Taking The Plunge

[Monk]

So you see a new ad for a provider who has no reviews, hasn't participated in the boards and appears to either be new to the business, or new to the area. Yet you decide to see her anyway.

What factors go into your decision to take the plunge and see her anyway? What pushes you over the edge?

[marcinny]

I have seen providers without reviews, but almost never one whose ad just popped.

I enjoy reading the reviews, but there is some thrill to try the unknown. I set very low expectations in this case.

Apart from the stupidity of the moment, which I find it hard to explain/describe, other factors are certainly the proximity, the picture (despite the potential fakeness - there is a mind process in faking an appearance so you get a signal there), the wording of the ad.

Price is a factor but not determinant, as with a non-reviewed provider you never know what the real price can be.

Among all these, I repeat, it is the stupidity of the moment that drives me to TOFTT.

New ads don't do it for me. It is usually an ad that I have seen circulating for a long time that eventually gets me to try it.

[marcinny]

Basically the least you know the crazier the thrill. If you enjoy the rush of the adrenaline that will make for it. Picking up a SW is the greatest thrill, although I would never dare to do it.

[Scott68]

So you see a new ad for a provider who has no reviews, hasn't participated in the boards and appears to either be new to the business, or new to the area. Yet you decide to see her anyway.

What factors go into your decision to take the plunge and see her anyway? What pushes you over the edge?


The assumed accuracy or the picture, the phone conversation is key for me and incall is a must. Location may have something to do with it an if it's a hotel/motel, it better be a nice one. I haven't done it that much but those are the key elements.

[RuffToy]

The assumed accuracy or the picture, the phone conversation is key for me and incall is a must. Location may have something to do with it an if it's a hotel/motel, it better be a nice one. I haven't done it that much but those are the key elements.

The problem is, you can never be quite sure the person on the phone is the person you're going to see.

[RuffToy]

I'm a freakin' scaredy cat. If there's no 411 at all, I ain't gonna be the guinea pig.

[Scott68]

I'm a freakin' scaredy cat. If there's no 411 at all, I ain't gonna be the guinea pig.

I'll meet out front or in the lobby only! I won't go directly to a room blank. I'm a glutton for adrenaline, but that would be too much for me.

[justlooking]

You really ARE a fraidy cat.

80% of the prostitutes I saw were unreviewed.

I would AVOID people who were reviewed. I just wasn't into that scene.

[RuffToy]

You really ARE a fraidy cat.

80% of the prostitutes I saw were unreviewed.

I would AVOID people who were reviewed. I just wasn't into that scene.

Prostitutes? Is that what we were talking about? I thought we were discussing restaurants :D

[DaveNJ]

When I first started hobbying, the idea of reviews for working girls wasn't something I thought about. I took the plunge on many occasions, and fortunately everything worked out OK. But that was a different time, before NJ got so hot with LE activity. Eventually, I started looking online, found a few review boards, and finally settled on UG.

Nowadays, fuhgeddaboutit. I've been on a temporary hiatus from hobbying, but when I jump back in I'll only see providers that are reviewed, or have enough of a posting history on CL that I have a pretty good idea that they're for real. Too much BS, too many B&S posts, and a higher chance that a poster on CL with no history could be a police sting nowadays.

[justlooking]

Prostitutes? Is that what we were talking about? I thought we were discussing restaurants :D

I DEFINITELY try to go to those before the reviews come in.

I HATE having other people doing my thinking for me.

[PhoenixAdult]

This makes me feel like less of a sales person when I tell potential clients that running a longer term campaign will be better for them. My spin has always been, if you become a regular with us you will be given an edge. People will trust your ad is more legit over others who come in for a week and disappear.

When a new ad pops up, some people may be intrigued, but especially with the stuff going on in Boston, I always assumed guys liked the girls who every week are running something.

[marcinny]

Prostitutes? Is that what we were talking about? I thought we were discussing restaurants :D

Make sure to fondle the waitress first and make her touch your dick. Just to make sure it is really a restaurant and not an LE set up for those addicted to risotto ai funghi porcini.

[RuffToy]

I DEFINITELY try to go to those before the reviews come in.

I HATE having other people doing my thinking for me.

You're just the quintessential trail blazer, ain't ya?

Wasn't that you at the opening of the Original Nedicks.

[justlooking]

Hey, I was the one who told them people would like it if they sold orange soda alongside their hot dogs.

[FlirtyWifeChristine]

wow, a lot of voices saying they'd never see a new or unreviewed girl. So how the heck is a new girl supposed to get her start? Sounds to me like her best choice is to start with an agency and work that to develop some regulars before goin indy. Then, offer her regulars same rate, and ask for reviews (because on some boards, the reviews will not follow the girl).

