A little respect

[Ezrlove]

I am fairly new to the internet hobby style. I have been in the hobby for quite a few years. I guess that the best part of bringing the hobby on-line is being able to state your opinion. Well I am about to state my opinion and I think a lot of people are not going to like it.

I have never read so many inconsiderate posts on a board. Some of the members on this board complained that there are not enough providers posting here. When a few of them decide to post , you guys disrepsect them and show no understanding, emotion, compassion or respect for them. I am not speaking to all of the members on this board just a few of them. Know wonders Val left and I would not be surprised if Lisa stopped posting also.

People post nasty comments or try to be funny on-line but would never have the balls to say the same things face to face. And this whole idea of coming to the defense of my fellow *brothers*, what the hell is that all about.

We (hobbyist and providers) are a very small community. A community that a lot of people look down upon. One would think that we would be open minded and supportive of each other not poke fun at or disrepect.

[TuckernotSucker]

I agreen with everything you say. If all of us treat each other with respect as well as the ladies they will be more amicable and approachable on these boards.
But, we must remember, not everyone is nice. Girls as well as the men. If we are civilized on these boards we can weed out the ones that are for us. There are many men that abuse these women in session. There are many women that do not supply the proper service for the fees they are charging.
This board can have an impact on helping all find the matches in their pursuit of the hobby.
Jake (going for silver)

[Carl M]

You know, there has been some spillover from *** that we do not need here!

[HornDogBuddah]

Hobbyists and Providers who post on internet boards are but a very small percentage of Hs and Ps in total. Given the irresponsible, reprehensible, and downright criminal behavior that people exhibit in the "real" world, where they run the very distinct risk of being observed, reported, investigated, and punished, it is of little surprise to see that similar behaviors are manifested in the virtual world. Here there is little jeopardy, with little payment to be made for "transgressions" -- it almost begs for free-for-all behavior.

I say we are lucky that the behaviors on this board are so moderate considering what they might possibly be. Don't misunderstand me -- I am by no means supporting, encouraging, or condoning the behaviors you abhor. I, too, find much of that distasteful and extremely annoying. On the other hand, anyone who expresses an opinion on this or any other board is fair game to be challenged. I think some people either don't know how to challenge opinions and behaviors without attacking the person or they just don't care to take the time and effort.

[Paige]

No one showed me one iota of respect all over my preference and some of u do know me and have seen me.Meanwhile, Back at the ranch u all have your preferences I was just woman enough to state it unlike some other broads who Kiss Tush because they live in fear of a bad review.Ahhhhh the truth hits home and will always bite ya in the rear.So ya wanna turn over a newleaf I will but question is Will You?
Paige

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Ezrlove
......Some of the members on this board complained that there are not enough providers posting here. When a few of them decide to post , you guys disrepsect them and show no understanding, emotion, compassion or respect for them.......


i couldn't agree more, Ezrlove.

perhaps the APM might want to consider creating a new section, with a title like "The Oak Room at UG." this section would be more tightly moderated than other boards. gentleman would be required to be gentleman; and, ladies would be expected to be 'lady-like'.

those who were out of order would be asked to adjourn to the General section, or one of the other sections.

just a thought -- it might attract more ladies.

[littleguy]

Could somebody please explain Paige's post to me ?

[Saint Bart]

I agree - without the present day ladies, there would be no hobby as we now know it.
I don't know what it was like 10 or 15 years ago, but I have to believe the quality -beauty, intelligence, etc - of provider is 10X or 100X better today.
If we don't treat them with respect, as the Goddesses of Love that they are, in our reviews and comments, we only shoot ourselves in the foot. The best can always find some rich old guy to support them, which means we're the losers!
Sure, I'd like to see every gynocological detail in every review, but it's not fair to the ladies. They have to have their own options to make the business pleasurable for themselves. So, I'd rather see less detail and more "color" to the reviews and total experience. I can read between the lines, and with the right lady I don't have to check off every aspect that I need for GFE to have a good, or even a great, time!

[LIDAWN]

hey baby... i think that you are right.. but i also know that it is impossible for all the kids to play nice together all the time..
i do wish he had a seperate page for review and reply only for the girls to respond to the reviews like a thank you and such.. some of you guys have spoiled us beyond belief and it has been amazing.. so kind and loving and generous.. I have had only one bad experience....
that is it.... the rest over the last three months have been beautiful and reciprical and fun..
Hugzz to the gents who make this work like it should and more to the ones who make it play and everything to those that make it work out easy ,fun and oh my gosh where did you learn that......
hugzzz dawn

[justme]

People post nasty comments or try to be funny on-line but would never have the balls to say the same things face to face.

Never said a thing to anyone online that I wouldn't say to their face... in fact given the ability to read and ponder what I write, I'm sure I'm much nicer online. For the record I've seen many more instances of insults directed an men on UG than those directed at women. Wondering what all the fuss is. Also wondering if it has anything to do with thankfully outmoded ideas of chivalry and similar sexist concepts that disempower females...

