The current state of pricing in NYC

[Slinky Bender]

As with almost everything else in NYC, in my eyes the cost of the hobby has skyrocketed in recent years. In the last "boom market" of the mid-80's, there were still lower to mid level incall houses ( Julie's level ) where you could get a split session ( 1/2 hour with each of two girls ) for $90. Today, it seems the lower end of incall is the mid $200's.

It's hard to find a decent indy for less than $300/hr, and most agencies with nice talent seem to be verging on $1K !!!!!!

Well, all of a sudden, NASDAQ is down 50% and Jim Cramer in predicting a recession on the cover of NY magazine. What effect will this have on the hobby ? To what extent is the hobby "disposable income" driven and to what extent is it risk and cost driven ? ( because the costs of Real Estate and advertising are not going down so fast even if income takes a quick pop ).

It also seems to me that we have seen an increase in quality ( looks whise ) of the ladies who have entered the profession in the 90's. If prices do go down, will this trend reverse itself ? Are these ladies only here because of the staggering prices, or will they stick around even if things don't hold up ?

[mr. wonderful]

Did anyone ever see the movie "Working Girls". No, not the one with Melanie Griffith, this was about a bordello. In fact, it was about a bordello that I used to go to all the time. The girl running the place was Susan, and it was located in the mid 20's on the East side of Manhattan.

She always had GREAT looking girls on staff, and it was only $50 for a half and $80 for an hour. Back then I was too cheap to pay for an hour LOL. Now look what we're paying. Porno stars charging over $1,000, average looking girls charging $350 to $500. I have learned that just because a girl charges more, her service is not always as good or better than a lower priced girl.

In retrospect, the only girl that I have seen who was worth the $5 bills I paid her was Vanity. I have a feeling that Sterling of Ft. Lauderdale will be added to that list next year.

Still, it doesn't change the fact that alot of us need second jobs just to afford to get laid. I remedy my personal situation by taking extended leaves of absence from the hobby on occasion, unless there is something too good to pass up. As a group, maybe we have the power to change some of the pricing structures now in place. Or am I just whistling dixie? But between rising rates and the problems with the stock market, alot of us are being priced out of the hobby.

MW

[dataman]

I hear you. This is one instance that NY may not be higher than other parts of the country.

I'm a southern boy who visits providers in New Orleans, Memphis, Nashville, and Huntsville, Ala. Prices are $200 to $250 an hour. Prices at some of the FS spas are less at 150 for session.

Paying for the attention of a lady is great if she is attentive, not rushed and adventureous. I feel cheated when they rush or act in a manner that their time is more valuable that yours. Fortunately, Most of the ladies are not this way.

Back to the prices, it seems we have to do more homework in selecting providers to assure we get our money's worth.

[frog]

Perhaps it is just that NY girls get more traffic or perhaps I only hear about the more famous small town girls but the difference in pricing [or more accurately, the lack thereof] between NYC and small towns has always amazed me. It makes NYC so cheap to live in!!

Personally, I have only been hobbying for 2+ years or so and do not think that the NYC pricing structure aside from uzo is so outrageous at all.

[pswope]

It would be interesting to see how the increase in cost of a "date" over the past 20 years compares,on a percentage basis, with the increase in cost of other items of entertainment.

Also,a question to the ladies(both indep****ts and agencies):
What criteria do you use when setting your rates?

[fletch]

I wouldn't call the 200 to 300 dollar average "outrageous". What troubles me more is the number of girls that are charging $400 + when they clearly aren't offering anything more that the average $250 girl.

But it is a pointless exercise, really. They simply charge what guys are willing to pay.

[pswope]

At least in NY,the second half of 2001 will perhaps show the slowing of price inflation due to 2 factors
1) This(2000)year could be the last year of mega Wall Street bonuses,which fuel inflation at the upper end of the spectrum(high priced agencies and indies). The mid-,market ladies "draft" behind the prices for the uppermarket ladies(just like Appier getting $10MM a year drafting behind Hampton and Mussina).As the number of customers willing to pay the higher rates decrease,prices will hopefully stabilize as well.
2). The end of the Giuliani era. It appears that a significant number of providers either left NYC or the biz due to the highly increased risk of LE action. Once the era is over the number of providers will increase,the risk cost to the madames will decrease,and hoefully prices stabilize or dare I say decrease as a result of these 2 factors.


