Please Help

[Ambernj2001]

People are saying that they saw a Amber & Friends ad in the Stepin Out mag

The problem is that is not us. They are using the same name as us.

I called them to explain that they have same name. They told me to go fuck myself. They said " to fucking bad if i dont like it change your name".

What should i do?

[jseah]

Sorry to hear about your problems, Sue. Maybe Judge Crater can give you some advice. I think as long as you did not trademark or copyright your name, anyone else can use it.

[sammyfantastic]

Well, if you have A&F properly registered, that is. Phillip Morris, the big tobacco company, was trying to change its name to Altria something. But a tiny outfit in PA jumped out and sued them because it had that name first. You probably can do the same. Phillip Morris probably can buy the Altria name out or choke the challenger to death with their dough, but your opponent probably does not have that kind of cash. So if you had the name properly, they either have to cough up the chunk of change or change their name.

[RWiggum]

Even if you have the full legal right to Amber & Friends, the other person might be able to use it if their name happens to be Amber. You are always allowed to use your personal name in the name of a business you own. Someone named McDonald is allowed to open a fast food restaurant called McDonald's, but they can't have a logo that resembles the "golden arches".

But I am not a lawyer, so YMMV or some other acronym.

[Ambernj2001]

Why whould they want to do that?

It is not like they will make friends by doing it

I can uderstand if they didn't know the name was out there but they way they told us to fuck off , I cant see why they whould want to make war.

[DannyNJ]

You could always change your name to "Samantha & Friends"... heh heh

[jseah]

Maybe they just want to capitalize on the goodwill that you have worked so hard to create. So if someone doesn't realize it, they may call them, thinking that his company is the same as yours. Assuming that they do not hold to the high standard that companies like you, Kevin, April, and Julie (among many others) aspire to, eventually they will be "outed", however, in the meantime they will have fooled a number of people and grabbed some quick cash, but you will be the one to suffer the consequences of having the black mark associated with your name.

[Ambernj2001]

Well here is there # 201-376-7661

Just so you guys know that this # is not me. ohh and if you want to call them and bitch in my behalf. Lets see how many times they can say fuck you.
Do you think they can say it 3500 times? That is alot of nice UG members.

[Thorn]

Sue,

All I can tell you is that the number originates out of the Hackensack central office.

My best guess, as the name is identical, is that they are aware of your service. This means that they probably have an online awareness and may even monitor this very board.

I would suggest that you do exactly what you are doing, which is to make it very clear to the service buying public that your service is not associated with this phone number. That there is a possible attempt at fraudulent practices taking place and if they want the true NNJE they contact only the number you provide, here and elsewhere.

There are other things you could do but I'm not going to discuss them here.

If you are interested drop me an e-mail. I'll throw a few ideas you way.

As for the folks suggesting suing... [scratching head]

Real Amber's: "Your honor, we have this business that provides a service currently outside the parameters of legal activity as defined within this state. Someone else came along and usurped our name and our good reputation within the business. We ask relief from the court in the form of an injunction, and damages."

Court: "Umm... are you high?"

:)

[Ambernj2001]

I sent you a e-mail whould love to hear what you mean about other ways.

[sammyfantastic]

Do we have to mention the "currently outside the parameters of legal activity" part? As long as A&F is a legitimately registered business, the court of law should protect its goodwill and throw the books at those who try to usurp their name for a quick buck. I'm sure the perpetrator would not mention the nature of their business either. So I guess A&F may well have a chance at it.

Sorry, Thorn, for trying to steal your thunder, but I'm just trying to help A&F out a bit. I agree with you that they may want to be hush-hush as much as they can, but if push comes to shove, they shouldn't feel hopeless, IMHO. Maybe I'm too naiive. I hope not.

Now, I begin to wonder what your off-the-book suggestions are...

[Thorn]

There is no way you could address the court for relief and not mention the type of business involved, as its both relevent and material to the proceedings.

For instance, two companies in totally unrelated fields could possess the same name, since they have no cross purpose, and therefore no conflict of interest.

The court, in order to determine if that is the case, is going to insist on knowing the nature of the business involved, on both parties part.

[sharked]

I think now get to put "the Original" in front of all you headings now........

actually it might make you sound cooler.

[Crazyphingers]

amber,

although I have yet to experience your service, I have been impressed with the reviews I have read here and I am particularly impresed with your possative attitude on this board and your apparent desire to make the best of your agency. As a result of this I called the number for the imposter as you mentioned and I complained about the situation. They got kind of nasty and said they were well aware of the issue and I should not bother them again...I will call again tommorw!

crazy

[candie]

Thought that post was so tacky of the guy whose post was deleted on *** yesterday now this,,, I don't know how you do it sue cause I could never handle an agency!

