Help the moderator...

[Slinky Bender]

If there were someone on the board pretending to be a woman, but I had reason to believe that they were actually a man, what action should I take ?

[Ozzy]

cut off his nuts so at least he wouldn't be misleading us?

[frog]

At once, stop with the payments-in-kind -- cash only.

[guy catelli]

this is a tough one.

if this were some kind of chat/cybersex context, a person of one gender trying to pass as the other would constitute seriously 'fucking with people's heads'.

but, in the context here, it's really just 'messin' with people's heads'. sort of like Klinger in MASH. although Klinger wasn't actually trying to fool anyone, it seems the effect here is similar -- a basically harmless put-on.

i've gone back and forth on this in my mind. but, on balance, i think you should contact the person via email, and give him/her the opportunity to convince you he/she's female -- via telephone call, or whatever else you deem satisfactory. if he/she refuses (a legitimate option even assuming the person is male), then you kinda sorta owe it to us, to the extent that this is a community of shared trust, to tell us all who you suspect.

maybe.

[Tankcommander]

You know what I mean... who is this guy or girl?

[SS]

Slink,
This is a tough one. Hmmm...

Honestly, I would consider making everyone aware of whom this person is?

On the other hand, I don't know what satisfaction a person would get from doing this because this is an open board for us guys as well as the ladies. So maybe, just let it go for now?

[wimpy]

It woul seem dumb for anyone to be someone else on this open board. I say call them on the carpet for this. And if the are who they say we appologize. If not read them the riot act and lets move on.

[MrNY]

not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you...

[Othello]

Since this is a fairly "open" forum, I would be curious as to what his/her motivation would be for engaging in such a facade. Whatever " mind games" this person is seeking to pursue would have a fairly limited impact since I don't really believe that anyone is pouring out their "carnal soul" on this board. We don't talk about our sexual prowess (minimal) or our sexual shortcomings (many). It seems to be just a place where guys come to hang out. Occasionally, a few babes will stop by to "spice" things up. In this instance, a "he" disgused as a "she" is on the premises. It only matters if one of us leaves the bar with "it".

What leads you to believe that the "she" is a "he"?

[guy catelli]

there's a whole 'movement', part of the 'agenda' of which is to demonstrate that 'gender' is a purely 'cultural construct'.

what may be taking place here becomes anecdotal grist for that mill, along with the not insubstantial corollary pleasure such people derive from 'getting over'.

[HornDogBuddah]

SB: how long have you have you been suspicious of this person's true gender before you brought the matter to our attention? (If longer than a minute or so, what issues were you grappling with before you took keyboard in hand?)

Outing this person in public, cutting off access to UG, etc., all raise issues about ethics, normative behaviors, expectancies, blah blah. Too much seriousness for a "free" internet board. Will UG members expect SB to speak with every member, new as well as established, to verify gender? (As if that conversation couldn't be fiddled.) I think not.

On the other hand, maybe SB should out the person so UG members could, should they so choose, innundate the offender with spam emails. It might be entertaining for the next six minutes or so.

[Slinky Bender]

HDB,
All the issues are "tough" which is why I asked for help. To some extent, if it looked like no one on the board cared, then I wouldn't spend a lot of time worrying about it myself.

"It might be entertaining for the next six minutes or so"

That's part of he issue. It would be pointless for that to be the sole outcome. OTOH, if a large portion of the membership really cares about such a thing, and I had certain knowledge and said nothing, well, that might be a problem too, no ? As far as the issue of finding out "the truth" about each and every member, I think there's a big difference between not taking extraordinary measures to prevent something and ignoring that same thing in the face of evidence of it occurring. It's one thing not to search every car going through the toll booth, and another to ignore a leg sticking out of a trunk.

[HornDogBuddah]

You're right, of course. Once something appears on your radar screen, it's difficult to ignore it. But deciding whether to do something about it based upon the results of polling your audience seems to me to be an exercise in futility. Many people will not give this the serious attention you would like -- you're concerned with the integrity, stability, and long-term success of this board, while most members are here for the short run only. It is unlikely that the posters/responders will shed any light on how you should solve this "problem" because your concerns are not theirs.

