Sex with Civilian women: Why I pay for sex.

[Mr.Robinson]

There has been some time that I've been sleeping with sex workers. I pay for the higher end girls who are priced $120 to $200.00 and up for the night/day.

Let me stress that I am not the stereo typical john. I'm a very attractive young man, gainfully employed fit if not athletic / muscular, college educated and a great people person.
I've had girlfriends before, I'm a major flirt and can strike up a conversation with almost any one. I might have a major sexual addiction and miraculously I am healthy and STD free.
I don't know where to start with this post. I guess I'm writing it here on CL because I want to know if there are other men like me and if they feel the same way.

I have a lot of female friends, some of them do come on to me in some manner or another ( example light touching of my arms, butt or casually "pressing themselves against me", some of you guys know what I mean). And in some cases I bite and end up sleeping with them, but in many cases I don't because of the complex nature of our friendship and to be frank, the lady friends life style might become an issue if I were to be involved with them in some manner or another. I'm not a commitment phobe, in fact I'm quite the opposite, I enjoy being affectionate and passionate person.
My experience with civilian women have been at best... tumultuous.

I tend to encounter women who either lead dramatic life styles, who are extreme opportunist, some have been self destructive and other just plain and simply bad people. Again to the female readers out there, I'm not saying this of all women, just the ones I've encountered, plus lately a lot of my female friends want to cheat on their boyfriends with me, simply because they either want to get away from them, but need them in some fashion (usually money) or just honestly don't care for them. A lot of these ladies aren't even the Jerry Springer type, they're young, attractive, educated women. Some are empty and others are just plain well... deutchey!

Lastly a lot of these ladies are just simpley complicated people, they find fault in something in someone. Be it the guy is broke or under employed or he works way too much and has no time for them.

This is why I pay for sex.
I don't want to hook up with any drama queens, I don't want to be you're other man, and granted I am essentially paying for companionship, it's for a short period, agreed upon time and place, and if we hit it off well and know what we want in each other it usually turns out to be a win win situation. Also I am not a complicated man, I'm not in to tassles or whips and chains or freaky stuff at all, the most weirdest thing I would say I've done with a prostitute is anal sex. Other wise I would sleep with them ideally how I would of like to sleep with a civilian woman minus the baggage and head aches. Some of these ladies (well most of them I've spoken to) can be real down to earth and I've had some great conversations with them. Don't get me wrong I can do that with civilian woman too, except a major problem has grown from my sexual exploits with sex workers....

They're really damn good at having sex, and are extremely reciprocal.
One major thing I love about civilian women is you can be emotional with them ( suffice they're not nut jobs). You can honestly make love with one and not treat them as a business proposal. And odds are they have the same feelings for you. With a sex worker granted they can LIKE you for being you. They will never love you, but at the same time they are also the most honest with you( any dude who falls for professional is delusional, and doesn't understand that, much like entertainers are in the business of providing a fantasy). Plus let's be frank here you're more likely to have unprotected sex with with a CGF (civilian girl friend) then you are with a SW. In theory the higher price the woman, the more protected you are from stds ( how ever who are we kidding here?).

My gripe with civilian women in the sexual department is very lacking, CW's can be extremely attractive, well pampered and clean and can be the most spectacular girl in the world personality wise. Yet when it comes to the sack... laying there and taking it is not considered sex. That's just someone having intercourse with some else who isn't really involved, lazy or just plain and simply doesn't know how to have sex other then being on her back.Or worst she can be a sexual nazi and not do certain things that turn me on ( like for example oral sex), or know how to move her body properly (yes even women need to learn how to move their hips and gyrate as well). And I'm sorry if this makes me sound like a pig, but if I can take directions on what turns you on and I am willing to play ball for it, why can't you?

The issue of time:
I am a very busy guy, I don't get out of work at a certain times I'm supposed to, then my free time is spent doing freelance work on the side or just making sure my bills and things I need at home are up to snuff. I would love to find a CW who is understanding enough about this situation and not use it against me, or use it as a reason to cheat on me either. I'm not a pot head gamer, and or a layabout either. I'm pretty stable guy. I would love to find someone like that, I don't see that in my near future. a SW won't give me grief for being a productive male (especially in these tough times). I can set up an appointment and go on my marry ways to relieve my daily stresses in life. Plus I've known too many hard working responsible guys who go home to ladies who simply don't appreciate them at all. At times I don't blame them for being cheaters either (there are exceptions).

Money:
Look I would be the first guy to say that I enjoy taking my friends to bars, movies and dinner. The good thing about my friends is I know they would appreciate the gesture and would do the same for me if and when I am invited to a social function with them. In addition we have each others backs when one of us is low on the funds.

When it comes to dating that's a whole different ball game.
Excuse me for saying this, but honestly on average it's a lot more expensive having a CW girl friend then it is sleeping with a SW. You are spending maybe a couple of hundred bucks once a month (unless you're a high roller freak). With a CW it's a lot more expensive if you include dinner, movies and even going to clubs and events she likes and you spend most of the money. These things aren't cheap and in nyc they're a whole lot more expensive. Unless you find a CW who goes dutch with you or really enjoys it when you cook for them ( I know a girl who told me she wouldn't bother dating a guy if he cooked, because she wanted to be wined and dined) then forget it. Dating becomes a major income investment. You are being bleed of your money for a prolonged period of time, and in many cases all in vain. There are some guys that actually do take SW to dinner. Frankly I don't see the point of me doing that for someone I have only sexual intentions for.

