Clubs where you've gotten VHM.

[brykster]

i think this could be an interesting to know which clubs you've been able to get at least a handjob. also, feel free to post clubs where you've struck out. in order for it to be a strikeout, you must have gotten a dance and either inquired about extras or made clear overtures to that effect (eg. guiding her hand to you lap) and were completely denied or you just got the vibe from the room that it was not a possiblilty and left without even getting a dance (ie. big burly bouncer camped out right next to the LD area.). let's make no reference to when this happened so we don't inadvertently "damage" any club's rep. i'll go first:

Rah Rah's (Orange)
B.U. (Irvington)
5th Ave. (P-Town)
Cabaret. (P-Town)
Guy's. (P-Town)
Dr. Cave. (P-Town)
Tropicana (P-Town)
Marcet Cafe. (P-Town)
Show Place. (Dover)
Mickey Dee's. (P-Town)
Sunrise. (P-Town)
The Body Shop (Yonkers) (RIP).
City Lights (Yonkers) (nearly 10 years ago).
Mister G's Mount Vernon) (RIP)
Al's Wedge (the Point)
El Coche (the Point)
Riverhead (L.I.C.)
Pancho's. (B-Port) (RIP)
Teddie's . (B-Port)
Tombstone. (B-Port)
Harry O's. (Stamford)
Hideaway. (Stamford)

maybe some more; but i can't think of any right now.

Strikeouts:
Wild, Wild West. (Queens)
Gallagher's. (Queens)
Sue's Rendevous. (Mount Vernon)
Cassanova's Gold. (New Rochelle) (RIP)
Lace. (Rockland)
Stiletto. (Rockland)
Scores. (NYC).
Sin City. (Bronx)
Mermaids. (Norwalk)
Hurrah's. (P-Town)
Ragtime. (p-Town)
Beamers. (Stamford)

[justlooking]

Every club in Manhattan that has private VIP rooms.

But personally, I don't consider hand jobs Very High Mileage.

[brykster]

Every club in Manhattan that has private VIP rooms.

But personally, I don't consider hand jobs Very High Mileage.

granted; but i'm being liberal. are there clubs in NYC without VIP rooms?

[seeker6591]

http://utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28462

[Slimmy]

Brykster, since I do live in the town that Ragtime is in, it is called West Paterson. It isn't in P-town so you say. Big difference. Sorry for the interruption!

[Slinky Bender]

it's ok. WWW isn't in Queens, either. ;)

[brykster]

it's ok. WWW isn't in Queens, either. ;)

oh yeah, Brooklyn, sorry. didn't they change the name recently?

good point Slimmy, good point.

as username used to like to point out, i am exceedingly geographically challenged...it goes with the shitty driving.

[justlooking]

granted; but i'm being liberal. are there clubs in NYC without VIP rooms?

There are clubs that have VIP Rooms, but not private ones. The Flashdancers clubs for example. In those, the VIP Room is just a room off to the side where everyone doing VIPs sits communally, at contiguous tables.

I'm talking about clubs where the VIP Rooms are private: you, the girl, four walls, and a closed door. (And usually a camera, but things can be done about that.)

[brykster]

In those, the VIP Room is just a room off to the side where everyone doing VIPs sits communally, at contiguous tables.

what the hell is the point of that?

[kerpal68]

Not to put an end to a great post but is this really the smartest thing to do? I mean sure most of these clubs are no secret but putting them out there on a big list doesn't make it anymore difficult to have them visited.

Anyways since they are closed I will add my .02, I am surprised you struck out at Hurrah's, by far the easiest place I have been to when it came to high mileage. To a point where a friend and I even joke around that Hurrah's ruined the strip club experience. More then once I didn't even sit down to take off my jacket and I could have left a happy man. :)

[ratman]

i got head upstairs at the batcave, she went under the table

[Gavvy Cravath]

Dumbartons II (LIC) and, unfortunately, (R.I.P)
Nickel's (Woodside) and, unfortuantely, (R.I.P)
Wiley's (East Elmhurst) and, unfortunately, (R.I.P)

Man, that is sad...

Gavy

[aceofclubs26]

Great Success:

Doc Caves (P-town)
Cabaret (P-town)
5th Ave (P-town)
Marcet Cafe (P-town)
Guy's (P-town)
Hitching Post (P-town)
Heartbreakers (Bloomfield)
T & A's (Monsey, NY) R.I.P.

Limited Success: (more strikeouts than action)

Jiggles (Hawthorne)
Blue Goose (P-town)

Strikeouts:

Clancy's (Bloomfield)
Titilations (Bloomfield)
Johnny A's Players (Hackensack)
Moonlight (P-Town)
Baby Doll's (P-town)
Pleasure Lounge (South Hackensack)

[brykster]

Great Success:

Doc Caves (P-town)
Cabaret (P-town)
5th Ave (P-town)
Marcet Cafe (P-town)
Guy's (P-town)
Hitching Post (P-town)
Heartbreakers (Bloomfield)
T & A's (Monsey, NY) R.I.P.

Limited Success: (more strikeouts than action)

Jiggles (Hawthorne)
Blue Goose (P-town)

Strikeouts:

Clancy's (Bloomfield)
Titilations (Bloomfield)
Johnny A's Players (Hackensack)
Moonlight (P-Town)
Baby Doll's (P-town)
Pleasure Lounge (South Hackensack)

Jiggles, how is ole' Jiggles? i haven't been there in years. i also drew blank at Clancy's and as for Hurrah's, i've been told i started too late in the game. alot of places have gone wild to mild, like for instance, Emeralds before it closed.

[brykster]

i got head upstairs at the batcave, she went under the table

well, i meant stripclubs....but o.k.

was it goth night.

[justlooking]

what the hell is the point of that?

Fuck if I know.

(I guess they can slip you a handie if they think no one's looking.)

[stevana]

what the hell is the point of that?

The communal room and set-up vary quite a bit. Some provide for considerable privacy even though there might be others in the room (lighting, furniture arrangement, etc.) The point is that that is where you get VHM with very high quality ladies.

[justlooking]

You can get VHM in the kinds of communal rooms they have at Flashdancers??????????

(I know the Private Eyes communal room is set up a little differently and is more conducive to "privacy".)

[stevana]

Flash setup is not conducive. Other one room setups are. Point is that they vary so the degree of privacy varies.

[aceofclubs26]

Jiggles, how is ole' Jiggles? i haven't been there in years. i also drew blank at Clancy's and as for Hurrah's, i've been told i started too late in the game. alot of places have gone wild to mild, like for instance, Emeralds before it closed.

The last time I went to Jiggles was about 2 months ago and I stayed for about an hour. It was more of a last resort to see if things changed. If the P-town scene is depressing, I'll make this my last stop to see if there is a diamond in the rough. I know ahead of time that action most likely will not happen but hold out hope I could convince one of the girls to have me drive them home instead of the Portugese taxi.

The only time I received action here was about two years ago with an older Brazilian blonde who lived closer to the Jersey shore. After paying for a LD, she had no problem jerking me off in the little closet next to the stage.

The next year I ended up dating one of the dancers from there for a few months and I stopped going after the relationship ended. The last time I went two months ago was the first time I went in a year.

[madvex]

i think this could be an interesting to know which clubs you've been able to get at least a handjob.

The numerous factors involved in getting extras makes it difficult to say what you might get where and when just by the house.

I have had VHM dances in many clubs where most guys strike out - why? I have no clue - the alignment of the planets? New Moon? Solar Eclipse? Who knows... It comes down to the individual experience.

So, that being said, I know that you know that I know you know all this.. so I digress. LOL

Here's my 2 (or is it 5 now??) cents worth :)

As an aside - please note that insomuch as I have found mileage, I have also struck out in every one of the places listed under "action" below versus those which I have listed under "struck out", in which I was NEVER able to wrangle action at all.

Given this, I also ranked the ease of realizing mileage where I have found it and if a possibility exists where I have not. :)

Action:
Cheeks (pemberton - too easy)
Playhouse (burlington - too easy)
Volcanic Eruptions (egg harbor - easy)
Fantasy Island (egg harbor city - R.I.P.)
Coconutz (atlantic city - takes some work)
Delilah's Den (Toms River - takes alot of work)
Delilah's Den (South Amboy - takes alot of work)
Delilah's Den (Manville - takes alot of work)
Go-Go Rama (lawrence harbor - takes alot of work)
VIPs [the old club-16] (west orange - takes some work)
Players (hackensack - easy)
Hitching Post (P-town - easy)
Heartbreakers (bloomfield - too easy)
Titillations (bloomfield - takes some work)
Torpedos (bound brook - takes some work)
Ooh La-La (bound brook- takes alot of work)
Private Dancers (bound brook - R.I.P)
Liquid Assets (umm... south plainfield?? - no longer HM)
Sinners (eliza-blech! R.I.P.)
Planet Pocono (poconos/buck twp, PA - takes some work)
Hustler Club (NYC - takes some work)
Erotic cafe (pensauken - easy)
Bottoms Up (irvington - too easy)
Fantasies (keyport - takes some work)
Fantasy Showbar (mt. ephraim R.I.P.)
Heartbreakers South (umm... Asbury Circle?? - takes some work)
Showplace (dover - easy)

Struck out:
Smiles (ledgewood - possibility exists)
Bare Exposure (atlantic city - possibility exists)
Bourbon Street (sayerville - who knows - I hate this place)
Silk/Heartbreakers North (N.Brunswick - R.I.P)
Players (greenbrook - R.I.P)
Hott 22 (union - very doubtful if not impossible - takeout maybe)
Shooters (union - possibility exists)
Cheeques (linden - who knwos? I have not been in years)
Jiggles (mays landing - maybe R.I.P. ?)


Happy Hunting!

[BoredInCT]

Action
x dreams (Babylon)

Strikeout
Hideaway Cafe (Stamford, CT)
Ruby's II (Bridgeport, CT)

[stevana]

Interesting how highend places have not been mentioned. Good.

[seeker6591]

http://utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28462



the list is right here.

why are u guys trying to reinvent the wheel???

lol

[seeker6591]

http://utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28462

[justlooking]

Because that thread is limited to HM "Dive" Clubs. This one is general.

(I mean, it's not like my three or four posts in this thread were so great or anything, but they wouldn't have been appropriate in that other one.)

[seeker6591]

excluding your high end clubs where you are getting whatever..

that list is 90 percent complete

[lapdancefan]

Brykster - you said "Tombstone" in Bridgeport. I think maybe you meant Keystone.

Successes not already mentioned -

Pleasant Moments - Bridgeport
Sunset Strip - Newburgh
Pleasure Island - Newburgh

An aside - I never heard of Paterson referred to as P-town. Where I come from that is shorthand for Provincetown. Seeing it here gave me a momentary .... well, I don't know. It just congers up an image I'd rather not have in my head.

[justlooking]

excluding your high end clubs where you are getting whatever..

But I kind of thought that exclusion was what induced brykster to start this thread. I thought it kind of spun off from that discussion we were having in the "Bartenders" thread.

[seeker6591]

go for it!

how about some spefic names??

[brykster]

[QUOTE=justlooking;642881]But I kind of thought that exclusion was what induced brykster to start this thread. /QUOTE]

ding, ding, ding. we have a winner.

i think JL was specific enough. he said any Manhattan club with a private VIP.

JL,

ever been up to the Bronx...Mirage specifically. private VIP available and likely much cheaper than you are used to.

[kerpal68]

madvex hitching post easy? I must have gone on the wrong nights. Have you been there since the doors have been removed? I know its possible but I haven't found it to be easy, yet atleast :)

[masquerade]

Scores (the old Scores, a few years back - no idea now)
Hustler
V.I.P Club (R.I.P.)
Paradise Club (R.I.P.)
Headquarters
Infinity in L.I.C.

[Slinky Bender]

From the other side of the fence..... .


Places where you've given at least a HJ?

[brykster]

madvex hitching post easy? I must have gone on the wrong nights. Have you been there since the doors have been removed? I know its possible but I haven't found it to be easy, yet atleast :)

yeah, i agree. i've only been a handful of times; but each time i was there, i just got a standard LD with maybe some heavy groping through the pants...not bad; but not VHM. that being said, i know a lot of guys have done better at Hitch. it's a matter of finding the "right" dancer and as always, YMMV.

[justlooking]

JL,

ever been up to the Bronx...Mirage specifically. private VIP available and likely much cheaper than you are used to.

No. Thanks for the tip!

[James2317]

OK, I mostly just lurk, but I cannot believe no one mentioned Hurrah's under the RIP option. There was a lot to be had back in the day (and then, well, there just wasn't much there).

[masquerade]

Places where you've given at least a HJ?

Not necessarily, just places I know them to be easily available.

[seeker6591]

what good is an rip program?

[masquerade]

what good is an rip program?

eh, we're all just reminiscing, I think.

[seeker6591]

....cool

[JerseyDan]

VHM
Players (S. Hackensack)
Lace (S.Hackensack)
Clancy's (Bloomfield)
Centerfolds (S. Hackensack)
Smiles2 (Ledgewood)
Tits (Bloomfield)
Hitching Post (Clifton)
Lace (Wayne) when Larry was the VIP host
Heatbreakers (Bloomfield)
Delilahs Den (Toms River and S. Amboy)
VIP (Linden)
PEC (NYC) I wasn't paying thank god
Headquaters (NYC)
Hustler Club (NYC)


VLM
Lookers (Elizabeth)
Hot 22 (Union)
Breathless (Rahway)
Shooters (Union)

[likesaction]

VHM
Players (S. Hackensack)
Lace (S.Hackensack)
Clancy's (Bloomfield)
Centerfolds (S. Hackensack)
Smiles2 (Ledgewood)
Tits (Bloomfield)
Hitching Post (Clifton)
Lace (Wayne) when Larry was the VIP host
Heatbreakers (Bloomfield)
Delilahs Den (Toms River and S. Amboy)
VIP (Linden)
PEC (NYC) I wasn't paying thank god
Headquaters (NYC)
Hustler Club (NYC)

And a few that I personally "experienced",

Liquid Assets (So Orange) no more
Showplace (Dover)
Bottoms Up (Irv)

Clancys, Heartbreakers, Smiles 2 may have been great once (and I remember Heartbreakers being outrageous).... I believe the golden days are over.

[Mr. Wet Wooly]

JL,

ever been up to the Bronx...Mirage specifically. private VIP available and likely much cheaper than you are used to.

I've seen an invite for a new club in the Bx called Bada Bing (yeah, original) with a VIP. Bills itself as the only club in New York with all Latin dancers.