[LIDAWN]

touche' o love a great and in sightful response..
xxoo dawn

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by justme
... wondering if it has anything to do with thankfully outmoded ideas of chivalry and similar sexist concepts that disempower females...

yeah, that's the ticket! the cynics aren't cruelly wounding the feelings of honest working women who can't respond without suffering negative financial consequences -- they're trying to 'empower' women to break free of the ancient shackles of chivalry that the Romantics seek to impose on them! yeah, that's the ticket ...

rediculous :p

[guy catelli]

Saint Bart,

you have perfectly summed up the picture. more mature clients don't need diagrams, instruction manuals, secret decoder rings, etc -- we already know the basics.

what we want is to get a sense of the 'colors', as you put it. it is interesting that the strictest 'functionalist' will be among the first to point out that the reader gets the clearest take on an escort's negative attributes from her own posts, in spite of her contrary intent.

it is equally obvious that the clearest picture of an escort's positive attributes would come from the same source and in the same manner: reading between the lines of her posts.




[Edited by guy catelli on 02-22-2001 at 11:34 PM]

[guy catelli]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by justme
Never said a thing to anyone online that I wouldn't say to their face...

you continue to miss the whole point. you would never call someone in a position of authority over you a name, or otherwise characterize them, in a way that they had clearly expressed to you was offensive to them -- unless you were insane. and you wouldn't do so with anyone at all unless you consciously intended to offend them, make an enemy of them, and/or drive them away.

that you persist in doing so in this context proves what every feminist is saying about 'who has the power'.

For the record I've seen many more instances of insults directed a(t) men on UG than those directed at women.

we don't have a shortage of thick-skinned clients. we have a shortage of escorts.

Wondering what all the fuss is.

well, at this point, the responsibility for that lies with you. it's been explained to you at great length, and with great detail and specificity. yet, if the tables were turned, you would understand in a second. there's no great 'mystery' here. it is obvious at this point that no proofs will ever suffice.

the consequence of this is that only those escorts who are willing to cater to 'functionalists' will regularly participate. you can pride yourself with this proof-by-absence that functionalism is all that this thing of ours is about. and, thus, that there is no valid reason for escorts to object to your choice of how to characterize their thus demonstrated 'functionalism'.

meanwhile, those of us who want to read the writings of escorts who cater to clients interested in a more wholistic approach to this thing of ours will forever be denied that opportunity here, by the insistence of you, and the like-mided, on driving them away, all the while maintaining a stance of "wondering what the fuss is".



[Edited by guy catelli on 02-22-2001 at 11:31 PM]

[justme]

Didn't mean to piss in your cornflakes (stolen, but loved expression). I never said that there hasn't been an insulting remark made to providors, just that they weren't too common here. I've already agreed to the presence (and expressed my distaste) for those comments made in other places. To be clearer, most of the offending remarks to johns have been made by other johns.

As far as the disempowering notion that men must stick up for women, I stick to my guns. And I think that many women (Amber? Candi? KS?) would agree with the point, and I think that's why you got a little shit over on *** from pros a few months ago.

You're right i would never talk to someone that has power over me as a peer. I don't think that I have power over pros and I don't think that have power over me. In all honesty (and this is the first time I've actually said this on-line) I think that we as groups are collaborators to mutual abuse and further disfunction. The way I talk to (most) pros is the way I'd talk to any person I considered a peer.

As far as the notion of dumbing down or nicing up posts in some effort to attract providors, I think this too is stupid. For me the point of these boards is not to romance women that I pay to sleep with me, but rather to gain a further understanding of why exactly it is that I persist in this behavior and what the long run effects will be. I can't possibly apologize for having a different agenda from romantics or even those looking to find the next greatest paid for lay. I'm sorry if I'm intruding on your game. Although, to me, it's a bit like using expensive bait to go fishing in a seeded pond.

As far as ignoring proof... my god, please don't abuse that poor word any more than it already has been abused.

[Tankcommander]

Two theories here... I'm not saying whether they are right or wrong, just what I percieve them to be...

1) This board is primarily for clients and thus, accurate information must be transmitted, good or bad. Providers are given a chance to defend themselves.

On the other hand,

2) We want more providers on this board, so we only post good information.

Now, I missed the catalyst of why Valerie withdrew from the board, so I cannot comment on that. Anyone want to enlighten me?

[Slinky Bender]

When I have given sales training seminars I try to always impart something which was taught to me by an expert sales trainer:

Everyone buys for the same reason. Their reason. Everyone has their own reason for coming here, and then has their own reason for leaving. It's always a mistake to try and impart your own motivations for doing something upon someone else, even if they are engaged in the same action you are.

[justme]

It is clear that people have different motivations, and it is clear that they should not expect to impart those motivations onto others, but I think it is equally clear that they will espouse and fight for those motivations, no?

[Tankcommander]

"Every New Yorker has a God given right to be rude"

[Tankcommander]

Staying up and whacking off all night has made my brain cells abandon their duty stations

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by slinkybender
When I have given sales training seminars ...


"now, we can begin..."

