhere around 8. Had they both been totally sober the number would be somewhere around 5 or maybe a bit less.

In either case, apparently a more frequent occurrence than would generally be believed around here.

I was offered BBFS once while totally sober and very politely said "No thanks".


Guy,

When I said "in this current (just finished ?) one" I was referrring to the thread that the APM CLOSED, not that I wouldn't discuss it.

Sorry for the confusion.



When I said "... in this latest incident, postings were made regarding "brutality" and "rape" which
now, apparently NEVER occurred. ... As you might expect I do not see any difference in the 2 incidents "

Apparently you "frowned in frustration", indicating you didn't understand what I was talking about, no ?

I'm not sure why you even bothered. Do you think you absolutely have to be let in on everything ? There are clearly many posts on this board that are privately understood by certain members and not others. One member even started a thread making reference to all the "secret handshakes" (I think he called it) and said he was tired of them. I am a little also. I guess I always want to know everything also but I've resigned myself to the fact that I will not. Maybe you should also.

Now I know what icon to use when I respond to most of your posts. Hahahahaha

Anyway, the previous incident to which I referred, which I will not relate in its entirety, was simply a case of BBFS between 2 people that were not entirely sober, virtually IDENTICAL to what happened here. Because of the FACTS not coming out, posters were making their opinions known based on all sorts of speculation and innuendo, which is apparently EXACTLY what happened this time to Ezrlove, if in fact the "brutality" and "rape" claims were made (since I didn't see them but apparently Ezrlove did).

Now it turns out that all that happened was BBFS. Now, don't bother getting outraged and accusing me of making light of the BBFS incident. I'm not making any judgment here whether it is or is not. I merely making the observation that it is CLEARLY nowhere near as pernicious (Is that the right word GC?) as BBFS.

Somehow I don't think pernicious is the right word. I guess that's what happens when you're trying to show off.

[Ozzy]

not to keep harping on this stupid subject since this thread (now complete with drugging and rape accusations) should be closed and deleted(yeah, i said deleted), but........

this and the issue 4 months ago serve as one shining example of what not to do while you're in a session......

and this goes for the ladies as well as the gentlemen, since it takes two to tango.........

DON'T GET YOURSELF SHIT FACED DRUNK BEFORE YOU FUCK!

thats what pregnant teenagers, montel williams and sally jessie are for.



:cool:

[Tankcommander]

I once had very strong feelings for a provider. I wouldn't say love, but it was a very intense fondness. We both felt the same way at the time, so although business was still business, she saw me at a great discount, and we both got tested for STD's and when the tests came back negative, we got another test done several months later to confirm the results. After that set was done, we partook of BBFS and did so often...

it was our way of showing to each other that our interaction was special, and that this was different.

The testing part was, of course mandatory nowadays even for normal relationships so we weren't fazed. This also takes care of the main problem of the Client-Provider interaction... Disease.

Granted, before everyone goes out and asks their favorite providers to go have an HIV test with them, this does violate the Client-Provider business relationship. This is like asking a provider to marry you and will usually be met with rejection.

[Ozzy]

it's not a matter of BBFS being right or wrong. it's a matter of whether it's consensual......


if you're too drunk to know, then it's never consensual.




:cool:

[littleguy]

Ozzy,

Completely agree with 8:39 PM post.

Agree with first line of 6:32 AM post.

Disagree with your resultant conclusion in the 2nd line.

[Ozzy]

littleguy...

it works both ways. it wasn't ment at all towards you or anyone else in general......but, if she's drunk to the point that she doesn't know (and this is not in anyway directed to either of these cases (SINCE I WASN'T THERE))....isn't that considered non consensual in the eyes of the law?

LG...you're a lawyer..right.....? whats it say about people who aren't of sound mind or under the influence and can't make a proper judgment?


now totally off topic, but a question for the lawyers out there....

why is it that in some past cases, people have been exonerated for crimes because they were not coherent at the time(either by drugs or alcohol)...yet if your blasted and get behind the wheel of a car...you're totally at fault?

ok i'm stepping of my soapbox for today....

[SkellyChamp]

Ozzy

Do you mean other than the laws which make it a crime to drive while intoxicated or under the influence? Or that while in such condition you are wielding a 3000+ lb weapon made of steel.

[Edited by SkellyChamp on 04-01-2001 at 01:21 AM]

[littleguy]

Actually Oz, I'm not a lawyer. I know your point is not directed at me.

I guess I can understand your inferrence to it not being consensual when the lady is, because of, let's say alcohol, not in complete control of her faculties, but what about when the guy ALSO is not in complete control of his ? While you may still make the argument it is not consensual, who's fault is it then ? That seems to have been the case in BOTH stories.

Skelly,

Not to defend DUI, but your reference to a 3000+ pound weapon implies intent, no ? I would think that DUI is mostly a matter of bad (impaired) judgement. Not that that makes any difference to anybody that driver has killed or maimed. People make mistakes when their judgement is impaired. Hell we ALL make mistakes when we are thinking quite clearly.

BTW, Skelly, I just re-read the entire (now closed) thread entitled "An open note to one of the boys" and saw (again) your very-late-in-the-thread (remarkable ?) compliment to GC re his post.

You may also note that there was a 2nd remarkably lucid post of his immediately after your compliment. Very clearly thought out and remarkably well stated. This being, of course, from my point of view since I think I actually understood 100% of both posts.

[SkellyChamp]

Littleguy

i'm not sure i understand your distinction re: DUI and intent. Can't the same be said of DWI.

I have no problem saying if i agree with GC or just like something he says. Besides the rarer something is the more special it is.


[Edited by skellychamp on 04-02-2001 at 02:13 AM]

[littleguy]

Skelly,

I'm not making any distinction between DUI or DWI. I'm simply saying that the real reason for that vehicle becoming a 3000+ pound weapon is poor judgement, i.e. getting behind the wheel when we shouldn't. We all show poor judgement from time to time, no ?

[SkellyChamp]

Well I was responding to Ozzy who was questioning why some people get away with somthing which turns bad because they are drunk or stoned and DWI or DUI. A lot of the difference for me comes from putting others at risk when you are DWI or DUI

[littleguy]

Skelly,

I'm sure Ozzy will correct me if I'm wrong but I think his point was that some things done under the influence of certain substances can be excused and others, such as DUI/DWI are automatically prosecuted to the fullest extent.

Ozzy said "when people are exonerated for crimes" I took that to mean something that does hurt others adn therefore equated it to DWI, which certainly also can hurt others too.

I guess the simple answer is that they're both prosecuted according to the laws on the books. To me, the real question really is, Why are DWI and other crimes under the influence NOT prosecuted in the same manner with the same (or similar) penalties ? Why would one perp "get away with" causing certain harmful things to occur BECAUSE he was under the influence while a DWI gets prosecuted BECAUSE he was under the influence since the underlying cause of BOTH incidents is really BAD JUDGEMENT, that is, of course, being under the influence in the first place.

I'm still not sure I explained this correctly but I'm not going to re-write it.

[Slinky Bender]

Is this the appropriate time to resurrect this thread ?????

[Ezrlove]

Why resurrect this post???

Am I missing something?

[Phantom]

NO!

[SkellyChamp]

Out of lurking
This thread has my name on it
Better left unressurected

[Eye Won]

Is there a point to this thread popping up... Im a little confused?