[brykster]

I've seen an invite for a new club in the Bx called Bada Bing (yeah, original) with a VIP. Bills itself as the only club in New York with all Latin dancers.

this is intriguing...got any more info?

[kerpal68]

I have found it extremely difficult for any millage within Centerfolds or The Post let alone VHM. Either I am loosing my touch or doing something wrong there ;)

[masquerade]

Tits (Bloomfield)



hahaha... seriously?? There's a strip club called "Tits" ?! That's freakin' awesome.

[masquerade]

I've seen an invite for a new club in the Bx called Bada Bing (yeah, original) with a VIP. Bills itself as the only club in New York with all Latin dancers.

That seems kind of boring. Plus, they're seriously limiting their target audience. (Well, maybe seriously is a strong word, but still. Lots of dudes prefer white, black, or asian)

[Slinky Bender]

hahaha... seriously?? There's a strip club called "Tits" ?! That's freakin' awesome.


Titilations ("Tits" is a nickname).

[brykster]

That seems kind of boring. Plus, they're seriously limiting their target audience. (Well, maybe seriously is a strong word, but still. Lots of dudes prefer white, black, or asian)

i think there is a market out there for an all Latina club; although, i agree that it is limited from the standpoint of getting dancers. i've experienced many (lower end) clubs who have trouble with dancers showing up for their bookings...black, white, latina or other... plus, just about every club in Jersey is 90% Latina. it's not like it's such a big deal. now, a club with all Asians or Indians dancers...that'd be interesting...but there really isn't much mystique surrounding an all latina club. right now, the scene is completely overrun by Dominican dancers with a rare Brazilian thrown in.

i'm just waiting for the dancer who will sue the club for violating her
civil rights : )

[james_b]

First off, great thread you have going here!

Changing the topic a little I am going to be working on a job that puts me near the Ironbound section of Newark for a few days where I hear there are some clubs in the neck of the woods that our favorite Brazilian dancers come from. Any recommendations for VHM or any decent mileage not being greedy? Looks like there are about 5 clubs or so in Ironbound.

[brykster]

First off, great thread you have going here!

Changing the topic a little I am going to be working on a job that puts me near the Ironbound section of Newark for a few days where I hear there are some clubs in the neck of the woods that our favorite Brazilian dancers come from. Any recommendations for VHM or any decent mileage not being greedy? Looks like there are about 5 clubs or so in Ironbound.

hey Jim,

from my experience, Newark is pretty dead as far as mileage. a lot of guys talk about takeout; but inside the club is difficult. first off, for some reason, there are no LD's.

[brykster]

i actually think this is a pretty stupid thread i've started. most of the posts contain no useful information as they make no reference to time...because as we know, many clubs wax and wane as far as what is available and a VMH club today could be a church tomorrow. plus, many are posting about clubs that are now defunct (me included.)

however, the thread did go a long way to satisfy my curiosity in that i don't see too many guys posting the names of high end N.Y./N.J. clubs.

now, this may be reflective of several factors A) perhaps it is an indication of the kind of guys who use this board B) perhaps guys are reluctant to expose their best rooms C) perhaps guys are embarrased to admit they would spend that kind of money (considering most users are searching for a bargain) D) or pehaps it just isn't all that common to get VMH in upscale rooms.

always the diplomat, i will leave my opinion out of it. however, i am interested in what you guys think.

[brykster]

with this, i'd also like to know how many guys have found themselves in a high end club and was either turned off by the environment, did not feel the opportunity was there or found it too cost prohibitive to engage in any activities more substantial than a standard lap grind.

i myself, find high end clubs very boring. to me, i don't even feel like i'm in a strip club. plus, i don't find the dancers any more attractive than those in low end clubs. to me, these dancers lack individuality...but than again, i would never look at a Cosmo or Glamour either.

[justlooking]

now, this may be reflective of several factors A) perhaps it is an indication of the kind of guys who use this board B) perhaps guys are reluctant to expose their best rooms C) perhaps guys are embarrased to admit they would spend that kind of money (considering most users are searching for a bargain) D) or pehaps it just isn't all that common to get VMH in upscale rooms.

I think the answer to that is pretty clear.

Do you think the complete lack of posts in the "High End Room" section here means that nobody sees prostitutes who charge $500 or more an hour?

[seeker6591]

VHM

Lace (S.Hackensack)
Clancy's (Bloomfield)
Centerfolds (S. Hackensack)
Smiles2 (Ledgewood)
Tits (Bloomfield)
Hitching Post (Clifton)
Lace (Wayne) when Larry was the VIP host
Heatbreakers (Bloomfield)
Delilahs Den (Toms River and S. Amboy)



care to elaborate on these clubs Dan???

high mileage does not include a hj.

also...are these situations where your mileage may vary????

thanks.

[justlooking]

I agree with you, but at the biggining of this thread brykster said that, for purposes of this thread only, he was defining VHM to include hand jobs.

[justlooking]

with this, i'd also like to know how many guys have found themselves in a high end club and was either turned off by the environment, did not feel the opportunity was there or found it too cost prohibitive to engage in any activities more substantial than a standard lap grind.

That's just class warfare.

It's the usual UG problem: as soon as anybody wants to post about anything that's not cheap, people line up to start attacking it.

[seeker6591]

I agree with you, but at the biggining of this thread brykster said that, for purposes of this thread only, he was defining VHM to include hand jobs.

thanks for the heads up JL.

i missed that.

i am also not going to debate the question of mileage.

so my prior post is retracted.

good luck in here gents!

[Slinky Bender]

That's just class warfare.

It's the usual UG problem: as soon as anybody wants to post about anything that's not cheap, people line up to start attacking it.

And jealousy. You can see that all over a whole bunch of posts over the last few days. If anyone can afford to play at a higher price range, guys who can't, jump all over them. There's no "discussion", just a simple shouting down of anyone who CHOOSES to spend at the higher end BECAUSE THEY CAN AFFORD TO. The result is that those poeple simply don't post because no one needs to post meaningful information and be called an idiot for doing it, simply because someone else can't afford to play in the upper end playground.

And I'll 100% gaurantee that if pictures got included with the posts, it woul dimmediately become obvious that we were not making apples to apples comparisons.

BTW this thread is somehwat ironic since it seem slike th epurpose was to show the lack of clubs where milleage could be obtained, whereas the majority of clubs mentioned, it can be.

[brykster]

ironic since it seem slike th epurpose was to show the lack of clubs where milleage could be obtained, whereas the majority of clubs mentioned, it can be.

exactly, as i said in the beginning any club can be high mileage if you throw enough money around. the purpose was NOT to point out that mileage can't be had, it was to demonstrate that most users do not equate high end rooms with mileage and i would think that people who take the hobby to the point of posting on this board are pretty serious about it and are willing to spend a lot more money mongering than the general public.

most guys who walk into a high end room walk out with blue balls. does that mean everyone does? of course not.

another thing, i resent you making assumptions about me. i can most certainly afford to do whatever the fuck i want, i just choose to spend it the way i do and i do not begrudge the way you spend yours. this was never about money, it was about how many guys consider high end rooms a viable source of VHM....for whatever reason.

as far as us not comparing apples to apples...uh...i know what a pretty woman looks like. i've been to high end clubs. i'm just not interested in pounding one off into a barbie doll.

[justlooking]

I hate Barbie dolls, too. That just isn't what all the women in those clubs are like.

(Well, maybe PEC. But I hate that club.)

[Slinky Bender]

i do not begrudge the way you spend yours.


I will single this part out because it is so clearly NOT the case.

[Slinky Bender]

The second thing I will say is that I think you are being bitter because you started this thread with a clear agenda, and it hasn't quite worked out the way you thought it would.

Also, you are engaging in circular reasoning. You are using your premise as proof of your conclusion.

Also, you are arguing that Chocolate is better than Vanilla. One example "i know what a pretty woman looks like. i've been to high end clubs. i'm just not interested in pounding one off into a barbie doll". You might as well finish it with "and anyone who does is an idiot", because it's fairly obvious that this is what you are meaning.


the purpose was NOT to point out that mileage can't be had, it was to demonstrate that most users do not equate high end rooms with mileage .

And do you honestly think that is what was "demonstrated" in this thread?

You can argue all you want that this isn't about money, but not a single argument has been made which didn't list the cost as the reason. What's up with that?

[Slinky Bender]

Oh, WTF... I just can't leave this one alone

i can most certainly afford to do whatever the fuck i want.


bullshit. No one can. Not even jl. All this statement does is weaken your cred.

[Thorn]

Cheeks (pemberton - easy, but bj's and FS are pretty much a thing of the past here unless off campus)
Playhouse (burlington - easy owned by the same people who own Cheeks... same rules.)
Volcanic Eruptions (egg harbor - still easy.)
Delilah's Den (Toms River - takes alot of work- best for off campus)
Delilah's Den (South Amboy - takes alot of work-off campus)
Delilah's Den (Manville - takes alot of work-off campus)
Go-Go Rama (lawrence harbor - takes alot of work-easier in the VIP but too expensive. Off campus)
VIPs [the old club-16] (west orange - easy, bj's YMMV in the VIP)
Players (hackensack - still easy)
Hitching Post (P-town - not as easy as it use to be, but still available)
Heartbreakers (bloomfield - takes a little work now days - off campus is readily available)
Titillations (bloomfield - takes some work)
Torpedos (bound brook - takes some work)
Ooh La-La (bound brook- takes alot of work)
Liquid Assets (totally dropped from my rotation)
Hustler Club (NYC - easy with some $$$ and the VIP)
Erotic cafe (pensauken - easy)
Bottoms Up (irvington - too easy)
Fantasies (keyport - easy off campus available)
Showplace (dover - not as easy as it use to be. Depends on what bouncer is working and which booth you get)
Bare Exposure (atlantic city - easy in the VIP with $$$ but not cheap)
Bourbon Street (sayerville - off campus)
Hott 22 (union -no play at all, not even off campus)
Shooters (union - limited, but some off campus)
Wedgewood (broadway - No LD's, no extras - limited off campus with right dancer)
CR Fanny's (Easton, PA - very limited and highly YMMV, but off campus available to select few... that means $$$)
Club Risque (Bristol - I've heard different but I had no luck)
After Dark (Newark - takes a little work, no LD room, but you can get a handie at the bar with the right dancer)
Don Costa (great take out, but very difficult on site)
Nardone's (Elizabeth - difficult on site but good take out)
Stilletto (Carlstadt - very difficult but off campus for big $$$)

[masquerade]

I'm going to circumvent the deeper discussion here and just say that I also find most of the upscale places kind of boring, although it's certainly not because I think the dancers lack individuality. I've always gotten more of a thrill out of visiting the low end places and underground parties because I like gritty, and because there's usually a better chance that something weird and entertaining is going to happen.

[masquerade]

And I'll 100% gaurantee that if pictures got included with the posts, it woul dimmediately become obvious that we were not making apples to apples comparisons.


Yup. And it's funny, because this sort of thing comes up all the time around here and it seems like nobody ever gets called out on it. There's obviously exceptions to any rule, but I think that in general if a girl is attractive enough to work at a high end place and make a grand a night, then she's probably not going to continue working at a low end place where she makes a couple hundred - even if she really likes working at the low end place for whatever reason.

[Axe]

I'll throw my $0.02 in. We just had a Go-Go Rama update where the OP reported no action. I then chimed in, based on my own experiences there, that he was right...

Then madvex jumped in and said there is action, but its gonna take effort, i.e., TIME and MONEY. Mostly MONEY. Now, somewhere in the back of my head I knew this was true, but the cheapskate in me over-ruled it.

I wont make that mistake again.

[brykster]

And do you honestly think that is what was "demonstrated" in this thread?

i believe so.

you are acting very defensive here and i'm not sure why. the fact of the matter is that i conceded the point to JL days ago. this thread was to satisfy the scientist in me. i wanted to see if others out there see things the way i do. if you haven't realized, other than for demonstrating interest in a new all latina club, i've posted nothing other than the original post where i got the ball rolling...and again, this was after i conceded the VHM thing to JL, so i don't know what you are so pissed about. like i said, i do not begrudge you. it's not the way i play the game; but it's fine if that's what you want to do. you can read whatever you want into my words; but i don't use hidden meanings.

as for my problems with Masquerade's post, i just don't like hearing that people i give my hard earned money too are laughing at me. perhaps, i was taking the anger and frustration i have with all strippers on her.

no, we are not ostriches; but i think we'd all like to believe we are appreciated.

[brykster]

I'm going to circumvent the deeper discussion here and just say that I also find most of the upscale places kind of boring, although it's certainly not because I think the dancers lack individuality. I've always gotten more of a thrill out of visiting the low end places and underground parties because I like gritty, and because there's usually a better chance that something weird and entertaining is going to happen.

i agree with this whole heartedly...well, all except the bit about individuality. i sincerely think that most dancers at high end clubs have a very similar look' a look most men consider ideal...but not me.

[justlooking]

What's ironic is that I find that "ideal" look about as appealing as you do.

[brykster]

What's ironic is that I find that "ideal" look about as appealing as you do.

o.k., so why not join me in paterson for a night of short, heavy-set, 30 something Dominican women?

[justlooking]

That's not my preferred alternative.

[brykster]

That's not my preferred alternative.

i'm not surprised.

[justlooking]

I'm not surprised that you're not surprised.

[masquerade]

i agree with this whole heartedly...well, all except the bit about individuality. i sincerely think that most dancers at high end clubs have a very similar look' a look most men consider ideal...but not me.

I don't think that's really the case, though. Even at high end places nowadays you usually see quite a lot of variety - it's just a better looking cross section of women than you'd see at a low end place. What does the overall quality of the way someone looks have to do with individuality? Besides, there's a lot more to being unique than the way one looks. I've met plenty of pretty yet average looking strippers with super zany personalities, including ones with that "ideal" look you were talking about before. They were certainly not boring at all.

[Thorn]

I'm going to circumvent the deeper discussion here and just say that I also find most of the upscale places kind of boring, although it's certainly not because I think the dancers lack individuality. I've always gotten more of a thrill out of visiting the low end places and underground parties because I like gritty, and because there's usually a better chance that something weird and entertaining is going to happen.

Than I hope to see you at the party... :)

[brykster]

What does the overall quality of the way someone looks have to do with individuality?

absolutely nothing...as i said before, in my experience, they have a similar look.

