Searching for answers

[Phantom]

I've been seeing this one provider for close to two years now. The first couple of dates were of the several hour type, but after that they all were for at least overnight. It got to the point were what she asked from me for 24+ hours was less then what she asked of other guys for 6 hours. She is strictly outcall, but I've seen her at her apartment.

Up until a couple of months ago dates were fairly easy to schedule with her because we were both willing to compromise as to when and where. Recently however she has told me that she could not do overnighters anymore and trying to schedule anything in advance with her has become impossible.

I've set her up with friends for a rate higher then she asked for when she first became a independent. I have not asked or expected anything$ for this from her. Some of these dates which were originally for several hours became overnighters. I've talked to these friends afterward and they all told me that she spoke very highly of me, called me a trusted friend.

And yet recently when I leave a VM for her to give me a call, it might be a week or more, if at all before she calls me back.

Anybody here, particularly you ladies, who might be able to give me an idea as to what might be going through her head?

[yoric]

It is my opinion that this provider has gotten popular/busy and can no longer afford to extend those special rates to you. As much as we may dislike to think so, its a business that we are involved in and she is simply doing better business. If it is true that you do not expect anything in return for sending business her way( and in some small measure causing your current problem), then consider yourself fortunate for the good two year run and move on- she seems to be. Take care

[Phantom]

Without going into any details as to why, she is seeing allot fewer guys then she used too and making far less then she used too.

[HornDogBuddah]

Have you asked her if she the reason that she doesn't seem to have time for you is because she is now so busy with new clients?

[Phantom]

Lets just say that she is only working part time now. The great rates I got were when she was working full time and at the height of her popularity.

[yoric]

Well, since business is not the issue here- I suppose you have to look toward the personal, and on that I cant possibly have an opinion without knowing more about the relationship. I certainly understand if you dont want to look down that road, I wouldnt on a public board.

[justme]

I've set her up with friends for a rate higher then she asked for

Some friend.

[Phantom]

Let me carifly that. When she first started as an indie the rate she asked for was very low. She never once raised her rates. Because of increased risks in her life right now and based upon all the great reviews she got I convinced her to was time to raise her rates. She could not believe she was worth more then she was asking, I convinced her she was. If you don't like that tough shit.

[Ozzy]

she was very underpriced a year or so ago.

i think maybe she's just is slowing down a bit, i'm sure she'll pick back up in a few.

[justme]

Just joking, man, don't be so sensitive.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by justme
Just joking, man, don't be so sensitive.

justme, it's justPhantom's 'dry humor'.

[Edited by guy catelli on 02-09-2001 at 07:32 AM]

[Assman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Phantom
[B]Recently however she has told me that she could not do overnighters anymore and trying to schedule anything in advance with her has become impossible.


And yet recently when I leave a VM for her to give me a call, it might be a week or more, if at all before she calls me back.

She is telling you to move on. You may have become too infatuated with her to understand.

[Carl M]

My brothers you guys are all right. This is a rather familiar tale. Lets say you were lucky for a long time, but this is a business. If this provider can get lets say $400 as opposed to your $200 who is she going to go with. Its the ole motto sell out to the highest bidder- happens alot!!!

[Phantom]

CarlM,

You're missing the point that even when she was working full time and at the height of her popularity, I was paying that greatly reduced fee.

I'm sure the weekends she spent with me at that time could have easily been fulled doing the 1 or 2 hour thing and she would have made allot more, but she chose to spend them with me for this greatly reduced fee.

[Edited by Phantom on 02-09-2001 at 09:25 AM]

[jester]

Phantom,

Maybe she took a good look at her relationship with you and was scared by what she realized.

I'm not being sarcastic or insulting. There has been more than one thread about "things progressing too far". Perhaps she felt that she was falling for you and this is her way of trying to cool it down. Without knowing either of you, it would be difficult to say for sure, but I think that this is how I would read it.

If you care for her as a person, you might try to re-establish the relationship on a friendship level, and not see her professionally.

Either way, good luck to you both.

Jester

[frog]

Phantom, you think she is not working all that much right now, right? Have you seen her recently? Have you talked to anyone who has? Is she well? Was she good at returning messages before?

1. she has feelings for you, but feels conflicted because you are a client, thus she doesn't want to have feelings for you, and thus don't want to see you.
2. she is pissed off at wasting all that time & potential money on you in the past.
3. she found someone else with whom she would rather spend time with at the reduced rate.
4. she has a 'real' relationship now and so find it hard to talk to you or even to make time to talk to you.
5. she is not well.

Let me add that I have gotten pretty close with a provider recently and immediately after we did a few non-commercial things together, she stopped taking my calls for a couple of weeks. I was very perplexed as I thought we were getting along as well as can be. After I tracked her down (no no, no stalking), and we are back to speaking and commercial terms, I still didn't get a full explanation of what happened. I only suspect #1 because, well, of my misguided ego.

