Open note to one of the boys........ [Archive]

Ezrlove

03-23-2001, 08:53 AM

Just to bring up a little different point of view.

I think the reason why the ladies talk to some of the guys they trust is because they don't have anyone else to talk to about their jobs. They can't sit down at the dinner table with their spouse or girlfriend next door and talk about the session they had last night. On the other hand, we (the swinging penise's, well some swing and some don't) have all sorts of forums to discuss our hobby.

I'll give you one good reason why there never will be complete confidentiality. When the provider has a session, she must let someone know whom she is going to be with, where they are going, and when she should be back for her own safety.

TNS - I think you should try to contact the guy directly and let him know that he was intimidating one of the ladies. The guys on this board are pretty cool. We may not all agree with each other but I think respect is common around here. If you can, e-mail the guy. He may not even know that he is intimidating to the ladies. Hopefully he will take the information well and change his ways.

robnotbob

03-23-2001, 08:55 AM

You found out a fact about yourself??

Did you already know this fact or was it new information??

rnb..busting chops on a gorgeous Friday afternoon.

[Edited by robnotbob on 03-23-2001 at 12:56 PM]

Ozzy

03-23-2001, 09:57 AM

i think this case was more about a girl more or less being concerned for her safety than it was blabbing anything about a session......

some of you guys don't want to hear this, but lets not hang this all on the ladies either. some guys have big fucking mouths too. at least the girls have reasons (safety issues) to ask questions about someone.

:cool:

TuckernotSucker

03-23-2001, 10:09 AM

Mr. Rob. (I love the formal titles), I know you are just busting them but I was happy to find out that I like a variety of women. I never knew this about myself, but my checking account knew it. LOL

Mr. One Eyed Trouser Trout--- where the fuck did you pick up that y'all shit. Too many trailer parks in the south?

Ozzy in a serious mood today.

TuckernotSucker

03-23-2001, 10:14 AM

In all truthfullness, the only facts the girls really dwell on are their safety and the hygiene of their clients. Although many of these girls are reccomended by us, we do not know each other (except that Carl M likes Pastrami), our looks our weight or our hygiene. Being clean helps lead to a good session (going home to shower before next encounter).
To quote the famous One Eyed Trouser Trout see ya later y'all.

Carl M

03-23-2001, 10:26 AM

If it walks and breaths it can TALK!!!

Hey Tucker are you saying I have bad breath!!

[Edited by Carl M on 03-23-2001 at 02:27 PM]

Ozzy

03-23-2001, 10:53 AM

tucker.......you know why....

though i never ask or talk about anyone.......many seem to enjoy asking and talking about me, SHIT a few have even claimed to be me......problem is....

they ain't as good as me.

:cool:

TuckernotSucker

03-23-2001, 11:31 AM

Ozzy, how do you know?

Carl M, didnt get that close to you. My remarks were not meant to you.

Tankcommander

03-23-2001, 12:17 PM

Except I like Corned Beef! But not just any corned beef, Katz's Deli Corned Beef!

Ozzy

03-23-2001, 01:01 PM

because in our own minds.....

we're all the best.

:cool:

TuckernotSucker

03-23-2001, 01:08 PM

Aint nothin bad about Katz's Brisket and Pastrami either. I mostly like the roaches in the dining room though

One Eyed Trouser Trout

03-23-2001, 01:11 PM

[i]
Mr. One Eyed Trouser Trout--- where the fuck did you pick up that y'all shit. Too many trailer parks in the south?

[/B]

And that ain't the worst of it...if her daddy don't know your daddy, and your daddy's daddy, you don't stand much a chance unless you're a guy much different that I am.

Make sense?

One Eyed Trouser Trout

03-23-2001, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by HornDogBuddah
OETT: Can we assume that the person in question posts here but does not allow direct email responses to his posts? Otherwise, why don't you simply send him a private email message and warn him off directly?

Also, while we're on the subject of public service announcements, how about outing yourself a little -- how is it that you have a) access to the particulars of this situation and b) have factual knowledge that other providers have circulated/shared information about this individual?

First question response is yes. Second is then N/A.

Quick summary to third inquiry....I've been around and got a few friends.

Talisa

03-24-2001, 12:24 AM

Unfortunately the girl gossip groups DO exist and not always for their own safety as they claim. I peeked at the Los Angeles private girls board and all they did was list the names and personal info of their BEST clients in hopes of scaring the other girls away from seeing them if contacted. I saw the personal info of several of my better clients and it churned my stomach to know this was going on.

I frown on such scuzzy behavior which is why I have clearly listed on my site "Do not talk to me about other escorts and do not talk about me to them" and I also refuse to accept or give referrals out to other escorts. The point is I don't want contact with them. Since so many do lie, I cannot put faith in their warnings and must instead rely on my own screening process and my gut instinct. I wouldn't trust them to warn if someone was bad because they view others as competition and don't really want to help anyone else out. :(

Sorry to hear that Spotny had his SS# and home address invaded. Unless you had hurt her or ripped her off in some way, she had no right to invade YOUR privacy. Some girls just like to show off how clever they (think) they are...If only she worked so hard at passing the Bar Exam...:) LOL!

http://www.losangeles-massage.com

guy catelli

03-24-2001, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Talisa
Unfortunately the girl gossip groups DO exist and not always for their own safety as they claim.

it's interesting how many parallels there are to the clients-only groups. however, one difference is that the escorts-only groups do not aid and abet violence against clients. then again, maybe they do?