As an aside,just to be clear,I make no judgement here on the relationship between price and quality of service.

[Ozzy]

it'll slow but it won't go down......(no pun int) ;)

[Ozzy]

it makes me feel soo cool that i can do this.....;) :o :( :)



[Edited by Ozzy on 12-12-2000 at 06:14 PM]

[ValerieXXX]

You guys crack me up!!!! Remember something, this is our profession! It is our bodies, our time and certainly when I tour, my money that I am laying out to pay for ailines, hotel, and not some dump either, transportation, food and all that other crap! I think my rates, (I am not taliking for others) are more than fair.

You know, put yourselves in our shoes. The reason we charge what we do is very obvious. We take the risk! We can fall into the wrong hands, which has happened to countless women here (abuse, rape, robbery, being killed) LE, and the ever important social stigma that this industry provides us You know where we are called nasty things. You bet if I have tpo put up with all that shit not to mention the heavy demands put on me?, I want to be compensated. Before you bitch about rates, "Walk the walk " before you" talk the talk." See what you would charge. Not to be too harsh, but c'mon!!!!! :0)

[ValerieXXX]

ooops lots of spelling errors!!! My screen is near the my windows.

[badz]

Val,
after watching deuce bigalow:american gigolo (and yes, i love that movie)... i don't think many of us can walk in your shoe... not for any price.

all i can say about people who bitch'in about the price inflation, are the one that whine about not able to get some...hey life isn't fair... some have more, some have less, so if you can't pay, then don't play... bitch'in ain't gonna get you anywhere, getting a second, third, forth job or something will... if you're lucky, buying a lottery ticket once in awhile will increase your chance of getting "there" slightly... but if you get caught by your wife or someone...then it put your right back to where you were....(opps, have a habit of rambling bout nothing here....)

anyway, my point is that, if price is too high, it doesn't take a genius for the girls to figure out on their own...to lower it and drum up some biz.

[MrNY]

now you're talkin'.........

:)

But seriously, as we all know - you get what you pay for...

Val is absolutley correct !!

And, to "put yourselves in (her)our shoes" - would even want to meet/have dinner/drinks with some of the Jag/*** guys - much less, "boink" them !??!



[Edited by MrNY on 12-16-2000 at 08:39 PM]

[Slinky Bender]

MrNY,
I thought it was their panties that you usually liked to try on, not their shoes........

Perhaps you should speak to Marla Maples.

[fletch]

Val, first, we are discussing, not bitching. Second, even if we are bitching -who cares? A girl will and *should* charge as much as she can get. I don't think anyone here would dispute that and certainly not with the argument that it is "unfair".

[frog]

no offense Valerie, and remember that I think that the prices are fair, but where else can a girl easily net 150k a year taxfree [!] without formal training or education? Yes, there are dangers and it is not easy work, but is it more dangerous than firefighting or being a cop, etc? I would think that being killed, robbed, or raped is the exception, not the rule. Especially if you work for an agency.

I believe that for certain women. if she has a proper mindset about sex for pay, there is no comparable career that is as financially rewarding. Not even close. Now there is the fact that not everyone *can* do this job, certainly I wouldn't want to, but partly because I have other alternatives.

Note that I am not saying that you yourself cannot earn this money elsewhere -- I do not know if you can or not. What I am saying is that there is scope for prices to fall because I believe that there are more women who are able to enter this field.

Of course, the stock market can also take off tomorrow and we will keep pushing the top prices higher, and this can even happen concurrently with average prices falling.

[Slinky Bender]

fletch,
I think you are right, in the sense that my origianl post was not "things are too expensive!", but "what do you think will happen in the future if the economy tanks like everyone is saying it will?".

It's not that I don't think the ladies should charge as much as they are now. The question is what will happen to the hobby if most guy's disposable income declines precipitously. Remember, for a lot of people, fixed expenses don't change rapidly even in a recession ( your mortage, car payments, etc remain the same ), so a 20% drop in income can mean a 100% drop in disposable income. That type of event could impact the supply side in this hobby severely.