You are the keeper of the board -- why don't you suggest what you think you should do and let us take pot shots at it? If no one blasts a hole in it, go for it. I think your membership here will respond to a proposed action better than they will to an open question.

Just my $0.02.

[Slinky Bender]

You mean I can't just try to take the easy way out ? You're no fun.

[Phantom]

Ask, NO TELL this person to cease and desist posting as a person of the opposite gender. If after this warning it continues, OUT THEM!!

Give them a chance to stop. If they do, let it die. If they don't expose the person for what they are, a fraud. At that point they would have brought it on themselves.

[guy catelli]

{pardon my mind-fart.}

[Edited by guy catelli on 02-20-2001 at 06:01 PM]

[K.S.]

I really am female.

I'd say that this board needs as many warm bodies as it can get.

[pswope]

SB
there is so much illusion and delusion in this space,that unless Yentl is somehow actively causing harm by his/her misrep,I say....who cares.

[HornDogBuddah]

KS: warm bodies but no "rules" or agreed norms of behavior? How is dissing someone verbally, or using offensive terminology that makes her see red, any different from pretending you are something you are not and, in the course of that deception, stimulating discussion/reaction/discourse that would not have occurred had your deception been unveiled? The maintenance of that veil is another form of dissing all of us, no?

[Edited by HornDogBuddah on 02-20-2001 at 06:00 PM]

[K.S.]

It just so happens that I have personal experience in this very thing, as I was thrown off the Stanfurd hoops board for pretending to be a Cardinal. (It sure was fun, though).

I suppose there's a difference between obviously being offensive to people - trying to piss them off (as I did to the 'furd turds) and just having some harmless fun.

Who cares? Really!

As for the language debate - if someone is offended by the goddam facts of life, they need to stay home. I get offended when I read JAG and hear all manner of upsetting vitriol, but that's kinda my fault for reading it, ain't it?

[guy catelli]

if this board is about 'accurate information' generally, and, in part, how clients and escorts 'really' feel about one another, i think it is a minimal requirement that posters truthfully identify their 'gender-cr****tials' for speaking to one side or the other.

[MrNY]

A1N

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by MrNY
A1N

you mean you're not ultraorthodox?

as for A1N, i had many phone conversations with her -- she was (is) all woman.

[jmcurry]

I agree with Phantom. You cannot tolerate deception of that kind. But, rather than outing the individual, simply delete his or her posts and disallow all new ones. If it continues subsequently, then expose the person.

[guy catelli]

I really am female.

i doubt any of us have ever 'wondered' if you're "really female", KS. a lot of us like to have our minds messed with by a real woman. (as if you didn't already know ;).)

I'd say that this board needs as many warm bodies as it can get.

nice try. but, no board needs more self-misrepresentation.

[Ozzy]

KS,

you made a fan out of me...;)

[Candide]

SB - Have you e-mailed the person and asked them? I can think of a particular scenario where it may seem that a woman is a man pretending to be a woman.

And, of course, I must add here, I'm a woman, born and raised, no lying.

So why or how do you think some one is a poser, eh? :)

[Slinky Bender]

Because when that person first signed on to UG, they used the email of someone who is a regular JAG poster ( not "close to", but letter for letter exact ). they also chose a handle which, while some might think is a woman's name, is actually more common as a man's name. When they first started posting, their posts were somewhat sexually ambigous, like "PAT" on SNL. Then, just before they seemed the "come out" as a woman, they changed their email address for UG contact. then, they seem to be going out of their way to state ( over and over again, even where the question has not been asked ) that they are a woman.

Any idea who I might be talking about ?

[Phantom]

:rolleyes: :confused: :p

Ozzy?

[Ozzy]

:p

[Edited by Ozzy on 02-22-2001 at 09:42 PM]

[Candide]

------

[Edited by Candide on 02-20-2001 at 11:41 PM]

[Ozzy]

WAFH!!!!!