I peeked at the Los Angeles private girls board and all they did was list the names and personal info of their BEST clients in hopes of scaring the other girls away from seeing them if contacted. I saw the personal info of several of my better clients and it churned my stomach to know this was going on....

this is not unusual in the world of finance. it is what Charles Keating of Lincoln Savings and Loan claimed (to greatly oversimplify his story). the federal courts provided a certain degree of vindication for his position.

but, at least the escorts are trying to keep the clients for themselves -- rather than destroy them, as is done on wall street. something along these lines happened to Ross Perot. a number of wall street firms convinced him to put up money to save Dupont {the investment firm, not the chemical company}, and promised him to give the firm 'breathing room' if he did. as soon as Perot sank his own money into proping up Dupont, the same firms organized a 'bear raid' to send Dupont under, and then pocketed the assets (ie, the money Perot had just put up). Joseph P. Kennedy, later the first head of the SEC, was famous for this kind of maneuver.

... I have clearly listed on my site "Do not talk to me about other escorts and do not talk about me to them"

when i read that, i thought to myself: ~wow -- my kind of woman!~

... and I also refuse to accept or give referrals out to other escorts. The point is I don't want contact with them .... {I} instead rely on my own screening process and my gut instinct.

i am the same way. i try to avoid reading reviews. whether sincere or not, i don't find them helpful.

in the social sciences, there is a term, 'field dependence'. it is a measure of how much people are influenced by the opinions, perceptions, etc, of others around them. a famous advertising campaign had just three words: "It's a Sony." the more field dependent the person, the more those three words would suffice to determine his or her purchasing decision.

some people, by contrast, are relatively field independent. while it is true that "no {one} is an island", still, some of us are less influenced than others by what books, movies, tv shows, museum exhibits, etc, are the biggest bestsellers. some prefer, for example, independent foreign films. (hmmm)

but, there is also 'negative field dependence'. that is the people who won't go to any hollywood films, or watch any television, etc. i think these may be the unhappiest people of all.

so, i decide on an escort based upon her pictures (i admit it ;)), the way her site is presented, and what she posts on the boards. what is most important is the implicit 'attitude' expressed by each of these three sources of data about an escort.

what seems clear to me from your 'net presentation is that you are a woman of character and independence who shows the respect for others that she expects from them.

[Edited by guy catelli on 03-25-2001 at 09:16 AM]

K.S.

03-24-2001, 02:56 PM

Talisa: I'm sorry that you have had such bad experiences dealing with other escorts.

I never had that problem, myself. Of course, I wasn't all that friendly with many of them. There were one or two I knew via email and I did a couple of referals. I never felt like trying to keep a client to myself or anything like that, though.

I didn't do the gossiping for safety's sake, though. Mostly, I did it just for the fun and companionship. When we gossiped about a client, it wasn't about his real name or where he lived or anything, it was more "Hey, this guy likes me to call him Daddy. Oh, you, too?"

Everybody gossips about their clients. It's not meant to hurt people or get anything over on them - it's just a way of socializing. I know that guys gossip about the girls, and not just because they need to know how good her service is - just because it's interesting.

Ash

03-24-2001, 03:29 PM

But in your case KS, you get to see whats said in both circles.

Amanda Witherspoon

03-25-2001, 10:30 PM

my goodness, I am glad that here in Texas we have some pretty great girls who ARE looking out for each other. I have found this to be the case in most cities I have toured. It is a shame that the girls in CA are so horrible--it wrecks it for everyone. I guess I will not be contacting you if anyone gives your name as a referral. Can't say I understand your thinking, as it's a safety issue first and foremost--but I respect your right to think what you want.

Just so you know...you can always contact me for a referral, should you change your viewpoint.

Amanda :)

guy catelli

03-26-2001, 07:01 AM

all of you ladies know that i am in love with each of you, but ...

in a perfect world, there would be a fixed and impermeable boundary between: 1) just-for-the-fun-of-it 'harmless' gossip; 2) legitimate concerns about escort safety; and 3) malicious and untrue defamation (no matter how sincerely believed by the writer of it).

however, as has just recently been demonstrated here at UG, there's a very slippery slope down which 1 can rapidly slide into 2, and just as quickly from there to 3.

the phenomenon of closed information networks is even more unfair when a client is challenged to explain "what's going on!?!"; yet, the questioner steadfastly refuses to specify even the nature of the rumor circulating about him.

nevertheless, this is less unfair than the situation where rumors are circulating about a client, and he doesn't even know the rumors exist, much less their content.

i've been the most vocal client on the internet in opposing client-only information loops, because at best they are juvenile, and at worst they cause severe harm to the innocent. and, under any circumstances, they are completely unreliable, just as, for example, raw FBI files are completely unreliable grab bags of gossip and innuendo.

the only point that has ever been scored against me, in this vein, ran along the lines of, ~what about escort-only lists?~ naively, i insisted these were justified on the grounds of escort safety. especially after recent events, i am no longer so naive.

{end of rant -- for now ;)}

[Edited by guy catelli on 03-26-2001 at 11:47 AM]

Amanda Witherspoon

03-26-2001, 07:40 AM

I just meant that because I've not found the same problems with ladies. What Talisa points out about the girls in LA is not new. This has been heard before among some of my contemporaries. I don't know why...whether the competitiveness is just out of hand, or the blue skies and sandy beaches do it...LOL.

Sorry, I didn't mean to pinpoint LA as if they are the only ones who have nasty backstabbing bitches from hell. We know that's everywhere. It just seems to be more prevalent there.