{bonus points for naming source of quote}

[SS]

Of the ladies I've had the opportunity to spend time with, I've always treated them with respect and we all had a good time. I've almost always given a good review of the ladies I've spent time with.

There were only 2 reviews I've ever given that were negative, but they were both warranted. The one lady (from south jersey) smelled from cigarettee smoke and had body odor because she didn't shower prior to our session.

I always shower prior to a session!!! I think it's right for both the lady and myself to be squeaky clean before having fun. My mistake was not seeing her pic and went into it blind. The pic would have at least helped me guage whether or not to go for it.

I'm very picky. When I contact a lady I wish to see, it is b/c of an attraction, not just to gain another notch in my belt.

It's like seeing a movie, you have to see it and evaluate it for yourself, as everyone has different tastes. Gee, for the orally inclind that has a double meaning doesn't it. :)

Some people may say a movie is terrible, but I go see it and love it and visa versa. Ladires are the same. Just as you may not like the lady when you actually meet her, although at first galnce of her pic and desc you felt it is/was a match, the lady may not hit it of with us as well, due to personality conflict or other reason.

So take reviews for what they are worth, a persons specific opinion! Whether good or bad, they should be respectful and fair and honest !

After awhile, we all begin to know who the regulars are here and know the style/content of our reviews. You can start to build your trust in a persons opinion when what they write is similar or common to your own experience. You can also tell when a person has a mission to hurt a lady by posting false info and it raises a red flag.

BTW Paige and LIDawn,

I do look forward to speakiing with you both and meeting in the future, as the lack of money due to the stock market is killing me now. Also LI is too far for me but hope you can visit NJ occasionally? Brooklyn is ok for me.

At the present time, I have this Italian thing called 'Myfundsarlo' and I'm not Italian.

SS

[pswope]

this is off topic,but your comment that the ladies today are 10 to 100x better than 10-15 years is based on my experience wrong. Probably deserving of a seperate thread,if anyone is interested.


ps-the quality of the ladies is irrelevant to the issue of entitlement to respect. Of course,everyone is entitled to be treated with respect until they forfeit that by their conduct.

The issue is sensibilities that each respective side must bring to a coed board.

Given the nature of the subject(having sex for money),it's to be expected that there is going to be a certain degree of crudeness. By the same token,there will also be a degree of disingenous,cloying behavior aimed at either promoting business or obtaining "favors" from providers. Personally,I find that as vomitous as gratuitously vulgar or hostile posts .

Ultimately,if this community sees merit in a coed board,then a culture must evolve,which strikes a balance
between the unfettered behavior that would be acceptable on a Working Girl or John only board and one that is so diluted in the interest of civility,self promotion,and self interest advancement that it mirrors an already existing board,disdained by many.

[littleguy]

Ezrlove, “I am about to state my opinion and I think a lot of people are not going to like it.”

EZ, Is it okay if I call you by your first 2 characters ? Anyway, the operative word here is “opinion”. We should, not that we always do, but we should understand without you having to state it, that it is your OPINION. That usually doesn’t make it right nor wrong. I’m getting a bit senile, not that my memory was EVER very good to begin with but my general impression is that the normal tone of discussion here is rather tame and respectful, by both providers and hobbyists. I don’t come here all that often and I’ve read some of Val’s posts (of disappointment and saying “Goodbye”) but I didn’t see, and I probably won’t bother to look for, the ones that prompted the reaction. Maybe I've been lurking on *** too much lately.

In any case, my impression of the general atmosphere here, to this point, is one of overall honest discussion between the 2 camps. Ladies and gentlemen sometimes overreact a bit and post an angry response before they’ve thought about what the poster was really trying to say. As in other parts of our lives, that happens. We need to think before we write. First try walking in the other persons moccasins before replying to something that angers you.

“I have never read so many inconsiderate posts on a board”. You’ve GOT to be kidding. You’re on ***. I’ve seen you there. You think UG is as bad as ***. Wow !!!

TnotS,

I think you’re right to some degree. I am beginning to understand after talking to some of the ladies personally that they each have their “horror” stories of bad encounters, from guys “taking advantage” to guys not being very clean, to guys that would physically try (and sometimes, unfortunately succeed) in abusing them. As somebody already mentioned there are segments of our society that act that way all the time. I don’t think these things should ever happen to a lady but as a matter of percentages I get the feeling that these bad encounters are (at least I hope) less frequent than the percentage in the world outside of ours. I know I stated that badly but you know what I mean.

HDB, You are right on the money, as usual.

GC You may be surprised how few ladies want flowers and romance from you (us) guys. If you had your “Oak Room” you might find it a lonely place. OTOH, maybe I’d be surprised. I’ve been wrong before. I’m sure I will be again. I don’t think you guys are giving the ladies enough credit. I think you’re being condescending to them and inferring they can’t take a (mostly) thoughtful discourse with differing points of view. Most of them are MUCH tougher than you appear to give them credit for.