Intimacy:
This is tricky, you see with SW you have to be very careful with how you have sex with them. You have to wear a condom, aside from health reasons you don't want to impregnate her either.
Plus kissing becomes an issue because both parties don't know each others sexual history. There are ways around having an intense sexual experience ( and in some cases even passionate ones) but you really can't be that close with a SW. That's an edge a CW has in spades over an SW. Plus with an SW the amount of time you spend with them cost you money ( unless they really like you then, they'll discount the over time and probably put you under "personal time"). My only issue with intimacy with CW is that it can be used to manipulate you ( and vice versa to the decent ladies out there that end up with dogs)

I don't know if there are guys who think and feel this way, I just wanted to explain why I do this. Hopefully a CW can at least see how I interpret things if she can't understand my feelings, but can understand my rational.

I am very aware that I have major women issues and probably have major intimacy issues as well. In short I do this because they are convenient, I know where I stand, there are no illusions to what I am doing, no games and doggy tricks to seek approval. My world like it or not is hallow, it's hallow because I fear being hurt used or even being bored of the CW woman. At the same time I dream of being in a healthy relationship with a CW, but the realty in my world begs to differ. I hope this is illuminating, and at least I have something to look back at in regards to my sexual history.

[puffin]

Glad you were able to get this off your chest.

[stevana]

There has been some time that I've been sleeping with sex workers. I pay for the higher end girls who are priced $120 to $200.00 and up for the night/day.

Let me stress that I am not the stereo typical john.

Surely not if you can get those arrangements. Maybe some typos?

[Sidekicks]

Damn! Something I wanted to write. I'm in the same boat. Although I didn't read the entire post (about 75% of it), I'll respond. Had a long day =)

[ahenobarbus]

Why I pay for sex

For me it is a lot simpler than the original post. It boils down to the fact that, sexually, a woman's body turnaround time is about a year, and then you need to move on. (I'm not going to mull over the natural reasons for this.) That is to say, it either wears out physically, or it wears out mentally.

This doesn't mean you can't have long relationships, or even life-long marriages, but it does mean that eventually you will cheat (or experience a diminished libido, which may not be a bad thing)

So as most of you I have a girlfriend and its been a year or so. There was another girlfriend a year back, and another two years before that, and so on. But it happens again and again: eventually I just don't want to have sex with them anymore. It's like eventually you're just going through the motions. Sure, you can spice it up with various new things and get a couple extra miles out of it, but eventually you need a new set of holes, a new body, a new face, a new personality. At least I do. My much older brothers have the same issue, and the more I look at relationships (of which I have honest knowledge) the more the theme becomes recurring.

That's it, really. The other points are also important, but for me they are supporting points. I'll just reiterate the big ones: sw are cheaper (I go for high end 150-300, and yes I did the math, and yes it is cheaper for me...), they aren't going to bitch and moan (or at least you don't have to put up with it) they will try to keep you as a customer (and therefore it's not just starfish sex). Although yes, you can get more intimate with a cgf, and go bareback (I'm not that adventurous with sw), but for all the minuses you might as well do both, no pun intended. Then there's the trusty dolphin flogger, and they have some cool products out there that are much better than ye olde apple pie method.

Me, personally, I'm looking for a hybrid. Not a pro sw, but someone who understands my point of view and accepts it. How insufferably chauvinistic of me is that? :D (And unrealistic, to be sure) Until that time, I just can't come to any conclusion other than that a woman doesn't last enough. (There's also the point about urban women being more spoiled rotten, I don't have that much experience with suburban/rural women...)

[paperpusher]

I will let you in on a little secret.................. Sex isnt everything. There I said it on a whore board. Now I am ducking.

There are things that trascend sex and that is what you are missing. Everything you said is true. There will always be the law of diminishing returns on sex. And thus why many of us are here today.

In you truly are in love, not movie love, not infauation, but deep meaningful love, the above becomes irrelevant. You will want to please each other and the emotional connection will be far greater than the physical one.

It is easy to get bored with sex. There are only so many variations. Stop looking for someone you physcially connect with. If a woman truly loves you, she will intuitively learn what you want and vica versa.

Find someone you dig so much, that you just want to spend time with. The rest will flow from there. I dated 50 women in a very short period of time, until I found one that was special. NYC is one of the worst places to find women. The women there are seeking the wrong things in guys and are more trophy hunting.

Just one paperpusher's opinion.

[paperpusher]

One more thing you already know. There is an inverse relationship with looks and personality. There are great looking special people, but not many of them and they usually are taken. Most the great looking woman have a sense of entiltlement as you have already seen.

I was once going out with this very beautiful looking balerina. During sex, she said that she was best looking person in Manhattan and I should have an orgasm just looking at her. Not a special person.

These women spend so much time on their appearance, that it is usually superficial stuff that is important to them. And guys compliment them so many times, they only get worse. How I got around this, was to find a diamond in the rough. Someone who was young and goodlooking but did not know it. She just needed to dress right, get the right stylist and she was stunning (and I got the pictures to prove it, lol). The other direction I went, was I started to date chinese woman, who most of them do not play the games that you are experiencing.