A:)

guy catelli

03-26-2001, 08:23 AM

dear Miss Witherspoon,

i deleted the reference to LA. my main point is that if client-only loops are wrong because they tend to both distort rumors and magnify those distortions, then escort-only loops are wrong for the same reasons.

the incident referred to above, where 'harmless gossip' quickly became a 'safety issue', which, in turn, quickly became malicious defamation, did not originate from LA, as far as i can tell.

so, i don't think the problem with escort-only loops, per se, is "nasty backstabbing bitches from hell", just as i don't think the problem with client-only loops, per se, is nasty backstabbing {male} bitches from hell. the problem is the fact that the loop is closed -- period.

i am very familiar with the bizarre and unchallenged inaccuracies that these client-only closed loops inevitably foster -- including, believe it or not, misattributions of gender regarding escorts who are, in fact, incredibly feminine women!!!

so, to avoid Ozzy calling me "YFH!" (which would be accurate if i were not consistent about this), i have to point out that escort-only loops, for the same reasons, inevitably harm innocent people with wild distortions.

i am afraid this will embarrass you, but, as a matter of conscience, i must point out that you posted a highly favorable review of me as a client at the most courageous possible time to do so -- when i was being flamed into charcoal over my supporting the first outing of Gerald back in 1999. others wanted the matter handled in a closed loop (which would have been unfair to Gerald), open only to escorts -- and ***! (now that that there is credible reason to believe that Gerald is a robber and rapist of escorts, and not just a sexual skip-thief, i think the equities have shifted somewhat.)

i only point this out because i think newcomers should know that you did what you felt was the honorable thing -- even knowing that you would take a lot of public heat for it.

but, even before then, i had paid you in-full at the time i booked an appointment for your first new york tour -- because i know an honest and well-intended person when i see one.

and, of course, i agree with your point that a client-requested referral is a different matter, just as any *applicant-requested* school or job recommendation is a different matter.

i'm only talking about information loops that are closed to the party or parties being discussed in the loop.

your fan forever,

guy

Talisa

03-26-2001, 06:49 PM

I agree with everything Guy posted above and would like to add these few comments;

1) I have known of an escort saying a particular client was good when he wasn't and she knew it.

2) I have known of escorts putting great clients on a "do not see" list because they wanted to keep the client to herself. Just because an escort says a client is bad, doesn't mean its true.

3) I have personally known of escorts to tell their more favored clients the real names of particular posters from the boards. ALL clients regardless of how obnoxious they are on the boards are entitled to an escort's confidentiality unless he did something bad to deserve being warned against but then again you cannot trust every escort to tell YOU the truth about the clients. For an escort to tell one of her client-buddies that the poster who post using the handle "A-Client" works at such and such place and his real name is such and such and he has a small penis and is impotent IS UNACCEPTABLE. How can we expect to be able to gain the necessary info we need to screen a client if escorts behave like that? Gossiping eventually gets out of hand and the info in the wrong hands can hurt a client.

While in theory to warn other escorts about a troublesome client is a good idea, in practice it doesn't work unless it is among 2 or 3 or 4 close friends who have earned each others trust. Its hard because some girls will get miffed about a bad review and make up a lie. Or in the case of the girl who got drunk and had unprotected sex with a client...he did not deserve to be outed. First, was he drunk too? If not then he doesn't care about his own health so how can he be expected to care about her? While I sympathize with her predicatment if she had not shown up for work drunk, it would not have happened.

4) George is not a client. He is a rapist and a thief and should be exposed publically for the safety of the girls. I also happen to know that George used the name of an escort who is no longer in the business as a referral thinking she could not be contacted. This ex-escort confused his identity with someone else and gave him the A-OK. So much for relying on another escort to verify a client.

I would not ask you to violate your client's privacy by confirming you saw him. I would not accept your validation over my own screening procedure. I would not want my privacy intruded upon by letting you know he had contacted me and wanted to see me. Nor would I want him telling you he saw me. I am a very private person.

I have had several clients in the past tell me about what a good friend he is with a particular escort and while in bragging mode, tell me the escorts real name i.e "Ellie Escort and I are really good friends, of course I call her by her real name Angela DelGado." This really bothers me because if Ellie Escort wanted me to know her real name, she would tell me now wouldn't she? I see a lot of lines blurred when escorts and clients begin to gossip and show off just how much they know about everybody else.

Talisa

[Edited by Talisa on 03-26-2001 at 11:47 PM]

Talisa

03-26-2001, 07:39 PM

I don't begrudge you for running your business as you see fit but I _choose_ not to take part in the referral process. Its not a process I am comfortable with being involved in and prefer my screening procedure which negates the value of a referral.

I don't care to know who a client has been with in the past. As I see it that is his personal business and not mine nor do I wish to know about it. With the internet, we are all so connected that this business does become a bit incestuous at times.

The only type of referral I have been involved in was with a client whom I just adored. Alas it became obvious I could not longer continue to see him and rather than set him lose in the sea of escorts to find someone, I first asked an escort whom I knew to be of the highest caliber if I may refer a dear valued client to her. (she does not advertise and works very privately thru client-referrals) She said yes and I told him about her and gave him her number.

I cannot control if a client of mine goes to you and gossips about me or tells you he saw me. All I can do is to live by the values I have set forth.

Also, I didn't start out with a bad view of the referral process. In fact I used to think it was a great idea until I saw how it was becoming abused.

And if you did call me for a referral, chances are I wouldn't remember who the client was unless he was a regular because I do not keep any records. The only way an escort is going to remember a client she saw once three or four years ago is the keep records and notes on him and since I don't do that, I would be of little help to you.