[Candide]

---------

[Edited by Candide on 02-20-2001 at 11:41 PM]

[Candide]

---------

[Edited by Candide on 02-20-2001 at 11:42 PM]

[Candide]

--------------

[Edited by Candide on 02-20-2001 at 11:42 PM]

[Ozzy]

:mad:


[Edited by Ozzy on 02-22-2001 at 09:44 PM]

[Ozzy]

:mad:


[Edited by Ozzy on 02-22-2001 at 09:44 PM]

[Ozzy]

oh....WAFH = what a fucking hypocrite

[Candide]

----------

[Edited by Candide on 02-20-2001 at 11:43 PM]

[Ozzy]

;) YOUR WELCOME

[Edited by Ozzy on 02-20-2001 at 08:49 PM]

[Candide]

--------

[Edited by Candide on 02-20-2001 at 11:44 PM]

[Candide]

-----------

[Edited by Candide on 02-20-2001 at 11:44 PM]

[Candide]

------------

[Edited by Candide on 02-20-2001 at 11:45 PM]

[Ozzy]

:mad:

[Edited by Ozzy on 02-22-2001 at 09:46 PM]

[guy catelli]

Candide: if you're the "Candide" that was posting on *** since more than a year ago, then questions about your real gender have been floating around for a long time. and, if so, this can't be laid at the door of SB or anyone else on this board.

i didn't follow your posts closely on ***, but i've read the ones you've posted here. and, as someone who is a pretty close reader, i've got to say that there's a certain 'vagueness' in the air of much of your posting. it's kind of like adjusting the focus on a telephoto lens -- the reader thinks the picture is clear, and suddenly everything's out of focus again.

it's not like Ozzy or Chloe, who just fire words wildly into the air to avoid being pinned down as to their exact meaning. your writing is very clear; it's the person who's writing them who is constantly going in and out of focus for the reader.

that's not SB's fault, or anyone else's on this or any other board.

sorry to slap you around this way; but i think we both liked it. now dry your tears and try pull yourself together, ok ;).

[fishfry]

Most Esteemed SlinkMeister,

Remember the old New Yorker cartoon? "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog."

I agree that it's tacky for some middle-aged guy to be getting his thrills by pretending to be a hot young hardbodied hooker. But isn't that what the Net is all about? Go onto IRC or Aim Instant Messager or half the prostitution boards out there and you see it going on.

Reader beware. Take everything on these boards with a grain of salt. If you start policing the board for truth and honesty, where would you stop? Suppose I write that I saw so-and-so and had three cups of uncovered coffee and she's a great gal and you should "treat her right." So maybe that's true, or maybe she wrote it herself. I agree with you in spirit that I wish everything on the Net were true, but it ain't, so just voice your suspicions in print and let the person defend themselves, but in the end you'll never know what's true and what's bullshit.

Take me for example. I could be an average-looking horny middle-aged white guy with a history of paying prostitutes for sex. Or not. Who gives a shit? If people are interested in what I say they'll read me. If not, they won't.

fishfry999@hotmail.com

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by Candide/Infobooth/Candie day
No one gets me mad like you do

DAMN

what is it with you?!

I'm sorry for going wild on you

But you know what you do.




you've just quoted every girlfriend i've ever had.

perhaps we dated sometime.

[Edited by Ozzy on 02-22-2001 at 09:47 PM]

[Ozzy]

:mad:

[Edited by Ozzy on 02-22-2001 at 09:47 PM]

[MrNY]

by the way, mazel tov on your Gold !!!

[MrNY]

how current is your "is" ?

[Candide]

----------

[Edited by Candide on 02-20-2001 at 11:46 PM]

[frog]

oz, drop it.

[Candide]

-------------

[Edited by Candide on 02-20-2001 at 11:46 PM]

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by MrNY
how current is your "is" ?

she had an F2M operation?

[Candide]

-----

[Edited by Candide on 02-20-2001 at 11:47 PM]

[frog]

gc, for someone who claims to be sensitive, you are not doing a very good job right now.

[frog]

Sorry Candide, I just don't want this thread to blow up, so it does concern me.

[Edited by frog on 02-20-2001 at 09:55 PM]

[Candide]

----

[Edited by Candide on 02-20-2001 at 11:48 PM]

[Candide]

------

[Edited by Candide on 02-20-2001 at 11:49 PM]

[Candide]

-----------

[Edited by Candide on 02-20-2001 at 11:50 PM]

[Ozzy]

:mad:

[Edited by Ozzy on 02-22-2001 at 09:48 PM]

[frog]

Candide, I am no one's keeper but do like to keep my friends from jumping off bridges. He's a good guy at heart.