[puffin]

Because I can't just walk into a bar, proposition a 24 year old, and take her upstairs ... unless I pay her. For the women willing to put out, it's always linked to some sort of catch, as in relationship. Men use relationships to get sex, women use sex to get relationships. No justice in this world, and certainly no symmetry.

[RuffToy]

...Most the great looking woman have a sense of entiltlement as you have already seen...

Topic for another thread but I will say this about your statement.
- Many beautiful women in fact don't see themselves as beautiful. They are prone to self-esteem issues and only find fault in their looks.
- Many beautiful women are not in a relationship due to the fact that guys are (1) intimidated by their looks or (2) guys assume they're already taken (because how could such a piece of ass be available)
- Any woman who presents herself as having a sense of entitlement is labeled a "BITCH". Her physical beauty begins to diminish as you get to know her. Her inner ugliness floats to the service.

Back on topic. Sex with civilian women comes with a 40 mule team of baggage especially if you're married. Much safer to indulge in P4P for non-committal sex.

However, with that said, I find the P4P world completely unfulfilling, contrived, mechanical and boring. I have had some over-the-top sex with ladies in the business but 10 minutes later it means nothing, as it should. But when I'm out there and make a true electric connection with a civilian lady.....my fucking blood boils.

[paperpusher]

Topic for another thread but I will say this about your statement.
- Many beautiful women in fact don't see themselves as beautiful. They are prone to self-esteem issues and only find fault in their looks.
- Many beautiful women are not in a relationship due to the fact that guys are (1) intimidated by their looks or (2) guys assume they're already taken (because how could such a piece of ass be available)
- Any woman who presents herself as having a sense of entitlement is labeled a "BITCH". Her physical beauty begins to diminish as you get to know her. Her inner ugliness floats to the service.

Back on topic. Sex with civilian women comes with a 40 mule team of baggage especially if you're married. Much safer to indulge in P4P for non-committal sex.

However, with that said, I find the P4P world completely unfulfilling, contrived, mechanical and boring. I have had some over-the-top sex with ladies in the business but 10 minutes later it means nothing, as it should. But when I'm out there and make a true electric connection with a civilian lady.....my fucking blood boils.

I havent seen you on UG in awhile (maybe I just missed your posts), but knew you would surface on this one. LOL

I think the woman you are talking about are a distint minority, like less than 20%. Other than that, I think we agree pretty much on everything.

There are guys that are intimidated by good looking woman no doubt, but there are plenty of guys that are not, so a goodlooking lady with a healthy personality will be taken out of the single market fast. Very few left by age thirty and the ones that are left are ones that have just left a long term relationship that did not work out.

The ones with self-esteem issues, will soon be blaming the guy for all her ills. Been there, done that. If the girl has self-esteem issues it will morph in to the relationship.

[Axe]

There are guys that are intimidated by good looking woman no doubt, but there are plenty of guys that are not, so a goodlooking lady with a healthy personality will be taken out of the single market fast. Very few left by age thirty and the ones that are left are ones that have just left a long term relationship that did not work out.

I used to think in terms like this but now I find that what a 'good looking woman' is depends so much on individual taste that the distinction isnt very important. Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder, you know? I find it's better to discover asap what kind of personality disorder your target has and then determine if it's something you can live with for whatever period of time you're anticipating to spend with her. So it's not "Is she messed up?" it's "How messed up is she?" And, yes, men are no better.

[h4c]

I thought we always paid them to leave?

[fumpton]

I pay for the higher end girls who are priced $120 to $200.00 and up for the night/day.



I'll just reiterate the big ones: sw are cheaper (I go for high end 150-300, and yes I did the math, and yes it is cheaper for me...)

When did $120-300 become the high end?

[ahenobarbus]

When did $120-300 become the high end?

Meant to echo the "higher" end point of the op. Yeah the sky's the limit with some of these gals, but diminishing returns, yadda yadda

[Monk]

However, with that said, I find the P4P world completely unfulfilling, contrived, mechanical and boring. I have had some over-the-top sex with ladies in the business but 10 minutes later it means nothing, as it should. But when I'm out there and make a true electric connection with a civilian lady.....my fucking blood boils.

But does your blood keep boiling, or in the end, long after the affair is over, does it still hold as much "meaning" as when it first occurred? Because, when you say commercial sex "means nothing" (and I wholeheartedly agree with you, except that I expect it to mean nothing; if it meant something, it would be a relationship), I wonder exactly what you're looking for.

[puffin]

But does your blood keep boiling, or in the end, long after the affair is over, does it still hold as much "meaning" as when it first occurred? Because, when you say commercial sex "means nothing" (and I wholeheartedly agree with you, except that I expect it to mean nothing; if it meant something, it would be a relationship), I wonder exactly what you're looking for.

Personally a lot of non-p4p means nothing for me as well. Excepting that the woman thinks I owe her something because she put out, guilting me if I don't act the way she wants. True connection is hard to find, and if I know that a woman is dating me because she is lonely, or because she likes my car or my apartment, then I feel the same as when I am with a prostitute. In fact a good prostitute treats me like a client just the same way my dental hygienist does. And I respect her for the professionalism and effort it takes for her to do her job. Oddly perhaps, because of this, the transaction can be both friendly and pleasant.

Come to think of it, I miss that Russian incall woman I saw a few months ago. That was some fun and friendly sex.

[h4c]

with non p4p, when you're tired of the chick, simply fart when shes blowing you. She'll get the hint

Or tell her you respect her so much you want to piss in her throat.

