Provider Ratings System

[Carl M]

I was thinking maybe we should have some type of provider rating system, something similar to what Lemur Rush had on EA. We could rate on a scale of 1-10- Kissing, BJ, Looks, Y dining, Intangibles, reliability etc. If anyone else has suggestions lets hear it!

[LIDAWN]

these rating systems sometimes harm as much as hurt.. i recently peeked at a jag .. ouch and a ter..
they can be brutal and truthful maybe better left hidden for the guys who want no surprises..
I for one do not wannna hear that i kiss better than someone else or that i an fatter that the other girl.. i would rather be judged only on me not me vereses say shauna because
1. i am the girl next door. flaws and all no pent house model
2 i am not a twig I am cozy at 125 ish and five ft 7 soft here and hard there .. mix and match.. wink..
3. i love to kiss but the next girl may find it to personnal to do .......
4. ymmv some guys do not like me that is a fact!!! the fact i try to get real and want to knnow a guy bothers some of them a lot and it offends...
5. some guys resent the networking i do with the girls!
hmmmmmmmm............
do i really want to know where i rank honey .. i am not sure.......
i know with you i am safe.. till the next mona lisa dawns on the scene that tickles your fancy any way wink...
maybe i am wrong..
what does everyone else think about this..
note*
I will go with what ever they ( the majority) decide.. and smile the whole time either way.. giddiup
xxoo dawn

[rogue]

First we should establish our guidlines--basic provider,gfe provider,1x only provider,etc...

OK-HOW'S THIS FOR A CRITERIA..

GFE provider....

DFK,BBBJ,DATY,MASSAGE,FS w/ Multiple Positions......
INTANGIBLES..
NON CLOCK WATCHER
MULTIPLE Cups of Coffee
PASSION
CONVERSATION
INTIMACY

THE GRADING CAN BE SCALED TO EACH CATEGORY..FOR EXAMPLE..
-BBBJ..1-MECHANICAL,JUST TO GET YOU HARD..5-INTO IT ..10-TOO COMPLETION
-DATY-1..JUST LAID THERE...5 INTO IT,EITHER ACTING OR NOT...10-LET HERSELF GO,STEERED YOUR MOUTH/HEAD TO WHERE SHE WANTED-GOT ELECTRIC WHEN SHE CAME

-Just some ideas to throw around

[Carl M]

Dawn no need to worry, when your the best, the numbers will always be high for you! Plus each person would be rated for what they do not anyone else! Remember no one is perfect- even Shauna!
Some good additional categories Brother Rogue!

[justme]

I think it would be a mistake to reduce an experience with a woman to a few numbers. To me an accurate description fo events (and I don't mean graphic description) is of far greater use. What does it mean to me that frog thinks that a particular woman gives 7 french (and what the hell would it meant to have an 8 daty?). It's far better for frog to write that a woman gives an enthusiastic, rapid french lesson (rather than, say, a slow ponderous one or a boring rote performance).

Standard numerical measures are much more appropriate for objective observations.

As far as defining 'GFE', it might be easier to start with defining 'art'.

[guy catelli]

it is always a pleasure to concur (in all but minor details not worth mentioning) with my friend and learned colleague justme.

[Ezrlove]

justme - I agree with you completely

Plus I think the really good providers make a man feel so good that you can't put a number on it.

[Slinky Bender]

Rather than a numerical scale, perhaps we should use some form of representational symbol, like the years of the Chinese Calendar. "Oh, she's a Rooster" or "She's definitely a Monkey".

[candie]

Did you have to say "dining at the Y"....

wimpers....and faints

[Carl M]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ezrlove
[B]justme - I agree with you completely

Plus I think the really good providers make a man feel so good that you can't put a number on it.


EZ this is correct!

[Assman]

We may be loking for different things in the providers we visit. I may like the way a provider kisses and you may not. Everyone has an opinion as to what they like. Therefore, it would be impossible to accurately rate someone.

[jester]

Everyone has their own opinions. I may see a lady that Ozzy gave a 10 for appearance to but I'm disappointed at. YMMV at all times. What if justme gives a lady a 10 for bj, but when I go she has a toothache (or some such thing)? A numerical rating system is somewhat pointless in any situation involving personal opinions.

Also, and this is important (I think). It would be demeaning and insulting to the ladies, and most of us on this board claim to be more respectful of women than that. With the number of ladies on this board, a numerical ratings system is bound to upset someone. It is striking directly at them personally.


Jester

[K.S.]