[Thorn]

Yup. And it's funny, because this sort of thing comes up all the time around here and it seems like nobody ever gets called out on it. There's obviously exceptions to any rule, but I think that in general if a girl is attractive enough to work at a high end place and make a grand a night, then she's probably not going to continue working at a low end place where she makes a couple hundred - even if she really likes working at the low end place for whatever reason.

while I am no stranger to either the high or the low end, you'd be surprised how many really good looking gals work in the low end, and how many gals I'd think aren't very attractive at all work in the high end.

I chaulk it up to two things. There is a different taste for just about every man that exists. And attitude.

Many attractive women with low self-esteem don't think they can cut it in the high end, or they just like being the big fish in the small pond. Many less attractive women have dynamic attitudes that exude sex appeal.

Perfect example. Eartha Kitt. Never saw what makes her so "sexxy", even in her prime. Yet, with her attitude toward sex and her smokey voice, she was in her day all that and a bag of chips. Same could be said for Marlena Dietrich.

[brykster]

Oh, WTF... I just can't leave this one alone
bullshit. No one can. Not even jl. All this statement does is weaken your cred.

this is not such an outrageous statement. i can afford it. i'd have to slow down and not go out 4 days a week; but i pretty much spend that 1000 bucks every two weeks right now as it is.

[Bjacko]

this is intriguing...got any more info?

Used to be called The "G" spot not long ago. Someone must have thought they could capitalize by calling it the Bada Bing. I've been there when it was the G spot, but not since they changed the name to the Bada Bing. It was similar in atmosphere to Sin City and the Players Club, nothing special in my opinion.

[masquerade]

while I am no stranger to either the high or the low end, you'd be surprised how many really good looking gals work in the low end, and how many gals I'd think aren't very attractive at all work in the high end.

I chaulk it up to two things. There is a different taste for just about every man that exists. And attitude.

Many attractive women with low self-esteem don't think they can cut it in the high end, or they just like being the big fish in the small pond. Many less attractive women have dynamic attitudes that exude sex appeal.

Perfect example. Eartha Kitt. Never saw what makes her so "sexxy", even in her prime. Yet, with her attitude toward sex and her smokey voice, she was in her day all that and a bag of chips. Same could be said for Marlena Dietrich.


Nah, you know what - you're kind of right. I have seen some good looking girls in low-end places, although I still think that's sort of the exception to the rule. It always really suprises me, but I suppose there are lots of reasons why a woman who definitely has other options might choose to stay at one of these places. The big fish in a small sea thing is certainly a good example why this might happen.

[Slinky Bender]

Youy know, I've seen decent women in low rnd places, but lets not kid ourselves. Who want to take this bet:

You drag out to some parking lot ALL the dancers from BU, Johhny's Hitching Post and The Hustler Club and group them by the club they work for. Anyojne gonna try and tell me it will take more than 30 seconds for me to point out which group is which?

[azhadow]

Thorn, add one more:

VIP (Linden, across from passions): Easy in VIP w/ $$. 90% WOC.

[LorenzoDeMedici]

Youy know, I've seen decent women in low rnd places, but lets not kid ourselves. Who want to take this bet:

You drag out to some parking lot ALL the dancers from BU, Johhny's Hitching Post and The Hustler Club and group them by the club they work for. Anyojne gonna try and tell me it will take more than 30 seconds for me to point out which group is which?

While I would agree that your process would acheive that result. I think that, what Thorn exampled makes a lot of sense as well. And if you were to take ALL those girls & just mix them up. How often would you be correct as to picking which club they were from, individually?

[Thorn]

...i just don't like hearing that people i give my hard earned money too are laughing at me.

Than you better stop hanging out any place where women make a living off the fact that men have gonads and, at least in part, surrender their thinking process to that fact.

Having worked in strip-clubs where I was privy to what the dancers had to say about the customers on a regular basis, I can tell you that a goodly number of them [though not all] are less than kind in their assessment of 'custies' [or whatever other name they apply that means lesser being].

You can deal with it in two ways. 1) Understand that from their perspective they might have a point and that we are every bit the easily manipulated, sexually obsessed, louts they think us to be. 2) Understand that they need to make littler the people they are selling part of themselves to so as to feel they haven't actually lost anything in the bargain.

I gather its a bit of both.

[Thorn]

What's ironic is that I find that "ideal" look about as appealing as you do.


Ditto

[Thorn]

Youy know, I've seen decent women in low rnd places, but lets not kid ourselves. Who want to take this bet:

You drag out to some parking lot ALL the dancers from BU, Johhny's Hitching Post and The Hustler Club and group them by the club they work for. Anyojne gonna try and tell me it will take more than 30 seconds for me to point out which group is which?

Oh, no question about that. I wasn't trying to infer otherwise.

I was just saying that there are exceptions and they aren't too hard to find.

[JerseyDan]

There are alot of factors of course that will effect how much mileage you get at any club. I pretty much stick to girls I know for years and have had luck with in the past. They in turn will at times put their friends onto me who 90% of the time offer they same type of service (or better in some instances). Alot of girls will confide in me and basically let me in on the gossip "that girl is a whore she's giving BJ's for $50" etc. I gotten some great leads this way.

It probably helps that I am generous but smart with my $$. Most times I don't ask for anything the dance will just evolves naturally and at the end I will tip accordingly. I have had girls (not many) refuse a generous tip saying "I'm not a whore I just like having fun with you". I make sure girls who I am getting dances from like to drink so we can pound out 3 shots of tequilla at the bar and then go for dances. Tequilla goes a long way with some girls. I also have an eye for those that like to party. Even better especially if they are on MDMA.

Granted if have dated a couple girls and once that gets around I'm almost banned from the clubs I frequent. Then I have to find new territory to explore. This leads me to my list below. Clubs I have gotten VHM without knowing anyone or being a regular.

HeartBreakers Bloomfield
VIP Linden
Clancys Bloomfield
Hitching Post

Headquarters NYC (basically a brothel)
Hustler Club NYC (not in VIP in the Honey Suite)
Scores West NYC (in VIP)
Penthouse (in VIP) went to a party held in one of the rooms that turned into an orgy (NO JOKE)

[Thorn]

While I would agree that your process would acheive that result. I think that, what Thorn exampled makes a lot of sense as well. And if you were to take ALL those girls & just mix them up. How often would you be correct as to picking which club they were from, individually?

And how about this:

If you took the best Hustler, Penthouse, Goldfingers [high end], had to offer and the best of Stilletos, Lace, Delilahs Den [mid-range] and than Nardone's, Go-Go Rama, AJ's, etc, and mixed them all together you'd see that you'd be hard pressed to tell who worked where. Though I give you that if you broke them down by club you'd than see a marked difference in numbers of who worked where.

[I discount the cellar here: Rah-Rah, VIP, BU, any club in Irvington, Newark or Paterson, except Hurrahs, as these aren't really strip-clubs or go-gos but brothels with a club veneer. Have to compare apples with apples.]

[fortydog]

I think the basis for the rift in this thread stems from the amount of hustle that goes on in both low and high end clubs. Let's say for talking purposes that the chances of blowing money and getting no mileage is about the same at both places. At the high end places, you can spend alot and get basically nothing (unless you no what your doing like JL). At the low end you can spend much less to get nothing. It all comes down to risk. If I spent $1000 at a high end club and got nothing I would feel pretty terrible. If I blew $100 at a low end place I wouldn't feel as bad.

You see, at a high end club, you have to spend time and money before getting anywhere. There is always that chance that the girl will bail, taking the 'getting to know you money' before any mileage has been attained. We've all seen it...the newb gets fleeced and his balls are blue.

If i'm gonna spend alot, I want the risks to be lower. That is why I avoid the high end clubs.

[justlooking]

You see, at a high end club, you have to spend time and money before getting anywhere. There is always that chance that the girl will bail, taking the 'getting to know you money' before any mileage has been attained. We've all seen it...the newb gets fleeced and his balls are blue.

Heh. Where have we heard about THAT before?

[brykster]

Than you better stop hanging out any place where women make a living off the fact that men have gonads and, at least in part, surrender their thinking process to that fact.

thorn,

i know what's going on. i'm not naive; but when it's done so brazenly and in my face as was the case in the "dress code" thread, i fight it. as i said before, i can't possibly spit in the face of every dancer that has laughed at me; but i can voice my anger here.

that being said, i think your explanation is both accurate and useful, especially point number 2...and i must admit, i've walked out of strip clubs laughing at dancers (their self-destructive behavior, their vapid attempts at intellect, in some cases their miserably failing attempts at being sexy) probably just as hard as they've laughed at me and my denim shorts.

[justlooking]

And you notice nobody's jumping all over Thorn saying, "How dare you say that when there are sex workers who read this board?"

[brykster]

And you notice nobody's jumping all over Thorn saying, "How dare you say that when there are sex workers who read this board?"

yes, i know, you are right, but i'm still going to speak my mind...or type my thoughts...or whateverthefuck i'm doing here. look, if she has the right to say she laughs at guys who dress like i do, i have the right to call her a ....., right?

i've come to the idea that you must enjoy a close personal relationship with this broad...either that, or you are just as bored as i am.

[justlooking]

Shit, OF COURSE you should speak your mind.

That's the whole fucking point.

[justlooking]

Anyway, I used to get just as hot & bothered on behalf of hvb. And you can BELIEVE I didn't have a close personal relationship with her.

(If we weren't all bored, there wouldn't be a UG.)

[findingnow]

Cheeks (pemberton - easy, but bj's and FS are pretty much a thing of the past here unless off campus)
Playhouse (burlington - easy owned by the same people who own Cheeks... same rules.)
Volcanic Eruptions (egg harbor - still easy.)
Delilah's Den (Toms River - takes alot of work- best for off campus)
Delilah's Den (South Amboy - takes alot of work-off campus)
Delilah's Den (Manville - takes alot of work-off campus)
Go-Go Rama (lawrence harbor - takes alot of work-easier in the VIP but too expensive. Off campus)
VIPs [the old club-16] (west orange - easy, bj's YMMV in the VIP)
Players (hackensack - still easy)
Hitching Post (P-town - not as easy as it use to be, but still available)
Heartbreakers (bloomfield - takes a little work now days - off campus is readily available)
Titillations (bloomfield - takes some work)
Torpedos (bound brook - takes some work)
Ooh La-La (bound brook- takes alot of work)
Liquid Assets (totally dropped from my rotation)
Hustler Club (NYC - easy with some $$$ and the VIP)
Erotic cafe (pensauken - easy)
Bottoms Up (irvington - too easy)
Fantasies (keyport - easy off campus available)
Showplace (dover - not as easy as it use to be. Depends on what bouncer is working and which booth you get)
Bare Exposure (atlantic city - easy in the VIP with $$$ but not cheap)
Bourbon Street (sayerville - off campus)
Hott 22 (union -no play at all, not even off campus)
Shooters (union - limited, but some off campus)
Wedgewood (broadway - No LD's, no extras - limited off campus with right dancer)
CR Fanny's (Easton, PA - very limited and highly YMMV, but off campus available to select few... that means $$$)
Club Risque (Bristol - I've heard different but I had no luck)
After Dark (Newark - takes a little work, no LD room, but you can get a handie at the bar with the right dancer)
Don Costa (great take out, but very difficult on site)
Nardone's (Elizabeth - difficult on site but good take out)
Stilletto (Carlstadt - very difficult but off campus for big $$$)

I am surprised at Torpedos. I used to go there regularly for a long time and
between the bouncers and the cameras could not get anything. I have only gone once since the new layout, but didn't find it any easier.

[Axe]

Whats surprised me most about this thread is the mile-long lists of clubs from some of the members. You guys STILL go to that many places all the time?

Sorry, but the pattern I see is that once someone finds one or two or three places they like (doesnt matter if they're high-end or low-end) they tend to stick with them.

I'm betting a good part of that info is OLD.

[Slinky Bender]

While I would agree that your process would acheive that result. I think that, what Thorn exampled makes a lot of sense as well. And if you were to take ALL those girls & just mix them up. How often would you be correct as to picking which club they were from, individually?


I tell you what, we'll do it your way and bet $50 a head. I just about gaurantee I'll get 100% of the low end women correct, because as much as people here want to talk about the "beauties" they find at the low end places, I've actaully been to just about every single one within 50 miles of Manahttan at one point or another, and it's just not the case with any sort of regularity that you get anyone at any of these places who would even get an interview at any of the "Gentlemen's Clubs" in Manhattan. So, after I get 1/3 right, even if i just randomly pike the others and got 50/50, I'd be 2/3's to 1/3 in the betting. But this wouldn't happen either, because I'd simply pick all the Russians under 30 who were slim, with good skin and pretty faces for teh middle end place, and all the Americans for the upper end place and I'd be 85% on those. The only problem would be the good looking black girls, where there is some crossover between a place like Johnny A's and a place like the Hustler Club. But for that, the answer is: the one's with no tattoos and/or foreign accents and/or more fashionable haricuts get picked for the Hustler Club. But anyway, it doesn't matter much because there will only be 4 of them between the two clubs anyway, since both severely limit the amount of black girls they will allow at any one time.

[brykster]

I'm betting a good part of that info is OLD.

oh, of course it is. i have a rotation of four clubs within 4 miles of one another and another 2 in Ct. that are also within a couple of miles of each other. most of the the clubs i mentioned, i haven't been to in at least a year...but that wasn't really why i started the thread. my main motivation was to see how many UG guys have experienced VHM in an upscale club.

[Slinky Bender]

I think the basis for the rift in this thread stems from the amount of hustle that goes on in both low and high end clubs. Let's say for talking purposes that the chances of blowing money and getting no mileage is about the same at both places. At the high end places, you can spend alot and get basically nothing (unless you no what your doing like JL). At the low end you can spend much less to get nothing. It all comes down to risk. If I spent $1000 at a high end club and got nothing I would feel pretty terrible. If I blew $100 at a low end place I wouldn't feel as bad.

You see, at a high end club, you have to spend time and money before getting anywhere. There is always that chance that the girl will bail, taking the 'getting to know you money' before any mileage has been attained. We've all seen it...the newb gets fleeced and his balls are blue.

If i'm gonna spend alot, I want the risks to be lower. That is why I avoid the high end clubs.

a) You are right
b) you are right because this is what works for you.

In other words, you are enitriely entitled to decide where on the risk/reward spectrum you want to place yourself. But what happens on this board constantly is guys not only trying to decide for other guys where they should be on that spectrum, but berating them for their choices, and misrepresenting facts about the spectrum to enhance the concept that their comfort zone on that spectrum is "the only place to be".

