View Full Version : Defense of Marriage
nycoder
03-27-2010, 01:30 AM
This conversation was just too bizarre not to share with someone and I can't imagine who else I would tell. So I'm at Rick's and I'm up in the VIP with a very nicely built young lady. She's a native New Yorker so of course she's sarcastic and a bit insane. She notices my wedding ring and she starts asking me about my wife - conversation goes roughly like:
Her: Does your wife have tits?
Me: Yeah, not as big as yours. [not actually true, maybe about the same]
Her: Yeah, I thought so. [wtf?] How old is she?
Me: About the same as me, mid 30s.
Her: Is she fat?
Me: No more so than me - I still find her attractive if that's what you mean.
Her: So why are you here then? It's not like you're old - like 60 or something.
Me: Um, I guess for the usual reasons? I like to play around with other women!
Her: Yeah, but what's wrong with your wife?
Me: Hey, look - my wife said it's ok for me to go to strip clubs, so why do you care? (actually true - although I do wonder if she understands what happens at the club)
Her: Usually if you're married and you're here that means something is wrong at home. What's wrong?
Me: Nothing. Really, everything's fine. I just like to have fun!
After that I managed to get her onto another subject. It really left me thinking what the fuck was that about? Did she want me to feel bad about stepping out on my wife? Is she some kind of undercover pro-marriage anti-stripper? And on top of it all, it was a pretty tame VIP - it's not like we were getting all that hot and heavy. I was hardly breaking any major commandments.
So have you ever been moralized to by a stripper? This was a first for me.
puffin
03-27-2010, 06:07 AM
Best to be ready to walk out when things get weird. The club will be there tomorrow, and you can always head somewhere else. Curtly walking away at places like that is as jarring to a worker as a jolt of cold water in the face, and the bouncer won't rough you up.
Has it happened... yeah. They are human, and humans are often nutty. Unsurprisingly they have freaky stories about odd customers too.
oldfool
03-27-2010, 10:04 AM
Weird shit...like a car salesman advising you to save the planet
Chris_888
03-27-2010, 12:14 PM
It just might be that she is a student and is doing a thesis on why married men go to stripclubs? As she is working she is also doing research, as the old excuse goes " I am stripping to pay my way through school". She is just killing two birds with one stone, or as puffin refers "they are human and humans are often nutty".
Ruv Me Rong Time!!
03-27-2010, 12:18 PM
coder -- you should have turned it around on her. "So why are you here stripping, grinding up against guys crotches when you dont even know there name? did your uncle molest you when you were 10? dont you feel bad about taking money for your body?"
who the hell is she to question you during time you paid for. I would have asked for my $ back and told her to preach to somebody else
imameathead
03-27-2010, 12:22 PM
I've always looked at it like this. If something where wrong at home I'd be looking to hook up with regular girls, not going to
clubs or amps. I really don't think I'm capable of cheating on my wife in the emotional sense. As stupid as that may sound in the real world, I think people on here will understand the difference.
nycoder
03-27-2010, 01:55 PM
coder -- you should have turned it around on her. "So why are you here stripping, grinding up against guys crotches when you dont even know there name? did your uncle molest you when you were 10? dont you feel bad about taking money for your body?"
Haha, that would have been funny, but really I'm not interested in making a girl cry. Imagine how awkward that would be!
As usual though I could definitely have been more assertive. Next time a girl asks about my wife I'm just going to say I don't want to talk about her. And really, why the fuck would I want to talk about her at a strip club?
nycoder
03-27-2010, 01:58 PM
I've always looked at it like this. If something where wrong at home I'd be looking to hook up with regular girls, not going to
clubs or amps. I really don't think I'm capable of cheating on my wife in the emotional sense. As stupid as that may sound in the real world, I think people on here will understand the difference.
Totally agree.
nycoder
03-27-2010, 02:00 PM
It just might be that she is a student and is doing a thesis on why married men go to stripclubs? As she is working she is also doing research, as the old excuse goes " I am stripping to pay my way through school". She is just killing two birds with one stone, or as puffin refers "they are human and humans are often nutty".
Well hell, I wish she'd said that. I could get into a little researcher/subject roleplay. If only she'd had a lab coat...
puffin
03-27-2010, 03:26 PM
Haha, that would have been funny, but really I'm not interested in making a girl cry. Imagine how awkward that would be!