Humm... As a married provider couple, we sought out all the major local agencies, while most liked the idea, and get requests, none wanted to take a chance.

So we've been fortunate thanks to good marketing, real photos and a few trailblazers.

xxoo

Christine & Alex - Hot Married Couple
Phlirty Phantasies & Phun Adventures in Phoenix

[Duckman]

new girlSubstitute girl with business, director. or product and you have the general problem.

New = Risk.

[franca]

There are plenty of guys that will try an unreviewed girl. They tend not to be the guys that post frequently on PMBs.

[justlooking]

wow, a lot of voices saying they'd never see a new or unreviewed girl. So how the heck is a new girl supposed to get her start? Sounds to me like her best choice is to start with an agency and work that to develop some regulars before goin indy. Then, offer her regulars same rate, and ask for reviews (because on some boards, the reviews will not follow the girl).

Humm... As a married provider couple, we sought out all the major local agencies, while most liked the idea, and get requests, none wanted to take a chance.

So we've been fortunate thanks to good marketing, real photos and a few trailblazers.

xxoo

Christine & Alex - Hot Married Couple
Phlirty Phantasies & Phun Adventures in Phoenix

Funny you should say this, when you also insist that any "smart" john should have a set of known prostitutes to use as references.

I guess you want people to diverge from the herd when it comes to seeing you, but otherwise be in the heard for purposes of your screening.

[FlirtyWifeChristine]

Funny you should say this, when you also insist that any "smart" john should have a set of known prostitutes to use as references.

I guess you want people to diverge from the herd when it comes to seeing you, but otherwise be in the heard for purposes of your screening.

Actually Mr. JustLooking, the solution for a gent lacking reviews is fairly simple. We readily and eagerly accept Date-Check or P411. This is the perfect solution for the gent getting started in the hobby. So there's no need to "diverge from the herd" as you say. ;)

xxoo

Christine & Alex - Married Couple
Phun - Phlirtation - Phantasy - Phoenix

[franca]

I hope that the guys who do see unreviewed working girls will speak up for themselves. From where I sit, I looks like what is going on, is that they are using their own good judgement and listening to their big head when a voice in the back of it says "warning, this smells like bullshit!"

These guys have found somebody, who from the ad/website copy and photographs appears to be the kind of woman they are interested in. After communicating with her, if she still seems real, they go for it. They are willing to risk calling it off if things get hinky when she shows up. Their judgement is pretty good, though. I bet after they deal with one rip-off (or attempted rip-off), the worst that ever happens again is that the woman they book turns out not as great as she seemed at first. And, "not as great as she seemed at first" could just as easily happen with a working girl that has pages and pages of glowing reviews.

[justlooking]

Actually Mr. JustLooking, the solution for a gent lacking reviews is fairly simple. We readily and eagerly accept Date-Check or P411. This is the perfect solution for the gent getting started in the hobby. So there's no need to "diverge from the herd" as you say. ;)

xxoo

Christine & Alex - Married Couple
Phun - Phlirtation - Phantasy - Phoenix

Signing up with a Registry Of Whoremongers is absolutely going with the herd.*

I can't speak for anyone else, but if I am ever retarded enough to permit myself to be put on such a registry, directly connected with illegal activity, please shoot me immediately.
__________________________________________
* Thanks a lot for correcting that rather embarrassing spelling misstake, guys!

[justlooking]

I hope that the guys who do see unreviewed working girls will speak up for themselves. From where I sit, I looks like what is going on, is that they are using their own good judgement and listening to their big head when a voice in the back of it says "warning, this smells like bullshit!"

These guys have found somebody, who from the ad/website copy and photographs appears to be the kind of woman they are interested in. After communicating with her, if she still seems real, they go for it. They are willing to risk calling it off if things get hinky when she shows up. Their judgement is pretty good, though. I bet after they deal with one rip-off (or attempted rip-off), the worst that ever happens again is that the woman they book turns out not as great as she seemed at first. And, "not as great as she seemed at first" could just as easily happen with a working girl that has pages and pages of glowing reviews.

This is exactly right, in my experience.

[robnotbob]

Back 10 years ago, when I was just starting in the MP world, I would go to *** (pre UG) or the back NY mag and look at ads and some reviews and see what I was comfortable with and go see the girl. Most of the time, there were no reviews posted anywhere. I would post a review only to see that a bunch of other guys had seen her too and then add their $.02. So it's all about your "gut" and what feels right.

[justme]

The girls I saw were often long gone by the time any reviews of them started to trickle in. The biggest returns came with assuming some amount of risk.