I think an interesting question is whether, when/if this happens, if a lot of ladies will hold tight to their pricing, do less sessions, make a lot less money, and have to find other work to supplement ( or leave the business altogether ). Or, will the decreased cost that will also occur allow for lower prices, and will the ladies adopt different pricing sturctures to match ?

I remember in the early 90's, there were quite a few NY Law Firms that were handling $200,000 deals who wouldn't even talk to you in 1986 if you brought them a deal under $1 million. Lots of restaurants and clubs closed. So, when Val sais "I am laying out to pay for ailines, hotel, and not some dump either, transportation, food and all that other crap!" I agree that it costs a fortune now. But what if a week in NYC cost $1000 for the hotel instead of $$3000, the arifare cost $200 instead of $700, the food ( at decent places ) cost $1000 instead of $3000. If a lady could spend $4-5000 less in expenses for a week, would it mke sense to tour NYC at lower prices, rather than say "I can't go to NYC because I can't book enough sessions to make it work"? Or will they not even look at the revenue vs expense equation when the decision is made ?

Same for the NYC houses. If they can spend $5,000 less per month for their fixed expenses, will they "pass it on" and do more sessions, or "tough it out" and try to make up for fewer sessions with higher prices ?

And what "should" they do ?

[hannahofnashville]

I get a bit tired of people assuming that *we* don't pay taxes. Maybe some providers don't, but the smart ones will. I pay taxes on everything, and I count my airline, hotel, transportation, etc. right along as expense deductions. I run a legitimate business, why shouldn't I?

As an aside, hello to everyone - I am glad to have found this site. It looks wonderful, Slinkybender...thanks for giving us the opportunity to "cohabitate". :^)

Love,

Hannah of Nashville

[Slinky Bender]

Anyone who earns a substantial cash income and doesn't declare at least some postion of it, better not be buying any substantial consumer goods. The only way you can really get away with earning large amounts of money and declariing zero is to stuff it all away in your mattress ( ok, safe deposit box ).

If you use credit cards or conspicously consume ( car, house, Amex bill ) there's a good chance you will eventually get nailed. Just ask Al Cappone........

[ValerieXXX]

First off hello Hannah!!! Glad to sse you here :0)

Now guys, I pay taxes, I have a business certificate, I take credit cards, I am a legal business. The IRS see everything that goes through my accounts, and honey, I have everything justified. Yes some do not pay, but as the lovely Hannah said the smart ladies do.

Now I do not do this because I can't do anything else. Now having said that I pay taxes and have a legal business means just that, I work sometimes 18 hours a day, that does not include the 7 years as an EMT-D Volunteer, the Now second business I own, yes it is a corporation and I started it with a couple of others with the money I made providing. You know what that means? I gave people jobs and health benifits, that is called giving back to people because of the priviledge I have in the work I do as an entertainer. I do not dispute the fact that there are some that have taken advantage of others and maybe thet is the underlying reason for some bitterness I do see (very subtle) But not all of us are "locker room jockstraps" and I for one don't apreciate being considered as such with all that I have put back into the industry, sometimes at the expense of my child who has special needs and is quite demanding and tiring.

[fletch]

sb, should the economy take that turn, I think they would probably try to keep prices where they are and only drop them if business really dropped off. I would think fewer sessions at higher prices are better for both independents and agencies.

But that is an excellent observation re: discretionary income dropoff. Today there are a lot of players in this game (myself included) who would be cruising Roosevelt Avenue if it weren't for the boom of the last few years.

[hot4chicks]

Utility theory suggests that providers will charge what the market will bear. Substitution theory suggests that as prices pass certain points ,buyers will substitute other goods. In other words, because Godiva chocolates cost $50 a pound, dont blame Godiva, go buy Mounds.

Same applies here. I can drink Stoli vodka at home for maybe $15 a bottle, or go to the Oak Room and drink at $12 a drink. I do both. Why? Cause i wanna and can afford it........