As usual though I could definitely have been more assertive. Next time a girl asks about my wife I'm just going to say I don't want to talk about her. And really, why the fuck would I want to talk about her at a strip club?
Best line of action. Never let it get personal. Never.
Psychosis
03-27-2010, 08:07 PM
Love is a disease cured instantly by marriage!
______________________________________
Detective Briscoe
Law & Order
Gavvy Cravath
03-27-2010, 08:39 PM
I like when Psychosis posts!
bigerik
03-28-2010, 02:42 AM
I've always looked at it like this. If something where wrong at home I'd be looking to hook up with regular girls, not going to
clubs or amps. I really don't think I'm capable of cheating on my wife in the emotional sense. As stupid as that may sound in the real world, I think people on here will understand the difference.
I can't agree more. We DO understand the difference.
We are hard wired to reproduce (or at least practice doing so) as much as possible -- that's basic survival of the fittest stuff. I can make the emotional commitment. All I am doing is paying for a professional to show me their body. My brain needs the diversity in views. Fat, thin, different races, and the thrill of the location. I'm not interested in making friends with these girls, or any girls, other than my GF.
Also I hate to say this but sometimes I just need a good looking girl to be extremely nice to me. It's good for the self confidence. I know I'm paying for it, but I really don't care. If I get shit at work all day, and then my gf is out of town and calling giving me headaches.
I want to relax. Yeah I could go to the gym (ha ha ha) but what makes me feel better is to have some 25 year old girl with a perfect body put her arm on my shoulder and say "Hey baby, you're hot. Want to buy me a drink?" I feel even better when I get to say "No thanks."
I'm sorry I'm shallow. I'm not nasty to the girls in the clubs (actually I'm really polite -- I respect how hard their work can be). But as a guy who never got the attention from the hot girls when I was a kid in high school it feels good now. I don't really care that it's fake.
First post -- this is the one that got me to weigh in after 2+ years of lurking every day! Sorry it's so long.
kilroywashere
03-28-2010, 07:33 PM
This has happen to me, and once they get on that kick its really over, a mood killer.
I always wear my ring, and rarely asked about it. Some will say "oh you are married"
I always answer Yes. If anything other then "thats ok" comes out of her mouth.
Its time to walk take the kid gloves off, game over. One time a girl asked "then why are you
here" my answer is: I want to fuck someone, I want a cute girl to put her mouth on me.
or I want you to rub your ass on my dick until I cum. Can you do any of that? I dont care what they say after that. becuase The mood is aready fucked.
K
marcinny
03-29-2010, 01:31 AM
I am still waiting for the master of stripclubs dialogues to say something here.
Ruv Me Rong Time!!
03-29-2010, 11:51 AM
bigerik -- Glad to see that you've finally come out of the shadows!
Your post is right on the money. If women were wired the same way... there would be guys up there dancing in thongs too.
hoopsfan34
03-30-2010, 12:29 PM
Agreed bigerik...these places are entertainment...
justlooking
03-30-2010, 05:26 PM
http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showpost.php?p=303512&postcount=8
justlooking
03-30-2010, 05:28 PM
http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showpost.php?p=334019&postcount=16
canthelpit
03-30-2010, 05:54 PM
I was hardly breaking any major commandments.
Great line.
marcinny
03-31-2010, 02:19 AM
http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showpost.php?p=303512&postcount=8
http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showpost.php?p=334019&postcount=16
Pure gold
brykster
03-31-2010, 07:24 AM
Your stripper, like most other women, is unable to hold her tongue...even when her words are self-destructive. It was simply her trying to demonstrate some power over you and make you feel something. It obviously worked, because you thought about it and posted it here. She just let you know what they all think because she didn't have the discipline or good sense to keep it to herself.
Traderdave
03-31-2010, 07:43 AM
"Does your mother know you are doing this to make a living??"
That'll shut her up
RuffToy
03-31-2010, 07:49 AM
...She notices my wedding ring and she starts asking me about my wife...
This has happened to me numerous times. My response:
"I'll make you a deal....you don't ask me about my wife, I won't ask you your real name". Then she smiles and we continue.....
justme
03-31-2010, 08:22 AM
But if you can't find out her real name, how will you ever know if she really likes you?
