JAG - sounds very familiar but

[Casper]

Ok before I get lambasted let me first say that I've gone back and researched the old posts and nowhere did I find the URL nor the meaning of JAG.

From past experience I do know that it's some kind of "Board" and I think I've visited it a few times. However for the life of me (old age creeping in some) I cannot remember where to find it again.

Be kind to a UG newbie. BTW this board rocks and I like the interactions between the various posters. I've finally met some people more sarcastic than myself :)

Peace out



[Edited by Casper on 03-04-2001 at 03:27 AM]

[Ozzy]

http://209.236.222.185/default.htm

[frog]

and the meaning of JAG is Johns' Action Guide

[guy catelli]

it started going downhill around the time that Reuters phased out Quotron ;).

[Phantom]

:rolleyes:

And of course GC, YOUR opinion of JAG is TOTALLY unbiased. You have NO ax to grind when to comes to JAG.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Phantom
:rolleyes:And of course GC, YOUR opinion of JAG is TOTALLY unbiased. You have NO ax to grind when to comes to JAG.

thank you, Phantom, for prompting me to amplify my remark about jag ;).

as i have posted here before, there is a valid rationale for a male-only forum for men to freely share about their personal issues -- as men.

however, in a free society, there is no place for a {supposedly secret} organization with thousands of members employing informal star chamber proceedings the virtually explicit purpose of which {according to jag's leading voices} is to keep an already much maligned and unjustly persecuted group of marginalized people 'in their place'.

my position on this has been entirely consistent (regardless of what you may have read elsewhere on UG) my entire life. my position is identical, and every bit as vocal, regarding the so-called aryan nation, the kkk, and similar organizations that members of marginalized groups themselves have formed.

the fact that jag's leading members have professional degrees, lead lives of bourgeois 'respectability', drop names like "Proust" (and proceed to demonstrate their ignorance of the author's meaning), quote Shakespeare in contexts the opposite of the author's intent, fracture french, or twaddle in pig latin ... impresses me not.

trashiness is trashiness, regardless of academic or professional status.

so, yes, i agree, i do "have (an) ax to grind" about trashy secret socities. mind you, this is only the briefest possible summary of why jag nauseates me to the core of my being. however, out of deference to the APM and the other 'powers that be', i will leave it at that, for now.

thank you, again, for prompting me to vent ;).




[Edited by guy catelli on 03-04-2001 at 03:26 PM]

[Phantom]

BIG yawn. That's your opinion of JAG.

[Casper]

Guy; What's Reuters? :)

Ozzie; thanks for the URL

Frog; I knew the AG part of JAG. Damn I should have figured out that "John" part all by myself. Go figure. duh

Thanks for the info guys.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Casper
...Thanks for the info guys.
no problem, Casper ;).

[Ozzy]

guy, if i were you i'd stay out of locker rooms. thats all jag is.......nothing more, nothing less.


and i'm not one to defend it but there's nothing wrong with jag.

[dicer5]

Like ozzy, I don't defend or speak against any of the groups or public boards. I believe its up to the individual to decide on how to use any of the information gained from any of the sites and to decide if they want to participate or be a part of any group, but I do think it's unfair to group any of the boards one comes across in this business to that of the kkk or any other similar affiliates. Also, you can't necessarily control the actions of every member of a group. And what GC speaks of regarding the nature of JAG, I think you can find that in any of the public boards. You can't condemn the whole group because of actions of the minority. I know, personally speaking, I have come across a lot of valuable information from many different boards which has helped me in the decision making processes, but I also realize that as ozzy says, a lot of information you come across is locker room talk. I think many guys know this and so many of them do read with care on how to interpret the info. Pretty much what I'm trying to say is that with any group(be it public or private), especially in this industry, you can find positive and negative qualities about anything.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Ozzy
guy, if i were you i'd stay out of locker rooms. thats all jag is.......nothing more, nothing less.

Oz, i realize that you are making a separate point. but, just to be clear to all readers:

a newbie brought up the subject of jag. i replied merely that it has been going downhill -- a completely uncontroversial view, especially now that much more timely, accurate, and useful (as well as conveniently searchable) information -- Episodes, for just one example -- is available here at UG for free.

someone implied that i have never been favorably disposed towards jag or the culture it fosters. i felt prompted to mention one or two of the reasons why that is true.

since you mentioned it, i agree that jag is a locker room. but then, obviously UG is too. but one is a dark, shadowy locker room where the air is fetid and stale.

and there is the business of some of the men at jag encouraging other men to post sexually explicit reviews for the memberships' erotic arousal. there's no law that i know of against that kind of a locker room culture -- but, let's just say "different strokes ..."

UG, by comparison, has frosted skylight windows, fresh air circulates everywhere, and everyone breathes freely here without perpetual paranoia about infiltrators or implicit accusations that escort-positive clients are 'gender-traitors' (cp. the secret organizations i mentioned in my previous post).

and, honest working women are welcomed here by all men of good will and good sense. yet, i don't see any of the men i knew at jag suddenly becoming shrinking violet, bootlicking, fluffball trading, ass-kissing escort pleasers -- except for myself, of course; but i've been that way all of my life -- it has nothing to do with the fact that UG welcomes ladies ;).