Saint Bart (Love that handle), You’ve GOT to be kidding. “without the present day ladies, there would be no hobby “ Give yourself (and all of us) some credit. Without US there would be no hobby either. “I don't know what it was like 10 or 15 years ago, but I have to believe the quality -beauty, intelligence, etc - of provider is 10X or 100X better today” If you DON’T KNOW, why would you assume such a thing ? I don’t care to start the thread but I’d be willing to bet there are a few guys here that might have a different opinion.

“Sure, I'd like to see every gynocological detail in every review, but it's not fair to the ladies. They have to have their own options to make the business pleasurable for themselves. So, I'd rather see less detail and more "color" to the reviews and total experience. I can read between the lines, and with the right lady I don't have to check off every aspect that I need for GFE to have a good, or even a great, time!”

While I cringe a bit at the “gynecological detail” phrasing, it’s relatively accurate anyway. On a percentage basis I believe there are far more rip-offs of hobbyists than there are of the ladies. At least that’s been my observation. Take one look at the “cash and dash” operations. Phoenix jumps immediately to mind. Right Dave ? Also, you apparently have much more “discretionary” income than many of us (clearly far more than myself) and perhaps you can afford to “write off” some bad experiences more easily than many of us. I make a pretty decent living, but still have to watch my money a bit. I’m SURE there are many gentlemen here that have to be MORE careful than I do. So should we all adhere to your standards or just go away and find an “economy johns” board .Let’s face it, while all guys are there for the same “end result(s-grin!)", most of us are also there for very specific activities also. At the hourly rate we are paying, I need as much knowledge as possible to spend my money wisely. Now don’t get me wrong. I have “taken one for the team” on a fair number of occasions. I also thoroughly read reviews and try to read between the lines also. But it’s too easy to make mistakes that way. As far as having their “own options” that falls into the YMMV caveat, which I, for one, ALWAYS remember. Just because YOU got something doesn’t mean I will. OTOH, and I’ve told you this before, If I KNOW you received a particular activity, I know it is USUALLY also available to me providing I am freshly showered and respectful to the lady, which, BTW, I ALWAYS am. Having said all of that I should also tell you that I AGREE it’s the TOTAL experience that counts. I’ve had sessions with ladies that didn’t do either of the top 2 on my personal list that had been GREAT. I’ve also had sessions with ladies that do absolutely EVERYTHING I like that have not been among my favorites. However, both those examples are EXCEPTIONS, not the rule. Which is, of course, why I want as many details as are available.

JM, “Wondering what all the fuss is (about)” Me too.

GC. “Reading between the lines” is a recipe for disaster, in anything. That’s just MY opinion, of course.
BTW, What’s a “functionalist” ? “Wholistic approach “ ???

JM, Right again.

SB, Well stated, as usual (Boy, it’s not so bad kissing the APM’s butt)

JM and TC, Will you guys try to get some sleep for God’s sake ? How about if I promise to try to actually get some work done ? Deal ?

Pswope, Well said.

SS, Also well stated. Sorry about your Italian condition and I am NOT gloating but……..

BONUSES WERE PAID TODAY. WAHOOOOOOOOOO

I’d be even happier if I hadn’t already spent it on a bike.

Having probably bored you all to tears by now, I am, your partner in the hobby,

littleguy


P.S. This should not be necessary to say, but, of course, these are only MY opinions.

P.P.S. Going to Florida next week. Can't wait to get away from this God damn weather. Dawn, I'll be seeing you as soon as I am able Darlin'.

BTW - What does ROTFLMAO mean. I know the end is Laughing My Ass Off, but what's the ROTF part ?

Note from moderator - Rolling On
The Floor [/i]

[Edited by slinkybender on 02-23-2001 at 10:49 AM]

[Slinky Bender]

JM,
No, I think it is wrong for folks here to fight to impose their own motivations on anyone else. I don't disagree that some will try to do so anyway, but often that's when you see folks unable to sway others to their POV, whne they argue not based on logic, or even "pure emotions", but simply based on their own personal motivations. It usually becomes reasonably obvious that they have an agenda ( not necessarily hidden ), which isn't really about the topic of the board.

For example, if a retired provider left the business because of some self image problems, I think it wouldn't be proper for that person to attempt to steer every conversation to an attempt to convince all other providers to do the same for the same reason.

[littleguy]

Thanks, SB.

Is ROTFLMAO better than Bwaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha ???

[Carl M]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by littleguy
[B]Ezrlove, “I am about to state my opinion and I think a lot of people are not going to like it.”

Bro if I were you I would not attend any Hobbiest Conventions in the near future- JUST MY OPINION!!

[wimpy]

I agree with EZ somewhat. Granted we all should treat each other with respect. But the exceptions will arise and my opinion is my opinion0.

IE. Paige, I have had a lot to say on the subject concerning you. I agree that you or anyone should have your preferences as to whom to see or not. But when reading your denials of "not being racist" it seems that your are. You seem to have a truly arrogant nature. Like calling your sister's mate a "brother". Enough said. And by your last post it seems you just don't get what ever person is inscensed about. I truly think we have addressed you long enough.