Talisa

[Edited by Talisa on 03-26-2001 at 11:53 PM]

guy catelli

03-26-2001, 08:06 PM

it is refreshing to see so many wonderfully outspoken women posting here at UG -- Val, Dawn, candie, K.S., Miss Witherspoon, and now Talisa.
Originally posted by Talisa
..... I have known of an escort saying a particular client was good when he wasn't and she knew it.
and what did she hope to gain? {ah, having read your intervening post, i see what happened: Gerald/George gave a reference of someone retired (who he perhaps assumed was unreachable), and, when she was contacted, she confused him with someone else and gave him a good referral. one's first reaction might be: ~what are the odds of that kind of mistake happening often?~ but, on reflection, it is just one more example of how totally unreliable these 'secret networks' (both client and escort) actually are. and for the same reason -- information that is not vetted by public comment is necessarily unreliable information.}
....For an escort to tell one of her client-buddies that the poster whose handle is A-Client .... has a small penis and is impotent IS UNACCEPTABLE.
that's just K.S.'s sense of humor; she doesn't really mean any harm. {guy running for cover.}
How can we expect to be able to gain the necessary info we need to screen a client if escorts behave like that?
seriously, that's a good question.
While in theory to warn other escorts about a troublesome client is a good idea, in practice it doesn't work unless it is among 2 or 3 or 4 close friends who have earned each others trust.
that is so true. and, i want to emphasize that, imo, the problem is not a few 'bad apples' in our barrel of clients and escorts. rather, the problem is 'systemic'. that is, there's an inherent trade-off between 'community' and 'confidentiality'. no matter what the context -- work, church, temple, school -- wherever there is 'community', 'confidentiality' applies only to the stuff that is 'boring'. anything you really wouldn't want everyone else to know is guaranteed to become a 'chip' in other peoples' game of 'i know a secret.'
...Its hard because some girls will get miffed about a bad review and make up a lie.
oh, if i had a dollar for every false thing that has been said about escorts by clients, i could comfortably retire.
.....I am a very private person.
i hear ya.
I have had several clients in the past tell me.... "Ellie Escort and I are really good friends, of course I call her by her real name Angela DelGado."
yeah, what's up with that? why do escorts want me to know their birth name -- especially since i've already become comfortable with recognizing them by their 'stage name'? i mean, did John Wayne look his friends square in the eye and say, "Call me 'Marion', pilgrim"? or, did Marilyn Monroe whisper breathlessly into JFK's ear, "Jack, you can call me 'Norma' "? :confused:

[Edited by guy catelli on 03-27-2001 at 09:18 AM]

Richardrzhpippin

03-27-2001, 05:59 AM

Let me see if I'm getting the jist of this correctly - the expectation of clients is for providers to honor the sanctity of the "Provider-Client" relationship?

My algebra is terrible, but lets see how this works!

Client-Provider = physician/patient; priest/pennitent;
attorney-client, and therapist-client? I know its been a long time since I've taken math...but something about this calculation suggests the real possibility that several hobbyists may be suffering either from a pervasive developmental disorder or early-onset Alsheimers.

[Edited by richardrzhpippin on 03-27-2001 at 10:03 AM]

littleguy

03-27-2001, 07:30 AM

G.C.

While you've clearly moved a little more towards the center of things.

While I still only understand about 50 % or so of what you say.

And while you obviously take great pains to make sure your information is accurate, do you really believe "client-only information loops, at best are juvenile, and at worst they cause severe harm to the innocent".

I guess I could agree with the "at worst" part but the "at best" part ???

You KNOW better than that.....

guy catelli

03-27-2001, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by littleguy
G.C.,

While you've clearly moved a little more towards the center of things .... I still only understand about 50 % or so of what you say.

it is the 50% you haven't followed that has been supplying the 'balance' you're only now discovering.
..... do you really believe "client-only information loops, at best are juvenile .....

that most men regress into lost adolescence when women aren't around is a commonplace beyond argument.

if you would like, i will add that there is the occasional client who is emotionally mature, and, from time to time, posts a review on a clients-only board that reflects this maturity.

however, you will rarely see such clients post on the general message boards. the rare exception notwithstanding, the 'discussions' on the general message boards are stupifyingly juvenile (even when they are attempting to be 'serious').

many of these little boys turn out to have great difficulty distinguishing a man from a woman(!), never mind recognizing more nuanced distinctions.

in a humorous vein, i still chuckle when i recall the endless speculation about Mary Lou's. after exhaustive debate and discussion, it turned out to be not unlike any other place that allows regular customers to remain an hour or so after closing. so much for the great 'objectivity', 'accuracy' and 'exclusive' information client-only boards claim to exclusively possess.

since you have asked that i focus on the subject, i will elaborate that there are two specific 'themes' to this juvenile mentality. the one is that the existence of corruption means that there is only corruption.

any adolescent can find corruption wherever he looks. the task of the mature existentialist, though, is to find the beauty and idealism that exist in spite of the corruption.

the more difficult to understand theme of this juvenile mentality has to do with the fantasy that asp's and civilian women somehow have a wholly different attitude about men once the lights go out. this is simply silly. no matter what a woman does in the 'outside world' -- from Margaret Thatcher to Bo Peep -- once she's between the sheets, she feels the same vulnerability as any other woman. same with men. it's simple.

for the sake of the balance you seek, i will point out that civilian women, in defense of their own material and emotional interests, play their part in fostering this common male delusion.

[Edited by guy catelli on 03-27-2001 at 03:24 PM]

littleguy

03-27-2001, 02:34 PM

I knew I should have kept my mouth shut, but once open.....

I asked "do you really believe "client-only information loops, at best are juvenile"

You responded "that most men regress into lost adolescence when women aren't around is a commonplace beyond argument"

Beyond argument ??? Give me a break.

"if you would like, i will add that there is the occasional client who is emotionally mature, and, from time to time, posts a review on a clients-only board that reflects this maturity"

G.C. Keep in mind you referenced a "client-only" board, no ***, which certainly doesn't apply.

"however, you will rarely see such clients post on the general message boards. the rare exception notwithstanding, the 'discussions' on the general message boards are stupifyingly juvenile (even when they are attempting to be 'serious')."

While I generally agree, I still think you're looking "down your nose" a bit here.

"since you have asked that i focus on the subject"

I don't recall asking that. I only recall asking if "you really believe "client-only information loops, at best are juvenile"

Sorry if I'm mistaken.