RuffToy
03-31-2010, 09:23 AM
But if you can't find out her real name, how will you ever know if she really likes you?
I'm hoping she doesn't.
justme
03-31-2010, 10:04 AM
But then how do you know whether or not you're wasting your money?
hoopsfan34
03-31-2010, 12:21 PM
great quotes justlooking
RuffToy
03-31-2010, 01:13 PM
But then how do you know whether or not you're wasting your money?
I'm wasting my money either way.
I go to strip clubs knowing all well I'm gonna overspend and receive little in return.
justme
04-01-2010, 09:29 AM
That makes sense.
theboynextdoor
04-01-2010, 08:15 PM
JL,
Great stories. Thanks.
nycoder,
Strange experience. Ricks has some women with attitude, but your story is a new one for any club. Was this during the day or at night? I'm tempted to ask what her name was so that I (and others) don't have a similar experience but I'll leave it at that. Ricks has added many new faces recently. Some people think that they have overhired and that the quality has gone downhill (like other places) while the quantity has increased. You can still find some attractive women there, especially on Tuesday which is lingerie night. But they may have added a few attractive mental patients also.
Thanks for sharing your story. I wonder who she will pick on next.
TBND
lowell
04-01-2010, 09:10 PM
I'm wasting my money either way.
I go to strip clubs knowing all well I'm gonna overspend and receive little in return.
Me too!
Pure, unadulterated Strippershit.
It's been said on this board about 458,883 times that, at some level, strippers hate their custs; it's only a matter of degree and at how high a level. Well, hers was at a high level that night and you got to experience it first-hand - and paid for it as well! My guess is its happened to all of us who go to SCs.
Some of the comeback lines suggested are interesting, but I doubt they would have worked. Strippers can not and/or do not see or comprehend the counter-argument. It just doesnt get accepted as 'input'. " I'm talking about you. Not me. ok?"
One of the last strippers I dated (not "dated") constantly - and I mean fucking constantly - would tell me that I'm a great guy but that she didnt like where we met. When I would politely - and many times not-so-politely - tell her the ONLY reason we met at all was because I was a cust in a SC and SHE IS A STRIPPER AT A SC, it simply didnt register.
Do Not Pass Go. Do Not Collect $100.
That little fact simply NEVER made it to her cerebral cortex no matter how often it was repeated.
http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showpost.php?p=303512&postcount=8
Classic.
That bizzare ability to talk in the abstract while not seeing how it is immediately related to an on-going, real-world situation HAS to come from the same ability they have to be immune from the 'counter-argument' I mentioned in my post. It's the same sort of dis-function. HAS TO BE.
justlooking
04-02-2010, 11:53 AM
That girl certainly displayed more of that ability when I introduced her to posting here.
I knew that's who it was as I read it. Honestly.
justlooking
04-03-2010, 02:54 PM
I don't doubt that for a minute.
brykster
04-03-2010, 05:49 PM
Pure, unadulterated Strippershit.
It's been said on this board about 458,883 times that, at some level, strippers hate their custs; it's only a matter of degree and at how high a level. Well, hers was at a high level that night and you got to experience it first-hand - and paid for it as well! My guess is its happened to all of us who go to SCs.
Some of the comeback lines suggested are interesting, but I doubt they would have worked. Strippers can not and/or do not see or comprehend the counter-argument. It just doesnt get accepted as 'input'. " I'm talking about you. Not me. ok?"
One of the last strippers I dated (not "dated") constantly - and I mean fucking constantly - would tell me that I'm a great guy but that she didnt like where we met. When I would politely - and many times not-so-politely - tell her the ONLY reason we met at all was because I was a cust in a SC and SHE IS A STRIPPER AT A SC, it simply didnt register.
Do Not Pass Go. Do Not Collect $100.
That little fact simply NEVER made it to her cerebral cortex no matter how often it was repeated.
Yes, for some reason the customers are the scumbags; but they are the embodiment of Mother Theresa left with no other choice...good forbid they should forgo the latest, greatest piece of shit Louis Vuitton releases.
Like that river in Egypt.....
Slinky Bender
04-05-2010, 08:27 PM
Every once in a while the PL gets even.
Seen Avery lately?
justlooking
04-06-2010, 12:30 AM
Yeah. She was selling aluminum siding.