But a counter point: how much would you pay for a raffle ticket where the prize was a lime green leisure suit? Even if the chances of winning were one in 5 rather than 1 in 100, if you don't want the prize it doesn't matter what the odds are. So, if you go to lowere end places where the risk is low, but the payoff, if you get it, is worth zero, you are actually doing worse odds wise. As such, if a guy has no interest in the strippers who inhabit any place, whether very low end, low end, middle end, whatever, it is not a "good bet" to go to those places anyway because his odds of losing are less, because his odds of "losing" are 100% because there is no winning!!!!!!!

In other words, if you want lobster, you have to go where they serve lobster, even if the place is always packed and you rarely get in. If you go to MacDonalds, you will always get in, but your chances of getting lobster are flat zero, because MacDonalds never serves lobster. Now, what some guys will say is the moral equivalent of "well, MacDonalds is just as good as lobster" or "I can afford lobster if I want it, but I choose to eat at MacDonalds". But it still doesn't make MacDonalds into lobster, and it doesn't make MacDonalds just as good as lobster for guys who really want lobster.

And also, for the guys who say that MacDonalds is just as good as lobster (and with eyes open, there are PLENTY of them whether they choose to admit it or not), put down the lobster and the MacDonalds in front of them and tell them to pick which one they want for free..... how many do you think will pick the MacDonalds?

[Thorn]

Whats surprised me most about this thread is the mile-long lists of clubs from some of the members. You guys STILL go to that many places all the time?

Sorry, but the pattern I see is that once someone finds one or two or three places they like (doesnt matter if they're high-end or low-end) they tend to stick with them.

I'm betting a good part of that info is OLD.

I have a rotation. I may hit a current favorite more often than others, but I run though the list about once every 4-6 weeks. I hit 3-4 that are near each other on a given afternoon or evening.

[Axe]

I have a rotation. I may hit a current favorite more often than others, but I run though the list about once every 4-6 weeks. I hit 3-4 that are near each other on a given afternoon or evening.

Excellent. Very impressive!

[Thorn]

You see, at a high end club, you have to spend time and money before getting anywhere. There is always that chance that the girl will bail, taking the 'getting to know you money' before any mileage has been attained.

That is only if you cultivate dancers, which is a mistake.

Who you cultivate is management.

FoM status reduces, if not totally eliminates, both the need to figure out who does and doesn't, but also having to spend a great deal of "getting to know you" money.

Guys who truly make hay in the S-C's, especially high end S-C's, worry about getting to know the bartenders, managers, DJ's and bouncers [pretty much in that order] long before they worry about getting to know the dancers.

[Thorn]

Heh. Where have we heard about THAT before?


Yes, but you are so FoM at this point at so many clubs that a lot of that has to have gone by the wayside by now, yes?

[Thorn]

thorn,

i know what's going on. i'm not naive; but when it's done so brazenly and in my face as was the case in the "dress code" thread, i fight it. as i said before, i can't possibly spit in the face of every dancer that has laughed at me; but i can voice my anger here.



Well than, consider this than: It is my experience that when someone truly feels some form of superior to you they laud it quietly over you.

When they brazenly laugh in your face it is usually some form of trying to recapture status they feel has been lost.

That certainly isn't foolproof, but like I said... more times than not.

[james_b]

Cheeks (pemberton - easy, but bj's and FS are pretty much a thing of the past here unless off campus)
Playhouse (burlington - easy owned by the same people who own Cheeks... same rules.)
Volcanic Eruptions (egg harbor - still easy.)
Delilah's Den (Toms River - takes alot of work- best for off campus)
Delilah's Den (South Amboy - takes alot of work-off campus)
Delilah's Den (Manville - takes alot of work-off campus)
Go-Go Rama (lawrence harbor - takes alot of work-easier in the VIP but too expensive. Off campus)
VIPs [the old club-16] (west orange - easy, bj's YMMV in the VIP)
Players (hackensack - still easy)
Hitching Post (P-town - not as easy as it use to be, but still available)
Heartbreakers (bloomfield - takes a little work now days - off campus is readily available)
Titillations (bloomfield - takes some work)
Torpedos (bound brook - takes some work)
Ooh La-La (bound brook- takes alot of work)
Liquid Assets (totally dropped from my rotation)
Hustler Club (NYC - easy with some $$$ and the VIP)
Erotic cafe (pensauken - easy)
Bottoms Up (irvington - too easy)
Fantasies (keyport - easy off campus available)
Showplace (dover - not as easy as it use to be. Depends on what bouncer is working and which booth you get)
Bare Exposure (atlantic city - easy in the VIP with $$$ but not cheap)
Bourbon Street (sayerville - off campus)
Hott 22 (union -no play at all, not even off campus)
Shooters (union - limited, but some off campus)
Wedgewood (broadway - No LD's, no extras - limited off campus with right dancer)
CR Fanny's (Easton, PA - very limited and highly YMMV, but off campus available to select few... that means $$$)
Club Risque (Bristol - I've heard different but I had no luck)
After Dark (Newark - takes a little work, no LD room, but you can get a handie at the bar with the right dancer)
Don Costa (great take out, but very difficult on site)
Nardone's (Elizabeth - difficult on site but good take out)
Stilletto (Carlstadt - very difficult but off campus for big $$$)

Maybe we need a new rating system. VHM = FS, HM = BJ, MM = HJ to clear up any confusion. Just a thought, but I know we all want to keep from being teased and ripped off by clubs that offer nothing but ZeroM LD's.

Anywho let me add from my travels through Bucks County.

Ball Park (Croydon, PA - MM easy, HM takes some work, but there are many postings saying this club gets wild at night, take out, but that may be outdated info)
Red Raven (Bristol, PA - takes some work, some have said easy at least for MM)
Sugar and Spice (Morrisville, PA - takes some work, ymmv)

Club Risque has a location in Bucks and in Phila. You may have heard the one in Phila is more HM, but I can't speak from experience.

[LorenzoDeMedici]

I tell you what, we'll do it your way and bet $50 a head. I just about gaurantee I'll get 100% of the low end women correct, because as much as people here want to talk about the "beauties" they find at the low end places, I've actaully been to just about every single one within 50 miles of Manahttan at one point or another, and it's just not the case with any sort of regularity that you get anyone at any of these places who would even get an interview at any of the "Gentlemen's Clubs" in Manhattan. So, after I get 1/3 right, even if i just randomly pike the others and got 50/50, I'd be 2/3's to 1/3 in the betting. But this wouldn't happen either, because I'd simply pick all the Russians under 30 who were slim, with good skin and pretty faces for teh middle end place, and all the Americans for the upper end place and I'd be 85% on those. The only problem would be the good looking black girls, where there is some crossover between a place like Johnny A's and a place like the Hustler Club. But for that, the answer is: the one's with no tattoos and/or foreign accents and/or more fashionable haricuts get picked for the Hustler Club. But anyway, it doesn't matter much because there will only be 4 of them between the two clubs anyway, since both severely limit the amount of black girls they will allow at any one time.



You know sometimes I just like to sit back & read a logical mind at work!

[LorenzoDeMedici]

Well than, consider this than: It is my experience that when someone truly feels some form of superior to you they laud it quietly over you.

When they brazenly laugh in your face it is usually some form of trying to recapture status they feel has been lost.

That certainly isn't foolproof, but like I said... more times than not.

Oh' it's close enough !!

[justlooking]

That is only if you cultivate dancers, which is a mistake.

Who you cultivate is management.

FoM status reduces, if not totally eliminates, both the need to figure out who does and doesn't, but also having to spend a great deal of "getting to know you" money.

Guys who truly make hay in the S-C's, especially high end S-C's, worry about getting to know the bartenders, managers, DJ's and bouncers [pretty much in that order] long before they worry about getting to know the dancers.

This is absolutely correct. Key.

The only addendum I'd make (which is obvious, and I know Thorn knows it but just didn't bother to state it in this thread) is that you cultivate strippers for out-of-club stuff, and management for in-club stuff. The two are completely different.

[justlooking]

I have a rotation. I may hit a current favorite more often than others, but I run though the list about once every 4-6 weeks. I hit 3-4 that are near each other on a given afternoon or evening.

I remember when there were enough good clubs in Manhattan to have a rotation.

[sob]

[justlooking]

my main motivation was to see how many UG guys have experienced VHM in an upscale club.

Why? So you could even further marginalize the guys who have, so that instead of posting here infrequently, we'll post here never?

[justlooking]

(I guess it looks a little stupid for a guy with a 19,000 post count to talk about posting infrequently. But you know what I mean.)

[justlooking]

Frankly, what I thought was notable about this thread was how many guys confirmed the fact that VHM is available at "upscale" Manhattan clubs.

Cuz if it is, who cares how many UG guys get it? That's just a choice or preference on their part. It doesn't prove anything -- unless you want to establish some kind of fascist "if the majority doesn't do it, nobody can talk about it" rule.

[brykster]

Frankly, what I thought was notable about this thread was how many guys confirmed the fact that VHM is available at "upscale" Manhattan clubs.

Cuz if it is, who cares how many UG guys get it? That's just a choice or preference on their part. It doesn't prove anything -- unless you want to establish some kind of fascist "if the majority doesn't do it, nobody can talk about it" rule.

jesus christ, you still don't get it. you still feel the need to be defensive. this thread is all about me not you, not whether VHM is available at your clubs...we established it certainly was several days ago. i just wanted to know how many guys out there think like me. am i amongst my peers? ...and the answer to that question in most cases is yes. that's all i wanted to know. stop trying to read more into it, because it ain't there. my question was am i alone in not having experienced "upscale" pussy and from most of these posts, i am not. that's all i wanted to know.

[likesaction]

Originally Posted by brykster
my main motivation was to see how many UG guys have experienced VHM in an upscale club.

--by justlooking-- Why? So you could even further marginalize the guys who have, so that instead of posting here infrequently, we'll post here never?
Just, where did THAT come from? I didn't interpret that at all. I also didn't expect a lot of guys to have gotten VHM at high end clubs. I've posted in the past that I always felt: more neon means less mileage. I thought there was so much more (of an investment) to lose if a high-end club owner were to get busted.

I was wrong. It's surprising to me-- if you're willing to pay, you can get it. That's the point of this string.

[justlooking]

I was wrong. It's surprising to me-- if you're willing to pay, you can get it. That's the point of this string.

Except brykster said that's NOT the point of this thread.

He said that the point of this thread was to establish that UG is primarily a forum for guys who don't go to "upscale" clubs, apparently so he wouldn't have to worry for some reason about not being among his "peers":

jesus christ, you still don't get it. you still feel the need to be defensive. this thread is all about me not you, not whether VHM is available at your clubs...we established it certainly was several days ago. i just wanted to know how many guys out there think like me. am i amongst my peers? ...and the answer to that question in most cases is yes. that's all i wanted to know. stop trying to read more into it, because it ain't there. my question was am i alone in not having experienced "upscale" pussy and from most of these posts, i am not. that's all i wanted to know.

I'M being defensive?????????????????????????????

[Axe]

And how about this:

If you took the best Hustler, Penthouse, Goldfingers [high end], had to offer and the best of Stilletos, Lace, Delilahs Den [mid-range] and than Nardone's, Go-Go Rama, AJ's, etc, and mixed them all together you'd see that you'd be hard pressed to tell who worked where. Though I give you that if you broke them down by club you'd than see a marked difference in numbers of who worked where.

[I discount the cellar here: Rah-Rah, VIP, BU, any club in Irvington, Newark or Paterson, except Hurrahs, as these aren't really strip-clubs or go-gos but brothels with a club veneer. Have to compare apples with apples.]

Too easy. Lets make it a challenge:

Do it blindfolded and go by your sense of SMELL.

[Axe]

Youy know, I've seen decent women in low rnd places, but lets not kid ourselves. Who want to take this bet:

You drag out to some parking lot ALL the dancers from BU, Johhny's Hitching Post and The Hustler Club and group them by the club they work for. Anyojne gonna try and tell me it will take more than 30 seconds for me to point out which group is which?



um..sorry...I meant to quote slinky...

[RuffToy]

What exactly is considered VHM in a SC? How far do you have to get for it to be considerd VHM?

[justlooking]

For purposes of this thread ONLY, brykster has defined it as hand job or better.

[Slinky Bender]

jesus christ, you still don't get it. you still feel the need to be defensive. this thread is all about me not you, not whether VHM is available at your clubs...we established it certainly was several days ago. i just wanted to know how many guys out there think like me. am i amongst my peers? ...and the answer to that question in most cases is yes. that's all i wanted to know. stop trying to read more into it, because it ain't there. my question was am i alone in not having experienced "upscale" pussy and from most of these posts, i am not. that's all i wanted to know.


Let's say this was a car forum. And it was supposed to be about all cars. But every time someone talked about their Ferrari, a bunch of guys who had never sat in a Ferrari talked down Ferrari's as being too expensive, too hard to mantian, complained about how snooty Ferrari salesmen were (even though they'd only ever been in a one Ferrari dealship once in their lives, wearing shorts, socks and sneakers* and said "I'm just looking"**) and generally ran down Ferrari's.

And then, just to make sure they were in the majority, they asked "well, how many people here actually own a Ferrari?". And suprise, suprise!!!!! Very few people posted that they did. What a surprise that would be, because, first of all, out of just plain economics, only a small percentage of the population would own them to begin with. But secondly, after a constant onslaught of being put down for owning a Ferrari, or even liking Ferrari's, how many guys are going to post about owning or liking them?

And furthermore, when one of the guys who owns a Chevy posts all the time about Chevy's. And there are 100 other guys who also post about Chevy's. And there are 10,000 posts on the forum about Chevy's. And none of the Ferrari or Bently or Lotus or, or, or ,or has ever joined in the discussions about Chevy's and said anything like "Chevy's are so pedestrian. They don't go zero to 60 in under 5 seconds. They have no style. Etc, etc.etc". And then one of the Chevy guys posts again about Ferrari's, and one of the Ferrari guys finally complains about all the Ferrari bashing, the Chevy guy makes a post about "Well, how many guys here actually own Ferrari's?", and he explains it's because he needs to make sure he's not the lone Chevy owner in the forum....... it seems a little hollow, and I think it only further marginalizes teh guys with exotic cars, and in the exptreme almost comes off as a veiled threat, like "Don't forget who is in the majority here", and makes it all the less liekly that guys who own exotic cars won't think that if they want to have discussions about their exotics, they'd better find a different forum to do it on.