Ezrlove

03-27-2001, 03:03 PM

trying hard to be quite

[Edited by ezrlove on 03-27-2001 at 08:14 PM]

guy catelli

03-27-2001, 04:37 PM

much has since been deleted. but, a piece of the puzzle here, another piece there, and a clear picture came into focus. clear, at least, to those who are trained in drawing only those inferences that are warranted. no doubt, a real 'fun-house mirror' of distortions and innuendo to those who are not -- which is the vast majority.

i don't want Oz all over me about this, but even a lame public story is better than none. because, whatever the damage of going public, it's worse to invite people to conjure up any old fantasy to fill in the 'dead air'.

and, that's not jmo. that's the whole basis of the PR industry -- for good reason.

John Blackthorne

03-27-2001, 05:56 PM

Ezrlove said: "trying hard to be quite."

If I were in your position I would not have handled myself nearly as well.

I give you a lot of credit for maintaining your dignity.

jb

SkellyChamp

03-27-2001, 08:07 PM

God speaks to Catelli and Catelli speaks to the world. The Book of Catelli.

Littleguy - It is impressive that you only understand 50% of what he has to say since only 25% of it makes any sense. Catelli paints with a broad brush and uses black so that he can dismiss everything that disagrees with his view of the world. Thus Catelli spaketh with God and Catelli spaketh to the world.

Amanda Witherspoon

03-27-2001, 09:10 PM

with all due respect, you know not of what you speak. If you are to have an opinion on anything, you need all the facts, n'est-ce pas?

guy catelli

03-28-2001, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by Amanda Witherspoon
with all due respect, you know not of what you speak. If you are to have an opinion on anything, you need all the facts, n'est-ce pas?

lots of innuendo, Miss Witherspoon; but, no 'facts'.

[Edited by guy catelli on 03-28-2001 at 06:44 AM]

Ezrlove

03-28-2001, 05:34 AM

Originally posted by Amanda Witherspoon
with all due respect, you know not of what you speak. If you are to have an opinion on anything, you need all the facts, n'est-ce pas?

Amanda, since you were not in the room you also do not know the facts.

Amanda Witherspoon

03-28-2001, 09:10 AM

Ezrlove: "Since you heard everything that was said on the phone, why don't you tell us all about it. I have nothing to hide. But please make sure you have your facts straight because I have emails from her that say I was a perfect gentleman. "

You only sent me the emails YOU sent HER.

[Edited by Amanda Witherspoon on 03-28-2001 at 06:37 PM]

guy catelli

03-28-2001, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by Amanda Witherspoon
I was on the hotel phone with her at 3 in the morning, buddy, barely ten minutes after she told you to leave--while you were talking to her on her cellular phone. I heard everything you said and everything she said, so please, spare me your bullshit.

Now, this is OVER, and you are lucky--you've gotten away with it. Good for you.

Sorry, slinkybender...you can delete this at any time if you like, but this man makes me sick.

Everyone will always choose sides, regardless of whether they know the story. It's human nature.

(sigh)

I promise I won't say any more about it.

more innuendo than ever; but, so, far, the only material allegation: "...she told you to leave."

could there much less here than meets the eye?

Ezrlove

03-28-2001, 09:38 AM

Amanda wrote:

"I was on the hotel phone with her at 3 in the morning"

As I stated before, you were not in the room.

"buddy, barely ten minutes after she told you to leave"

She never told me to leave, again your facts are wrong.
One of the rumors is that she was passed out, was she coherent to you? You were on the phone with her 10 minutes after I left.

"while you were talking to her on her cellular phone. I heard everything you said and everything she said, so please, spare me your bullshit."

Since you heard everything that was said on the phone, why don't you tell us all about it. I have nothing to hide. But please make sure you have your facts straight because I have emails from her that say I was a perfect gentleman.

"you are lucky--you've gotten away with it"

Please explain to everyone on this board including myself what I got away with. You have my complete approval. Again, make sure you have your facts straight. I have documentation from her. If I had physically hurt this woman or stole money from her then my name would be posted all over the internet. If one should be punished for poor judgement then I am guilty. Amanda, please tell me what the punishment is for lying and spreading vicious rumors.

"Everyone will always choose sides, regardless of whether they know the story. It's human nature"

You are correct that everyone will choose sides. But the intelligent people choose sides after they have heard both sides of the story. The ignorant ones believe everything that they hear.

If you would like Amanda I will send you the emails she sent to me. But be prepared because light hurts your eyes when you have been kept in the dark for along time.

Ozzy

03-28-2001, 09:54 AM

i'll say it again......

NO WINNERS COME OF THIS.....

ONLY LOSERS!

Ezrlove

03-28-2001, 10:20 AM

Ozzy, I agree with you. I already lost. My reputation has been smeared across the internet.

The funny thing Ozzy, is that everyone is putting together what happen and I didn't say anything. I have been the one to keep my mouth shut while lies are being told about me.

I have heard that I am a rapist, that I brutally attacked a girl. And my race is being brought into the whole situation.

Why should I stay quite, I got nothing else to loose. And I have absolutely nothing to hide.

Slinky Bender

03-28-2001, 10:27 AM

Ozzie,
Did you ever see any of those late nite "info-mercials" for any of these fishing lures ? They all advertise the same thing......"The Bass can't resist taking this bait.....they are physically programmed to bite on this bait.........you are gaurantedd to get a hit on this bait.........". i don't know why, but I keep flashing back to these things.

Amanda,
I'm not big on deleting stuff, so it's up to you to leave it or not. I don't like conflict, so I don't like to see stuff which breeds it. The one thing I will definitely "whack" is when third parties start jumping in ( a product of my hockey playing past ) ( and yes, GC has his toes right up on that line ).