Filtering out good prostitutes from bad ones is a skill that you can develop over time if you're willing to get screwed some on the front end and pay plenty of attention to what works.

[FlirtyWifeChristine]

Signing up with a Registry Of Whoremongers is absolutely going with the herd.*

I can't speak for anyone else, but if I am ever retarded enough to permit myself to be put on such a registry, directly connected with illegal activity, please shoot me immediately.
__________________________________________
* Thanks a lot for correcting that rather embarrassing spelling mistake**, guys!

Mr. JustLooking, We respectfully disagree. Registration with a reputable verification service is not "going with the herd" none-the-less, even if it is, so what, the goal again is safety.

Further, Date-Check and P411 are NOT connected to any "illegal" activity. Their role is verification only, useful to lots of professions who's activities have nothing to do with anything illegal and are typically offered in a private setting.

Anyone that provides services in a private setting is risking their safety, this includes strip dancers, nude models, masseuse, erotic photographers, companions (time only) - none of these professions are illegal, only the solicitation of sex acts for money is.

;) --> remember, what happens between two consenting adults is up to them.

Sir, the tone of your writing troubles us, (I hope I am simply just misinterpreting you), it sounds to us you have very little regard for the personal safety of escorts / providers; that in fact you view these people as "lesser" and expendable. Am I reading this accurately?

The goal with screening, (registered or not) is to insure the providers (and ultimately yours) safety - refusing to "follow the herd", as you put it, in some form or another is only putting yourself (and others) at unnecessary risk.

xxoo

Christine & Alex - Married Couple
Phun - Phlirtation - Phantasy - Phoenix

___________________________________________
** Oops, sorry, didn't mean to catch another misspelling. ;)

[justlooking]

;) --> remember, what happens between two consenting adults is up to them.

As I'm sure you're aware, this bullshit disclaimer gives neither the supply side nor the demand side the slightest bit of protection when it is so easily established that a sale of sexual services is occurring.

Sir, the tone of your writing troubles us, (I hope I am simply just misinterpreting you), it sounds to us you have very little regard for the personal safety of escorts / providers; that in fact you view these people as "lesser" and expendable. Am I reading this accurately?

That could not be further from the truth.

It does bother me, however, when people on YOUR side of the equation start giving off the vibe that they're doing us johns a big favor by selling us sexual services, and that we should be so grateful that we should forego the kind of self-protection that any person with half a brain would enage in -- even though YOU'RE the ones who are getting paid to take risks, not us.

My point is solely that, if a john is bothered by screening requirements, there are ways to arrange your commercial sex life so that it will not be required that you hand over personal information to someone you don't know. (I'm not saying you won't disclose personal info; only not to someone you don't know.)

** Oops, sorry, didn't mean to catch another misspelling. ;)

No, please. Point 'em out whenever you find them.

[Monk]

I don't want to turn this into another verification debate thread. We could start a thread elsewhere (a different section) regarding the online verification services. Enough to say that some of us on the client side value our privacy (and have a lot to lose if our true identities were ever discovered), and wish to limit the number of places our personal information is stored. So, for us, the online verification services are simply not an option. Not to respect these concerns, frankly, is as troubling to us as the supply side's concerns for protecting their safety is for them. Therein lies the dilemma.

I'd still like to see more responses to the original question on this thread: what pushes you over the edge when deciding to see unreviewed and unknown providers? I'm specifically interested in what you see in their classified ads or Web sites that factors into your decision (other than the obvious).

[Scott68]

Pictures obviously are the biggest attraction. If they are professional, which means airbrushed, you can tell. Is she attractive without the "professional photography"?

If I do a search, and it's all blank, I would not partake until something comes up over the radar.

Price, is it along the average?

Does she provide for an incall location that I'm comfortable with?

These are just a few of the criteria that I use when a new provider pops up that I may want to see.

[justlooking]

Back when I was doing things off ads, I'd look for signs of personality (a personality I liked, obviously). If the prose on the site sounded like typical sexual services advertising stuff -- or, even worse, the Miss Piggy elocutions of service providers trying to sound "classy" -- I'd have no interest whatsoever. If the copy tried to evidence interest in the kinds of things I'm interested in -- the performing arts, wine, that kind of shit -- but suggested the person writing it was an ignorant poseur, forget it, too. But occassionally, someone would come across as a real, quirky individual. That's what I'd go for.

Suggestive photos were a real turn-off for me. There was once an occassion when this stipper I'd been "friends" with went pro, and her ad photos were riotously funny. I knew her as this sharp person with a killer smile -- but there she was in her ad photos making these patently phony, even ugly, fuck faces to the world. The kind of expressions nobody makes in real life, even in the throughs of ecstacy -- much less when they're posing for a picture in a studio. At least in my view, her ad photos made her seem much less appealing than she was.