* sorry, it's to perfect not to use

** irony.

[Slinky Bender]

In other words, what does it add to the discussion if there is talk about an upscale club, and someone comes in and just throws in the stinkbomb "well, I guess that club is ok if you're a millionaire", without any specific information about that club, but just a slam against Gentelmen's Clubs as a whole?

It is no difference than guys who go to brothels entering into discussion about upscale Rub and Tug places and throwing in the stinkbomb "Are you crazy? For that much money I can get laid". It does nothing to further the conversation amongst people who want to discuss a certain subject.

And it's almost universally the "lower end" guys in any area comming in and polluting teh discussions of the higher end guys, and almost never the other way aroud,

Or, have I missed all the posts by justlooking in the BU threads saying "I wouldn't fuck one of those 50 year old Russian skanks with a rented dick"?, even if that's exactgly what he thinks every time he reads about it? Or, clyde coming into the discussions about the $40 AMPs and saying "I can't even imagine letting one of the Grandmas touch me, much less think of them in any sexual way at all".

[franca]

Guy spends an hour sitting on a hot stove.

Guy has a one-hour session with Nasty Patti.

Thinks to himself, "Same amount of time."

Did he mean than Patti is a skank?

[brykster]

03-11-2007, 10:24 PM
justlooking

"And please understand, I'm hardly unique in this."

while he is not unique per se, it does not seem that common either; at least amongst hard core mongers. really, your inability to accept that there was no underlying negativity in my decision to start this thread is really surprising.

[justlooking]

in the exptreme almost comes off as a veiled threat, like "Don't forget who is in the majority here", and makes it all the less liekly that guys who own exotic cars won't think that if they want to have discussions about their exotics, they'd better find a different forum to do it on.

Somebody asked, in one of these threads, why Slinky Bender was being so "defensive" about this. You guys should realize how much it hurts what he wants for this board for an entire segment of the market to feel like it's being chased off of it.

Also, maybe Slinky Bender is getting sick of hearing service providers say, as an excuse for not buying ads here, that it's "well known" that this is the "cheapskate board." Now understand: obviously there's nothing wrong with discussing the so-called "lower" end of the market. But it isn't good for the board, either culturally or economically, to have the "upper" end of the market chased off, or for the "lower-end" guys (NOT meant as a pejorative) to act like, "this is OUR board, and the rest of you (service providers as well as consumers) can go fuck yourselves."

Why shouldn't Slinky Bender feel "defensive" about that?

[Slinky Bender]

That is 100% correct, but add to it when anyone one either of the others sides* makes similar (but obviously converse) statements, the guys who are "guilty"** of this have conniptions.

* side b = guys who pay more, side c = service providers

** maybe too perjorative a word, but I'm too lazy to come up with a more PC one right now.

In other words, when/if some internet hooker comes on and makes disparraging remarks about guys who see streetwalkers, she gets shit like she said the "N word" at the Apollo (and not that she shouldn't hear back at all from guys defending their position, but look at the balance in what actually occurs). And, as I'm beating like a dead horse, you just plain do not see at all higher end guys crticising lower end guys about their choices. The one notable exception to this was several arguments about Julie's place, but they were not criticisms about going to Julie's: they were arguments about guys over romanticising their visits (and more specifically, the looks of the girls who they saw there as compared to girls charging 3 times as much).

[Slinky Bender]

Also, maybe Slinky Bender is getting sick of hearing service providers say, as an excuse for not buying ads here, that it's "well known" that this is the "cheapskate board." Now understand: obviously there's nothing wrong with discussing the so-called "lower" end of the market. But it isn't good for the board, either culturally or economically, to have the "upper" end of the market chased off, or for the "lower-end" guys (NOT meant as a pejorative) to act like, "this is OUR board, and the rest of you (service providers as well as consumers) can go fuck yourselves."

Why shouldn't Slinky Bender feel "defensive" about that?

And maybe slinkybender is sick and tired of things like some middle end internet girl who looks like model come and make a post in the ad section, and having guys make a gratuiotous posts following her ad for $400 and hour (which may very well be below marked rate) saying "If I had a million dollars, maybe I'd try her" or "Are you running any $50 specials?", especailly when he's jumped up and down and posted in the rules for that section:

"4) Gratuitous flaming of advertisers here will not be tolerated.*

* if there is some well known issue with any advertiser in this section, simply link to the thread where such discussion exists."

and

"To the guys: please keep any comments regarding your thoughts as to the pricing structure of anyone who posts here to yourselves."

[Gavvy Cravath]

Somebody asked, in one of these threads, why Slinky Bender was being so "defensive" about this. You guys should realize how much it hurts what he wants for this board for an entire segment of the market to feel like it's being chased off of it.


Well, that is a completely legit excuse for me. For what it's worth, and I have only been on UG for two and a half years, but the recent contributions from the supply-side have really added to the discussion for me. For a while there, very few girls posted on UG. Although I probably am a misogynist at heart, I like reading the posts from the fairer sex.

Justlooking makes an excellent post here.

Gavy

[justlooking]

That's fine, but I want to be clear that I WASN'T talking about supply-siders when I said that.

I think women should be treated fairly here. But I don't think they should get a free ride.

[justlooking]

To be absolutely clear, when I (and I think Slinky Bender is saying the same thing) talk about an entire market segment being driven from the board, we're not talking about service providers.

We're talking about anything above the "low end". Consumers AND service providers.

[brykster]

To be absolutely clear, when I (and I think Slinky Bender is saying the same thing) talk about an entire market segment being driven from the board, we're not talking about service providers.

We're talking about anything above the "low end". Consumers AND service providers.

again, you are the one who made it into class warfare. again, i was interested in seeing how many UGers have gotten VHM at an upscale club...YOU created the implications. secondly, i was mad at M because she said something insulting. if a guy came here and posted the same thing, everyone would be jumping down his throat. in addition, as i've said before, i had no idea who M was. again, YOU turned that into a class battle as well. as for us driving the high end market away, i submit this, 90% of the time someone gets ragged on for paying too much, it is because they've gone to a club we are familiar with and have overpayed, ruining the pricing structure for us all in that particular room. before this class struggle you've chosen to create, i could count the number of times i've commented or referenced an upscale room on one hand.

plus, i don't know if it's the attitude of the users driving away advertisers away as much as it is the fact that the majority of guys using this board tend to mind the economic aspects of the hobby very carefully. for many (me included) quantity is more important than quality...within reason, of course. the fact of the matter is there aren't many guys like you on these boards and i don't think it is because they were chased away. i think it's because they enjoy the kind of resources that make boards of this type unnecessary to them.

BTW, i've attempted on a few occasions to dispense with this topic. any time you are willing, this can end.

[Slinky Bender]

Were you the model for Chiller Theater?

[brykster]

Were you the model for Chiller Theater?

what's that?

[brykster]

just googled it and uh, i wasn't alive when that show was on.

[justlooking]

the fact of the matter is there aren't many guys like you on these boards and i don't think it is because they were chased away. i think it's because they enjoy the kind of resources that make boards of this type unnecessary to them.

FWIW, I think that's actually a pretty cogent point as far as it goes. (Not too good for Slinky Bender's advertising prospects, but that's his problem, not mine.)

The only problem is, it limits the purpose of this board too much. This board has always been about discussion at least as much as it's been about information. You're letting the information function sort of destroy the discussion function, by excluding a whole class of people (actually, at least two whole classes of people: the middle and the top)* from the dialogue. I guess probably you don't care much about discussion, so it doesn't matter to you.

I don't want to be furthering the "class warfare" thing, but now that I think about it, I can see how "information" could be more important to guys who feel they have to (or want to) pinch pennies, and "discussion" could be more important to guys who don't. I still don't see why everyone can't participate in discussions, though. I guess it's more a matter of whether they want to than whether they can.
___________________________________________________
* Not to mention the entire class of sex workers who come here to chat anonymously, rather than to drum up business.

[genius]

.... but now that I think about it, I can see how "information" could be more important to guys who feel they have to (or want to) pinch pennies, and "discussion" could be more important to guys who don't. .....I know of at least one person where that is not true.

[justlooking]

Oh, yeah, of course, I'm sure there are lots. That's why I said "could be."

[stevana]

i think this could be an interesting to know which clubs you've been able to get at least a handjob. also, feel free to post clubs where you've struck out. in order for it to be a strikeout, you must have gotten a dance and either inquired about extras or made clear overtures to that effect (eg. guiding her hand to you lap) and were completely denied

The premise is totally bogus. I have gotten VHM and have also struck-out according to your definitions at the very same club.

[Axe]

You guys should realize how much it hurts what he wants for this board for an entire segment of the market to feel like it's being chased off of it....Why shouldn't Slinky Bender feel "defensive" about that?

Ah. So thats what this has really been about the last couple of days! Why didnt you all just come out and say so...um...about 100 posts ago?

I'm still a newbie here, so I'm still finding my way around the site when I have time. But if there are discussions regarding high-end activities, I would read them with as much interest as the low/mid stuff. Where are they? I remember a thread by BigMadM a while ago that was really very good, and while he did get some comments about his spending habits (definitely high-end of the scale from my perspective), I didnt think they were the kinds of things that would scare someone off.

[justlooking]

There AREN'T any. That's the problem. Every time one starts, it gets shouted down. Every single fucking time.

And the fact that BMM (a cyber-bud who I like and respect a lot) is "high end" on this board shows how limited this board has become. BMM is strictly mid-range (as he'd be the first to say).

[stevana]

Maybe the absence of posts about specific activities at specific higher end places (e.g., "I went to PEC and this knockout Asian chic [insert pysical description] named Sunny gave me a bbbjtcnqns after some DATY for $XXX all in.") as are common with posts related to lower end places is a function of higher end places being "higher mileage" targets for LE? I mean if a place like the deli/pizza joint got busted would it be front page news as was the case with Scores? I don't think so. Maybe those who frequent the higher end places think it best to be a bit more discreet?

[brykster]

I guess probably you don't care much about discussion, so it doesn't matter to you.

well, of course i do. many times throughout this dialogue, you have misinterpreted attempts at discussion as challenges. i understand that you are passionate and feel you are set apart in this environment; but really, not everything i say is an attack. this whole thing began with me feeling insecure that there was a facet of this hobby i was missing out on. do i want to pay a lot of money for my experiences? no i don't...but really, i do not begrudge you yours. part of me wishes i had the resources to bang 10's in a comfy environment (part of me likes keeping it real fuckin' sleazy); but really, i'm not interested in making you or anyone else uncomfortable.

[justlooking]

Maybe the absence of posts about specific activities at specific higher end places (e.g., "I went to PEC and this knockout Asian chic [insert pysical description] named Sunny gave me a bbbjtcnqns after some DATY for $XXX all in.") as are common with posts related to lower end places is a function of higher end places being "higher mileage" targets for LE? I mean if a place like the deli/pizza joint got busted would it be front page news as was the case with Scores? I don't think so. Maybe those who frequent the higher end places think it best to be a bit more discreet?

I agree that most people who get VHM at "upscale" places (me very much included) don't think it's a good idea to name specific venues. Although, oddly, I think it's for the opposite reason you do. The "upscale" places can get away with making arrangements that shield them from LE attention because they're not "open and notorious" sex shops: to the contrary, most people think there's no sex available there. So LE doesn't take any public shit for looking the other way, since nobody thinks they are looking the other way. OTOH, "dives" just scream out "sex shop," so locals expect enforcement.

If people started publicizing specifics too much about particular "upscale" clubs, though, this deal might be off.

[justlooking]

well, of course i do. many times throughout this dialogue, you have misinterpreted attempts at discussion as challenges. i understand that you are passionate and feel you are set apart in this environment; but really, not everything i say is an attack. this whole thing began with me feeling insecure that there was a facet of this hobby i was missing out on. do i want to pay a lot of money for my experiences? no i don't...but really, i do not begrudge you yours. part of me wishes i had the resources to bang 10's in a comfy environment (part of me likes keeping it real fuckin' sleazy); but really, i'm not interested in making you or anyone else uncomfortable.

OK, sorry, then. (Really.)

But -- I hope this doesn't sound too presumptuous, and that you won't take it wrong if it does -- when you're being insecure, you're particularly apt to say things that have that precise effect when you don't intend it. (Believe me, I know that from experience.) So -- especially on a public board like this, where we mainly don't know each other and are communicating solely by means of the written word with no gestures or facial expressions to modify our words -- you really have to be careful.

(Sorry: that really did sound presumptuous.)

[brykster]

The "upscale" places can get away with making arrangements that shield them from LE attention because they're not "open and notorious" sex shops: to the contrary, most people think there's no sex available there.

i can attest to that one.

[brykster]

in the interests of starting a dialague, i have wondered has anyone gotten VHM at Lace in Rockland. is it possible? what would it cost?

also, in upscale rooms, are all of the dancers "available" to some extent or are there those who won't do anything? i'm assuming it's the same as dives where some do and some don't.

[brykster]

OK, sorry, then. (Really.)

But -- I hope this doesn't sound too presumptuous, and that you won't take it wrong if it does -- when you're being insecure, you're particularly apt to say things that have that precise effect when you don't intend it. (Believe me, I know that from experience.) So -- especially on a public board like this, where we mainly don't know each other and are communicating solely by means of the written word with no gestures or facial expressions to modify our words -- you really have to be careful.

(Sorry: that really did sound presumptuous.)

absolutely, believe me, i have felt very much on the defensive these past few days and i'm sure it has shown through. there have been moments where i've hit the enter and immediately afterward said to myself "what the F am i doing here!!?? it's not a very secure feeling to have the board administrator against you and partially blaming you for ruining the board and killing his advertising revenue....though i know Slinky wouldn't censor me or anyone else for having a disparate opinion.

[Axe]

Ok, which is it that really prevents high-end discussions here?


[1] Their tendency to be shouted down? (I honestly dont remember that happening with BMM's thread, but I'll take JL at his word on this one.)

Or

[2] The need for the customers in that end of the scale to be discreet?


Lets say this site is suddenly filled with nothing but high-end players and the problem in [1] vanishes.

Even then we would STILL have no high-end discussions because of [2]!!


Whats the way out of this dilemma?

[justlooking]

GROUP HUG

[stevana]

I agree that most people who get VHM at "upscale" places (me very much included) don't think it's a good idea to name specific venues. Although, oddly, I think it's for the opposite reason you do. The "upscale" places can get away with making arrangements that shield them from LE attention because they're not "open and notorious" sex shops: to the contrary, most people think there's no sex available there. So LE doesn't take any public shit for looking the other way, since nobody thinks they are looking the other way. OTOH, "dives" just scream out "sex shop," so locals expect enforcement.