Getting out of non p4p isnt that hard

[RuffToy]

But does your blood keep boiling, or in the end, long after the affair is over, does it still hold as much "meaning" as when it first occurred? Because, when you say commercial sex "means nothing" (and I wholeheartedly agree with you, except that I expect it to mean nothing; if it meant something, it would be a relationship), I wonder exactly what you're looking for.

Just voicing my personal feelings of P4P vs. NP4P. I've always been a big fan of the "chase" which is a void factor in the P4P world. However, I no longer have extra circular affairs but still practice the art of seduction, tease and chase. Guess you can call me a cunt-tease.

[Monk]

I'm not arguing for or against NP4P. I was simply reacting to the suggestion that sex in a NP4P arrangement is more "meaningful" than in a strictly P4P arrangement. To your point, the thrill of the chase is a big motivator for many who play this game. I can't remember who made this observation -- Jame Joyce? -- that the anticipation of a sexual encounter is sometimes more exciting than the encounter itself.

[TuckernotSucker]

I like PFP because I pay them to leave.

[qqq35]

i have paying for over 40 years. not because i wasnt able to get laid on my own, quite the contrary. picking up ladies and having sex was very easy for me, especially in the 80's. my reasons have been and still are very simple. first, i can have sex whenever i desire. i dont have to go to a club spends big $'s and maybe get laid. that has it's place too, even though it is very time consuming.
second - i can have many pussy's and sex is completly on my terms when i am paying for it. i come and go when i am finished. no dellusions. maybe i am no betterthan a sex worker. they are there for the money and to satisfy me; i am there to get my rocks off. nothing else.

[streetracer2k4]

Or tell her you respect her so much you want to piss in her throat.


That's gonna be my new line...

[cjb1985]

i can have many pussy's and sex is completly on my terms when i am paying for it. i come and go when i am finished. no dellusions. maybe i am no betterthan a sex worker. they are there for the money and to satisfy me; i am there to get my rocks off. nothing else.

prefectly stated, this sums it all up.

[Thorn]

Question: Why I pay women for sex.

Answer: Because I can.

[J. Lefty]

I've been dating civilian women more frequently lately, but I still see a couple of providers on occasionally. This is has been discussed here before, but I've learned it first hand, once a woman senses that you're getting laid (pfp or not) you seem more attractive to them.

[cheggitmeridian]

Question: Why I pay women for sex.

Answer: Because I can.

That's pretty much the long and the short of it. I do pretty well with girls from Match.com and Okcupid, as well as bars, but it takes a lot of time and effort to get a decent-looking girl into bed with you unless you luck out and basically take advantage of a drunk girl. Then girls try to insinuate themselves into your lives, etc.

With P4P, I decide on the type of girl I want to sleep with that evening, call her up, and have her drop by like pizza delivery but just more convenient.

I also have a pretty nasty sex addiction. But that's another matter.

[out of control]

I also have a pretty nasty sex addiction. But that's another matter.

Don't we all?

[pjorourke]

When did $120-300 become the high end?

Must be "new math"

[Wwanderer]

When did $120-300 become the high end?

If she looks really hot, has great reviews and radiates good attitude/chemistry, I *might* go as down-market as $300 these days...would be nostalgic if nothing else. :D

-Ww

[Thorn]

Why I pay for sex

For me it is a lot simpler than the original post. It boils down to the fact that, sexually, a woman's body turnaround time is about a year, and then you need to move on. (I'm not going to mull over the natural reasons for this.) That is to say, it either wears out physically, or it wears out mentally.

?????????????

Ok, I have to ask you how you came to that determination?



I will let you in on a little secret.................. Sex isnt everything. There I said it on a whore board. Now I am ducking.

Absolutely.

Sex is not only not everything, it isn't even the most important thing. Sex, including P4P, has its place in a well rounded life.

I have always maintained, both publicly on these boards and privately, that sex in general and P4P sex in particular is the salt and pepper of life. A life had without it is apt to be blander than it ought to be, though one would survive. With it though it can make the difference between hum-drum fare and a spicier existence.

[Wwanderer]

Sex is not only not everything, it isn't even the most important thing. Sex, including P4P, has its place in a well rounded life.

You are one seriously sane and wise dude, my friend.

-Ww

[Thorn]

You are one seriously sane and wise dude, my friend.

-Ww

I don't know about that. It is more likely that I aspire to be one and have picked up a thing or two along the way in the attempt.

[skudd]

Who once said... show me a super hot girl and i will show you some guy that is tired of fucking her.
I for one am compelled to pay for sex because i need new strange, and cant take the chance of getting emotionally involved with a civi because i am in a committed relationship. When i say compelled i mean it in a way that in spite of my attempts at fidelity, i cant seem to do it. Never could. I feel something just clawing at the back of my brain, and the thought of new pussy ascends to forefront of my thinking.

[Thorn]

I for one am compelled to pay for sex because i need new strange, and cant take the chance of getting emotionally involved with a civi because i am in a committed relationship. When i say compelled i mean it in a way that in spite of my attempts at fidelity, i cant seem to do it. Never could. I feel something just clawing at the back of my brain, and the thought of new pussy ascends to forefront of my thinking.

You realize you just defined addictive behavior, yes?

:)

[skudd]

You realize you just defined addictive behavior, yes?

:)

Absolutely...... thank the gods i have never been addicted to a substance... but i have been addicted to exercise.