[Slinky Bender]

"Slinky and Ozzy did that to me cause I hurt Ozzy's feelings"

If we were in court, I'd object on the grounds "arguing facts not in evidence". I won't say why Ozzy did anything, that's for him to know. I wouldn't presume, especially without having a conversation with him, and without the slightest evidence except for my wanting to believe it, that he had any particular motives ( although in this particular case, it appears you two have enough history that one could use "revenge" as a motive for just about any behaviour set, but what does that have to do with me ? ).

It is interesting that you think you have any clue as to my motivations. The only thing that anyone can assume is that I was concerned that someone who had presented themselves as a male ( for a good long time ) elsewhere was presenting themesleves as a female on my board. And considering that you initially denied to me that you were doing such, I think my concerns are still justified. As previously stated in this thread, I was concerned that I might have information which members of the board fealt would be relevant, and while some don't seem to care too much, others apparently do. Frankly, I am offended that you choose to portray me as Ozzie's henchman in some evil plot against you. If you two want to knock eachother out, to some extent that's your business. But this board is MY business, and I feel I have every right to question things here which do not appear to be on the level. And someone posting on my board as a female who has been posting on another board for quite a while as a male fits that bill.

[frog]

thanks sb.

[Candide]

Ok Guys,

Then I won't post here anymore, nor will I post anywhere as anyone. Good luck with your board Slinky.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Candide
Excuse me Guy - but if I'm out of focus it's cause you aren't LISTENING TO ME...just like a man too!

My name is Candi and you've refered to what I wrote on the JAG non member board.

i posted numerous derogatory messages about jag, inspired by Candi's postings on their nonmember board. Candi's postings were razor sharp in logical coherence.

the Candide postings here are 'all over the place'. i'm not saying you're not both the same person; i'm saying that SB can hardly be blamed for wondering what the f*ck is going on! you've engaged in deception about your true identity, and now you blame SB for figuring out the deception you've perpetrated on him!.

sounds like a 'real woman' to me ;).

now, as far as the 'in- and out-of-focus' characterization goes, consider the following: "... my sexual experience up until I was 35 was just about nil - I was a book worm, an intellectual and afraid of men - then I found out guys liked my mouth - it took a while to find out why. Then one guy on AOL offered to pay me for it and that was it - it took two years for me to go full circle and quit - and thanks to JAG I quit."

i'm sorry, i can't go on ... i'm losing it....

[Ozzy]

:mad:

[Edited by Ozzy on 02-22-2001 at 09:49 PM]

[frog]

Candide, see, I do not wish you to leave, really. Which is why I asked oz to stop temporarily.

[Rust]

Candide/Info-

I had to come out of lurking to say that you had me completely fooled for a long time on JAG. Its a rather humbling experience discovering you've been deceived for so long.

Anyways, I don't think Slinky is asking you to not post here. If anything, he was trying to protect the integrity of this board and in the process unearthed your little secret. Its obvious that you're an intelligent poster, and your perspective in your true persona is valued here. You seem to think that all the attention you're getting here is animosity towards you, when in actuality it is just the result of the shock that everyone is now suddenly experiencing.

Rust

[fletch]

No, frog. I am your father.

[Ozzy]

frog is luke?

[Candide]

Rust, everyone,

I did not mean to fool anyone - I merely needed to talk to you all - you involved me in spite of myself - that is because you are all so engaging. I am sorry if I have upset anyone. I won't post here or anywhere any more nor will I read from the boards anymore. I will miss you. My apologies to JAG and to UG for doing what I did - it was wrong.

You don't have to say nice things to me Ozzy, I am not in pitiful shape (no reference to Mr. Pitiful, who I admire greatly) but merely honest and I know when I don't belong. - C

P.S. Guy, get some rest or lay off the sauce!

[Slinky Bender]

Lest anyone think that Candide is being chased off the board by "management", I have said nothing which should indicate to anyone that she is being "banned" from here. As I have said before all ( well, almost all ) are welcome here as long as they come "with pure intentions".