If you would like to further discuss e-mail me
Wimpy0704@hotmail.com

[Slinky Bender]

LG,
I guess it depends if you want to keep your ass or not....

At thh school I went too, there was a great sub shop that had T-shirts printed up with a cartoon of a guy with no ass and the caption "I ate my ass off at..."

[justme]

SB - I'm sure our disagreement is a matter of semantics more than material.

[Edited by justme on 02-23-2001 at 06:56 PM]

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by justme
SB - I'm sure our disagreement is a matter of symantics more than material.

"a matter of symantics"?

rediculous!

[littleguy]

GC,

Are you making fun of JM's sellping ???

Shud we mak fun of yurs ??

[Ezrlove]

When I say respect I am not talking about reviews or peoples opinions about the providers.

The words whore and prostitue to me just don't have any right being mentioned on these boards.

To me these ladies are escorts. They make me happy, not just physically but mentally. I can honestly say that because of these ladies my job performance is better, the relationship with my kids is better, and over all my outlook on life is better. And their is no price for that.

Do I want to marry any of these woman? no. One of the reasons why they make my life better is because I don't have to see them everyday. I usually make appointments for at least 4 hours and believe me the time spent between the sheets doesn't make or break the date. It takes two to make good whoopie.

Some people believe they are paying for sex. I pay for time spent. In order for me to enjoy the time spent with a provider I must respect her. Don't get me wrong, I love the sex but if thats all I wanted I wouldn't be scheduling 4 or more hours. And yes I have had 2 occasions when nothing happened between the sheets and I still offered to pay on both occasions. One took the money and one didn't.

[Geezy Muldoon]

Something about this thread puts me in mind of Mick Jagger mincing about the stage at Altamont with chiffon accessories while the Hells Angels beat and stabbed a young black man to death. Can't quite put my finger on it, but the strong feeling is there. Not that I am recommending that everybody grab a pool cue or a knife and lay about them for fun and profit.

[jester]

I missed the Val thing (I tend to mostly skim or skip the long posts), so I don't know why she left.

The Candide thing left me confused, as I've never looked at JAG and much of what was said apparently referred to postings on other sites. Whether she should have been "outed" or not was really the APM's decision, and it appeared to me that, after several posters who knew who she was hinted at it, she "outed" herself. Of course I may be wrong here.

The Paige thing is pretty dangerous, as sometimes no matter what you say, there are going to be people who take it other than you meant it. I'm not saying that she's right or wrong, nor am I saying that she is or isn't a racist. Basically, I'm not saying anything at all regarding that situation.

All discussion regarding Lisa should have been dropped immediately when she revealed she had lost some family members (with the exception of expressions of condolences). It's the gentlemanly (and just plain right) thing to do.


I think that most of the posters on this board, male or female, do, for the most part, show respect towards each other. There are obviously differences of opinions, and many of you obviously know each other from other boards, so there is long history there.

Regardless, there is absolutely no reason for insults or personal attacks here. This board is meant to be informative, and a place to discuss the "hobby". That is all it should be used for. If you had a bad experience with a provider, be sure to say that it was YOUR experience. YMMV and all that stuff. The only exception to this should be when the encounter was with a rip-off artist, bait-and-switch, or threatening acts.

I'm sorry, I don't normally write long posts. I've been trying to write this post for 20 minutes, and I've kinda lost my train of thought (too many late nights this week). What I try to do, and I admit that I don't always succeed, is this:

Treat everyone you meet with respect and dignity, and in the long run everybody benefits.


Of course, this is only my opinion.


Jester

[TuckernotSucker]

If it looks like it, smells like, feels likeit, guess what? It is it.
Let us not forget that a shovel is also a spade.
They know it and please, and we have to know it as well.

[frog]

So, do prostitutes exists?

[fletch]

If a prostitute falls in the forest and no one is there, does she make a sound?

[HornDogBuddah]

If a man is alone in the forest, with no woman near enough to hear him, is he still wrong?

[Ozzy]

HDB.....you get the silver just for that.

[TuckernotSucker]

Prostitutes, Hookers, Escorts All synonymes. Its nicer to call them escorts if that is what they prefer. But they know the other words too.
Solomon

[guy catelli]

i have to agree with you guys on this one.

the other night i took a date (you can probably guess who) to AnneMarie's Cafe over by the Yeast River on Affront St.

after we had downed a few, i said to her in my most sincere and straightforward tone, "you know, you're a complete wacko-nut-job." incredibly, she took offense to this!

so, i said to her, "look, you know you're a wacko-nut-job; i know you're a wacko-nut-job; you know that i know you're a wacko-nut-job, etc; what's the problem here?

then she started yelling at me that she was a lot more than someone rocking back and forth in a padded cell -- that she paints, sculpts, plays the recorder, studies tantra, and so on.

i replied that i was only trying to bring a level of honesty to our relationship. we both knew that i wouldn't be going out with her if she weren't a wacko-nut-job.

she shouted that this was sexist and offensive of me to say. i told her that i was only trying to empower her instead of watching her travel down the romantic road of ruin.

she screamed, "empower that!" as she gave a quick kick to my family ****** from under the table. having momentarily lost my breath, i croaked in a faint whisper, "i refuse to condescend to or patronize you -- you're too tough for that."

at that point, she poured the entire carafe of green tea over my head and stormed out of the cafe.