But with this hobby, along with the increase in serotonin and endorphin levels, there is an element of adventure, even danger to a degree, because do we really ever know who is going to open door number one when we come knocking? I like that thrill... a lot.

I have it under control ( lol dont all addicts say that.) If i HAD to stop this behavior could I? After much soul searching...yes. Do i want to... no Does it interfere with my civi life to the point where i am neglecting my kids or SO... No, because i hobby during times during the day when i am working.. But am i addicted to this... yeah.. do i think about it and make plans.. yes, no doubt.

Will this Jones burn itself out.... we shall see.

[mrgreenjeans888]

skudd describes only the most fundamental addiction: to the beauty of life itself. there is nothing more beautiful than a naked woman lying in front of you ready to focus on, well, you. nothing else on the planet even comes close. wanting more of this addiction is only too natural. every man pays for his own addiction to some extent, to some level. some more, some less. but all pay. those of us with a heightened sense of, um, enjoyment, pay more and, yes, get more. go skudd. mrgj

[justlooking]

Oh bullshit. I'm sure a smack addict would say the same thing about a needle.

[Monk]

I have it under control ( lol dont all addicts say that.) If i HAD to stop this behavior could I? After much soul searching...yes. Do i want to... no

Isn't this the cliche of all addiction? "I could stop any time I wanted to." Sure you can. The only way to test whether this true is to try stopping and see how long you can last. Otherwise, it's just a self justification of your addiction, the illusion of self control.

[skudd]

Isn't this the cliche of all addiction? "I could stop any time I wanted to." Sure you can. The only way to test whether this true is to try stopping and see how long you can last. Otherwise, it's just a self justification of your addiction, the illusion of self control.

How long would i have to stop for?? Ok forget it. Too long. But seriously... ummm I will be reviewing a major hottie next week. <sigh>
I know i can stop bangin ho's ... I mean after all... Elliot Spitzer had to quit. Right!?

[skudd]

Oh bullshit. I'm sure a smack addict would say the same thing about a needle.

I agree, there is a complete area of denial when it comes to addictions... whether it be cigarettes ( i dont smoke) booze, smack or pussy.

I can tell you this.. i went 13 years out of an 18 year marriage without buying sex or cheating with a civi. Now i am in a 6 year committed relationship...went 4 years without buying or civvies.

So i know i can do it... can you?

But who the fuck wants to.. shit, i am getting old, no actually i already got old, and you only live once. All i know is i can not get caught, and if i did it would be disastrous. So the thrill of getting caught, the reward of pussy on the back end.... intoxicating.

[justlooking]

I went through a long period of my life -- the great majority of my life, in fact -- where I didn't buy sex or deviate from monogamous relationships. But then I started. So what does that long prior stretch prove?

[robnotbob]

I went through a long period of my life -- the great majority of my life, in fact -- where I didn't buy sex or deviate from monogamous relationships. But then I started. So what does that long prior stretch prove?

I've been asking myself the same thing.

[skudd]

I went through a long period of my life -- the great majority of my life, in fact -- where I didn't buy sex or deviate from monogamous relationships. But then I started. So what does that long prior stretch prove?

Well it proves a couple of things. For one, you are literally ABLE to go for long periods, like myself, without new strange. It also proves that perhaps we are pre-wired to stray on a genetic level. Ok,well we can not prove that per se, but if you want to take it down to the instinctual level, our sole function is the continuation of the species...

We are compelled as human males to spew seed. That is a fact. We have layer upon layer of socialized moral and ethical baggage as learned behavior.

But at the core, we, as normal healthy functioning men want new pussy. Its as if you basic as eating or breathing. Whatever guilt we may feel as a result is entirely different then the urge we "choose" to act upon or not.

In a true addiction, you have lost that ability to choose or put your urges for gratification on hold.

[gfeAmy]

Well it proves a couple of things. For one, you are literally ABLE to go for long periods, like myself, without new strange. It also proves that perhaps we are pre-wired to stray on a genetic level. Ok,well we can not prove that per se, but if you want to take it down to the instinctual level, our sole function is the continuation of the species...



That's the tootsie pop question, isn't it? The world may never know....
You can point to examples in the animal kingdom of species that only mate in bonded pairs, and those who mate indescriminately... and both seem to propagate just fine :)

I think with humans what it comes down to is the difference between love and (sexual)desire... I still firmly believe you can fall in love with someone and remain in love with them for the rest of your life, but more and more I think lifelong desire... where no matter what mood you're in, or how your day was, or how many times you've done it before, all you want to do is f*ck that person every time you see them.... well I think that must be either extremely rare or non exsistent.

[justlooking]

Well it proves a couple of things. For one, you are literally ABLE to go for long periods, like myself, without new strange.

I think you're wrong about that. People don't get addicted to heroin until they do heroin.

[skudd]

That's the tootsie pop question, isn't it? The world may never know....
You can point to examples in the animal kingdom of species that only mate in bonded pairs, and those who mate indescriminately... and both seem to propagate just fine :)

I think with humans what it comes down to is the difference between love and (sexual)desire... I still firmly believe you can fall in love with someone and remain in love with them for the rest of your life, but more and more I think lifelong desire... where no matter what mood you're in, or how your day was, or how many times you've done it before, all you want to do is f*ck that person every time you see them.... well I think that must be either extremely rare or non exsistent.