[Edited by guy catelli on 03-04-2001 at 03:34 PM]

[Ozzy]

i take pride in my ass kissing.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Ozzy
i take pride in my ass kissing. i'll kiss your ass if it means i get gold; but that other thing -- no way! ;)

[Richie]

JAG is still the best source of unbiased, complete reviews out there. It is meant for clients only and attempts to keep it that way. Obviously it isn't that hard to penetrate as KS so artfully demonstrated, but it still tries to stay client only. GC - your bias is silly. It is not the KKK. It is not a really secret society. It is a group of guys exchanging information in a male-only atmosphere. I am sure if we looked at provider only boards we would find some information that looked anti-client. That doesn't make it a bad thing. It is time you get over yourself with regard to JAG.

[guy catelli]

JAG is still the best source of unbiased, complete reviews out there.

i am very familiar with jag's reviews, their bias, their incompleteness, and their (absurd, in some cases) inaccuracy. it is impossible for information to be more biased than to present only one side of a story. any child is aware of this; and, 4000 years of jurisprudence make it only too obvious to any fairminded person. jag members think the opposite of all common sense precisely because they aren't aren't fairminded people. i now realize, in a way i never did before coming to asp boards, how stubbornly the oppressor will refuse to admit to himself the nature of his oppressive conduct.

...That doesn't make it a bad thing.

i read many thousands of the postings on jag by their dozen or so biggest noisemakers over a 9-month period. they are very frightened, anti-escort men. they make it very clear that they want 'to keep them in their place', that escorts are merely sex slaves for rent on an hourly basis and that the escorts' true feelings 'should' be a matter of complete indifference to a client (as was repeatedly made clear by one of the 'nicest' of them right here on this board), that anyone who treats them otherwise is their enemy. ad nauseum.

the parallels to the organizations i mentioned vary only in the educational attainment, professional status, and income of its members -- and any differences accidental thereto (specifically, unlike the other organizations mentioned, avoiding any behavior that would expose them to obliquy in the eyes of bourgeois society).

thus, i cannot leave your statement unchallenged: yes, it does "make it a bad thing".

but, i'm very happy to be here at UG where anti-escort posters are not the "venerables" (a direct quote) that they are at jag :).

[Edited by guy catelli on 03-04-2001 at 08:31 PM]

[dicer5]

gc,

I do get your point and that this board does not bring out the negative anti-escort statements that I've seen on jag. But let me ask you this. Do you think that maybe the same people who you talk of posting the anti-escort sentiments on jag are the same people who are being supportive to the women on this board. If so, that means that the people posting between the 2 boards have not changed, its just the forum to which they post. If you are right about Jag, I don't know if its necessarily the board that's bad or the people that make them up. I do believe it's the people who post that give the personality to the boards, and I also think that you are correct in your statements, but I also think that there are other people who participate on this board and on jag that don't fit into the criteria of which you speak of(but I do definitely know what you are saying) I am not trying to start an argument because I hate it when I read arguments on boards, and I do respect your opinion because you do seem very sincere in your opinions.

[Richie]

i read many thousands of the postings on jag by their dozen or so biggest noisemakers over a 9-month period. they are very frightened, anti-escort men. they make it very clear that they
want 'to keep them in their place', that escorts are merely sex slaves for rent on an hourly basis and that the escorts' true feelings 'should' be a matter of complete indifference to a client
(as was repeatedly made clear by one of the 'nicest' of them right here on this board), that anyone who treats them otherwise is their enemy. ad nauseum.

GC - Why would JAG care about keeping providers in their place on a board that doesn't allow providers access? You make no sense. Are JAG posters trying to tell each other how to react? Maybe they are giving each other pep talks on how to keep a provider in her place. I am looking forward to your cut and paste response to my message since you seem to have both unlimited time and unlimited animosity for JAG. You act as though JAG is some type of conspiracy against escorts. You still act as though seeing an escort is some sort of substitute for a personal life. Like we are supposed to be dating them. This isn't a date. It is a mutually beneficial business transaction. If I happen to hit it off with an escort, I feel that I got lucky, but I don't think that they are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. They want the money, I want the sex. The nicer we are to each other, the better the entire thing works, but that doesn't make us some kind of romantic couple, even temporarily.

[guy catelli]

... the people posting between the 2 boards have not changed, its just the forum to which they post. If you are right about Jag, I don't know if its necessarily the board that's bad or the people that make them up. I do believe it's the people who post that give the personality to the boards, ...

dicer, if the premise is true (ie, the same people post differently on one board than the other), then the 'board culture' itself must have at least something to do with it.

and I also think that you are correct in your statements, but I also think that there are other people who participate on this board and on jag that don't fit into the criteria of which you speak of(but I do definitely know what you are saying)

i don't want to blow anybody's mind about this, but exactly the same thing could be said about the other groups i mentioned. imo, it's not the individuals, per se. it's the group dynamic. only in Hollywood is the 'problem of evil' the Hannibal Lecters of the world. in the real world, it's usually people just like everyone else who happen to be caught up in a bad thing.