< free plug for oak room>

[pswope]

Val
I'm glad you're posting here. Have always respected your straightforward approach to escort/client relations and your willingness to post the truth,where it was not necessarily in your best financial interests to do so. Hopefully,your honesty will be contagious and we can have an open and flame(/fluffball) free dialogue between escorts and clients on this board.

I absolutely understand and agree that you and all other escorts,who honestly ply their trade, are entitled to be compensated at whatever the market will bear. I ask this in an effort to try to understand your mindset and perhaps the mindset of other escorts.

Assume,for whatever reason,a decrease in the number of clients willing or able to pay the fee you currently charge.
Would you
1)Lower your fee
2)Keep your fee but see fewer clients
3. Do something different?

[hot4chicks]

I'd suggest she raise her prices to comp for lost wages and declare herself a 'super-premium' brand.
I bet she;d get a waiting list and guys who wouldnt pay before would suddenly find the extra cash. Its all a question of knowing your market-positioning, so to speak.

I still dont get guys who argue prices in the market. This isnt eBay.

h4c, thinking he's seen this discussion before

[ValerieXXX]

eBay, ROTFLMAO!!!! Now that is funny. well in all fairness, there have been some friends that I have seen since the beginning at a lower rate (First started) They have given me their loyalty and I in turn show my appreciation. I always try to make it a habit to work through a friend's financial times, when times are bad, and they have consistantly seen me, of course I extend something we both can agree on.

Of course I am talking about those who have seen me through it all, as for newbies, well if you lower your price, then you get the what internet indies call the "yellow page"clients. They are the ones that agencies send women to all hours of the night, you know guys doing drugs and stuff I have been terribly abused by that, it almost cost me my life.( Thanks to a fast thinking Paramedic, I am still here.) they are the ones that will kill you, one tried.

This is stuff you gotta keep in mind when you deal with Indies, most of us went through the "boot camp" with agencies, we all wanted something different when we left them, sometimes it costs a little more, but in the end we are the ones who truly appreciate being able to please only true gentlemen, that you guys should be thankful for. get it?

[hot4chicks]

Although all professions expect people to "do their time", why dont chicks just pick up clients along the way and charge exhorbitant amounts and then discount depending upon their income needs or availability?

It's done in most industries - everyone gets a deal off the rack rate - everyone feels they get the better deal and life goes on. And when someone pays the rack rate, providers should just smile.

[Slinky Bender]

"rack rate"

Is that a pun ?

[ValerieXXX]

Wha??????? Dude this isn't Wal Mart!!!!!!! I think things should stay the way they are! Geez! You can't expect to even try to understand what the heck goes through our heads, besides, you try this!!!! I bet you would be charging a fortune after your first encounter!.................

Wait! That gives me an Idea!! what do you say (now any one jump in here) You try it. I am, serious! Turn the tables. YOU be the provider, go on dates for a night. Now we have to go through the lagistics here on how you would get clients and such, but really guys, who among you has the balls to work for a night? THAT IS MY CHALLENGE!!!!!!!!

[Slinky Bender]

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, but no pictures.

[MrNY]

THAT would be funnier than renting Deuce Bigalow again...

[pswope]

Val
I did try it. Advertised in Town & Country Magazine as a country squire. Only bite I got was a 75 year old dowager,with more wrinkles than a sharpei. When I couldn't maintain an erection,had to service her orally. After paying off the dental bills for the TMJ,I wound up losing $$$ on the transaction.
No one disputes all of the difficulties that escorts encounter. But these things have existed as long as the profession without the premium being added for it.

As I said before,if the market will bear the rates charged by you ladies,then god bless. In my mind,you're no different than the lawyers,who've raised their rates because of the increased demand of a booming economy.
But now ,as things cool down,perhaps it's time for some deflation.

Maybe some brilliant john will launch a priceline.com for escorts and clients.

[hot4chicks]

Val- My point is not to make this eBay or Walmart, its more to say its a business, and you choose your clients - just like a lawyer or doctor.

And as a business you need a strategy and a vision, or else, you just bounce along hoping to make money.

sb- Yes, it was intended as a pun.

h4c, who thinks graphs rule the world

[Slinky Bender]

pswope,
That, to some extent is what we had in mind for the "Need something today" section here. At some point ( I guess when we get more regular visitors here ), that section could help those looking for last minute ( well not last minute ) appointments get together with ladies who had holes in their schedules.