"rediculous!", i thought to myself. btw, we have these symantec misunderstandings at least once a month.

signed,

still wondering


[Edited by guy catelli on 02-25-2001 at 10:22 AM]

[One Eyed Trouser Trout]

Originally posted by Ezrlove

The words whore and prostitue to me just don't have any right being mentioned on these boards.



Ezr.....

And denial is not a river in Egypt. The words are not the issue...it's the mental and emotional image they evoke which is individual. If you put a Mercedes 3 point star ornament on a Volkswagon, do you get a better ride?

Both terms are acceptable in society. Both in churches, one in a court of law.

Deal with it dude. The 'hobby' is two participants dealing in the act of prostitution. If that bothers you, perhaps you need to examine why you're in the mind set of frequenting 'escorts' in the first place.

Just my 1/5 of a dime.

[Edited by One Eyed Trouser Trout on 02-24-2001 at 10:19 PM]

[candie]

But I have seen ladies doing same here as well. I just read now. :)

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by littleguy
GC. ... What’s a “functionalist” ? “Wholistic approach “ ???

these two labels are my latest attempt to distinguish between the two ends of the main axis of client orientation toward escorts. hopefully, these labels will not leave either side feeling that they're being derogated or that the other is unduly praised by the labels themselves.

[LIDAWN]

what is the difference between a whore and a prostitute? or a call girl or social escort for that reason..
is it the cost .. the level of education, the actual service or the ability to be seen in public and not scorned..?
xxoo dawn

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by justme
.... For me the point of these boards is not to romance women that I pay to sleep with me, but rather to gain a further understanding of why exactly it is that I persist in this behavior and what the long run effects will be. I can't possibly apologize for having a different agenda from romantics or even those looking to find the next greatest paid for lay. I'm sorry if I'm intruding on your game. Although, to me, it's a bit like using expensive bait to go fishing in a seeded pond....

let me ask these (for a change :)) neither rhetorical nor factetious questions:

1. do you intend to receive input on your issue from the escorts themselves? or,

2. do you feel that the presence of escorts just gets in the way of your version of 'honesty'?

if the first, it is obvious that people won't provide input on, or even hang around for, a discussion in what they perceive as a hostile environment.

if the second, then that may imply that you have an 'agenda' that is at odds with the responsible parties at UG.

"I'm sorry if I'm intruding on your game."

you recently clarified that you are trying to save those of us who are far older and far more experienced than you from (what you believe to be) "the {romantic} road to ruin" with escorts. do you still maintain that you regret a position that inevitably results in driving away all but a few of those that our side is here to interact with in an atmosphere of cordiality?


[Edited by guy catelli on 02-25-2001 at 10:58 AM]

[justme]

I'll take insight no matter where I can get it, regardless of gender (or age or experience, for that matter). I actually like that UG is coed as there have been a few female posters who have contributed greatly to my understanding. What I object to is intellectual dishonesty and completely irrational and incoherent replies and arguments.

I don't see myself as a savior or any other such nonsense, especially to grown men and women that are responsible for themselves. It would be a denial of their liberty for me to do so. However, I think that if I were in a room in which a few people were discussing the various merits of heroin use in regards to easing the burdens of life stress, I might be compelled (regardless of their demographics) to point out that long term heroin use is probably not a good idea.

[Geezy Muldoon]

Long term heroin use has no real effect on health. Worked fine for William Burroughs and he was a junkie until he died at 83. Led a very productive life and was busy writing up until a few days before he died. It's really the illegality of heroin that is the downside. All the trouble is created by the legions of blue haired ladies sitting on their porches around the country who control the politicians - who, by and large, were all born out of the stinking, lame, vituperative, stupid asses of these blue haired ladies and vote accordingly.

These blue haired ladies and their sons, the politicians, are the same people who bring you the laws which make prostitution illegal. Best thing for the country would be to legalize whoring and make it a respectable trade - something all young women could do in their spare time without fear of long-term rebukes. A must for resumes of women aspiring to work in service industries (e.g., advertising, law, consulting, etc.). ("It's how I learned to provide service with a smile.", she said during the interview - so I hired her.))

Drive the price down too, I'd suspect as more bodies enter the service and learn to hustle the infinite for a living.

I say legalize all narcotics and all acts of sex between consenting adults. Bring back the good old days which I knew before disappearing off that Manhattan street into an alternate dimension so long ago. When a gram of heroin cost 20 cents and a good whore could be had for $5 after a $1 dinner at Delmonicos.

Let's bring back the good old days.

[justme]

Seen enough counterexamples to yours to understand that horse ain't good for you - and I'm not just talking about the itchy skin.