I am not trying to start an argument because I hate it when I read arguments on boards, and I do respect your opinion because you do seem very sincere in your opinions.

nobody's going to believe this; but, i was so naive about what client culture is (too often) like that when i originally came to asp boards, i thought we were all going to be sitting around singing the praises of escorts.

i'll tell ya, dicer, this has been a very disillusioning experience.

[SkellyChamp]

GC you want to talk about nauseating you should really stop and read the dribble that comes out of your mouth.
You should try writing like you are talking to people, not at them and down at them. You who must use a $10 word to express a nickel thought.

And don't you dare talk about jurisprudence- you who condemn anyone who has a different opinion than yours. You act as judge and jury and, would no doubt if you had the means, executioner.

It always seems as if its the GC way or the highway. God speaks to GC and GC speaks to the masses.

(And before you start suggesting that if I had the education to understand you blah blah blah - I have four degrees including two doctorates and taught at one of the most prestigious institutions in the country). I find the best communication is often the simplest and to talk and write as if I am talking to and with people, not at and down to them).

My apology to all, but I made the mistake of reading this thread and just reached my breaking point.

[guy catelli]

i wasn't writing to you or about you. so, i don't see what this is about.

i ignore the vast majority of the posts on most of the asp boards. i read the ones posted by the people i like, and the ones by people who often raise issues i have a long-standing concern with. most of the others don't interest me one way or the other.

but, there are a few whose posts i know from past experience are likely to bother me. i specifically go out of my way to avoid reading their posts because i find it unpleasant to do so. there are some who get into the middle of a thread and start waving a 'bloody shirt', so in those instances i read their posts, and, where appropriate, i respond.

if you're asking that i change my whole mode of expression to suit your particular tastes, sorry -- no can do. my writing isn't intended to be for everybody. neither are the books and periodicals i read, nor the televison programs and movies i watch, nor the music i listen to, nor, for that matter, the escorts i overwhelmingly prefer.

i've never asked anyone to change their mode of expression; though, let's face it, there's some room for improvement elsewhere too. i really don't understand other peoples' intolerance of that which isn't to their own personal taste.

[SkellyChamp]

Everything posted on an open board is fair game.

Or is it your rule that I, or anyone else, can only post and/or respond to posts you write to me or about me. That is exactly the type of attitude you have that I am talking about.

You trash people who you obviously disagree with like WSB and Phantom to name just two, but you are above being "touched" or talked about. That is exactly the type of attitude you have that I am talking about.

Like I said I usually do not read your posts but I have on occassion and when I do see something I feel like commenting on I will do so, even if it is distasteful to me or to you or to anyone else for that matter. Or are you saying that i can't comment if I so desire, or if I want to get in in the middle of a thread.

Nowhere did I ask you to change your views or how you espouse them - it is your right - just as it is my right to comment and be a voice against your holier-than-thou condescending attitude.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by SkellyChamp
... talk about nauseating you should really stop and read the dribble that comes out of your mouth...... I have four degrees including two doctorates and taught at one of the most prestigious institutions in the country). I find the best communication is .....

i have only a mail-order GED. please afford some allowance for unlettered posters such as myself. thanks.

[SkellyChamp]

As I should have expected when I threw in that afterthought you would in quoting it leave out the most important part - the reason for it and thus be able to quote it out of context.

How predictable of you to leave out the part that explains the reason for the statment so you could turn it to your advantage. Which, again, is a perfect example of some of the things I am talking about. How offended and angry would you be if someone only took a portion of your quote so that it would appear out of context. Very no doubt.


To anyone reading it it would be obvious that I didn't put it in to brag (it is not my way) but rather to counter what no doubt would have been part of your response if I didn't mention that I had, as undoubtedly I believe you had, a superior education.

"(And before you start suggesting that if I had the education to understand you blah blah blah - I have four degrees including two doctorates and taught at one of the most prestigious institutions in the country). I find the best communication is often the simplest and to talk and write as if I am talking to and with people, not at and down to them)."

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by SkellyChamp
Everything posted on an open board is fair game... :p

[Slinky Bender]

Isn't irony delicious sometimes?

[paperpusher]

What a cryptic message after a one year absence and cameo appearances.

Come back! Your wit is missed to say the least.

[justlooking]

Slinkybender wouldn't be Slinkybender if he weren't cryptic.

[h4c]

I wonder how many of the old JAG posters are around now?

There should be a monger-wiki for the old timers.

[h4c]

sorry, double posted

[justlooking]

God, in this thread alone we just got three.

[kingotis]

Funny...I've had a couple comments saying some of my posts reminded people of the good old days of UG. I claim nothing for myself though.

I'm personally retiring from the boards at this point, having tired of being troll bait...and being accused of plagiarism (somehow and for some reason with a reference to this thread) is a perfect example of the shit I am trying to avoid. Even the baseless whispers of paranoid dead souls adhere impossibly and indelibly despite the absence of factual support...no thanks...