Hmmmmm.... is it demeaning?

On one hand, I can fully understand the consumer wanting the best information he can get. On the other hand, well - other's have already posted the limitations of such a system. One man's GFE is another man's Date from Hell.

I must say that when I saw this topic introduced, I got a little sick to my stomach, and not because I worry about what such a system would do to me - I am no longer involved.

I guess it just upsets me, somehow. I know that there are bad providers, and I think they should be avoided. But I don't see how a woman needs to be bad-mouthed because her breasts aren't perfect.

The level of nit-picking can get pretty high. If that is what the consumers want, then they should definately do it in a private forum. While I was often really shocked by what I read on JAG, I really think that it is good for men to have their private locker room. Also, since I was the eavesdropper, I know I had no right to complain.

Still, I remember when somebody said about me "Her tits are ridiculously small. I can't believe she never got implants." It was a slap in the face that someone wouldn't recognize that I DO NOT EXIST ONLY AS A PROVIDER. I already had more clients than I could handle. More importantly, I didn't want to take the health risks just so I could try to please everyone.

Also, I notice that nobody questions BBBJ as a criteria. (BBBJTC!!!). Um, some people might consider that a minus. Well, you've all heard my rants about that issue already. But, I feel that men are pressuring for BBBJ/BBBJTC because they don't feel THEY have anything to worry about. (Better watch for cold sores, though...)

And, that BBBJTC thing brings up another issue for me - I often think that what is being discussed is not only a matter of getting good value in terms of physical pleasure. Sure, it's nice if a girl kisses you and seems to genuinely like you - but I often got the distinct feeling that it was more about submission and testing boundaries.

I can tell you that I have had several customers who would seek out your boundaries and launch an assault on them. In other words, they would twist nipples, try to ram dry fingers into delicate orifices, lick and slobber, push/pull/bend/twist limbs, and deliberately mess up your hair. I found that the best way to deal with them was to tell them that something innocuous was absolutely off-limits. I told these kinds of men that my elbows are very, very sensitive, so please don't touch my elbows. That way, they spent their hour trying to touch my elbows. The WORST thing I could do was tell them the truth - my belly button is so sensitive that I can't even touch it, myself, and the mere thought of someone touching it makes me want to scream and puke. (ot - It turns out that I am not alone in this, I know of about five other people who feel the same way. Funny huh?/ot)

So, when I read BBBJTC, I think that it's not so much about pleasure as it is about pushing boundaries. While nobody wants a girl to gag, screw up her face and spit after you come, I have never had a boyfriend complain when, once I sense he's about to come, I use my hands and lips on the shaft so that he actually comes on his own stomach. (I lovingly clean him up.) So, I can give a monster blow-job that will make you see stars, but you'll take off points for not giving in on the swallowing issue.

Anyway, of course YMMV, and I think all reasonable people know that. I do understand wanting to know what a girl will and won't do. If you're looking for greek, you want to find it, and I don't blame you!

Anyway, on UtopiaGuide, I think a numbers ratings system would turn ugly. However, I think a private client-only forum is a good place for that sort of thing if it is really useful to you, even if it's not the perfect solution.

[Edited by K.S. on 03-06-2001 at 11:47 AM]

[TuckernotSucker]

I couldnt afford it. I would want to see every provider over an 8.
Lets keep the YMMV quotient alive. When meeting a new woman let her unfold her bounderies and enjoy whatever she has to offer. In many years in this hobbby alot of women have alot and alot, did i say alot, to offer. And you know what, Its nice when they feel unpressured and enjoy themselves too.
Jake (not effin' silver yet)

[One Eyed Trouser Trout]

What the f8ck is this? A diner?

Come on, it ain't the Olympics either.

Girls can have bad days, chemistry can clash.

The only thing that truly matters is a YES answer to the following:

Would you see the girl again?

Oh, and 'Does she offer FF mile discounts?'

[jester]

OETT hit the nail on the head. The best recommendation you can give is repeat business.

[SkellyChamp]

KS sayeth:

"The level of nit-picking can get pretty high. If that is what the consumers want, then they should definately do it in a private forum. While I was often really shocked by what I read on JAG, I really think that it is good for men to have their private locker room. Also, since I was the eavesdropper, I know I had no right to complain."

HUH?
If you believe it is good for men to have a private forum for talking, complaining or nitpicking whatever, then how do you justify/rationalize eavesdropping. Would that rationale apply if a man invaded a provider only forum?

[justme]

C'mon SC...