I know indys have a whole set of other problems to deal with but if I saw another local candie show up I might have to put that original before the name for awhile.

I would love to change my name but its frowned upon so I stay candie and turn to look everytime a kid says....dad can i have some candy, in the grocery store...sighs.

JC might have some thoughts, he will have to say the term, sex workers and prositutes, hookers, a few times to make him feel good but we are all use to him by now.

[buddyyy]

Originally posted by Ambernj2001
People are saying that they saw a Amber & Friends ad in the Stepin Out mag

The problem is that is not us. They are using the same name as us.

I called them to explain that they have same name. They told me to go fuck myself. They said " to fucking bad if i dont like it change your name".

What should i do?

I am not a lawyer but have been involved in similar situations. The fact is that if you have been using the name in trade, you do have the right to prevent it from being used by someone else when it is likely to cause confusion. Registration of the name or logo as trade or service marks, while helpful, in establishing the point in time when the use was started, is not necessary nor is it definitive. (Even if you have registered a mark there are circumstances where you could be prevented from using it anymore).


The key issue is establishing the fact that the copycat use could cause confusion. The issues that are looked at are how similar are the names and how similar are the lines of business.

For example if the other Amber & Friends provided secretarial services it probably would not be possible for you to prevent their use of the name. But if they are offering the same services that your firm does there is no question that there will be confusion.

The other issue is how similar is the name. If as you say it is the exact name that you have been using there is no question of the potential for confusion. Variations which might include the word Amber but not be exactly the same might be a bit more problematic but in cases where the services are exactly the same the court might consider that Amber is such a key element of the service mark that it would prevent any variation which included the name.

That's the theory. The reality in any business situation is that the law is only the starting point. Rarely is the outcome of any legal confrontation a certainty regardless how straight forward the facts. Prevailing is going to require the expenditure of resources with no guaranty of success.

Normally the next step after you as the owner of the business have contacted the owner of the other business to advise them of the conflict and ask them to stop, and been told to fuck off, would be for you to have a lawyer contact them on your behalf.

The process that then unfolds is a time consuming game of poker with each side raising the stakes for the other with increased legal and related fees as the dispute proceeds.

Normally these things do get resolved well before they get to court through some form of compromise (You might allow them to use Amber as long as it is in a way that is distinct from the way you use it, a solution they might be willing to accept because they would be concerned that if it gets to court they might be precluded from using Amber at all.)

I don’t know of the legal status of your business or any special problems that you might encounter in the courts because of that status.

I have heard that in certain states such as New Jersey that there are organizations, who if you have relationships with them, can help you resolve these types of disputes.

Good luck

[buddyyy]

Originally posted by Thorn
Sue,

All I can tell you is that the number originates out of the Hackensack central office.

My best guess, as the name is identical, is that they are aware of your service. This means that they probably have an online awareness and may even monitor this very board.

I would suggest that you do exactly what you are doing, which is to make it very clear to the service buying public that your service is not associated with this phone number. That there is a possible attempt at fraudulent practices taking place and if they want the true NNJE they contact only the number you provide, here and elsewhere.

There are other things you could do but I'm not going to discuss them here.

If you are interested drop me an e-mail. I'll throw a few ideas you way.

As for the folks suggesting suing... [scratching head]

Real Amber's: "Your honor, we have this business that provides a service currently outside the parameters of legal activity as defined within this state. Someone else came along and usurped our name and our good reputation within the business. We ask relief from the court in the form of an injunction, and damages."

Court: "Umm... are you high?"

:)

The nature of the business will be a factor but it is not clear that it would prevent resolution through the legal system.

From a legal perspective both organizations provide legal escort and companion services.

[Ambernj2001]

Originally posted by candie
Thought that post was so tacky of the guy whose post was deleted on *** yesterday now this,,, I don't know how you do it sue cause I could never handle an agency!

I know. It just seems when everything is going good someone has to go and start problems.

IMHO I think Crazyphingers has the way to handle it. They seem to get VERY MAD when we call them. With tons of phone calls telling them how fucked up it is to continue to use the name, maybe they might just bag the idea.

No way will I ever get the court involed. If it has to go as far as that I whould cry.

Good thing about UG is how a group of people can influence people.