So I didn't like photos where women looked like they're trying to dress up as prostitutes (I mean, they were prostitutes -- they didn't have look like they were pretending to be somebody's bad idea of what a prostitute looks like). I liked photos where women looked like themselves (within the confines of concealing their identities, of course).

[nychelsea]

I totally agree with JL on this. Just as the ladies have the right to require any type of screening they want, us guys have the right to opt out of screening, especially to people we don't know. This certainly does not mean we don't hold the safety of the ladies in high regard - couldn't be farther from the truth, as a matter of fact.

Anonymously,

Chels

[FlirtyWifeChristine]

is there a verification debate thread elsewhere? I'd be happy to continue this discussion in the appropriate thread.

[justlooking]

There are a bunch of them, but here's the most recent one:

http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35915

[HawkEye65]

is there a verification debate thread elsewhere? I'd be happy to continue this discussion in the appropriate thread.

Wow, you are going to be doing a lot of reading to catch up! I'm staying out of this one, I've already sid my piece, and what JL and NYCHELS said in the last 2 posts sums it up for me. One thing I will say, it's interesting reading.

[FlirtyWifeChristine]

Wow, you are going to be doing a lot of reading to catch up! I'm staying out of this one, I've already sid my piece, and what JL and NYCHELS said in the last 2 posts sums it up for me. One thing I will say, it's interesting reading.

Yea. I took one look at that huge, bloated thread and not only was depressed at the amount of reading required to catch up, but, the first page pretty much covered anything else I may have wanted to add. I fear the rest of the thread is merely a regurgitation of the same in different words by different authors.

End of the day, we're still gonna operate as we do, you'll do what you need to and hey - best of luck to you.

xxoo

Christine & Alex - Young Married Couple
Phlirty Phantasies & Phreaky Phun Adventures in Phoenix

[Retoxicate]

I hope that the guys who do see unreviewed working girls will speak up for themselves. From where I sit, I looks like what is going on, is that they are using their own good judgement and listening to their big head when a voice in the back of it says "warning, this smells like bullshit!"

These guys have found somebody, who from the ad/website copy and photographs appears to be the kind of woman they are interested in. After communicating with her, if she still seems real, they go for it. They are willing to risk calling it off if things get hinky when she shows up. Their judgement is pretty good, though. I bet after they deal with one rip-off (or attempted rip-off), the worst that ever happens again is that the woman they book turns out not as great as she seemed at first. And, "not as great as she seemed at first" could just as easily happen with a working girl that has pages and pages of glowing reviews.

This sounds like me. And hinky is such an awesome word.

[franca]

And hinky is such an awesome word.

Totally.

[FlirtyWifeChristine]

Anyway, back to answering the question at hand... What research should a hobbyist on a PROVIDER if she has no reviews.

1) Ask if she has reviews - just cuz they are not on your board, does not mean there are no reviews, they may just be elsewhere.

2) Google is your friend...
a) Try various search combinations of her phone number, name and/or location.
b) Then do the same searches replacing her email address with her phone #
c) Add "scam", "warning", and "alert" to the searches to see if another hobbyists has documented a bad experience.

NOTE: inconsistencies that come up in search results, aliases, etc, do search 2C with aliases.

Still coming up empty - this is getting closer to a good thing.

Ask if the lady is on Date-check, P411 or RS2000 - if she is, your still not in the clear, but at least you know someone else had to couch for the lady.

Ask to speak to the lady on the phone, see how she handles herself, is she interested in you or are you an inconvenience (thats an indication of how the session will go).

Ask the lady for a reference, while its awkward, we all have a client we've recently seen that we could ask if they would vouch for us. Most can be contacted discreetly or on another board and we can tell you where to find them.

Lastly, ask the lady to meet you for coffee - again, if she is serious, and has a mind for customer service, she will try to meet you.

In Alex's opinion, a casual coffee meeting might be the best tool....

Ok, Alex here, we've been searching for doubles partners, we get lots of positive interest from ladies via email and even have some awesome phone convos, but in the end, we tell them we refuse to refer them until we have met them TWICE. Some of the most enthusiastic ladies have failed right here, the no-call-no-show, endless cancellations, you find out real quick who WANTS to work and who is either too busy or who is just unprofessional.

Christine again... Alex may be right, this process has been very frustrating, and a real eye-opener.

xxoo

Christine & Alex - Married Couple Adventures
Flirty Fun Fantasies & Erotic Encounters

[tiger_style]

Certain phrases and words have a magical effect on me:
drain
swallow
release
relief
pops
CIM
BBBJ etc