Traderdave
04-06-2010, 06:59 AM
Yes, like you are going to meet these women at Harvard.
justlooking
04-06-2010, 09:47 AM
I can't count the number of strippers I've "dated" who went to colleges at least as good as the one I went to.
justme
04-06-2010, 11:18 AM
That girl certainly displayed more of that ability when I introduced her to posting here.
In fairness, she also showed an ability to break down some of those emotional walls.
More than anything else, she was one of the most fascinating players to watch.
justlooking
04-06-2010, 01:12 PM
Oh, yeah, I mean I'm not objective, but I totally agree.
lowell
04-06-2010, 07:18 PM
Yes, like you are going to meet these women at Harvard.
Over the years I have met at least 2 going to NYU. Admittedly both were in the film school, but I have known several who were good students at local NY colleges and graduated to more normal careers. So you never know.
Thorn
04-06-2010, 07:39 PM
Pure gold
Totally agreed.
Thorn
04-06-2010, 07:51 PM
Pure, unadulterated Strippershit.
It's been said on this board about 458,883 times that, at some level, strippers hate their custs; it's only a matter of degree and at how high a level. Well, hers was at a high level that night and you got to experience it first-hand - and paid for it as well! My guess is its happened to all of us who go to SCs.
It has been alleged that sex workers in general disdain their customers.
My own take on it is that there are exceptions that prove the rule, but that the majority of women in the sex industry don't have a particularly good opinion of their clients. Perhaps extending to men in general after a time. I can't really blame them given the circumstances. While I am sure most of us have at least some aspects that are likable, its not like the exchange in your average $200-$300/hr agency session provides a ripe opportunity to see a gent's better side.
Strip-clubs, where everyone seems to be trying to get over on everyone else, perhaps even less so. What I mean by that is that client/provider transactions tend to be more cut and dry [both a plus and a minus] in that they closer to know quantities. Stripper/"custie" transactions are frequently two people maneuvering to supply the least amount of what ever they have to offer for the most the other has to give for it.
Not that unusual in business, but the adversarial feeling it can give to the exchange is not usually the best foot to start out on when exchanging money for sex, or the other way round.
Thorn
04-06-2010, 07:55 PM
Just to add, though it is obvious, if I have had any success with strippers at all - and I would argue that I have - it was first and foremost because I managed to either disarm the adversarial process very quickly, or turn it to my advantage [either way works, though the latter is harder].
In fairness, she also showed an ability to break down some of those emotional walls.
More than anything else, she was one of the most fascinating players to watch.
IMHO, she was fascinating because - among other things - she exhibited many of the classic 'symptoms' of being a stripper along with college-level intelligence. The sample convo provided by JL couldnt make that more evident.
The stripper from my past that I mentioned was similar: college educated, but she had lots of traits you find in the strippers who are not and never will be. Basically: a stripper with a degree. Her problem was that her view of herself was consistently out of whack with reality. I've seen this so many times, I lost count years ago.
After we stopped dating, I really had to re-assess my view that there could be at least a few strippers that dont have serious or moderately serious self-perception/reality issues.
I've pretty much concluded that there are NONE.
Gee, what a surprise, huh?
Yeah. She was selling aluminum siding.
Topless?
justme
04-07-2010, 09:12 AM
After we stopped dating, I really had to re-assess my view that there could be at least a few strippers that dont have serious or moderately serious self-perception/reality issues.
How many sex workers believe the same about their customers? How much of the "sex workers find their customers contemptible" comes from this?
justlooking
04-07-2010, 03:47 PM
Her problem was that her view of herself was consistently out of whack with reality.
But when you think about it, why wouldn't it be?
Stripping is this great way for EVERYBODY -- strippers and customers -- to pretend they aren't engaging in commercial sex. If a girl were really comfortable with the idea of being a prostitute, she'd do prostitution. If she's stripping instead, then there's at least apt to be some level of dischord between what she's doing and what she admits to herself she's doing.