[K.S.]

Probably, she just wasn't comfortable with your relationship any more. It isn't about the money - it's just how she feels now about you.

I used to get this way with regular clients after a while - and all the girls agreed with me. Basically, seeing a regular can be hard. You have to go deeper and deeper every time. I mean, even in "real life" most relationships fizzle because the novelty wears off.

It's almost certainly not your fault. Just let it go.

Oh, and don't be surprised if she calls you up in the future when she's short of cash or something. If this hurts your feelings, then you know you shouldn't have been involved on the level at which you were.

[Phantom]

Kimberly,

Can you be so kind as to please email me? I would like to discuss this with you off a public board. There are things about this "relationship" that I can not post here. I would greatly appreciate your insights and thoughts from the provider, although ex, view of things. Thank you.

[Edited by Phantom on 02-09-2001 at 11:19 AM]

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by K.S.
Probably, she just wasn't comfortable with your relationship any more. It isn't about the money - it's just how she feels now about you.

I used to get this way with regular clients after a while - and all the girls agreed with me. Basically, seeing a regular can be hard. You have to go deeper and deeper every time. I mean, even in "real life" most relationships fizzle because the novelty wears off....

i appreciate your wise words, KS, as i do those of assman, jester, and frog.

it's really not much different than the civilian world. the shape of the curve of the financial calculus may vary, but as for the emotional calculus, "the fundamental things apply ... as time goes by."

[jmcurry]

Although I write professionally for at least half of my living, I do not know exactly where to begin. Phantom, I am exactly where you have been. I have seen one provider for about six years (not exclusively), give or take some time-off on either side. Further, she has seen me at a reduced rate, since she became an independent. Yet, within the past 2 months, she has backed off meeting me. I cannot discern whether her reluctance is due to her ability to command higher fees, or because, as KS intimated, she was no longer comfortable with our relationship. I turn on my cell phone every morning, hoping to find a voicemail from her, although I know that it will not be there. What can we do as "hobbyists"? Must we constantly move on to new providers, or is there room for more long term associations?

[One Eyed Trouser Trout]

Relationships between reasonably healthy individuals takes lots of effort, and there are lots of ups and downs and lots of confusion.

Ok. Now extract the demands of a relationship between healthy folk and overlay those demands on provider and client (granted, not the healthiest pups in the litter) and you've got Relationship Special Olympics.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Obsessing over the results is equally as nutz.

[Phantom]

Well I finally caught her on the phone this morning. Really just wanted to leave a VM, but she picked up. I told her that I needed her to answer a question for me very honestly and truthful. She has never answered with anything less in the past.

I asked her if the reason she will not do ON with me or not willing to set anything up in advance was her way of telling me that she does not want to see me again. He answer was, "No, not at all"

She told me why she had problems doing these two things, lets just say that they involve her erratic non business schedule. Only time will tell for sure.

[Phantom]

Well then OETT, I must be an especially sick pup then.

[One Eyed Trouser Trout]

Originally posted by Phantom
, "No, not at all"



so, did she mean, No, she doesn't want to see you at all?

Or, No, the fact that she can't answer you is not at all what you think..

I hate it when people answer with mixed messages...

And yes Phantom...me, you, Ozzy, everybody,...we all have issues or we'd be repulsed by what we do.

Some are just sicker than others.

[Edited by One Eyed Trouser Trout on 02-09-2001 at 10:37 PM]

[justme]

we all have issues or we'd be repulsed by what we do

I'd say that determining the truth of this statement is at least 50% responsible for my activities in places like this.

[badz]

.

[Edited by badz on 05-23-2001 at 09:57 PM]

[badz]

.

[Edited by badz on 05-23-2001 at 09:57 PM]

[Phantom]

OETT,

I asked if her decision not to do ON with me at this time and her not being able to schedule anything in advance was her way of trying to tell me that she would rather not see me anymore. Her response of "No, not at all" meant that "No" is not her way of telling me that she did not want to see me anymore.

Badz,

First of all just how many drinks did it take before your higher power appeared?

Please don't take the next couple of sentences the wrong way. What if a certain NYC provider who ecently went indie started not to return your calls. Would you be able to take your own advice to move on? Would you at least want to know if sure? Would you not make any attempt to get back into her good graces?

[yoric]

Phantom,
First of all no disrespect intended. If you dont like what I have to say, fine- disregard it.
But- the fact is you have deflected every response offered, except that of KS, who you want
to correspond with privately because you say there are facts that you dont want to disclose publicly.
Why ask for opinions in the first place? Especially if you are holding back important details.
My feeling is that you already know the answer to your inquiry.
I wish you a good outcome in this matter. I have been there and survived.