I know what you mean. Lust morphs into comfort when you are in love and stay monogamous. That isnt to say that you can not still be turned on as years tick by. Love doesn't have to be mutually exclusive of sexual desire. But sexual desire without love can be fun, or depending on the circumstances really frustrating. For example... if someone lusts for you, but has no emotional connection.

[skudd]

I think you're wrong about that. People don't get addicted to heroin until they do heroin.

I will agree that there are different 'types' of addiction... both physical and emotional. They are both agonizing in withdrawal.

[Monk]

How long would i have to stop for?? Ok forget it. Too long. But seriously... ummm I will be reviewing a major hottie next week. <sigh>
I know i can stop bangin ho's ... I mean after all... Elliot Spitzer had to quit. Right!?

Elliot Spitzer, from what I understand, quit with the help of a lot of therapy. And the blunt force of the humiliation caused by his hobbying being revealed to the general public, not to mention his family. Hopefully, most of us will be able to quit voluntarily and not be subjected to a Spitzeresque "outing."

[canthelpit]

Elliot Spitzer, from what I understand, quit with the help of a lot of therapy. And the blunt force of the humiliation caused by his hobbying being revealed to the general public, not to mention his family. Hopefully, most of us will be able to quit voluntarily and not be subjected to a Spitzeresque "outing."

And we know he quit?

[muffdvr]

Elliot Spitzer, from what I understand, quit with the help of a lot of therapy. And the blunt force of the humiliation caused by his hobbying being revealed to the general public, not to mention his family. Hopefully, most of us will be able to quit voluntarily and not be subjected to a Spitzeresque "outing."

I dont want to quit. Im happy as I am. Content with who I am

[skudd]

Elliot Spitzer, from what I understand, quit with the help of a lot of therapy. And the blunt force of the humiliation caused by his hobbying being revealed to the general public, not to mention his family. Hopefully, most of us will be able to quit voluntarily and not be subjected to a Spitzeresque "outing."

Well we dont know if he quit. But having said that, this hobby is either a lifestyle choice, or its compelled by the insidiousness of addictive behavior. Whats debatable are the elements of what the addiction might be. Everyone is different. Someone could be addicted to the endorphin rush of new strange, the intoxication of limitless beautiful women for the buying... or the thrill and danger of the exact thing feared most... being outed.

[paperpusher]

Elliot Spitzer, from what I understand, quit with the help of a lot of therapy. And the blunt force of the humiliation caused by his hobbying being revealed to the general public, not to mention his family. Hopefully, most of us will be able to quit voluntarily and not be subjected to a Spitzeresque "outing."


Most of us will quit when our equipment starts to fail. Falling libido is a cruel irony.

Where are all the great UG posters of Christmas past?

[pudgy.in.the.middle]

Falling libido is a cruel irony.

Falling libido is manageable thanks to vitamin V and other enhancers. A failed one, well you're just SOL. All the great posters from Xmas past are prolly busy celebrating Tu B’Shevat.

[nychelsea]

Having quit the hobby many times over the years (for over a year and a half one time) and spending some good bread on therapy, I know a bit about addiction and compulsive behavior. I've been through the high end house routine (and there are some good ones in NYC), Tantra, porn stars, AMPs,TVs, S&M , taking girls on trips overseas and expensive indies. The Harmony was great for meeting new material (even the occasional takeout) and I really miss it. But I've put all that behind me.

As of the last couple of years, I only go to the occasional upscale massage joint (Candleight is very good) and spend most of my time in strip clubs during the afternoons drinking wine and chatting up the girls. It is amazing how many of them will see you outside the club (if that is what you want) after they get to know you. Generally, this is not true of the Russian chicks at high end clubs (as good looking as many Russian girls are, I think the language barrier is too difficult) but American Girls are another story. One thing is a universal for me: if the girl asks me for money in our personal relationship (outside the club), it is a deal ender. I'm happy to help girls move, play golf with them, enjoy good meals, even the occasional trip to the mall for shopping but no money grabs.

Another type of great fun for me is Meet & Greets. The more the better and they avoid the incredibly annoying "criminal investigations (aka screening)" that so many girls do. I understand why they screen but I just won't do it. I really got burned some years ago when a jealous woman who I had just ended an affair with outed me to my daughter and mom. Happily my Mom hung up on her and never mentioned it to me but my daughter still hasn't forgiven me. No one who I see now knows where I live or anything about my personal situation.

I do a lot of international travel in my business and find that it is a good time not to hobby and to reassess what I want to do.

My story,

Chels

[Gavvy Cravath]

Having quit the hobby many times over the years (for over a year and a half one time) and spending some good bread on therapy, I know a bit about addiction and compulsive behavior. I've been through the high end house routine (and there are some good ones in NYC), Tantra, porn stars, AMPs,TVs, S&M , taking girls on trips overseas and expensive indies. The Harmony was great for meeting new material (even the occasional takeout) and I really miss it. But I've put all that behind me.

As of the last couple of years, I only go to the occasional upscale massage joint (Candleight is very good) and spend most of my time in strip clubs during the afternoons drinking wine and chatting up the girls. It is amazing how many of them will see you outside the club (if that is what you want) after they get to know you. Generally, this is not true of the Russian chicks at high end clubs (as good looking as many Russian girls are, I think the language barrier is too difficult) but American Girls are another story. One thing is a universal for me: if the girl asks me for money in our personal relationship (outside the club), it is a deal ender. I'm happy to help girls move, play golf with them, enjoy good meals, even the occasional trip to the mall for shopping but no money grabs.