The concept is that a guy would post that he is looking for an appointment today, a location and a price range. A lady could decide to "pick up" that appointment, if she so chose, even if it were not her "usual rate", as a "one shot deal" ( meaning one time only, not having anything to do with the ubiquitous "cups of coffeee" ). In addtion, it does give the lady the option of "picking and choosing" which guys to do this with.

I guess the idea is that if someone had a bunch of cancellations or whatever, they could salvage something out of the day rather than it being a total waste. I mean, once a day is over, the chances of making anything off that day are over, right ?



[Edited by slinkybender on 06-25-2001 at 02:40 PM]

[pswope]

So in another words if a provider or agency had some quiet time(s),for whatever reason,they could choose to fill it by reaching an understanding with an inquiring prospect?
I assume all of this,except for the initial reachout is invisible to everyone but the participants?

[Slinky Bender]

That's the idea. Only the initial "reach out" would occur here. After that, it would be between "the two parties". No one would ever have to know that anyone got any "discount" or what have you. No one would be required to give any discounts. No one would be required to participate whatsoever.

The idea is simply that if a guy had a need on short notice, and if a girl had some time available and wanted to fill that time quickly, they could take advantage of a mutual opportunity.

[ValerieXXX]

Wait, Slinky, you got a T shirt? Did you read into the challenge, I said YOU be the provider!!! Hahahaaaaaaaa!!

Mr NY. I saw that movie, dude! I never laughed so hard!!!! Yep, that's what we need some man whores!!!! What was with the pimp and the way he ate? GOD!!!!!

OK so who is going to step up?

[ValerieXXX]

oops, didn't see the other page!!! OK I can validate the brave soul that did actually go out . So how many wrinkles?

[Slinky Bender]

Val,

I read what you wrote. Why would you assume I didn'tunderstand it ?????

[pswope]

Val
My therapist has told me not to discuss it any further. Too many ugly flashbacks
btw-without naming names or giving facts that would identify the person,what was the worst session you ever had(other than being the victim of violence or something over the top like that)?

[ValerieXXX]

In all seriousness I have experienced all of the worst, rape, poisoning, kidnap, stalking, (forced entry North, Carolina tour, attemted rape), I think these are the worst that any woman can face.

As for the lighter side? well, people that are too handsy when they (or I) first walk in, they don't have that shower fresh smell, (Dude I dry heaved on someone, lucky I had nothing in my stomach!!!) I mean these are things that I can laugh at!!!! The other stuff, well I did have nightmares, some real bad ones (NY TOUR recent) It could mess you up for a long time. Other than the wrinkly one, I hope you did not experience any of these!!!!!

[wimpy]

Val,

I like your challange. Ten years ago I would have taken you up on it. It reminds me of a provider I was with about a year. This particular provider was from Amsterdam and after the session she told me that I could go to Amsterdam and women would pay for a session with me. Now, she could have been blowing smoke up my ass. But I am schedule to be in Amsterdam for five days March with some of my friends. I'll tell you if it is true. BTW, when you are back, let me know.

Wimpy
A Val Fan

[ValerieXXX]

Hey take me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude, go for it!! You are very brave and you have my highest respect!!!!

Guys, I mean no harm it is that in order to understand the provider (male or female) you have to put yourself in their world. Past present And future. It is not hard to do and you will gain better insight, My friend Wimpy will go for it! Now when are you going? Wimpy you might need working papers.

[Slinky Bender]

Anyone see any parellels with us ????

As Audiences Discover Frugality, Pop Culture Starts Feeling a Chill (http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/31/arts/31DOLD.html)

[ew]

I hate that.
synopsis anyone?

[CindySpice]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by frog
but where else can a girl easily net 150k a year taxfree [!]


Why do you guys always say - oh but this is all tax free money !

NO IT ISN'T tax free . Yes we do have to pay taxes !

OK we don't have to anything , but later it will catch up if you don't !

Any smart provider knows to pay her taxes !

If I don't pay my taxes the only place the money can go is under my mattress ........well what good will this do me ?????