I mean, I was (am) one of the biggest proponents for JAG security, but even I understand why a providor would want to break in even if they thought privacy was a good idea. It's up to JAG to keep JAG secure. It's just plain stupid to think that providors won't try to view information about themselves... even if it's just out of simple curiosity. As a JAGster, your biggest beef should be with anyone who invites providors to view the site regardless of who they are or what they do.

As an aside to everyone who considers JAG a safe private forum, I'm just wondering how you can expect a website whose existence is broadcast around the world (on ASP) to remain secret from providors. Furthermore, how can you expect a website with such insanely little security and verification standards to keep that providor out? To me, the historical security of JAG has always been a function of its secrecy. (and the lack of that secrecy/security is why you don't see any justme posts since early Jan.).


KS -

Having received bbbj's both TC (although never comercially) and not TC, I can say that there is a noticeable difference. I'd add that the difference would never be a deal breaker for me.

OETT -

repeat business is not always an indicator of satisfaction. Just consider all the guys who do this for 'new experiences every time'.

All -

Along the lines of what's being discussed in this thread... I'm just wondering if you guys go into sessions thinking, 'I'm going to see this woman and get some DFK's followed by great bbbjtc and then I'll do some daty followed by fs.' Personally, I'm just in it for great sex, which is never scripted sex and is almost always a little unexpected sex. As far as that's the case, I find microdetailed reviews which focus on individual acts to be less usefull than reviews which are a little less detailed, but provide descriptions of a demeanor and general impressions. The best reviews I have ever read have come from SR, for example, who puts you in the thick of things. (Although I think that will not do lists are very important as I won't see a non-fs providor (unless I'm looking for a spa experience)).

[Carl M]

I think after reading all the replies to this post, we should keep the status quo- no provider ratings system!!
YMMV everybody and trudging thru 20 inches of snow out here in the perimeter of LI!!

[K.S.]

but I feel totally entitled to anything I read.

I never said that we should respect the privacy - If I'm clever enough to get in, then I can read away.

However, if something is said in private and I overhear it, then I really can't complain because it wasn't meant for my ears.

I am always free to learn from what I read, though.

As for respecting privacy, if I read a post or review that I thought would endanger a provider, I'd tell her about it immediately. I've actually done so on one occasion - not a Jag post, but an SF Redbook post a couple of years back that basically sought revenge for something piddling by compromising the provider's security.

[justme]

but I feel totally entitled to anything I read.

I never said that we should respect the privacy - If I'm clever enough to get in, then I can read away.

Umm, so if someone is 'clever enough' to bug your phone lines are the entitled to listen away?

I think it would be dangerous ground for anyone to try to stand on ethical arguments on this subject.

[K.S.]

I guess I don't care about the ethics of this.

I wouldn't read someone's diary. But, I don't think I hurt anything by evesdropping on Jag. As I said, I don't think you are allowed to complain about what you hear - that is the burden evesdroppers have to carry.

I actually don't go over there any more - there's very little posting from what I see and now that they know I'm listening (or think they know, or whatever I mean), then I'd expect them to try and get my goat.

My goat is off the market, now. No sense giving anybody any freebies.

[Slinky Bender]

"My goat is off the market, now"

You're testing me by throwing up straight lines, aren't you ?

PS How are you going to communicate with .......oh, nevermind.

[SkellyChamp]

It's less a matter of JAG, then it is the principle of disrespecting privacy. I have never felt JAG was secure and it distrubed me that members were granting access to providers and others. But.....

Disrespect is disrespect and invasion of privacy is invasion of privacy.

That is a very interesting distinction you draw. Very Nixonesque. Very Big Brotherish.

So it is OK if I have invaded provider-only forums.
And it is OK if I have been able to access local police and FBI files on certain providers and hobbyists.

So it is only disrespectful and an invasion of privacy if you do not disclose anything you read, but not if you go where you are not invited, using false pretenses to get in. Forget JAG, it could be anything.

Morality, ethics and respect are not things that can only be a matter of convenience if they are to mean anything at all. How can you complain of hobbyists disrespecting providers when you disrespect hobbyists.

It just doesn't wash.

[K.S.]

For one thing, I actually basically respected Jag - I was nosy/curious. Somebody else might not be, and somebody else might cause trouble. C'est la vie!

If you've got info on providers, do what you feel is best with it.

[Ozzy]

if a tree falls in the woods and no ones there to hear it........is there a noise?



if providers don't post on jag........ are they there?......