Candide,
If anyone has said you "need to go", I haven't seen it, or I'm being thick headed and not recognizing it. I think I think I have already stated what my concerns were. If you want to stay, that's fine ( just don't tell us tomorrow that you're really a guy :D ).

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Candide:
....I did not mean to fool anyone

but, Candide, you obviously did "mean to fool (every)one."

- I merely needed to talk to you all

nods

- you involved me in spite of myself

?

- that is because you are all so engaging.

hmmm ;)

I am sorry if I have upset anyone.

nods

I won't post here or anywhere any more nor will I read from the boards anymore.

that may be true of 'Candide'; but what about the rest of the cast of A Night at the Opera?

I will miss you.

yes; but look on the bright side, Candide: your next identity can look forward to re-befriending all of us "engaging" men here and at jag ;).

My apologies to JAG and to UG for doing what I did - it was wrong.

i can't speak for jag, nor anyone else at UG; but, i know that i've enjoyed your current incarnation's brief visit here, Candide. and, you've certainly done wonders for the rate at which new posts have been coming in ;).

"... Mr. Pitiful, who I admire greatly"

Candide, the man tries very hard to do the right thing.

"...but merely honest and I know when I don't belong."

now that you're no longer confusing us to distraction, you're leaving because you "don't belong"? i take it you "don't belong" on jag, pretending to be a client. and, it really wasn't very nice to attack the APM's motives for reasonably responding to the confusing data you were generating.

but, Ozzy seems to like you, as i'm sure the rest of us do. so, i don't see in what way you "don't belong" here.

P.S. Guy, get some rest or lay off the sauce!

Candide, i'm sober as a judge; but, i admit that you are keeping me up tonight ;).

[frog]

Originally posted by fletch
No, frog. I am your father.

poppa fletch?

oz, you never saw my bionic appendage?

[Rust]

Candide-

You've done nothing wrong here. So refraining from posting here isn't necessary. The only people that you've deceived are those on JAG. Not only were you a provider on JAG, but you were a provider who posted as a client.

I'm not sure that deleting all your posts on here will make anything go away. Obviously you enjoy posting on these boards, and you'll probably continue to do so with alternate names. Instead of running and hiding again, wouldn't it be better to just be who you really are for once? I for one have enjoyed your posts, and would probably enjoy them much more knowing who you are now. No one here is angry with you, they are all shocked. Im not going to beg you to stay, but this board would benefit from you posting here.

Rust

[K.S.]

I missed all the excitement. But, if Candide is indeed a female (and apparently she is) then I think this entire thread was a stupid idea.

I gather she infiltrated JAG and posted? Did she do any actual harm? Personally, I can't resist a challenge, which is why *I* did it. Have I done any actual harm? I dunno, maybe.

Ozzy, I don't know what you did, but references to a providers age show a lack of manners and maturity. At least, I think that you meant that comment about her age as some sort of justification? I don't know if that's what you actually did, though - because all the good stuff seems to have been deleted.

[Ozzy]

KS,
for you....i removed the age refrence, only because i respect your honesty in admitting your access to jag. as i said someplace here earlier....you've made a fan of me.




[Edited by Ozzy on 02-21-2001 at 05:27 PM]

[OCharley]

I am generally a lurker on JAG and am new on this Board. But having seen and read the most recent posting by Candi - de (pronounced Day) I can see that this medium is by its very nature limiting. What one person writes, another quickly mis-interprets, twists, or takes to the logical extreme.

I must say that Ms. Day seems to be a bit extreme in this instance. I echo the poster who wrote that not only has there been no outcry to bannish Ms. Day to "Bogie "Land" for her slight indescretions, but there is generaly a feeling that she should stay and continue to contribute. She should remain here where she obviously enjoys being heard.

Its just my opinion. I have never met her nor will I most likely, but one more voice of reason is always better in a community of voices. Or is that vices.

[K.S.]

I kind of remember the incident you're talking about. And, I understand now what you meant about the age thing!