[jseah]

I think the curious thing would be to see if they offered a girl named Samantha also......or if they had a website which was very similar to yours. If that was the case, then you would definitely know that their intention is to ride in on your coattails.

[wildwyatt]

I personally would not worry about because most of your clientel are targeted from the internet. Until they start posting online with the same name then it could be a problem. Or you could take a ad out on steppin magazine and say the new number is,, and give yours and that should piss them off and change their number.

[jseah]

Sue,

I'm a little confused (that's not too uncommon). Are they going by the name Amber & Friends, or by NNJ Escorts?

[Ambernj2001]

it says " Amber and Friends "

[justme]

Heh, the problem with tradmarks/copyrights/etc. is you lose 'em if you don't defend 'em and defending 'em can be costly. Before you contact a lawyer, you should probably write a letter in which you point out your use of the business name first, the fact that you are in competing businesses, and the result of your earlier phone call. Send it certified (keep a copy, of course... for fun you could cc it to any lawyer you know) to the agency and see what happens next. If you do decide to sue, this will be good documentation to have anyway (recollections of phone calls don't carynearly the weight of written docs.

Good luck

[lordruvane]

sue your forgetting one thing money talks. go to stepping out and offer to take out a larger ad in there mag. if they stop advertising the copy cats. the guys in at stepping out are small time and advertsing money means alot to them. the ad would be good for your bisness also.

[sammyfantastic]

lordruvane, money does talk but Sue doesn't own the US Mint. A&F can definitely spend more money to advertise on Stepping Out, but out of the 3,500+ UG users, how many subscribe to them? If A&F has to outspend the imposter here, the latter can go to some other obscure mag and A&F has to follow them while making sure they don't lose their footprint in Stepping Out. I don't think A&F can afford big page advertising in all the small time magazines.

[biggod]

Amber,

I have not try your agency yet but will in the future. The best way to get them to change their name is Have people call their number and hang up that way their won't get any of your business. Also a friend told me that one could go to a web site called wakeup.com it's suppose to call the number every 30 sec or min. and everytime you hang up in 30 sec the phone rings again you set how long this is to go on. That would teach those dirty bags to mess with a really good agency.

[sammyfantastic]

Originally posted by biggod
Also a friend told me that one could go to a web site called wakeup.com it's suppose to call the number every 30 sec or min. and everytime you hang up in 30 sec the phone rings again you set how long this is to go on.

Hmm, nice prank to know. But wouldn't this tactic backfire if the enemy ever finds out? If both sides engage in this prank war, the enemy doesn't have as much to lose since they just started and don't have much business anyway. Maybe A&F should call the Soprano wiseguys, huh? Just kidding!

[Thorn]

All you guys talking about suing. I don't claim to be a lawyer, I just play one one TV, but...

As far as I know you are missing the point...

The court won't hear the issue because the court of equity can not decide a case where the topic at issue is directly involved with an illegal act.

So, two businesses using the same name where one is petitioning the court for relief, but both are involved in an illegal enterprise, finds the case not being heard.

You see?

[sammyfantastic]

As far as the A&F name is concerned, it is legitimately registered as an escort and companionship business. If the court considers this business illegal, how could A&F get it registered in the first place? We don't see "ABC Drug Dealing Co." in the yellow pages, right? You may argue that we don't see "XYZ Prostitution, Inc." either. You're right, but if Mr. Pablo Escobar registers (or maybe I should say registered) a "Mile High Co." fronting tabacco & cigar business and Mr. John Doe #2 tries to usurp it, the court still has an obligation to protect Mr. Escobar as long as it can't prove that "Mile High Co." = "ABC Drug Dealing Co.", right? Of course, Mr. Escobar wouldn't go to court and tell the judge about his coccaine business under "Mile High Co." and neither would John Doe #2. As far as current law goes, escort is a legit business. And if the judge asks about the nature of the business, A&F can provide the legit version. Even though the judge may chuckle in the back of his/her mind, he/she needs to prove the suspicion before denying A&F its due protection under the law.

Sorry for using such a bad analogy, but I can't think of a better one quickly enough. I apologize if I offended anybody. Nothing intentional. And Thorn, although I disagree with you on this one, you're still high on a pedestal in my heart. We are just arguing about things in theory, maybe the most effective approach is the phone bombardment strategy. So, let's leave the computer and pick up the phone, shall we? :-)

[remarkable]

Sue,

While a number of the ideas expressed here are certainly interesting, I'd caution you to think long and hard about what action you might take in this matter. In particular, don't do something on the spur of the moment, without considering the domino effect. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction right? I'm not condoning what this imposter has done, in fact I think it's pretty lame, but if they engage in this kind of practice they may be more likely to meet your tits for tat in ways that you would also find unpleasant. (Sorry about slipping into using the word tits, but I guess this is the forum for it eh?)