Which brings me to the editorial of the day:

On these boards, there is a lot of "action" which revolves around third parties jumping in to do things for "first parties", who have not asked for this "help" ( no one should take this to be directed at anyone here, or in this particular case - this is a general point ). Since the first parties didn't want anything done, they may have left out some details in telling their stories, since all they really wanted to do was talk to someone about something they were currently disturbed about. These third parties then take up a "cause", which results in exactly the opposite of what the first parties wanted, which an awful lot of the time was for the whole thing to die a quick and quiet death. the result is that things get all blown out of proportion, and all the parties who were actually involved get hurt in a disproportionate amount to what really happened. in other words, the aftermath of the event ends up being worse than the actual event, due to all the "help" being received. Of course, all involved have the best of intentions, but we know what the road to Hell is paved with.

Just to beat this to death, the foregoing is not directed at anyone. My point is simply that sometimes it's not in your freind's best interest to be pushed into a fight under the guise of "I got your back - go get 'em", followed by "if you're not going to get 'em, I'll do it for ya". I know we all want to fight the good fight, and I'm no one to talk when it comes to scrapping. It's just that I see a lot of stuff on the baords lately which is people "sticking up for" people, who are in the corner cringing that it is going on in their name. The problem with pissing contests is that unless you like GS, everyone ends up the worse for wear.

I'm not taking any sides in any of these matters. I just think that if the folks who are actually involved in any matter want to let it die, the rest of us shouldn't be fanning the embers, trying to re-ignite it.

If I have offended anyone, I'm sorry, but I just don't see what the real point is in creating controversy simply for controversy's sake.

littleguy

03-28-2001, 10:58 AM

EZRLOVE,

You said "Ozzy, I agree with you. I already lost. My reputation has been smeared across the internet."

I don't understand something. While I don't pretend to be anywhere near the hobbyist, say, that Ozzy is, I generally read *** (NY, Miami, Philly), Utopia Guide and a "clients-only" site which will remain nameless (not that virtually everybody here doesn't know its name anyway though), with more regularity than is probably healthy. I don't recall anything specifically naming you, or the provider for that matter, along with ANY salient facts (facts, in this case being from either you or she) of this supposedly "wrongful" encounter, yet you insist that you have been smeared "across the Internet". Could you be exaggerating somewhat ?

In the absence of facts, again only postings from either YOU or SHE, many will form opinions based on any and all hearsay. Many will not.

"The funny thing Ozzy, is that everyone is putting together what happen and I didn't say anything. I have been the one to keep my mouth shut while lies are being told about me."

I think Ozzy's advice was basically correct. If you just leave it alone, it will probably just die and nobody will remember it in a week. Sometimes though, if people not in the know keep it alive, as much as you want to let it die, perhaps you cannot. If that's the case you should let everybody know exactly your side of the story, from the horses mouth so to speak. I can tell you from personal experience, it may turn into a complete conflagration, but at least everybody will KNOW your side of the story.

"I have heard that I am a rapist, that I brutally attacked a girl. And my race is being brought into the whole situation. "

See now, where have you heard that ? I haven't heard it. Even in this thread I just read some vague innuendo about a meeting that turned a little ugly, and now I hear FROM YOU that people are saying these things ABOUT YOU.

"Why should I stay quiet, I got nothing else to loose. And I have absolutely nothing to hide."

Yet you remain silent and let those of us who are not aware of the facts just imagine (and write) what we will. BTW, YOU and some of the posters know of the incident in question but you will note than none of them refer to the participants nor any of the specific activities they are referring to or about. Obviously YOU know everything they are talking about but you should realize that unless they start naming names, the rest of us don't even know what they're talking about. Then YOU go and tell us what we didn't even know.

guy catelli

03-28-2001, 11:07 AM

philosophical point of the day:

in addition to the very enjoyable socializing (an overwhelming % of the time), the online asp boards also serve as information clearing houses for *all* escorts and clients (not just 'insiders') to make informed choices.

if people are running around shouting: 1) "there was a fire in the theater last night"; and 2) "no, there wasn't", then the rest of us have a right to know whether there's a fire hazard in the theater or whether there's someone crying wolf -- so that we, too, can make informed choices about our own safety and comfort levels.

Slinky Bender

03-28-2001, 11:22 AM

Guy,
I don't disagree with your point, except that it's "off point". To try to use your example: Folks are talking about whether the theater burned down last nite, but in fact Ralph got thrown out for lighting a cigarette in the balcony, where there is no smoking allowed. The theater management and Ralph agreed not to talk about it, but folks are arguing whether it's Ralph's fault that the theater burned down. Both Ralph and the theater are worse for the discussion, and no one is better off for it. But the idea of the theater burning down is so juicy, that folks have talked about the whole city block burning down, how the city will have to enact new arson laws, how we will have to raise taxes to cover the miliions of dollars of infrastructure repairs to the sewers, lamp posts and sidewalks which were damaged, etc.

guy catelli

03-28-2001, 11:29 AM

i just opened the chinese fortune cookie that came with my won ton soup. may both my cojones fall off if it doesn't say, verbatim: "There are some things you will never know. :)"

(i thought their putting in the smiley was rubbing it in!)

Slinky Bender

03-28-2001, 11:32 AM

I always seem to get the one that says "You really like Chinese food". Does anyone actually play the numbers they get on the fortunes ?

PS That was a lousy tip you gave me, I don't care if it was a small delivery.