I actually believe JAG is a necessary thing, and that guys should be able to talk semi-privately. I would feel kind of bad about revealing information I read there to interested parties. I suppose, if someone was plotting to kill a provider or something like that, there would be a LOT of JAGsters who'd warn her. What I'm saying is, there's nothing there that is really worth sharing, but I wouldn't go on *** and say "Oh, you're kissing her butt HERE but on JAG you said she's a withered old hag."

That sort of thing.

I ought not to post after drinking a cup of coffee.

[HornDogBuddah]

Oh no, not the euphamistic cuppa coffee? (sorry, I couldn't help myself.)

[fishfry]

http://test3.thespark.com/gendertest/

It's a gender test -- guaranteed accurate.

[frog]

fishfry, but that test assumes that the test taker is honest. I was 88% female, whatever that means.

[Edited by frog on 02-21-2001 at 05:45 PM]

[fletch]

No, frog, I am not your father.

[MrNY]

:)

[Thorn]

Candie,

I won't think you would have to leave here. This, frankly is exactly where you belong.

JAG, however, that is a different story. However, this isn't the place to discuss that.

Frankly, I've always thought fairly well of "Infobooth". I have to admit you had me fooled. I don't fool easy.

As for Candie, I have to tell you honestly that before she/you disappeared as a provider I had serious intent of seeing you. Why? Because the most important thing to me in a provider is someone you can connect to a bit. Someone who doesn't wrap herself entirely in a ball and hide herself from you. You struck me as someone, from the discriptions given, that was untainted by the business and hadn't gone hard inside. Thus, still able to relate to a client as a person, instead of just the next appointment.

Whether you decide to stay or go, I wish you well.

[Candide]

Thank you Thorn, but you should call me Candi and not Candie, cause Miss *Candie* of N.J. and her admirers will get confused...see...I have respect for Candie of N.J. and think she has a right to the protection of her name.

If you had requested to see me, undoubtedly you would have gotten fed up with my constant warning about my appearance. Other women perform an I.D. check which you guys dont like. My thing was appearance check (mine) - cause the criticism hurt me bad - and I don't think that is too hard to understand. WHen I started I felt pretty - two years later I felt worse than a dog... I guess I wasn't tough enough and I'm glad I'm not and never will be. And I promised myself I'd stick to my reading schedule. (I'm reading "Nemesis" the second volume of Kershaw's great bio of Hitler and the analysis of *his* Germany - it doesn't touch this place and you guys (and JAG too :( for fun and good times but it's pretty interesting reading :) night all

[Edited by Candide on 02-21-2001 at 07:16 PM]

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by fishfry
http://test3.thespark.com/gendertest/
It's a gender test -- guaranteed accurate.

guaranteed, Candide would score 100%. the question, though, is what would InfoBooth score?

the question i thought most interesting, though, is: who are the 28% of guys who said they would chose name "The Slot Machine" if they became a provider?

MALE FEMALE
"Black Jack" 72% 68%
"The Slot Machine" 28% 32%

[robnotbob]

That settles it, I am definitely a woman. (Has MrNY taken this test? We can settle the debate once and for all)

[MrNY]

Now, the oral exam.......

[littleguy]

Candi,

Can't hardly believe I saying this but I agree 100% with Rust.

Don't go anywhere. Points of view from all angles can only help all concerned.

OCharley,

Is that really you ? I've heard many good things about you. How ya doin' ?????

Ozzy,

You didn't follow up your last e-mail or my response.
What's up, brother ?

[OCharley]

It surely is me. I am fairly confident that you have heard of someone with my name, but I am equally sure it was not me. As the apostile (sp) said, "you must be thinking of someone else." or something to that effect.

[GenrsMale]

Originally posted by OCharley
It surely is me. I am fairly confident that you have heard of someone with my name, but I am equally sure it was not me. As the apostile (sp) said, "you must be thinking of someone else." or something to that effect.



But are you the Famous Charley of OhCharley that was in our fair city a month ago???????

[Lucifer]

It's a different charley. You're thinking of OHcharley from Ohio.

[littleguy]

You ARE right. That's who I am thinking about......and thinking about and thinking about and thinking about........................................

[GenrsMale]

I just saw posted on *** that she will be here next week