1- OK, so they have duplicated your name. Does it matter? Perhaps. They may have some crappy girls, or be cash and dash, bait and switch, whatever. But, the real issue is: Have they impacted your business in a negative fashion? Until that happens, do you really care?

2- Harass them, and they'll surely harass you even more in return. They'll start to name their girls Samantha and Jessie and use the same descriptions etc. Any strong business success comes from a loyal base of customers that is built up over time. Be sure all your clients know who you are, what your number is, and that you are not the same business that advertises in rag publications. Web and word of mouth only. Be the "exclusive" place that only really 1st class guys get to find out about. Hand out discreet business cards, "NNJ Consulting Services", with an e-mail addy, a simple logo, and your phone number. All you need to concern yourself with is your clients, and their friends that they refer to you.

3- Things like this tend to make themselves bigger than life if you let them. Ignore it and it will probably go away over time. Just like Candie's situation, with someone else trying to use her name. I'll bet that she worried about some negative impact initially, but in retrospect she would say it really took care of itself and not one of her true desired clients was fooled. Think of it like this.... how many of us on UG would fall for an agency that called itself "Julie's of New Jersey"??? Not one of us would be fooled.

So, my advice takes a slightly different approach here... whatever you determine your approach to be, I wish you luck and success.

[justme]

Thorn (and I guess all) - to be perfectly clear, I wasn't advocating suing. I tend to believe that lawsuits are almost always counter productive and too costly to justify themselves. Business solutions are preffered, and what I proposed (a simple certified letter) is normally the first step in reaching a business solution.

As Sammy mentions, the agency does have an ostensibly legal line of business, and would therefore be entitled to protection under the courts. But I think that there's a bigger issue here that's more in line with your thinking. It's generally not a great idea to have LE snooping around your business if you're engaging in even psuedo legal activities. I'm sure this is more what you meant.

[jseah]

Sue,

I think remarkable brings up a good point. While it is obvious that the company is just trying to copy you, unless what they are doing is starting to affect you adversely, do you really want to get into a pissing match with someone you really don't know anything about? Maybe I am being a little c.s., but you never know what they are capable of, or willing to do, for revenge if you try to get back at them. I suppose, I have always been the passive type anyways.

[TXGY]

Originally posted by Ambernj2001
it says " Amber and Friends "

They can't copy your phone number. I would just make sure you publish that with each e-mail, ad and any other communication......... I think we call all remember which is the real A&F number.

[sammyfantastic]

Originally posted by jseah
Sue,

I think remarkable brings up a good point. While it is obvious that the company is just trying to copy you, unless what they are doing is starting to affect you adversely, do you really want to get into a pissing match with someone you really don't know anything about? Maybe I am being a little c.s., but you never know what they are capable of, or willing to do, for revenge if you try to get back at them. I suppose, I have always been the passive type anyways.

If I start producing Coca Cola six packs, do you think they will and should leave me alone until I become their serious competitor? A customer that goes to fake A&F is on that the real A&F has lost. Maybe the lost customer isn't physically visable to anybody here, but fake A&F's books will see another couple Franklins in revenue.

If avoiding pissing contest should be the ultimate goal, then when is a good time for anybody to fight back in similar situations? The day they file Chapter 11 with the court?

[sammyfantastic]

Originally posted by TXGY


They can't copy your phone number. I would just make sure you publish that with each e-mail, ad and any other communication......... I think we call all remember which is the real A&F number.

Man, I can almost believe that the fake A&F paid you to say that.

[Crazyphingers]

I called them twice again today...this is fun...just ask them if they are the real A&F or the lame ass imposter that sprung up....tell them you were just checking, because you want to make sure you go to the right one.....

they really could take a lesson in social skills...the lady on the phone is such a bitch it makes it even funner to call them,,,,

[jgd]

Sue,

I gave a call yesterday too and gave the woman a piece of my mind.

[Ambernj2001]

Thanks to all you guys trying to help me out... I dont know what to say.... But you guys are the BEST !!!!! And thanks for your support in this... SUE

[pjv]

Did you trademark or copyright your name and logo? If not, you can't really do much. I think you should give it some time...chances are they will go out of business soon and you'll keep rolling along.