[Geezy Muldoon]

Was a junkie myself for about a year circa 1971-1972. All the bad things I saw happen to my comrades in arms (e.g., overdose deaths, unexpected emergency room visits, arrests, thefts from family and strangers) were a direct cause of the illegality. Since I knew what I was doing and sold to other suburban kids too terrified to venture into Harlem and the Lower East Side, I never had these problems.

No overdoses on my route. Always told my customers what I was selling was much stronger than it really was. Lying through my teeth of course like any old madam to get more money for my wares, but I am quite sure the parents of my customers would thank me in hindsight for preventing early funerals even though they were out a television or two, and lost the family silver for my benefit. I am now, of course, a respectable citizen.

As a paradigm of human relationships and appetities, I see distinct parellels between heroin and commercial sex. Though I would say that prostitutes are just as much junkies in this situation as they are pushers. Control over access to the infinite (i.e., orgasm) being the shared common purpose of both prostitutes and johns. Rerunning the video tape of the moment of creation and coming to terms over the what, when and how the tape is run. Rather more about controlling the remote than anything else. Very little to do with what sex is in and of itself.

[Ezrlove]

[but I am quite sure the parents of my customers would thank me in hindsight for preventing early funerals]




They would thank you for selling their kids heroin?

[Edited by ezrlove on 02-26-2001 at 04:00 PM]

[justme]

Wasn't talking about the medical effects. Heroin has this nasty tendency of making its users extremely obsessive about heroin. What pains me is when I see vibrant, exciting, interesting people become empty shells rubbing themselves on the carpet.

For the record, I've also noted some of the similarities between drugs and prostitution.

[justme]

http://209.236.222.188/JAG/discus/messages/23/756.html?SaturdayAugust1220000933am#POST3019

[Geezy Muldoon]

EL:

I was, of course, being facetious.


justme:

Think complete legalization of all narcotics (like prostitution) would eliminate the ill effects you have witnessed. During my trips into New York City to score, I always found time to do interesting things (e.g. go to clubs, concerts, museums, art galleries, etc.). Drugs were just part of the bohemian lifestyle I was trying to live to leave 6 years of being an altar boy behind me. Was no more obsessed about heroin than I was with wanting to be just like Keith Richards and my black leather jacket. Part of the package deal. Ate a 100 hits of acid once for the same purpose. To see if I could go further and to ascertain the limits of experience. Not one flashback ever. Never felt the urge to jump along with Art Linkletter's daughter. And my kids are normal. And I did go further.

[SkellyChamp]

Judge

While I usually agree with you on most things, here and elsewhere we post under different guise, I think you are off base here.

The legalization of prostitution (does this make me politically incorrect) and the legalization of narcotics are not comparable at all. Your experiences with H, I think, (I would venture to say I know because I beleive my experiences here at least rival yours) make you the exception rather than the rule. For you it might have been the path to insitutions, jail and death but for many many it is. I beleive that most who go down that path don't have their shit together as you did. And who's to say what problems WBR had or didn't have. It's nmot necessarily a case of long-term use as much as it is, use to misuse to abuse.

But these are I think discussions for other boards.

[SkellyChamp]

And I think some people here are getting too hung up on the word prostitute.

The "world's oldest profession" is prostitution. People who practice it are prostitutes. This is what it is. I am a user of prostitutes. If you don't like the use of the word I suggest you direct your energies to PONY (Prostitutes of New York), the Prostitutes' Education Network and the San Francisco Task Force on Prostitution (which includes representatives from prostitute organizations) just to name a few. For that matter check out the organization known as HIRE - Hooking is Real Employment and complain to them about the word hookers.

Now if you feel more comfortable using "provider" , "escort", "sex worker" God Bless you, but don't start trying to make an issue over the word prostitute or prostitution. Can people use it as an insult or derogatory word - sure, but my experience is that is in the manner and tone in which they use it much like someone might say "He's and Italian" or "He's a Jew" (both of which I am) as an insult because they say it in a nasty and derogatory fashion. By themselves they are just statments of fact. But there is nothing wrong with prostitute. It is not disrespectful. God save us from the "politically correct."

And in my lexicon "whore" and "slut" have nothing to do with prostitution and are almost exclusively used and meant to be used in a derogatory and disrespectful manner.

But, of course, this is just the opinion of one person who reads and posts on Board concerning prostitution and who uses, proudly so, prostitutes.

[justme]

Ditto SkellyChamp?

[frog]

jm -- why the question mark?

[frog]

There are some negative connotations associated being a lawyer. For some people, not quite as negative as being a prostitute, but negative nevertheless. Do we use the word "lawyer" as an insult?

[Geezy Muldoon]

SK:

Agreed. A provider is just a prostitute whose feelings might be hurt if the more accurate term is used, whereas a whore is a prostitute whose been rather more unpleasant than is normally customary. Slut, on the other hand, is the kind of girl who gives it away for free underneath the football bleachers on fall nights. Wife is what gets you through the night.