[Edited by slinkybender on 03-28-2001 at 03:33 PM]

guy catelli

03-28-2001, 11:46 AM

it's simple.

i am asked by clients to recommend escorts. i am asked by escorts, "is he all right?", etc. we *all* have an interest here.

you have hypothetically posited that someone got kicked out of the no-smoking section of a theater for lighting up a cigarette. and now, the manager and the patron just want it to die.

but, it's too late for that. that begs the issue for those of us who are not in the position of the newspaper editor who is sitting on the story -- now that *he* knows what it is. the rest of us know that either someone really did get burned in the fire, or an innocent person is being accused of being an arsonist.

i think the rest of us have a right to the information for our making *our own* evaluation of who to recommend, or who not to -- going forward.

isn't that what these boards are for?

guy catelli

03-28-2001, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by slinkybender
... That was a lousy tip you gave me, I don't care if it was a small delivery.

what a nerve! that's the last time i'm 'doin the Ozzy' for you!

Amanda Witherspoon

03-28-2001, 11:55 AM

edited

[Edited by Amanda Witherspoon on 03-28-2001 at 05:51 PM]

Slinky Bender

03-28-2001, 12:01 PM

"Isn't that what the boards are for ?"

No. Certainly not this one.

You are using the same arguement that a lot of media outlets have used to get by releasing stories that they know shouldn't be released. They report as news that some other news outlet has reported something. I personally find this artifice completely distressing. The "public's right to know" is frequently used to trample the privacy of individuals. A really good news editor doesn't put up peices just to sell papers, and neither do I.

I could encourage a nice knock-down, drag out fight every day here. But I'm not interested in rubbernecking at car crashes. There are lots of ways to try and bring private info public, and then claim, "well now that it's public, it's ok to talk about it". My view is that if it shouldn't have been brought out to begin with, I'm not going to use the excuse that since someone else started in on it, that now I can further the discussion. there's always the "right to know" excuse, but almost always it is that - an excuse to talk about some else's business.

guy catelli

03-28-2001, 12:18 PM

brother Slink, you say i'm going up to the line. but, i didn't say anything the first time around. Amanda was all over the thread.

an escort posts to say she doesn't trust information from other escorts, and Amanda comes back to the board to say it's only about 'safety' -- this revelation, notwithstanding -- http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5586#post5586

now she's using coded language to destroy the reputation of a highly respected client in our community -- http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7063#post7063 . and, you're putting this on *me* for just wanting to hear both sides?

Ezrlove

03-28-2001, 12:23 PM

Amanda Wrote:

"I need to clarify one thing: I, nor the girl in question...ever said you raped anyone. That's new news to me... "

The provider in question never did call me a rapist. But when she knew this rumor was being spread because of the people SHE spoke to, she did nothing to stop the rumor. She turned her back on it.

you have mail

Slinky Bender

03-28-2001, 12:44 PM

GC,
relax.

First, I said "has his toes right up on that line" to be clearly differentiated from "over the line". Second, the point was solely regarding being a third party stepping in on an issue between two "opposing parties". Thirdly, it arose from directing the post at an individual, which I always look at with a "higher level of scrutiny" than posts which are directed at concepts/ideas/principals, which was underscored by the item following a direct quote, so there weas no doubt that it was directed at someone/someone's post. In case I haven't made it clear before now, I give LOTS of leaway here when someone wants to express ideas ( and have let lots of stuff which I'm sure offends someone or lots of someones slide ) , but I feel I must keep a much tighter leash on anything directed at persons ( people ? ).

And yes, I know I let a lot of stuff slide which is directed at you. But you're a special case.

[Edited by slinkybender on 03-28-2001 at 04:45 PM]

Ozzy

03-28-2001, 01:13 PM

:cool:

[Edited by Ozzy on 03-28-2001 at 05:14 PM]

Ozzy

03-28-2001, 01:13 PM

LG....

*** (NY, Miami, Philly) utopia.

thats two more boards than i read regularly.....

. Sometimes though, people not in the know keep it alive, as much as you want to let it die

you couldn't be more right.

:cool:

jmcurry

03-28-2001, 01:25 PM

Ezrlove: I have been away from my computer for awhile now, so I have missed this unfolding drama. Nevertheless, I have always found your posts, both here and elsewhere to be insightful, informative, and gentlemanly. Your reputation is by no means called into question by this enigmatic exchange. Those of us who value your intelligent reviews and posts will find it difficult to believe the accusations hurled at you, given your past history. Move on bro, the invectives thrown at you are best thwarted by silence, no matter how much they might sting in the short term.

jmcurry

03-28-2001, 01:30 PM

Slinky: As a long time hockey player myself, still not quite retired, I cannot envision GC ever being the "third man in." He might write about the inequities of such an incident, justify the interference on the some metaphysical grounds, or come to the aid of the poor miscreant who incurred the wrath of an unwelcome additional attacker, but I sincerely doubt that he would be the odd man into the fray.

Slinky Bender

03-28-2001, 01:37 PM

jmc,
Isn't what you said pretty close to "toeing the line" but not stepping over ???? ;)

guy catelli

03-28-2001, 02:18 PM

Slink: it's fine to say that Ralph and the movie manager want everything kept quiet. except for the fact that the movie manager's lawyer has been in the press on the matter ever since this began. and, this lawyer was not a witness to anything but subsequent hearsay. i'll grant a 'contemporaneous utterance' exception to the hearsay rule. but, we're not hearing direct testimony about the utterances -- we're hearing innuendos about the utterances.

in the last 24 hours, the manager's lawyer has made at least 4 increasingly defamatory innuendos about Ralph. i'm not talking about a *rumor* i heard; i'm talking about words i read right here. in fact, everything i've commented on about this is something i saw publicly posted -- not 'secret testimony' i claim to be accurately characterizing or interpreting, but that no one else can evaluate for themselves -- unlike postings to a public board.

jmc: i cannot add or detract from your beautifully written sports metaphor. but, i can toss out 3 words of legalese: "Danger invites rescue."

Oz: it ain't fair.