What was interesting about M in her various guises, if I can talk behind her back (and I wish she were still here so I wouldn't be), is that when she did VHM strip-club stuff or CL commercial sex, she was pretty honest about what she was doing. She only lost her bearings when she was doing LM strip-club stuff. And, as much as I jumped on her for that just like everybody else, I sort of symphathise with her. LM strip-club stuff is confusing, not least because neither the customers nor the dancers are acknowledging what the customers really want.
stevana
04-07-2010, 06:19 PM
I have countered the questioning of the nature decsribed here by asking questions in return and then saying "I don't think either of us wants to be where we are right now and doing what we are doing or hinting about doing what we are hinting about doing. I have alot of respect for you. Let's each of us do the right thing and stop this right now." Most often the response is something like, "No, I was just curious. You are here to gat what you want and I am here to give it to you if the deal is right."
justlooking
04-07-2010, 06:35 PM
I am positive I have never had a stripper speak that honestly and directly to me in a mainstream strip clulb.
I don't think most of them even believe that.
stevana
04-07-2010, 07:31 PM
Perhaps it depends on the girl and the topics of discussion before she tries to turn saviour on you.
How many sex workers believe the same about their customers? How much of the "sex workers find their customers contemptible" comes from this?
Oh, there is definitely enough blame to go around on both sides.
I think the constant 'glamor' aspect to stripping and the constant 'chase me' interaction it gives them with custs swells their ego to the size of Montana. Given that, the resulting mis-self-perception isnt hard to understand.
Same thing goes for custs, especially the ones who excel at this 'hobby'. "Hey, I can 'get' any girl I want, just give me the right chance!"
OTOH, I believe both faults come from something inherent to the personalities involved. Still, it isnt impossible for there to be an imbalance between his/her accuracy when it comes to how he/she views himself/herself. And, that difference is where a lot of trouble begins.
But when you think about it, why wouldn't it be?
In my ex-gf/stripper's case, it carried over into civilian life way too much.
And, that is where all the trouble began.
marcinny
04-07-2010, 11:21 PM
Strip-clubs, where everyone seems to be trying to get over on everyone else, perhaps even less so. What I mean by that is that client/provider transactions tend to be more cut and dry [both a plus and a minus] in that they closer to know quantities. Stripper/"custie" transactions are frequently two people maneuvering to supply the least amount of what ever they have to offer for the most the other has to give for it.
I loved this. Great angle.
It also explains why in the world of straight commercial sex, more frequent animosities arise from places where extras are negotiable especially when they are given without fixed rates and where psychology plays a role as well. Upselling is the extreme version of it.
marcinny
04-07-2010, 11:33 PM
After we stopped dating, I really had to re-assess my view that there could be at least a few strippers that dont have serious or moderately serious self-perception/reality issues.
I've pretty much concluded that there are NONE.
Gee, what a surprise, huh?
Ha.
Nevertheless, this is almost an universal issue. Civilians are not safe from it. Considering what we have to go through because of their refusal to accept our reality. I wonder in a general context how the strippers would fare.
Thorn
04-08-2010, 12:42 AM
Her problem was that her view of herself was consistently out of whack with reality. I've seen this so many times, I lost count years ago.
But how could you expect someone who works in a fantasy environment for a great part of their time, is constantly being bombarded by people offering them money, utterances, and other feedback that would certainly give the average person an inflated value of their worth, after a time to have a good sense of what was real or not?
Such a person might easily waiver back and forth between feelings of self-doubt and low self-esteem [they only like me because I make myself available to them] to grandiose notions about their self-worth [who else can command money just for their "company"]?
Its kind of bizarre.
After we stopped dating, I really had to re-assess my view that there could be at least a few strippers that dont have serious or moderately serious self-perception/reality issues.
I've pretty much concluded that there are NONE.
Gee, what a surprise, huh?
How strong would a person have to be to not be affected by the effect of working in a strip-club? Take into consideration that many people have problems to begin with, AND the possibility that strip-clubs attract such types so as to have a greater number of people than the population in general...
BTW, its not like guys get to escape it entirely either. While customers spend less time in strip-clubs than dancers [well, most do] its not like constant exposure to the club environment can't impact their perceptions of reality.
Thorn
04-08-2010, 12:45 AM
If she's stripping instead, then there's at least apt to be some level of dischord between what she's doing and what she admits to herself she's doing.
And in such margins...
As usual, well stated.
Thorn
04-08-2010, 12:48 AM
I am positive I have never had a stripper speak that honestly and directly to me in a mainstream strip clulb.
I don't think most of them even believe that.
And if one ever believed they did one could point such a person to stripperweb [or some other such similar site] to have themselves disillusioned of that forthwith.