[jester]

I've been trying to recall a situation where the word "prostitute" was used as an insult. In the movies and tv shows that I've seen, if one person wants to insult a woman, the term used is "whore", or in old movies, "harlot". Speaking of someone in the third person, "hooker" is also commonly used. I don't think I can recall anyone in any show saying "You prostitute!".

It's a word found in the dictionary describing an occupation.

However, if a lady objects to being called something, why call her that? Unless you're deliberately trying to annoy her, or start a fight.

I have nothing but respect for the ladies, and if it will make them happy for me to refer to them as a provider or escort, then that's how I will refer to them.


Just my nickel. (inflation, you know)


Jester

[Ezrlove]

It's a word found in the dictionary describing an occupation.


I do appreciate all of the responses to this post. This will be my final statement in regards to this post.

I have read many of provider web sights and many posts made by provider on this board and others and I have never once read a provider call themself a prostitute,hooker,or whore.

There are politically correct ways of saying things:

African American instead of black
Asian instead of Oriental
Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas

They are called politically correct terms because one may get offended if you use the incorrect term. Until you walk in the shoes of these provides, please do not justify what you can call them.

When I read a post from a provider calling herself a whore,prostitute or hooker than I will refer to her in that matter. I do believe that one of the reasons why Val left this board is because she did not like those particular terms and she stated it. Most of the MEN on this board are quick to decide what is the proper term for a provider. Well what about provider or escort. That is what the ladies use on their own web sights.

Here is another term for you guys.

Nigger

1. It is in the dictionary
2. My race uses it all the time without being insulted
3. If any other race uses it, they are looked down upon

I can call another African American a nigger, let me see you justify it.

My final $.02

[SkellyChamp]

Some would say more negative than prostitute

[Ozzy]

EZ is on the right track, and recently i discussed this same issue, but the better word for comparison would be.........."negro"

nigger is a little worse than whore or prostitute.

[justme]

frog - the question mark was because I felt it strange dittoing a much better phrasing of something I already said.

I think nigger would be more analogous to whore, while the difference between prostitute and providor is more akin to that of black and African American (which in most conversation I use interchangeably, but in some conexts I show a preference for the latter)

[frog]

We are, in a sense, on the inside. We, the users of ASPs.

[HornDogBuddah]

Frog, re: your previous post about using lawyer in a pejorative way: "What did you expect from a goddamn lawyer?"

[Edited by HornDogBuddah on 02-27-2001 at 08:08 AM]

[frog]

fucking ambulance chasers!

[SkellyChamp]

Political correctness is quite frankly a bunch of crap.

Its not the words that are the problem it's the way we use them and the tone in which we use them.

And before African American was the politically correct term it was black and before that it was Negro. They are merely descriptive. Words like Nigger and Spade were used as weapons to hurt or characterize in an inappropriate manner. And even then not always. I had many (actually most) "African American" friends who I could call nigger and worse, but they were my friends. Much as they could call me the Guinea or the Jew or the white honky Eye-talian Jew. But we were using it in friendly playful ways.

When I go see a provider/prostitute/call girl, I call her none of those things. She tells me her name that's what I call her. I don't say "Hello Ms. Prostitute." But when I am discussing or writing about what as him who I will not name calls "this thing of ours" (spitting out the bad taste in my mouth) I have no qualm about calling it prostitution. That is what it is. I don't use whore or slut because that is not what I am talking about. To me that does not necessarily have anything to do with this "thing." Being a whore or a slut has nothing to do with prostitution. But one who practices the profession of prostitution, which is the selling of sex for money, is a prostitute. ANd she may be a whore or a slut, but so can the girl sitting next to me on the train ride home who left her job as a lawyer, secretary or whatever. Actually, she is more likely in my opinion to be one than is a prostitute.

And as I said earlier, for those who have problem with the word prostitute you better call PONY and tell them to change the name of their organization. And the San Fransisco Task Force on Prostitution.

THis bullshit on political correctness not only has everyone walking around on eggshells about the words we use it also sets up that segment of the population who espouse it as some type of English language censors. And these are the same people who rail about censorship and the sanctity of the freedom of the press.

We'd be better served learning to treat people AS people rather than get hung up over every word. If we could learn to do that............

[Geezy Muldoon]

Further to my 2-26-01 post at 3:36 PM, coolest thing to do is to wear dark sunglasses, focus on what sex really is, pay the prostitute and watch her turn into a giant blue centipede when you don't let her have a taste. Moment of creation completely inside at that point as you achieve the rare state of being inscrutable. Last words before fading into alternate dimension, Manhattan streetcorner from which I disappeared August 6, 1930.

[Edited by Judge Crater on 03-09-2001 at 05:19 PM]

[Geezy Muldoon]

"J'aime ces types vicieux qu'ici montrent la bite."
(I like the vicicious types who show the prick here.)

Last words of Mary Magdalen on Easter Morning skywritten over New York London Paris Berlin Budapest Moscow Bombay Peking Tokyo Sydney Pretoria Mexico City skies.

[Edited by Judge Crater on 03-12-2001 at 10:07 AM]