If people started publicizing specifics too much about particular "upscale" clubs, though, this deal might be off.

Actually, I think we agree for the same reasons but I don't need to quibble. The point is, and I think you will agree, that "open and notorious" is not the current situation and that it best be left that way.

[justlooking]

Yep. (Which doesn't mean we can't talk about it generally.)

[justlooking]

also, in upscale rooms, are all of the dancers "available" to some extent or are there those who won't do anything? i'm assuming it's the same as dives where some do and some don't.

As you think:

Some do, some don't.

[justlooking]

Ok, which is it that really prevents high-end discussions here?


[1] Their tendency to be shouted down? (I honestly dont remember that happening with BMM's thread, but I'll take JL at his word on this one.)

Or

[2] The need for the customers in that end of the scale to be discreet?


Lets say this site is suddenly filled with nothing but high-end players and the problem in [1] vanishes.

Even then we would STILL have no high-end discussions because of [2]!!


Whats the way out of this dilemma?

You make a very good point about why that kind of discussion might be limited in any event. (And I have to admit that the "High End Room" forum never took off here.)

BUT it can't help that, whenever people try to start "high end" discussions, they get shouted down. So those are all discussions we might have had, but didn't.

As for BMM, you're right that he didn't get shouted down. But, as I said above, what BMM does isn't really "high end". Any individual session he has is something that most guys who post on this board can afford/would be willing to pay for. It's only his volume that puts him beyond a lot of guys' level here. So he doesn't get much resentment, because he's not talking about stuff that, on a session-by-session basis, most guys here feel they couldn't/don't do.

[stevana]

Ok, which is it that really prevents high-end discussions here?


[1] Their tendency to be shouted down? (I honestly dont remember that happening with BMM's thread, but I'll take JL at his word on this one.)

Or

[2] The need for the customers in that end of the scale to be discreet?


Lets say this site is suddenly filled with nothing but high-end players and the problem in [1] vanishes.

Even then we would STILL have no high-end discussions because of [2]!!


Whats the way out of this dilemma?

Both, I think. Maybe there isn't a way out - two different cultures - no intent to be judgmental with respect to either.

[stevana]

As you think:

Some do, some don't.

Exactly. See #141.

[Axe]

Yep. (Which doesn't mean we can't talk about it generally.)


I think right here JL finds the way out of the dilemma.

The problem then becomes the necessary lack of specificity in the discussion:

"I cant tell you where, when, who, or how, but wow did I get a great BJ last night..."


sheeeez.

[justlooking]

You can talk about strategies, stuff like that.

[thezoos]

to get back to the on topic stuff

and to mention the LI places
If i dont mention i can't confirm it, that means i'm confirming it


XD Babylon: HM (HJ)
Show World Bab : VHM (FS reported but cant confirm)
CB or whatever they are calling it these days : VHM (FS)
Tunnell of Love Babylon : VHMBS (But Skanky)
Gaslite: HM (HJ)
Stone Hedge : VHMTO (Take out) HM (HJ) inside (I can't personally confirm)
Cafe Royale: LM
Teasers : VHM (BJ)

TZ

[stevana]

You can talk about strategies, stuff like that.

Exactly.

[stevana]

to get back to the on topic stuff

My apologies?

[stevana]

to get back to the on topic stuff

and to mention the LI places
If i dont mention i can't confirm it, that means i'm confirming it


XD Babylon: HM (HJ)
Show World Bab : VHM (FS reported but cant confirm)
CB or whatever they are calling it these days : VHM (FS)
Tunnell of Love Babylon : VHMBS (But Skanky)
Gaslite: HM (HJ)
Stone Hedge : VHMTO (Take out) HM (HJ) inside (I can't personally confirm)
Cafe Royale: LM
Teasers : VHM (BJ)

TZ

To actually stay on topic as the topic was defined by the person who started this thread your list would not include any place where you ever "struck-out" as initially defined regardless of your experiences at that place otherwise at other times or with other girls. Is that the case with respect to your list?

[thezoos]

To actually stay on topic as the topic was defined by the person who started this thread your list would not include any place where you ever "struck-out" as initially defined regardless of your experiences at that place otherwise at other times or with other girls. Is that the case with respect to your list?

Oh no. I have struck out so to speak at teasers, Gaslite, ... just about every place has a few stinkers.

the places i listed have about a 70% or better chance at least of a HR.

IMHO

TZ

[stevana]

Thanks, Zoos. Very interesting assessment given that many of the places you mention seem to have the general image, at least in my mind given posts not only in this thread but elsewhere on this board, of places of nearly sure thing VHM. I suspect that your 70%, as opposed to 100%, experience is not at all related to your ability to obtain but, rather, might be the norm. In my experience, at least the same percentage applies to the high end places I have visited on my very first visit after doing some interviewing. If one becomes known and one gets to know people (not only the dancers) the percentage that one might experience at high end places seems to be higher than 70%.

[justlooking]

If you know the right people, it's 100%.

(Takes some of the fun out of it, though.)

[stevana]

That's why I like to keep exploring - the thrill of the chase. Even where I know 100% VHM is available given who is on duty, I often try to find someone else.

[masquerade]

in the interests of starting a dialague, i have wondered has anyone gotten VHM at Lace in Rockland. is it possible? what would it cost?

also, in upscale rooms, are all of the dancers "available" to some extent or are there those who won't do anything? i'm assuming it's the same as dives where some do and some don't.

Yeah, there are some who do and some who don't. As JL mentioned somewhere else - may not have been in this thread, I don't remember - they key to not wasting your money on girls who don't offer extras at a high end places is to get on good terms with the host or manager. If you tip them well and they see you come in on a regular basis, they'll usually just do all the work for you as far as finding the right girl. The managers at these places usually have their own little team of strippers who they like to work with, not only because they know these girls will give the customers what they want, but also because they give the managers a high percentage of their tips at the end of the night. A good manager will also have a sense of which girl to pair with which customer so that the guy will have the best experience possible. Some customers have a definite physical type, others might be looking for a girl with a specific kind of attitude, etc....

It has been my experience that a lot of strippers at high end places will tell a customer anything to get him into the VIP room, and since the dances on the floor are not at all indicative of what goes on behind closed doors, I think there's a huge possibility of wasted money (lots of wasted money) if you don't understand how these places work.

[stevana]

Yeah, there are some who do and some who don't. As JL mentioned somewhere else - may not have been in this thread, I don't remember - they key to not wasting your money on girls who don't offer extras at a high end places is to get on good terms with the host or manager. If you tip them well and they see you come in on a regular basis, they'll usually just do all the work for you as far as finding the right girl. The managers at these places usually have their own little team of strippers who they like to work with, not only because they know these girls will give the customers what they want, but also because they give the managers a high percentage of their tips at the end of the night. A good manager will also have a sense of which girl to pair with which customer so that the guy will have the best experience possible. Some customers have a definite physical type, others might be looking for a girl with a specific kind of attitude, etc....

It has been my experience that a lot of strippers at high end places will tell a customer anything to get him into the VIP room, and since the dances on the floor are not at all indicative of what goes on behind closed doors, I think there's a huge possibility of wasted money (lots of wasted money) if you don't understand how these places work.

Exactly. Perhaps it is this aspect of the high end venues that those who doubt them do not know or understand.

[justlooking]

That's why I like to keep exploring - the thrill of the chase. Even where I know 100% VHM is available given who is on duty, I often try to find someone else.

I'm talking about something different. As M just said (and Thorn said a few pages ago), I'm talking about knowing management, who will make sure you get what you want, with someone you've never been with before if that's what you prefer that night.

Still loses the thrill of the chase -- but also loses the pain of losing money.

[stevana]

I understand, JL. And if the chase isn't going well, I will use the resources that you mention. (Seems we agree quite a bit but it it isn't always apparent at first glance - maybe because having to type-out every thought to make sure we are 100% clear is a fucking pain in the ass. Perhaps we will meet someday and discussion will be more complete.)

[masquerade]

Something else I think is sort of important:

I was often times counseled by management NOT to engage in any extras with customers I wasn't specifically referred to by a host. They got their fair share of undercover vice guys in there, too - and if the club didn't know a VIP customer, they preferred we treat them as innocently as possible to avoid any problems.

Kind of adds another obstacle to that whole thrill of the hunt thing.

[stevana]

Something else I think is sort of important:

I was often times counseled by management NOT to engage in any extras with customers I wasn't specifically referred to by a host. They got their fair share of undercover vice guys in there, too - and if the club didn't know a VIP customer, they preferred we treat them as innocently as possible to avoid any problems.

Kind of adds another obstacle to that whole thrill of the hunt thing.

That is why one needs to do the necessary work so that they can learn that "There is no sex..." is bullshit.

[brykster]

To actually stay on topic as the topic was defined by the person who started this thread your list would not include any place where you ever "struck-out" as initially defined regardless of your experiences at that place otherwise at other times or with other girls. Is that the case with respect to your list?

you have my permission to take this thread wherever you like. do what makes sense to you. as i've said my ONLY reason for starting the thread was to see how many guys on these boards have ever played at the upscale level. in the words of JL "some do, some don't."

[Slinky Bender]

BUT it can't help that, whenever people try to start "high end" discussions, they get shouted down. So those are all discussions we might have had, but didn't.

a) There are obviously a lot more guys period who go to SC's where they spend $100 in an evening than guys who spend $1500 in an evening.

b) The percentage of guys who spend $1500 in an evening who spend a lot of time posting on PMB's is less than the percentage of guys who spend $100.

c) The history of this PMB is that any time anyone tries to start a discussion of anything in the middle end (pronounced :"ultra high end" to 98% of the posters here), the response isn't a discussion, it is simply "anyone who pays more than $x for $x" is a moron or some derivative.

So, if you take something which at the start is on the rare side, and then put large obstacles in the way of finding it...... think of finding a needle in a haystack..... blindfolded.

[Thorn]

Maybe we need a new rating system. VHM = FS, HM = BJ, MM = HJ to clear up any confusion. Just a thought, but I know we all want to keep from being teased and ripped off by clubs that offer nothing but ZeroM LD's.

Anywho let me add from my travels through Bucks County.

Ball Park (Croydon, PA - MM easy, HM takes some work, but there are many postings saying this club gets wild at night, take out, but that may be outdated info)

My last outing there [a week or so ago], which was also my first, I had take out that went no further than the parking lot. BBBJ. FS was available, but I didn't have a condom with me so I passed.

Red Raven (Bristol, PA - takes some work, some have said easy at least for MM)

RR is on my "to do" list.

Sugar and Spice (Morrisville, PA - takes some work, ymmv)

First I am hearing of this one. Any more info?

Club Risque has a location in Bucks and in Phila. You may have heard the one in Phila is more HM, but I can't speak from experience.

Also on the "to do" list.

[Thorn]

This is absolutely correct. Key.

The only addendum I'd make (which is obvious, and I know Thorn knows it but just didn't bother to state it in this thread) is that you cultivate strippers for out-of-club stuff, and management for in-club stuff. The two are completely different.

The thread was about in house extras.

Generally I agree. Though I have had the rare occasion, like Show Offs in S.O., where knowing someone in management got me a point toward someone who was known to see people outside of the club. Most of the time I have gotten info of that nature from other club folk it was either other dancers [I am sure you have had dancer "friends" turn you on or hook you up with friends of theirs... it isn't an everyday thing, but it happens], or maybe a bartender.

It is rare though. And if it does happen it is better to let them bring that sort of info to you, rather than to go looking for it from them.

[Thorn]

I remember when there were enough good clubs in Manhattan to have a rotation.

[sob]

President Giuliani...

The whole country will go 'strip-club' dry.

Quality of Life Crime, don'tcha know. :)

[Thorn]

What exactly is considered VHM in a SC? How far do you have to get for it to be considerd VHM?

My guess, and a guess is what it would be, is some form of sexual release.

So, at the very lowest end you'd have "cum in pants" stick shifting [ugh], lapping to completion [double ugh] and culminate at the very highest end with some form of FS.

[Thorn]

For purposes of this thread ONLY, brykster has defined it as hand job or better.

OK... I must have missed the memo. :)

Got it. HJ or better. No stick shifting, or LDTC. :)

[brykster]

My guess, and a guess is what it would be, is some form of sexual release.

So, at the very lowest end you'd have "cum in pants" stick shifting [ugh], lapping to completion [double ugh] and culminate at the very highest end with some form of FS.

that was sort of my thinking; although i never considered stick shifting or LDTC because neither of those have worked for me in years.

[justlooking]

The thread was about in house extras.

Generally I agree. Though I have had the rare occasion, like Show Offs in S.O., where knowing someone in management got me a point toward someone who was known to see people outside of the club. Most of the time I have gotten info of that nature from other club folk it was either other dancers [I am sure you have had dancer "friends" turn you on or hook you up with friends of theirs... it isn't an everyday thing, but it happens], or maybe a bartender.

It is rare though. And if it does happen it is better to let them bring that sort of info to you, rather than to go looking for it from them.

Of course, that's the kind of out-of-club stuff I'm (personally) not interested in. It's just like in-club, but out of the club.* Out of club, I'm more interested in something more, um, "personal." Mostly with women who ordinarily don't do that sort of thing.
_________________________________________________
* To me, the "assembly-line" aspect of in-club service is worthwhile cuz it's so convenient. By the time I'm going to the trouble of meeting someone outside the club, I want more than that.

[fortydog]

Yeah, there are some who do and some who don't. As JL mentioned somewhere else - may not have been in this thread, I don't remember - they key to not wasting your money on girls who don't offer extras at a high end places is to get on good terms with the host or manager. If you tip them well and they see you come in on a regular basis, they'll usually just do all the work for you as far as finding the right girl. The managers at these places usually have their own little team of strippers who they like to work with, not only because they know these girls will give the customers what they want, but also because they give the managers a high percentage of their tips at the end of the night. A good manager will also have a sense of which girl to pair with which customer so that the guy will have the best experience possible. Some customers have a definite physical type, others might be looking for a girl with a specific kind of attitude, etc....

It has been my experience that a lot of strippers at high end places will tell a customer anything to get him into the VIP room, and since the dances on the floor are not at all indicative of what goes on behind closed doors, I think there's a huge possibility of wasted money (lots of wasted money) if you don't understand how these places work.


So basically the bouncers/managment of the high end clubs are pimps?

[justlooking]

Basically.

[justlooking]

You've got a problem with that?