If I have money in the bank , investments , cars , homes , ect ., I have to justify where it came from .

This is an income business like any other business ! What sucks is they claim it isn't legal ...........but it's ok for the IRS to collect taxes ............hmmm I wonder do drug dealers pay taxes on drug money ? LOL LOL LOL

Point is YES we pay taxes and A LOT !!
I paid this year $70, 000 !!! So don't tell me TAX FREE !!



[Edited by cindyspice on 08-01-2001 at 05:57 AM]

[TuckernotSucker]

70K in taxes. I am in the wrong business. Ok, I hope there is reincarnation and if the guy upstairs is listening, I want to come back as an escort.LOL I hope he takes requests.

[Chernov]

After reading most of these threads, I wish to offer my thoughts/opinions.

-The tax paying criteria is irrelevant. If Cindy & Val do, I would not even think of it impacting their fee structure.
-We live in a free market system. As independent business operators, or with agencies, the proprietor would be foolish to offer products & services at a rate lower than market value
-Volume vs. profit. Simple math here provides the obvious answer: Hourly rates of $400 would deliver $1200 in total fees for three one hour sessions. Dropping the rate to $300 would require four one hour sessions to realize the same gross dollars. The greater frequency also requires higher "operating costs" as well due to added time & labor intensity. So profit results would not be equal in this scenario.
-Have the going rates really inflated over the past few years? I think not, if compared to real estate, cars, and luxury items. Do your own comparisions. If you own a home, condo or co-op, what did it cost 3 years ago vs. today. In most desireable areas. & all over Manhattan, prices have doubled.
Do I wish top caliber providers like Val or Cindy (I have never had the pleasure of either's company, but their reputation's speak volumes) offered lower fees? Of course, but I would not anticipate it.
I conclude with one open question for the guys; did you ever feel you overpaid after a great session?

Best regards,
Chernov



[Edited by Chernov on 08-01-2001 at 11:41 AM]

[April]

I find myself between a rock and a hard place. Being an agency owner with a various selection, it is very hard to find a rate that everyone is happy with. When I first started this venture I based my rates on other "boro agencies" Most (not all) get away with these rates because it is in and out quickies with girls serving an immediate need. Thats the biz, you make up in volume what you lack in rates.I find that they are usually A)not up to customer standards(far from mine)B) on drugs or C) actually encouraged to hit it and quit it. Then when they come to work for me they can't understand why I frown if they call out in 45 mins. This is not the type of service, nor the type of girls I want to offer. I am considering raising my rates $25 across the board not a huge hike but enough that I can offer good quality girls have them stay the full time. Advertising, website, good pics, good girls, good drivers that can get the girls there are time, I'm also adding a phone girl so I can offer day hours (I tried doing day and night myself, I really did, have to sleep sometime!) they all cost money. I'm curious to hear from those that are familiar with my service, I really strive to have great girls, dependable service, and a good relationship with all my clients. ::stepping into her flameproof leather outfit::
p.s. Silky I have been sending you e-mails for 3 days but this guy named Mailer Demon keeps intercepting.

[Humble Narrator]

From what I am hearing from the supply side, the Summer slowdown has been greater than usual. I have to believe this is due to the economy. While there may in fact be some ladies out there who for various reasons are impervious to these vagaries, I have to think that the majority are feeling the pinch.

The short term impact will probably be that ladies will try and use stop-gap measures to maintain their fee structures, such as extending session time and/or features. This will likely bouy the demand briefly, but inevitably the weakness in demand will drive down prices or drive out marginal providers, leaving a leaner supply for the dwindling demand. However if the supply contracts at or near the same rate as demand, price will be static.

A note about the term "marginal providers": I am referring to ladies who would not be in the biz if fees were decreased or their specific service offerings were not in the high-demand category. I am NOT referring to low-quality providers in the traditional sense.

There are probably other factors that none of us has considered, but I think the economic slowdown is really the major factor for the time being.