LorenzoDeMedici
04-08-2010, 07:35 AM
LM strip-club stuff is confusing, not least because neither the customers nor the dancers are acknowledging what the customers really want.
....because The Truth of any and all "Compromise" is that both side wind up partially.. Unhappy!
But how could you expect someone who works in a fantasy environment for a great part of their time, is constantly being bombarded by people offering them money, utterances, and other feedback that would certainly give the average person an inflated value of their worth, after a time to have a good sense of what was real or not?
She only worked two nights a week (guess which two those were - ha!), so it was far from being a great part of her time. I didnt know her before she started stripping, but over the time I knew her as a stripper (about 3 years) I noticed (in retrospect, anyway) more and more of that behavior creep into her personality. The environment definitely had an effect on her.
Ha.
Nevertheless, this is almost an universal issue. Civilians are not safe from it. Considering what we have to go through because of their refusal to accept our reality. I wonder in a general context how the strippers would fare.
I agree; it's only a matter of how much damage there is. The carryover into civilian life is what frosted my ass in her particular case. It was too much for me. After a while I didnt feel liked I was dating someone who 'didnt belong' as a stripper, making some extra money to help finaance her education, but a 100 percent, you-bet-your-ass-she-belongs-there stripper.
justlooking
04-08-2010, 02:44 PM
There's some sort of pertinent stuff in this (http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16080) thread.
That's a very good thread on the subject, JL.
My issue or point or whatever the hell it was that first struck me when I posted in this thread was that if they stay at it long enough, even the strippers that 'dont belong there' become strippers that do belong there. The metamorphosis of the one I mentioned was disturbing to witness. And that change happened without her realizing it: that was the way in which she really had a total mis-perception of herself. She still thought of herself as someone that doesnt belong there long after that was anywhere near accurate. It seems to me many of them have the same problem as it does explain (partially) why there is that constant disdain for custs.
justlooking
04-13-2010, 10:15 PM
I don't disagree with you at all.
justlooking
04-13-2010, 10:37 PM
It's sad to watch.
Thorn
04-14-2010, 01:23 AM
Its not like it happens only to strippers.
justlooking
04-14-2010, 10:33 AM
Excellent point.
justme
04-14-2010, 10:52 AM
It's sad to watch.
Isn't it? I remember being a first night customer for a girl who was stripping to fulfill some kind of emotional need. Watching her go from slightly insecure and sex-curious to full on stripper dysfunctional over a year was tragic.
justme
04-14-2010, 10:53 AM
OTOH, I believe both faults come from something inherent to the personalities involved.
Agreed. Mostly.
Isn't it? I remember being a first night customer for a girl who was stripping to fulfill some kind of emotional need. Watching her go from slightly insecure and sex-curious to full on stripper dysfunctional over a year was tragic.
Now make that girl your gf and you have an idea of what I went through.
This was also something of a classic example of girls getting trapped by the SC scene. This ex-gf had a friend who got her into it in the usual innocent way: it's an easy way to make money.
Among many 'problems' they had were the lengths they both went to keeping what they did a secret from their civilian friends. This friend had been doing this a while and never had a bf from anywhere near the area they lived. She even went on one of the computer dating sites and hooked up with some dude from another (not-too-close) state. I heard about how that went second-hand. From all indications it went very well until he discovered what she did for a living and then it immediately turned into shit. I dont know the details of how he 'found out', but my educated guess is that he figured it out himself. IMHO, it really isnt hard to spot a stripper, especially if you're dating her, fer cryin out loud! You know her work hours, you know her sleep patterns...it's only a matter of time.
My (then) gf and her 'mentor' friend were, for a while, totally puzzled at why this dude suddenly started treating her friend like shit. "He's cheap....He lies to her all the time...he makes promises, then doesnt keep them"...blah, blah, blah....
When these complaints came up in convo with my gf, I would ask: "Has __________ told him what she does to make money yet?".
Never got an answer. Didnt need one, really.
justme
04-15-2010, 08:45 AM
Now make that girl your gf and you have an idea of what I went through.
Do you still date strippers?
Do you still date strippers?
Not right now I'm not. It's all "dating". I would still date (not "date") if/when the opportunity came up but that particular episode really made me re-think the 'diamond-in-the-rough' idea. If your DITR continues stripping for too long a time, she turns into a lump of coal.
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