[Axe]

Thorn:

Sugar and Spice is a local dive with strippers being a mix of some who have been dancing there literally for years with a few newbies thrown in for good measure. Looks are typically in the average to low range, with an ocassional stunner.

HJ and BJ in the dance room can happen here...mostly from afternoon visits by regs. You cant count on it every time, though. A couple things work against you on extras in the club. One is they usually have a shortage of girls during the day, so your lap dance partner can be limited in the amount of time she can spend with you before she has to go back on stage. The other is that a new customer face wont get much action - in or out of the club. Of course, there can be exceptions. But, even when you're known to the bartender and other regs, the rotation of so many newbies in the place means many of the strippers on whatever shift you go on still wont know you. I've had some of these strippers flat out turn me down for a lap dance.

The guys who do well here, both in and out of the club, are the regs. I was one for a while.

Still, it might be worth adding to your rotation if its not out too far out of the way for you.

[masquerade]

So basically the bouncers/managment of the high end clubs are pimps?

basically? more like literally. The only difference is we don't live with him and he's not allowed to bitch slap us.

[fortydog]

You've got a problem with that?

No, not really. It's just that I never realized it before. Do you think that the girls that work these places know that also? That's a stupid question, because many girls that are pimped out would never admit to it, or even realize it.

It appears to me that most guys never put two and two together, like myself, and understand the relationship of the girls to the house. Perhaps the dislike shown for high end places on this board is due to this missing piece of the puzzle.

My SOP at a high end place has been to try my hardest to avoid the bouncers, hosts, and other staff looking for tips. I see now that they are the ones running the show, so to say, and that if better mileage is to be had I better address these folk in the proper way.

[justlooking]

The girls who put out know exactly what they're doing.

The girls who don't either don't know what's going on, or else they call the managers "pimps" as if that's a meaningful insult.

You're right that you ought to be making nice to them.

[justlooking]

The girls who put out know exactly what they're doing.

I mean, how could they not?

They know the managers/bouncers steer them customers. They know they're supposed to provide certain services to these customers. They know that they have to tip out the managers/bouncers liberally (I assume it's pretty much an understood set percentage.) They know that if they don't do this they won't be allowed to do extras (and hence make "extras" money).

What would they be not knowing?

[justlooking]

The girls who don't either don't know what's going on, or else they call the managers "pimps" as if that's a meaningful insult.

I want to expand on this, because it's sort of interesting.

There really are girls in these clubs who don't know what's otherwise available there through management. I can think of plenty of instances where girls whom I "dated" but who were clean in the club told me I was lying when I told them I could buy blow jobs in their club. They really didn't know.

But I think -- and M can confirm or correct this -- that most of the "clean" girls know about management's practices and the "management team", and resent the shit out of them.

[justlooking]

Here's an interesting Slinky Bender post from a few years ago:

http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?p=196648&highlight=newbie#post196648

[masquerade]

I want to expand on this, because it's sort of interesting.

There really are girls in these clubs who don't know what's otherwise available there through management. I can think of plenty of instances where girls whom I "dated" but who were clean in the club told me I was lying when I told them I could buy blow jobs in their club. They really didn't know.

But I think -- and M can confirm or correct this -- that most of the "clean" girls know about management's practices and the "management team", and resent the shit out of them.

I think that just about all the girls in the club understand how this works, and yes, resent the hell out of the cream team if they aren't a part of it. Hell, I used to as well - until I figured out how to join up.

[masquerade]

Here's an interesting Slinky Bender post from a few years ago:

http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?p=196648&highlight=newbie#post196648

wow, classic.

[letsgetstarted]

Cheeks (pemberton - easy, but bj's and FS are pretty much a thing of the past here unless off campus)
Playhouse (burlington - easy owned by the same people who own Cheeks... same rules.)
Volcanic Eruptions (egg harbor - still easy.)
Delilah's Den (Toms River - takes alot of work- best for off campus)
Delilah's Den (South Amboy - takes alot of work-off campus)
Delilah's Den (Manville - takes alot of work-off campus)
Go-Go Rama (lawrence harbor - takes alot of work-easier in the VIP but too expensive. Off campus)
VIPs [the old club-16] (west orange - easy, bj's YMMV in the VIP)
Players (hackensack - still easy)
Hitching Post (P-town - not as easy as it use to be, but still available)
Heartbreakers (bloomfield - takes a little work now days - off campus is readily available)
Titillations (bloomfield - takes some work)
Torpedos (bound brook - takes some work)
Ooh La-La (bound brook- takes alot of work)
Liquid Assets (totally dropped from my rotation)
Hustler Club (NYC - easy with some $$$ and the VIP)
Erotic cafe (pensauken - easy)
Bottoms Up (irvington - too easy)
Fantasies (keyport - easy off campus available)
Showplace (dover - not as easy as it use to be. Depends on what bouncer is working and which booth you get)
Bare Exposure (atlantic city - easy in the VIP with $$$ but not cheap)
Bourbon Street (sayerville - off campus)
Hott 22 (union -no play at all, not even off campus)
Shooters (union - limited, but some off campus)
Wedgewood (broadway - No LD's, no extras - limited off campus with right dancer)
CR Fanny's (Easton, PA - very limited and highly YMMV, but off campus available to select few... that means $$$)
Club Risque (Bristol - I've heard different but I had no luck)
After Dark (Newark - takes a little work, no LD room, but you can get a handie at the bar with the right dancer)
Don Costa (great take out, but very difficult on site)
Nardone's (Elizabeth - difficult on site but good take out)
Stilletto (Carlstadt - very difficult but off campus for big $$$)
Thorn, a few questions if you don't mind.

Erotic Cafe has HJ and more behind the curtain?
Same question for: Fantasies.

And you have done take out easily from Bourbon Street?

[justlooking]

cream team

Heh. Heheh. Heheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh.

[justlooking]

I think that just about all the girls in the club understand how this works, and yes, resent the hell out of the cream team if they aren't a part of it. Hell, I used to as well - until I figured out how to join up.

How DO you join up?

[letsgetstarted]

My last outing there [a week or so ago], which was also my first, I had take out that went no further than the parking lot. BBBJ. FS was available, but I didn't have a condom with me so I passed.



RR is on my "to do" list.



First I am hearing of this one. Any more info?



Also on the "to do" list.
I haven't done a lappie at risque in Philly for a few years, but they stunk back then.

[Axe]

How DO you join up?

You beat me to it, JL.

I'm sure the answer is going to be good reading...

[Thorn]

To me, the "assembly-line" aspect of in-club service is worthwhile cuz it's so convenient. By the time I'm going to the trouble of meeting someone outside the club, I want more than that.

Agreed.

I had backed off of that for a time, being as busy as I was near the end of my run, but now that I am sort of retired [unless that thing I mentioned back channel goes through] I have been making inroads in that direction again.

It is a bit more work, but decidedly worth it when it all goes right.

[Thorn]

basically? more like literally. The only difference is we don't live with him and he's not allowed to bitch slap us.


Don't get on the lowly bouncers [said the former lowly bouncer].

The thing about having them on your side isn't so much that they will hook you up, as they are decidedly the low end of the food chain in that regard [said so myself in my order of who to get to know... bartenders first, because they know everything because they see everything and they hook you into management. The managers next, because they run the show. The DJ's, because they have slept with half the dancers there and are privy to any "drama" issues you might have to know about as well as who is the best, ummmm, lay. Bouncers last because while they probably won't get you hooked up, they can impede your progress. A friendly bouncer knows when to get out of the way. :)

[Thorn]

No, not really. It's just that I never realized it before. Do you think that the girls that work these places know that also? That's a stupid question, because many girls that are pimped out would never admit to it, or even realize it.

Of course they know that. It is why they tip out higher than the other dancers. To curry favor with management pointing clients with $$$ to spend who are looking for dancers who provide extras. And to keep them safe for providing those extras when, occasionally, a "clean" dancer finds out about it and complains to management [now they are the ones who are naive, complaining to a guy or gal who is getting what amounts to a cut of the action, about the action].

It appears to me that most guys never put two and two together, like myself, and understand the relationship of the girls to the house. Perhaps the dislike shown for high end places on this board is due to this missing piece of the puzzle.

Could be, but that is to the advantage of every guy who is aware.

My SOP at a high end place has been to try my hardest to avoid the bouncers, hosts, and other staff looking for tips. I see now that they are the ones running the show, so to say, and that if better mileage is to be had I better address these folk in the proper way.

Damn skippy.

[h_latimer]

President Giuliani...

The whole country will go 'strip-club' dry.

Quality of Life Crime, don'tcha know. :)

Fortunately, he'll never be elected

[Thorn]

Thorn, a few questions if you don't mind.

Erotic Cafe has HJ and more behind the curtain?

Last time I was there was about 8 weeks ago. I feel like a putz for not remembering the dancers name, but a handie was readily negotionated BEFORE going to meet the wizard [stepping behind the curtain].

Same question for: Fantasies.

And you have done take out easily from Bourbon Street?

Fantasies may have been a fluke. I am not a regular there and hit it early afternoon, around 2pm on a Thursday if memory serves. That info is about 4 months old [moved from eastern to western NJ, and changed the clubs in my rotation. I hit Hunterdon, Warren, Sussex, Somerset, North Hampton and Bucks regularly now. The once very other week or so Union, Hudson, Essex, Middlesex, Mercer, Lehigh. Once a month NYC, Monmouth, Philadelphia, Montgomery, Chester, Nassau. Every once in a great moon, Bridgeport, Orange or Rockland, NY, Chester or Berks, PA or Delaware.

I like to drive. It calms me. So the clubs become pit stops on my longer drives.

[Axe]

I hit Hunterdon, Warren, Sussex, Somerset, North Hampton and Bucks regularly now. The once very other week or so Union, Hudson, Essex, Middlesex, Mercer, Lehigh. Once a month NYC, Monmouth, Philadelphia, Montgomery, Chester, Nassau. Every once in a great moon, Bridgeport, Orange or Rockland, NY, Chester or Berks, PA or Delaware.

Then you may want to try these out when you're in and around Philadelphia:

Cheerleaders, South Philly (and Glouchester, NJ) - Never been to the one in Jersey. In Philly, its a sports bar with a large (I'm talkin' HUGE) lap dance room. Very comfy. HJ and takeout.

Charlies Dream, South Philly - South Philly sleaze. Nude and BYOB. Used to have a girl-girl show every night at 10/11 pm. Booths and separate rooms for lap dances which are nude and - get this - YOU can get nude too. HJ and takeout, but takes work.

Dangerous Curves, NE Philly - Futile attempt at being high end, but can be interesting. Takeout, but takes work.

Daydreams, Philly - All nude, BYOB strip club with lots of (naked) strippers walking around. Lap dance room uses living room sofas (or it did last time I was there). Never got any action, but I didnt go there as much as I should have.


These used to be in my rotation, but I havent been to any of them in a while. Be great to get a reliable report on them.

[fortydog]

.....
Damn skippy.

What does that mean???

[chase4u]

Runway 69 in queens = rip, take out with every girl except Secret Goldfingers= take out with most, 40 percent of the good looking girls CR Rivera club, being known helps with take out since Private CR is not worth it to me anymore, but i had 30 to 40% of the girls here . Scandals / Cityscape being known by the bouncers and managemet helps . Rouge/ honeys / G-2000 = take out only The mainstream clubs in manhatten PEC / Tens / Hustler , i knew a dancer or mgmt to hook me up, a tip . please take care of the guys who lead you to the lap dance and CR rooms, i always gice at least 20 to 40 bucks to them as atip and have not gotten jerked yet, also guys look the part, dont come like you broke and looking for it, just relax and i hate to say , if you look good , you get more and if you got money and look, you get the cream of the crop easier.

[fortydog]

Ignore my last post...figured it out.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=skippy

[towntap]

Last time I was there was about 8 weeks ago. I feel like a putz for not remembering the dancers name, but a handie was readily negotionated BEFORE going to meet the wizard [stepping behind the curtain].

So Thorn what was the damages? house / girl

I pass by about once a month, I have not been in there in about 8 months
~town

[louieb]

I have gotten F/S & BJ at both Playhouse & Cheeks. If you have a rapport with any of the dancers it should be able to be worked out.

[Slinky Bender]

Here's an interesting Slinky Bender post from a few years ago:

http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?p=196648&highlight=newbie#post196648

Whatever happened to that poor, deluded Danielle anyway?

[masquerade]

Whatever happened to that poor, deluded Danielle anyway?

I think she was eaten by the "so... can I get your number?" thread.

[james_b]

After Dark (Newark - takes a little work, no LD room, but you can get a handie at the bar with the right dancer)

I think Newark doesn't allow any LD's so this is all on the menu in Newark. I've seen the same at Watch a Go Go which is owned by BU. Not complaining, sometimes I'm just going to chill, drink a few cold ones, and catch some groping and a handie with a cutie. Any more recommendations on these lines in Newark or elsewhere? I don't think we need a new thread just for this topic. LM at the Bar?

[justlooking]

Whatever happened to that poor, deluded Danielle anyway?

It's so said watching a man beg for it.

[letsgetstarted]

I have gotten F/S & BJ at both Playhouse & Cheeks. If you have a rapport with any of the dancers it should be able to be worked out.

Is this recently? Cheeks got busted a while back and things cooled off at both bars. Perhaps things are going back to normal.

[letsgetstarted]

Untouchables in Keansburgh (if it's not exactly in Keansburgh, it's probably within 500 yards of the town). HJ in the LD room, but only with the right dancer.

[fortydog]

a) You are right
b) you are right because this is what works for you.

In other words, you are enitriely entitled to decide where on the risk/reward spectrum you want to place yourself. But what happens on this board constantly is guys not only trying to decide for other guys where they should be on that spectrum, but berating them for their choices, and misrepresenting facts about the spectrum to enhance the concept that their comfort zone on that spectrum is "the only place to be".

But a counter point: how much would you pay for a raffle ticket where the prize was a lime green leisure suit? Even if the chances of winning were one in 5 rather than 1 in 100, if you don't want the prize it doesn't matter what the odds are. So, if you go to lowere end places where the risk is low, but the payoff, if you get it, is worth zero, you are actually doing worse odds wise. As such, if a guy has no interest in the strippers who inhabit any place, whether very low end, low end, middle end, whatever, it is not a "good bet" to go to those places anyway because his odds of losing are less, because his odds of "losing" are 100% because there is no winning!!!!!!!