[thelastone]

Originally posted by CindySpice
[B]
(snip)
This is an income business like any other business ! What sucks is they claim it isn't legal ...........but it's ok for the IRS to collect taxes ............hmmm I wonder do drug dealers pay taxes on drug money ? LOL LOL LOL


Actually, anyone in an illegal business should know to pay your taxes. An acquaintance of mine actually puts down on his 1040, recreational pharmaceutical distributor. The IRS does not share its information with any government agency, unless your not paying enough taxes (or any at all). You can actually call the IRS and ask them.

last

[Slinky Bender]

Check your email, I think I know what the problem is.

I agree with what HN states, and would like to say to April that while it is harder to run your business "the right way", especially in an industry which is full of "hacks" and BS, if you are in it for the "long haul", you will find that doing things the "right way" will reap the greatest rewards. From what I hear from some members, you do care about doing things the right way, and I hope you find an operating motif which continues to allow you to provide the current level of service. I know one of the problems is that it's hard to get girls who are used to working for "bad" places, and get them to give "good service" when they are working for you.

One thing that I would like to point out to any business owner: repeat business is worth a lot of money. in most businesses it's woth money because of factors such as decreased advertising, word of mouth referrals, etc. in this business there is an added bonus: you don't get busted because of repeat customers, you get busted from people who you never did a "deal" with before. The more repeats, the less of a chance of LE problems. As susch, you often find that the places with the best 'service model" get busted much less often. Unfortunately, that calculation doesn't appear to figure in the "business plan" of a lot of places in this undustry. OTOH, the one's which do figure it in, seem to not only stick around a lot longer, but in the end make a lot more money. It's just harder work, and a lot of people don't go into this industry because they want to work hard.

[fishfry]

Did you know that when you call an agency for a $300 girl, the agency gets half, the driver gets fifty bucks, and the girl gets $100? If she supplies her own transportation she gets $150.

The price of high quality commercial sex is actually much lower than men think it is.

fish

[April]

The driver gets his pre-arranged drivers fee, then what ever is left over is split 50/50 with the girl. I work extremely hard for my fees drop about 5k (at least) in advertising per month. If a girl drives herself then it's down the middle. The hardest thing is when something does not go as planned (ie: girl forgot her protection, has to stop this wastes time, driver gets lost this wastestime and the compensation always comes out of my pocket never the driver's or the girls so sometimes my fee is even less than that. Ultimately when I send a girl out she is representing myself and my agency , I learned early on that reputation is everything. If I do descide to raise the rates it would not be for current clients. Just kicking around the idea. I also expect to be offering day services (I hope) by next week, also the lovely Kimberly will be offering incall for the first time on Fri and Sat. for select gentlemen who can provide "references" e-mail for more info. I'm looking into "other" alternatives a price hike would be the last alternative.

[Humble Narrator]

SB is right on the money re: repeat business. Helping corporations maintain their customers is my business. Some of our customers have determined that it is 5-10 times more expensive to get a new customer than to keep an existing one, for all the reasons that SB mentioned. And my customers aren't even thinking about legal issues!

April: I applaud your efforts. I also think that maintaining a presence here on UG can only strengthen your position as a responsive, customer-focused agency.

[pswope]

FF
A couple of years ago,I recognized what you just posted and started to act upon it. Because I was regarded as a "reputable john",I developed a network of working girls,who would see me and refer their friends to me. I also became pretty competent at finding UTR indies. I worked out a mutually acceptable fee arrangement with the ladies ,which gave them slightly more than the "share" they'd receive if working in a house or for an agency. If they were good,I'd refer them to my buds. It was win-win.

April
I concur with "silky"(I think that name is more appropriate). It's much easier and less expensive to keep an exisitng customer,than to obtain a new one.
The problem with retention for you is ,not only do you have to have your girls maintain a certain standard of service,but you need to keep on bringing in new ladies to meet your client's inate desire for variety. It's very difficult to motivate working girls to maintain or give a greater level of service,when they are making less bank than they were last year.
Given the nature of man's desire, I do not think that actual demand for sex services has declined(maybe libidos drop slightly when guys make less bucks). Rather their ability and willingness to pay has( I bet masturbation has risen in inverse proportion to the decline in business). Accordingly I think alot of johns are looking down market for their yayas. If I were you,I'd experiment with a decrease in rates. I believe that you would see an increase in business and revenues. Granted,the ladies would have to work more sessions to make what they made at higher rates. But at least they be making!
You may want to consider(as an experiment) changing the share ratio on new lower rate business. This would make it more palatable to the ladies and,if you increase the amount of incremental appointments,your revenues would increase. The alternaive would be to work out an incentive program for ladies,who produce(eg most hours permonth or most repeat customer hours). This would incent better service.