YOU BET YOUR DAMN ASS THEY ARE!!!!!


my guess is between 70-90% of ALL internet providers are on or have visited jag. so get used to it.


KS........i already said i appreciate your honesty, so i won't keep saying it.

[guy catelli]

[Edited by guy catelli on 03-08-2001 at 04:01 AM]

[One Eyed Trouser Trout]

Originally posted by justme

OETT -

repeat business is not always an indicator of satisfaction. Just consider all the guys who do this for 'new experiences every time'.



Well, it's a pretty feeble minded fool who continues to keep seeing a lady who's bad in the sack, charges more than it's worth, keeps going back hoping the dead fish breathes.

If a guy says, he'll go back....first timers should get some clue there.

Oh well....call me dense.

[SkellyChamp]

*YAWN* - Serious response to serious issue - How witty.

GC - If you can't see the obvious difference; more's the pity.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by SkellyChamp
GC - If you can't see ...

what i 'see' from this thread are two things, so far:

1) your tone of belligerence that is wholly disproportionate to the occasion is not the result of my writing style, but rather other 'issues'; and

2) on the whole, escorts are vastly underpaid.


[Edited by guy catelli on 03-08-2001 at 03:14 AM]

[guy catelli]

I think it would be dangerous ground for anyone to try to stand on ethical arguments on this subject.

i must admit that i am in complete accord with then secretary of state Henry L. Stimson's dictum: "gentlemen do not read each other's mail." see: http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/9/0,5716,79929+1+77836,00.html?query=gentlemen%20do%20read%20each%20others%20mail

however, at the risk of being accused of casuistry, not to mention political incorrectness, the behavior at issue here was not that of a gentleman, but rather of a lady.

in 'civilian' life, i have had a number of occasions to observe that only the most ill-bred male would invade another man's privacy, much less that of a lady; whereas, it seems that any woman, no matter how well bred, the degree of refinement with which she has been formally educated, or her current position and place in society, believes that it is her birthright with respect to a man, any man, to rifle through his pockets and examine the contents therein, inspect his underwear for 'tell-tale' signs, rummage through his drawers, closets, and medicine cabinet, etc; and, yes, examine his private snail mail and email -- and, where possible, eavesdrop on his private telephone communications.

how many times have we read a message posted by a client or escort that his wife or s.o. "discovered" incriminating evidence on his computer. as if, she just happened to be walking past the computer and the monitor spontaneously powered up with the incriminating evidence right there onscreen.

but, on reflection, there may be a certain moral balancing of accounts in this apparent double standard. after all, if every woman is potentially at risk for having The Scarlet Letter affixed to her bosom http://images.amazon.com/images/P/6303977871.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif , is it not requisite that she preemptively assume the role of The Scarlet Pimpernel? http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0767015576.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif

and, before this is dismissed out of hand as special pleading, let us consider another instance where the direction in which the moral compass points is dependent upon the gender of the observer. that is, the matter of this thing of ours. from the male point of view, we are merely being 'authentic', following Polonius's admonition that, above all, we be 'true to ourselves'. from the female point of view, it stands as irrefutable proof, as if more were needed, that (in their view) "men are scum!".

after all, how much difference is there between Bill and the rest of us men, other than resources and opportunity? i'm sure that, in his heart of hearts, he felt that he was being overwhelmingly kind and generous with these ladies. after all, was not his chief spiritual advisor similarly disposed to kindness and generosity? yet, such civilian female sensibility as i have informally polled in this matter takes a dim view of this particular form of male kindness and generosity.

i'm not saying that i am entirely sanguine about the fact that, from the female point of view, 'the right of privacy' has no applicability to men. i'm only trying to get a better understanding of this fact of life through reflection and dialogue.

[justme]

I always assumed that most men's problem with the XPOTUS was his taste.

The women in my life have never been prone to look through my stuff.

[Edited by justme on 03-08-2001 at 11:48 AM]

[littleguy]

Guy,

You said "on the whole, escorts are vastly underpaid"

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but on what basis do you believe this is so ?