Another type of great fun for me is Meet & Greets. The more the better and they avoid the incredibly annoying "criminal investigations (aka screening)" that so many girls do. I understand why they screen but I just won't do it. I really got burned some years ago when a jealous woman who I had just ended an affair with outed me to my daughter and mom. Happily my Mom hung up on her and never mentioned it to me but my daughter still hasn't forgiven me. No one who I see now knows where I live or anything about my personal situation.

I do a lot of international travel in my business and find that it is a good time not to hobby and to reassess what I want to do.

My story,

Chels

Great story.

[nychelsea]

Thanks Gavvy: I thought the troops might like to hear about the hobby from a veteran Monger!

Anyone else have some good stories?

Enjoy,

Chels

[Thorn]

The truth of the matter is that while we are all individuals we are all more the same then we are different.

Human behavior is predictable. It can be as much art as science but it can be done.

Most people exhibiting behavior that can be classified as addictive aren't apt to change it while no negative repercussions for that behavior exist. We tend to change, if we change, after some form of trauma, emotional and/or physical, is experienced. A catharsis.

Pretty typical stuff.

[h4c]

I think for a lot of guys, its the fantasy and pursuit as much as the actual sex. NY Mag had an article about how some guys want porn more than real chicks, and chicks are becoming more porn star-ish in bed to meet that need.

When the fantasy ends (or crashes) and reality sets in, guys realize what they've done, who they hurt and the actual cost beyond dollars sinks in.

That sounds preacherish, doesnt it?

[paperpusher]

I think for a lot of guys, its the fantasy and pursuit as much as the actual sex. NY Mag had an article about how some guys want porn more than real chicks, and chicks are becoming more porn star-ish in bed to meet that need.

When the fantasy ends (or crashes) and reality sets in, guys realize what they've done, who they hurt and the actual cost beyond dollars sinks in.

That sounds preacherish, doesnt it?

Without a doubt, all true. But the alternative becomes a matter of quality of life issues.

For me, imagine a situation where you have a good family, job and life and bored with it all.
The ultimate mid life crisis. I guess for most of us, we were not meant to be happy all the time.

I once once in comedy club and Eddie Murphy stopped by. He did a routine that said that if we were married to Ms. Universe, we would still be still checking the ugly women (in comparison) that passed by and say to ourselves "great elbows".

[skudd]

Without a doubt, all true. But the alternative becomes a matter of quality of life issues.

For me, imagine a situation where you have a good family, job and life and bored with it all.
The ultimate mid life crisis. I guess for most of us, we were not meant to be happy all the time.

I once once in comedy club and Eddie Murphy stopped by. He did a routine that said that if we were married to Ms. Universe, we would still be still checking the ugly women (in comparison) that passed by and say to ourselves "great elbows".


On the same note, its said that if you show me a incredibly hot women i will show you some guy thats tired of fucking her.

[nychelsea]

On the same note, its said that if you show me a incredibly hot women i will show you some guy thats tired of fucking her.

Guys' DNA is calculated to "variety is the spice of life,"

[skudd]

Guys' DNA is calculated to "variety is the spice of life,"

Especially mine!

[sanman111]

I will let you in on a little secret.................. Sex isnt everything. There I said it on a whore board. Now I am ducking.

There are things that trascend sex and that is what you are missing. Everything you said is true. There will always be the law of diminishing returns on sex. And thus why many of us are here today.

In you truly are in love, not movie love, not infauation, but deep meaningful love, the above becomes irrelevant. You will want to please each other and the emotional connection will be far greater than the physical one.

It is easy to get bored with sex. There are only so many variations. Stop looking for someone you physcially connect with. If a woman truly loves you, she will intuitively learn what you want and vica versa.

Find someone you dig so much, that you just want to spend time with. The rest will flow from there. I dated 50 women in a very short period of time, until I found one that was special. NYC is one of the worst places to find women. The women there are seeking the wrong things in guys and are more trophy hunting.

Just one paperpusher's opinion.

I'll quote this because it deserves another mention and I agree with most of it. I have mentioned here before that p4p has actually helped me in some ways.

I have also dated over 50 women in a year and hundreds over my dating career. Most bore me and provide little more than a convenient opportunity for sex. The ones I connect with on a deeper level few and far between. Almost all of those don't appeal on a physical level as much as their competition and lack the sense of sexual adventure. They stay friends while I go and bang emotional train wrecks who provide road head, kink, and sex in public places. However, the relationships always fall apart and end up a mess.

While I still do this from time to time, I find myself paying more attention and giving more of a chance to the 'nice and cute' girls who really like me after I participated in p4p. Mostly because I know that a hot kinky chick is only a phone call and an ATM visit away. It allows me to develop deeper relationships and honestly not care if the girl I am with is going to immediately sleep with me. As I approach 30 and attempt to start to settle down, I appreciate those qualities more than easy sex anyway. I have actually dated and seriously considered women who are wonderful people despite a lack of crazy sexual appetite. I feel that this the way women date. The freedom to know that sex can be had anytime while you search for the right person.