[April]

but (there is always a but! lol) There are many who wont even try my service because my rates are so low and they are assuming that the quality of service must be low as well. My rates right now are ROCK bottom, most agencies have already done the rate increase with low quality service. As I said I am trying other avenues. If I was a consumer and I found a store which offeredv good quality service at rock bottom rates and after frequenting the place for some time they jack up they rates, I would feel a bit taken advantage of. Understood! I am talking about paying $175 instead of $150......$225 instead of $200. Which STILL keeps me less expensive than most places offering the same quality and service. Just food for thought. April=P~

[Humble Narrator]

So, I see you've been in touch with "Silky Boner", or whatever his name is, but what about the rest of us? Do we all need to go through email to get a URL for your agency, or will Silky let us see it here?

SB: please forgive me, I can't help myself.

[April]

And I don't mean an extra sensitive pervert lol (sorry could't resist)
e-mail meow7187583321@aol.com
718-758-3321 or 718-377-6231
http://www.cutelittlepussycats.com
Hope that covers it, right now we are answering after 7pm, but I answer e-mails all day long when I can.

[pswope]

April
I'm not familiar with your agency(is it Impulse?),but if your price points are around $200 per hour,then you should be flush with business. If your price is in the $400 range,then you're probably hurting the most because
a)the clients,who formerly were willing/able to pay this amount,no longer are/feel they are;and
b) for savvy shoppers,there's a bevvy of indies at slightly below that rate,who offer a more extended hour.
While I agree,that many clients make assumptions about quality based on price,that can be overcome by testimonials on the internet from satisfied customers. I think that Julie would concur that internet word of mouth is a powerful tool,which obviates the need for more expensive marketing through other more convnetional channels.

[April]

Sorry you hit a sore spot! I am not affiliated with her in any way either other than that some girls that work for me USED to work for her. I wont go into it further because she is not here to defend herself but lets just say that many who are "established" get nervous when new agencies pop up. They bad mouth, report you to AOL, crank call, tell people if you work with them I won't give you work...etc. I had to work very hard for everything I have nothing was given to me, went through alot of barriers as well and still am to an extent. I have certain requirements for my girls and will not just throw anyone up on my site. The practices of some make things bad for others. This is Cute Little Pussycats, and we are NOT affiliated with ANY other agency. We have no other names no other website, ya get what ya see. Rates are $1/2 brooklyn/Queens and $$ NYC

[Edited by April on 08-01-2001 at 04:09 PM]

[pswope]

Sorry.... it was just a wild guess ,posted before your post with the link. After viewing your site,imo,your price points are very good as is(I especially like the extended time discounts).
If your ladies provide good service,you will do well. If they provide excellent service.you will have a very busy agency. The positive word of mouth on this site alone will ensure that.
Good Luck.

[wilt]

After reading the portion of Cindy Spice's post,where she states that she pays taxes, I consulted with tax counsel with reference to a client's obligations in utilizing a provider's services.
He advised that if I see a provider on a "consistent basis" that I may be liable for taxes.
Accordingly,a nd consistent with the providers' representations that they are paying taxes,after the third visit with a specific provider,I will begin to deduct witholding from their remuneration.
If any provider wishes to join me in obtaining a Private Letter Ruling from the IRS,please let me know.

[fishfry]

Deduct withholding from a provider? That sounds obscene. What do you do, save the condom?

[pswope]

FishFry

Maybe Wilt is anticipating a Cabinet appointment someday.

[littleguy]

I THINK Cindy was saying she paid taxes on $70,000 of income.

I am SURE that is FAR LESS than she actually earned.

If not, don't come crying to me. I would LOVE to pay $70,000 in income tax. (grin)

[Bill Furniture]

If she did mean that she paid $70,000, wow!