In other words, if you want lobster, you have to go where they serve lobster, even if the place is always packed and you rarely get in. If you go to MacDonalds, you will always get in, but your chances of getting lobster are flat zero, because MacDonalds never serves lobster. Now, what some guys will say is the moral equivalent of "well, MacDonalds is just as good as lobster" or "I can afford lobster if I want it, but I choose to eat at MacDonalds". But it still doesn't make MacDonalds into lobster, and it doesn't make MacDonalds just as good as lobster for guys who really want lobster.

And also, for the guys who say that MacDonalds is just as good as lobster (and with eyes open, there are PLENTY of them whether they choose to admit it or not), put down the lobster and the MacDonalds in front of them and tell them to pick which one they want for free..... how many do you think will pick the MacDonalds?

Sorry about the late reply to this Slinky, but your logic is right on the money here, but the problem I see is that if you choose to go to the fancy resturant and get lobster, wait for a table, tip the matradee, have a martini, eat some appitizers, choose your lobster from the tank, and are then are shocked when the waitress lets you know that the lobsters are just for show and that you cant have any to eat. That's where the contempt for the high end clubs stems. But, as was explined already by JL, Thorn, and others, there are ways to get your lobster that aren't spelled out on the menu.

now i'm hungry :\

[madvex]

here's more of my 2 cents - now up to 10:

1) As I said in my first post in this thread - the thread itself is pretty useless other than defining where sum1 has received VHM which in and of itswelf tells nothing. the YMMV factor overrides the entire purpose of a thread like this.

2) The tangents regarding high end versus low end and related bashing that occurs... why anyone would bash sum1 else for paying x for x is beyond me. Sure the right to an opinion is always first and foremost, but that kind of bashing serves no purpose and certainly doesn't further discussion or information sharing - it hinders it.

I for one don't really care if i get bashed for paying too much. I probably pay too much all the time. So what? If, in the end, I am satisfied, regardless of the price point, and it's all good with me.. then a simple, fuck you if you think differently.

If your wallet or willingness is not there to pay for play (and pay perhaps more than the next guy), then your opinion on how much was paid is meaningless and not relevant.

Instead of bashing sum1 for paying too much (in YOUR opinion) might it just be better to note what was paid and, even if that's not YOUR preference, allow others who do have similar interests to continue with a conversation that is meaningful and useful in the end?

3) Perhaps instead of the basic list of where we did and did not receive VHM, we should have added a column for price paid for the VHM and the VHM type.
Then we REALLY could have had some bashing fun!! Oh yeh... i.e., "You paid 80$ for a handy there?? Dude, yer f'in crazy man.. you got ripped! How stupid are u?? haha.."

4 = back to #1 above) Either way... listing places such as this is worthless other than to know that VHM HAS been received at some club at some time.. Yep.. and probably in every fucking club we've ever been to! But, what real knowledge is gained when SO MANY factors are involved? YMMV, dancer turnover, drug use/abuse, drunk bitches, etc. etc. ad naseum, make this entire thread a moot point!

Happy Hunting!

[letsgetstarted]

1) As I said in my first post in this thread - the thread itself is pretty useless other than defining where sum1 has received VHM which in and of itswelf tells nothing. the YMMV factor overrides the entire purpose of a thread like this.There are clubs where almost anybody can recieve a HJ and more. That's when YMMV is not apropos.

[bmankretz]

Plotted the places from Bryk, Seeker, and Madvex on a map. Good thread, thanks guys.

http://www.wayfaring.com/maps/show/34612

[louieb]

If it helps, the high mileage that I recieved at cheeks has been recently - within the last month. I expected hj & recieved bbbj/cum on tits & F/S.

[letsgetstarted]

If it helps, the high mileage that I recieved at cheeks has been recently - within the last month. I expected hj & recieved bbbj/cum on tits & F/S.

That's good news. Do you think that that mileage is widespread among the girls?

[fortydog]

Plotted the places from Bryk, Seeker, and Madvex on a map. Good thread, thanks guys.

http://www.wayfaring.com/maps/show/34612

Thanks for the map. That was cool!

[h_latimer]

I have gotten F/S & BJ at both Playhouse & Cheeks. If you have a rapport with any of the dancers it should be able to be worked out.

Hand & job offer at ficha bar near Hempstead border.

[stevana]

What sort of job? I am looking for work.

[masquerade]

Untouchables in Keansburgh (if it's not exactly in Keansburgh, it's probably within 500 yards of the town). HJ in the LD room, but only with the right dancer.

"Untouchables".... how ironic!

[brykster]

here's more of my 2 cents - now up to 10:

1) As I said in my first post in this thread - the thread itself is pretty useless other than defining where sum1 has received VHM which in and of itswelf tells nothing. the YMMV factor overrides the entire purpose of a thread like this.

2) The tangents regarding high end versus low end and related bashing that occurs... why anyone would bash sum1 else for paying x for x is beyond me. Sure the right to an opinion is always first and foremost, but that kind of bashing serves no purpose and certainly doesn't further discussion or information sharing - it hinders it.

think i've explained my reasons for starting the thread ad nauseum so i won't belabor the point except to say the thread was meant to provoke discussion, not to provide useful info. there are plenty of other threads on UG with current info.

as for people bashing high end players for paying too much, i don't think i've seen any of that in this thread. for me, i have no qualms with them (at least not anymore.) however, i do have a problem with guys who go into a "budget" room and blow out the fee structure. that is contributing to inflation and negatively effects everyone which is something this hobby does not need.

as an example, when i first began going to Rah's a dance was 20 dollars and serious extras (BJ, FS) warranted no more than a $10 tip. anyways, word got around, largely from the thread i started on UG and as per my last visit, dances had risen to 35 bucks and some of the girls (the better looking one's) wanted at least 40 to perform these same extras they gladly performed months earlier for 10 bucks. this happened because naive guys went in there and overpayed. it ruined the club for everyone. i would sincerely doubt that any UG member has gotten a dance there in over a year.

the same can also happen in reverse. Dr. Cave tried to raise dance prices to $25, guys voted with their feet and in less than 2 months prices returned to 20...now if only they'd put up curtains....

[masquerade]

however, i do have a problem with guys who go into a "budget" room and blow out the fee structure. that is contributing to inflation and negatively effects everyone which is something this hobby does not need.



"Everyone"? What about the strippers? I think if the price of lap dances went up slightly amongst all the girls working at the same club, people would just begrudgingly pay the inflated amount - wouldn't they? Or do you think the girls would actually sell less dances?

[brykster]

"Everyone"? What about the strippers? I think if the price of lap dances went up slightly amongst all the girls working at the same club, people would just begrudgingly pay the inflated amount - wouldn't they? Or do you think the girls would actually sell less dances?

read the last paragraph of my previous post...not always. and honestly, i don't think the girls are due a raise. i think 20 to 100 bucks (depending on extras) tax free for 5 minutes work is just fine.

obviously, i'm going to be more concerned for the guys than the dancers. that's just human nature. but hey, if the girl is worth it, she can go upscale and then guys like JL will pay her upwards of a grand for her services.

the fact of the matter is most guys don't make enough money to pay any more than they are already paying and i think the current situation at Rah's and what happened at Dr. Cave are prime examples.

there are sooo many clubs out there, that there will always be some place cheaper...and that's where budget conscious guys will go. plus, not to mention, one can always go the SW angle (20 bucks all inclusive for VHM...not bad). also, from what i see, most places that raise their prices do not turn the extra over to the dancers; but instead greedely fatten the owners pocket.

[justlooking]

but hey, if the girl is worth it, she can go upscale and then guys like JL will pay her upwards of a grand for her services.

Just to be clear, I don't pay the girls upwards of a grand for their services.

Out of the $1000 I pay, $400 is a room fee that goes to the club. $100 is a tip for the manager. $500 is a tip to the girl (they usually get more, I think, but since I also go the underground I know how to negotiate). But she doesn't even get to keep all that $500. Part of it she has to "tip out" to the manager herself.

It's still a very good take. But it's not what you're saying.

[justlooking]

"Everyone"? What about the strippers? I think if the price of lap dances went up slightly amongst all the girls working at the same club, people would just begrudgingly pay the inflated amount - wouldn't they? Or do you think the girls would actually sell less dances?

When the standard dance fee in New York increased from $10 to $20 in mid-1998, club attendance definitely went down and guys definitely started buying fewer dances. Although attendance bounced back, I'm not sure guys ever returned to buying the same number of dances as they had previously.

Runs of between five and 10 dances used to be common. Do many guys do that anymore?

[justlooking]

Out of the $1000 I pay, $400 is a room fee that goes to the club.

The girls don't get a cut of this, do they, M?

[justlooking]

Runs of between five and 10 dances used to be common.

Also, I get the feeling that, at $10, guys used to be much less selective in buying and turning down dances.

[justlooking]

"Everyone"? What about the strippers? I think if the price of lap dances went up slightly amongst all the girls working at the same club, people would just begrudgingly pay the inflated amount - wouldn't they? Or do you think the girls would actually sell less dances?

Also, just to echo brykster, when the clubs in New York raised the dance fees in New York in 1998, they concommitantly raised the shift fees. So even if the strippers realized higher amounts of tips -- which they well may not have -- they still might not have had more income.

[stevana]

When the standard dance fee in New York increased from $10 to $20 in mid-1998, club attendance definitely went down and guys definitely started buying fewer dances. Although attendance bounced back, I'm not sure guys ever returned to buying the same number of dances as they had previously.

Runs of between five and 10 dances used to be common. Do many guys do that anymore?

Agreed as to my activity. I think at $20 I have been getting less than half as many as I did at $10. Perhaps less than half because the room fees have increased quite a bit.

[stevana]

Also, I get the feeling that, at $10, guys used to be much less selective in buying and turning down dances.

For sure for me.

[justlooking]

Agreed as to my activity. I think at $20 I have been getting less than half as many as I did at $10. Perhaps less than half because the room fees have increased quite a bit.

Yeah, I would say the EXACT same thing.

At $20, I get less than half the number of dances I used to get at $10.

(As for the increase in the room fees, I think that's this incredibly important factor that changed a lot of things -- in a way, has changed the whole dynamic -- and maybe someday deserves its own thread.)

[stevana]

(As for the increase in the room fees, I think that's this incredibly important factor that changed a lot of things -- in a way, has changed the whole dynamic -- and maybe someday deserves its own thread.)

Maybe someday but given recent discussion about the lack of discussion of higher end clubs (where the room fee IS a significant amount) I don't think such a thread would have much input other than perhaps criticism of those who pay those fees. On the other hand, if there is anyone here who could craft an initial post that would generate some sort of meaningful discussion - that person, I think, would be you.

[Slinky Bender]

What if there was a place where lapdances were rolled back to $10, but you had to get a decent amount of them. For example, a spot where you have to buy 10 lapdance tickets at the door for $10 a piece upon entry?

[seeker6591]

Hand & job offer at ficha bar near Hempstead border.

how about a hint?

plaza..obsession or some other club?

[ekual2003]

I had ACTION:

Tropicana
5th Ave
Dr. Caves (not easy anymore, but on occasion)
Guys
Cabaret (all dominicans and pushy now, I dont go lately)
Showplace (full menu all the time, especially in afternoons, but Santa keeps short leash, so its to rushed)
Heartbreakers (was one of the best before the raids)
Spanky's (diff name now)
Sunrise (limited action here now)


No Action for me:

Hitching Post (been years since I been here, could have changed?)
Titillations (hot babes, but no chance for anything)
Roxxies (Only got DFK, but thats because I met a girl there, no chance here)
Ragtime (hot 'Zillians, but nothing to be had)
Clancy's (same as Ragtime)
Babydolls (had takeout here with a 19 yr old 'Zillian 2 yrs ago, but nothing else)
Moonlight
Marcet Go Go
Secrets
High Beams
Flamingo's (hackensack)
Lace (wayne)
Stiletto's (carlstadt)
Jiggles (Hawthorne)
Mickey D's (only went once)
Smiles
Rumors (Landing)
Hurrahs
Blue Goose
Emeralds (*****ville)
Twins (hackensack)
After Dark (newark)
Emigrante (newark)
Don Costa (newark)
Mr B's (passaic)
Boris's Place (passaic)
Foxxes (passaic)
Palace (passaic)
Delilahs (philly)
Satin Dolls (aka Bada Bing)
Double D's (morristown)
Red Shingle (*****ville)

[justlooking]

What if there was a place where lapdances were rolled back to $10, but you had to get a decent amount of them. For example, a spot where you have to buy 10 lapdance tickets at the door for $10 a piece upon entry?

For that to work, you'd have to be confident that there would be a woman or women you'd like enough to want to buy 10 lapdances.

[Slinky Bender]

Of course. but isn't that somewhat the case with most places with a cover: that you have a reasonable certainty that there is at least someone in there you'd have some interest in. Also, you have to take some risk/reward don't you?

[justlooking]

There's a cover, and there's $100.

(Same for risk/reward.)

[Slinky Bender]

Not follwoing you. Unless you think there won't be a single girl in there you would want to dance with, the $100 isn't totaly at risk. And if you did think there was a good chance that there wouldn't be a single girl who you wanted to dance with, would you pop for a $40 cover? (plus the time and trouble, etc.)

[justlooking]

OK, good point.

[Slinky Bender]

I guess the point is, if there was a place where you had at least some reason to belive you'd want to go to (and I think for a lot of guys, they won't bother to go to a place unless this is the case), what would they be willing to "give up" in return for something they want. In this case, they wat a return to $10 dances, and teh claim is being made (indirectly) that if that occured, there would actually be more total $ spent (on LDs) because they would more than double the amount of LDs they buy.

So, if someone were going to try to incentivise a return to $10 dances based on that premise, since it is almost certainly going to be viewed with much skepticsim by teh supply side of LDs, woudn't one way to convince them be that every guy would buy a minimum of 10 LDs, as opposed to 30% of guys buying zero LDs, 20% of guys buying 1 or 2 LDs, 25% buying 3 -5 LDs and 20 buying over 5 LDs (do I have that right as a distribution? And help here M?).

[justlooking]

If you're talking about a mainstream place rather than an underground place, I think the idea would have more traction. (Although, even at an underground place, your point about how the risk is mitigated is still pretty powerful.)

[masquerade]

The girls don't get a cut of this, do they, M?

No, they don't. Using your example - by the the time we tip everyone out, we would keep $440. of that 1000. That's also not counting the 100. or so house fee we have to pay each night, the 20. to the dj, and the 20. to makeup/hair/housemom/doorman..... etc. Basically, if I didn't get at least a couple hours in a room during the course of the night, I was annoyed because I felt like I did what I did in there just so that everyone else in the club got paid.