That said, p4p also allows me easy access to sex whenever I want. More than that it is guilt free self indulgence. It is rare that I can get a massage and release, or a NSA bj from a gf or date. This easy access, no reciprocation sex really is the junk food of sex. But, it is nice to allow myself to be self indulge and not worry the other person as you are paying them for the service. As a provider once intimated. "I wish someone would just give me head whenever I wanted so I could about my day after that."

In the end, relationship sex is better but with more strings. I find that both have their benefits though. While I wrestle with ethics and morals, it is becoming more clear to me that finding that great sex life with a wonderful, compatible person is not that likely and I may have to balance both needs using p4p.

[BennyBlanc0]

I'll quote this because it deserves another mention and I agree with most of it. I have mentioned here before that p4p has actually helped me in some ways.

I have also dated over 50 women in a year and hundreds over my dating career. Most bore me and provide little more than a convenient opportunity for sex. The ones I connect with on a deeper level few and far between. Almost all of those don't appeal on a physical level as much as their competition and lack the sense of sexual adventure. They stay friends while I go and bang emotional train wrecks who provide road head, kink, and sex in public places. However, the relationships always fall apart and end up a mess.

While I still do this from time to time, I find myself paying more attention and giving more of a chance to the 'nice and cute' girls who really like me after I participated in p4p. Mostly because I know that a hot kinky chick is only a phone call and an ATM visit away. It allows me to develop deeper relationships and honestly not care if the girl I am with is going to immediately sleep with me. As I approach 30 and attempt to start to settle down, I appreciate those qualities more than easy sex anyway. I have actually dated and seriously considered women who are wonderful people despite a lack of crazy sexual appetite. I feel that this the way women date. The freedom to know that sex can be had anytime while you search for the right person.

That said, p4p also allows me easy access to sex whenever I want. More than that it is guilt free self indulgence. It is rare that I can get a massage and release, or a NSA bj from a gf or date. This easy access, no reciprocation sex really is the junk food of sex. But, it is nice to allow myself to be self indulge and not worry the other person as you are paying them for the service. As a provider once intimated. "I wish someone would just give me head whenever I wanted so I could about my day after that."

In the end, relationship sex is better but with more strings. I find that both have their benefits though. While I wrestle with ethics and morals, it is becoming more clear to me that finding that great sex life with a wonderful, compatible person is not that likely and I may have to balance both needs using p4p.

holy crap if i could fit that onto a business card i would! I'd hand it over to my date at the beginning of the night so she could decide right then&there whether she wants the relationship or just the fun. neither of our time would be wasted!

[skudd]

I'll quote this because it deserves another mention and I agree with most of it. I have mentioned here before that p4p has actually helped me in some ways.

I have also dated over 50 women in a year and hundreds over my dating career. Most bore me and provide little more than a convenient opportunity for sex. The ones I connect with on a deeper level few and far between. Almost all of those don't appeal on a physical level as much as their competition and lack the sense of sexual adventure. They stay friends while I go and bang emotional train wrecks who provide road head, kink, and sex in public places. However, the relationships always fall apart and end up a mess.

While I still do this from time to time, I find myself paying more attention and giving more of a chance to the 'nice and cute' girls who really like me after I participated in p4p. Mostly because I know that a hot kinky chick is only a phone call and an ATM visit away. It allows me to develop deeper relationships and honestly not care if the girl I am with is going to immediately sleep with me. As I approach 30 and attempt to start to settle down, I appreciate those qualities more than easy sex anyway. I have actually dated and seriously considered women who are wonderful people despite a lack of crazy sexual appetite. I feel that this the way women date. The freedom to know that sex can be had anytime while you search for the right person.

That said, p4p also allows me easy access to sex whenever I want. More than that it is guilt free self indulgence. It is rare that I can get a massage and release, or a NSA bj from a gf or date. This easy access, no reciprocation sex really is the junk food of sex. But, it is nice to allow myself to be self indulge and not worry the other person as you are paying them for the service. As a provider once intimated. "I wish someone would just give me head whenever I wanted so I could about my day after that."

In the end, relationship sex is better but with more strings. I find that both have their benefits though. While I wrestle with ethics and morals, it is becoming more clear to me that finding that great sex life with a wonderful, compatible person is not that likely and I may have to balance both needs using p4p.

And guess what.... you are approaching 30... the same will still hold true when you are 40/50 and beyond.

[mike2009]

And guess what.... you are approaching 30... the same will still hold true when you are 40/50 and beyond.
nice...

[Mr.Robinson]

holy crap if i could fit that onto a business card i would! I'd hand it over to my date at the beginning of the night so she could decide right then&there whether she wants the relationship or just the fun. neither of our time would be wasted!

I so wish there was a like button on UG just like they have on facebook!

[lukin4luv]

sex is not everything in a relationship if sex is good, if its not its everything to bring a relationship to an end.

[pawgluvr]

Why do I pay for sex? Well, it's not as simple as the sex, because, as someone else mentioned here, if the session is sleazy you walk away feeling a little bit crappier. What is interesting is the fact that I find myself going to Asian spas despite the fact that I much prefer full figured Caucasian women. They work harder, and they scrub you down so you feel fresh and not sleazy (FS or no FS).

Also though I stress out trying to convey the fact that I am not serious about a relationship while acting like a guy who would only be in long term relationships. It's a type of double talk that I think the non P4P ladies seek out when they are looking for a roll. And honestly, I would rather pay to be with a hot chick than settle for something so-so that I could seduce only after a great deal of effort. I am weary of it all.