[Phantom]

yoric,

No offense taken. You've posed some legitimate questions, let me see if I can answer them.

I think maybe the word "deflected" is not quite right. Maybe the word "clarifly" is better. There were a few responses that commented on the fact that she could be making more money elsewhere and that is the reason she hasn't returned calls. I clariflied this by saying that these rates were even when she was working full time and the height of he popularity. How is that deflecting?

while I greatly appreciate all the responses from you guys which opinions and from who do you think carry more weight? If I wanted opinions on what girl is worth while to see I would ask you guys instead of accepting the escorts word that she was the best. Don't you think on this matter that the thoughts that come from a provider might be a step closer to the problem?

The main reason I wanted to talk off the board with KS is that this provider, my provider in question is "retired". I'm sure you all know that "retired" means awhole lot different then from being "retired" outside of the business. I would have put her well being in question if I just started posting all the info on an open board. I'm just trying to avoid posting enough info about this provider and my situation with her to concel her identity. Even if it turns out that she will not see me again I couldn't do that. She does not want one guy to know she is still working. I just figured that I could avoid allot of problems by talking to KS.

[One Eyed Trouser Trout]

My suggestion is if you're looking for love and loyalty, you get a Golden Retriever.

Just an opinion...but the hope and dream of having a healthy relationship with a provider opens all clients up to gut wrenching and brain twisting experiences.

Remember...we pay them to leave.

[Slinky Bender]

Well, at least we've heard from someone who has followed his own advice.......

[Phantom]

Combining a personal need to try and fix things and the memory of allot of great times with this woman. I just find it real hard to just let go.

[One Eyed Trouser Trout]

What I've done with non-provider situations like this in the past is try to pretend that they've died...and then work to mourn the loss.

I've only gotten good at this in the past 2 or 3 years.

Far more people have come in and out of my life than have stayed, and when I talk to others about their perceptions of their own experience, they see the same trend.

For some reason, people will continue to cross paths with me, will teach me something, and then leave. Some leave too quick, others don't leave quick enough.

An old salt was talking to his grandson regarding women.. The old salt had been quite a cocksman in his day, even marrying a few of the better ladies he had come to know.

His advice to his grandson was somewhat abstract..but he said..."Women are like trolleys...if you miss one, don't chase it. Wait patiently and another will come along"

[badz]

.

[Edited by badz on 05-23-2001 at 09:57 PM]

[justme]

Would you ate least want to know for sure?

Certainty is at best an illusion, but more likely a delusion. In my limited experience I've noticed that people who continue to search for the truth they want in the face of significant counter-evidence will often use certainty as an excuse for an unhealthy prolonging of the task. I know that I've done it.

[Phantom]

Badz and justme,

What I meant when I said that "wouldn't you want to know for sure" is that I would much rather be told in no uncertain words that, "please do not call me, I do not want to see you anymore" instead of doing things that leave doubt and questions in the mind of the guy as to the girls intentions.

All I want is her to be upfront and honest. Yes, it might hurt more then and for a while, but all doubts are erased. Being upfront and honest is better for both parties in the long run.

[yoric]

Phantom,
I see your situation a little more clearly now and appreciate it.
Being upfront and honest, wouldnt the world ( and the hobby) be a more tolerable, albeit painful at times,place to be if this were practiced?
I hope you get closure on this with a minimum of distress

[justme]

The underlying assumption that you're making is that she knows exactly what she wants/thinks.

[Phantom]

If she doesn't know, how the hell am I supposed too?

[justme]

OK, let's throw out the fact that she's a providor (which I think is an incredible oversimplification). Your situation is that you are somewhat attracted to a woman who is acting a little bizarre and may not know exactly how she feels about you. Your choices are twofold (as I see it). You can write it off (as many people have advocated) or you can sweat it out and wait patiently until she makes up her mind. In general it's been my experience that it's a terrible mistake to try to influence this situation with any kind of pressure. So if you decide to sweat it out then the best thing is to let her know that you want to hear from her when she's ready to see you. IMHO.

But given the fact that she's (most likely) got tons of other issues going on, and your own history of obsessing over women, I would say that your best bet is to write it off. But of course you'll do whatever you want to.

[Edited by justme on 02-11-2001 at 02:59 AM]

[guy catelli]

as far as i can recall, i have not given online advice to anyone about a private matter; nor, likewise, have i solicited same on my own behalf. so, i will only mention here, fwiw, what i myself am doing in a not disimilar situation.

on certain days of the year that i know have special significance for her, i send a card. i also send a note from time to time during the year.

i don't try to persuade her that today can be like yesterday, because i know that it can't. but, i consider it a little gift to remind her that she is in the position to do the rejecting (at least where i'm concerned ;)).

this is a position every woman enjoys occupying; it cannot be less the case for a woman much of civilian society views as not occupying this position professionally.