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by littleguy
Guy,

You said "on the whole, escorts are vastly underpaid"

I know I'm going to regret asking this, but on what basis do you believe this is so?

littleguy,

i hope i don't give you any cause for regret. i have no reason to do so, because your question is a polite and sensible one.

a long time ago, i read some passages from a book about this thing of ours. it was written from the typical civilian point of view, ie, we clients are 'scum'; the women are all pathetic 'victims' -- you know, the usual routine. but, there was a passage i particularly remember; because, it put a slightly different spin on things. it went something like: ~the paradox is that the men are vastly overpaying (for what they are getting), and the women are vastly underpaid (for what they are giving up).~

of course, i would strongly disagree with the first assertion. speaking personally, i'm getting from escorts a life that is a joy to live. i don't want to offend any of the civilians who are lurking here; but, let's just say that all of my civilian friends are married -- and, i don't exactly lie awake at night wishing i could trade places with them, if you get my drift.

looked at from the perspective of what the escorts are receiving, the picture is more ambiguous, imo, than the client side of the equation. i do have to admit, there is something anomalous about certain escorts having a higher annual income than Sandra Day O'Connor and Ruth Bader Ginsburg combined ;). but, then, as Babe Ruth is supposed to have said when it was pointed out that his salary was higher than that of the POTUS, "did the President hit sixty home runs in a single season?"

for that matter, Britney Spears and Alex Rodriguez make much more than brain surgeons and doctors who do heart transplants. but, unlike Supreme Court Justices and skilled surgeons, the best years of an athlete's or performing artist's career tend to be much fewer. and, whereas almost any lawyer or doctor is all but guaranteed a secure middle class existence, the athlete or artist who isn't one of, say, a few hundred 'stars', is pretty much dependent upon teaching gigs, commercial work, etc. (the historic connection between this thing of ours and performing artists is an interesting and fruitful topic for a lengthy discussion of its own. suffice it to say here that it has only been since the early part of the 20th century that performing artists (of either gender) were able to make a living without resort to the generosity of male 'patrons'.)

up to this point, the parallel between escorts and athletes/performing artists holds. but, there is also a significant divergence that weighs in favor of a financial premium for escorts, over and above the economic value of otherwise similar expenditures of talent, time, and effort.

whereas athletes and performers are not generally shunned by mainstream society (in fact the latter were shunned, prior to the 20th century, for the reason mentioned above), escorts are subject to severe stigmatization, especially, as noted by an escort elsewhere, by civilian women.

but, there is a much more important reason why escorts are entitled to a financial premium. whatever the risk of injury to athletes/performers (itself a justification for financial premium), it pales in significance with the risk of disease and violence that escorts are routinely subject to. *** mentioned that he gets a report of violence to another escort weekly. for a variety of reasons, on both sides of the pillow case, this trend will be exacerbated if the economy continues to stall. and, we are at the upper-middle end of the market. below us lies the abyss.

in summary, how much is too much for a client to pay for a much happier life? and, how much is too much for an escort to be paid for putting her life and limb at risk?


[Edited by guy catelli on 03-12-2001 at 04:24 PM]

[littleguy]

GC,

This is nit-picky but I believe The Babe said something like " I had a better year than he had (POTUS)"

Anyway, it's the lady's choice, nobody is forcing her to do it. She can be in any relatively safe job albeit at much lower pay. That, in itself does not make her "vastly underpaid".

As stated before and in many places, the law of supply and demand rules. I was down in Florida last week on vacation and was looking for a new car. A car salesman admitted to me that the luxury car market was already softening because of the economy (stock markey). I believe I saw a hobbyist admit that he had been seeing ladies between 3 and 5 times a week (Phew !!!) and had already cut down to between 1 and 3 times a week.

I don't wish economic harm/recession on anybody (including myself of course) but the next 3-12 months should be very interesting to watch vis-a-vis our hobby, no ?

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by littleguy
.... the next 3-12 months should be very interesting to watch vis-a-vis our hobby, no ?

yes.

[lisa]

i think subject has come up before

how van you rate on the # system everybody has there own likes and dislikes what one hobbist like another maynot then comes the nasty fighting i think if you just continue to write your reviews and how your session went with out putting a # on it things at least on this board would stay alot calmer not like the compition on (***)

but thats just my little old thought
xoxo
lisa

[dicer5]

I haven't read through the whole thread, but the idea of a provider rating system on the public boards is probably a bad idea. When people talk about the competitiveness of women, I think most of the time, it's started by the guys(by telling the woman this or that). When women are told or read that they are rated against another woman, competitiveness by some of them will eventually lead to the wars that you guys write about(and how much you despise it). So if you don't want those kind of wars between woman, maybe you're better off not rating a woman in comparison to another.

[Turbo]

Gotta agree with Dicer here. Maybe it's just cause I have been at this a while, but a usual "trust me" from another hobbyist who I have come to respect is all I need. Rarely have I ever been disappointed by that recommendation.