Amanda Witherspoon

03-28-2001, 02:26 PM

"now she's using coded language to destroy the reputation of a highly respected client in our community"

Oh come on, Guy. I think you know me a little better than that.

Do you really think I would yell "fire" just because someone else does? Give me some credit.

Even the mighty fall, Guy...check out what is happening to Big Louie on the ASPD.net Houston board

http://www.reviews.aspd.net/Forum250/HTML/000027.html

--he is being raked over the coals for several behavioral faux pas--one of them was he used his power of influence with several new ladies...did it happen? Well, I have to that most of the guys that were his pals say yes, it indeed did...or at least that Big Louie bragged about it. Who knows...but BL was probably THE most well-respected poster on ASPD...a legend in his own time...but even BL makes mistakes. My anger is about the mistake itself--and the fact that we are all adults and should know better about certain things--there are no second chances here--no amount of apologies that can correct the situation.

What a mess. You wanna know why I brought this up again? Because EZrlove did--with his "I'm just keeping quiet" and that other guys' crap about "Oh poor EZrlove". POOR NOTHING. What a crock. Every day, guys who do the same thing are all over the country, and they all get away with it...why? Because the girl is a hooker. That's what it boils down to. Fuck that. Some have said, "But we had an emotional connection." My ass. If that's true, the right thing would have been done in the first place.

Consequences. Yeah, there are consequences. For Ezrlove? Hell no, all he has to do is get a new handle. She freaking QUIT over this--and is now only seeing two regular clients she trusts at home. What the hell does that tell you?

Reputation--shee-it, you guys have it easy. Don't bark at me about reputation. You have no clue.

Ezrlove, dude, I'm sure you're a nice guy and all, but you fucked up. That's all there is to it. If there are no consequences for you, then we are all screwed. Sorry, but that's how it is. I'm sure you aren't a rapist or a beater or any of that...what I think is you got stupid and you got selfish--and those two are dangerous when you've been drinking and partying with a beautiful girl...but unfortunately most men think that because they are paying for it they are entitled to more privileges...

So you will have to forgive me if I get mad when I see you posting regularly, contributing back into the fold...when my friend can't even log on to this site because she will get flamed up one side and down the other. Forgive me that I'm mad that everyone wants this swept under the rug all nice and neat and pretty...and no one believes her...or at the very least, they are skeptical...and that's enough for me. Why? Well, why do you think?

In Dallas about two weeks ago, there was a girl murdered who was touring from Richardson (right outside D) and she worked for an agency there. The guys on ASPD had a fit about it...pleading with each other.."Oh, we must take care of our girls, protect them...do whatever we can...they are our ladies..." puffing out their chests and patting each other on the back for simply being men....so we girls come up with an idea for a pager system for three girls in Houston, and three girls in Dallas...(to be the "big sisters" for touring girls and newbies)...and asked the guys to help and.....NOTHING. Not a word. The thread has been moved down the list, replaced with topics such as "Enhanced or Real?" and "Who is your ATF?"

I guess you can only expect so much, hmmm?

Perhaps I am just getting jaded after three years.

Either way, it makes my blood boil.

Slinky Bender

03-28-2001, 02:29 PM

I disagree again. If the Theater manager's lawyer were making statements, I think it would be different. When a lawyer makes statments saying what they would do if they represented the Theater manager, it's not the same thing. In each of the recent cases I've seen, every case has people talking who have not been appointed by the parties as their spokespeople, and that's where the problem lies. Remember, I have not seen anyone make the argument that the actual people involved don't want this quiet. I know you like to talk about lawyers, but this time I think you are out of line, since we are not talking about some who has been hired as an advocate. Someone acting on thier own, against the wishes of a party, does not become that party's lawyer. They are simply advocating their own viewpoints.

Soory counsellor, you are arguing facts not in evidence.

Slinky Bender

03-28-2001, 02:39 PM

Amanda,

One nitpick:
"...when my friend can't even log on to this site because she will get flamed up one side and down the other."

I don't think that's fair. I don't think there is any good reason to believe that is true. Aside from Guy, I don't think anyone on this site has been "flamed up one side and down the other". In fact, I would wager that if it were not for this thread ( and even possibly with this thread ), if your friend posted here no one would say "boo", except to answer whatever points she brought up directly. Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't think the evidence points that way. Certainly it's not based on her posting here and it happening in the past, unless I've missed something that somehow appeared here and I didn't see ( which I don't think is all that likely ).

guy catelli

03-28-2001, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by Amanda Witherspoon
"now she's using coded language to destroy the reputation of a highly respected client in our community"

Oh come on, Guy. I think you know me a little better than that.............. Every day, guys who do the same thing are all over the country, and they all get away with it...why?

"do" what!?! this is what i mean by unfair innuendo.

yes, i do know you well enough to know that you are sincere.

but, that's not the same as saying that i think EZ is getting a fair deal here. see what i mean?

and, yes, escorts are judged by a double standard. no client in cyberspace has ever been more adament about this than i. but, guess what -- so are black clients prejudged by a different standard than other clients.

omigod -- is this Clarence and Anita?

i happened to have been thought incoherent by all of my lawyer friends when i insisted that both of them believed their own recollection and interpretation of events.

then Bill Clinton came out and said the same thing. since all of my friends are Clinton supporters, suddenly my position wasn't so incoherent anymore.

so, did EZ do something even worse than ask, "what's this pubic hair doing on my can of coke?"

please don't tell me that he actually had sex with that woman! that would be beyond-the-beyond.

Ozzy

03-28-2001, 04:03 PM

guy.......

lifes not fair!

:cool:

John Blackthorne

03-28-2001, 04:47 PM

My post referred to the accusations of rape...in fact, drugging her and raping her that still stand in a certain person's venue.

That fact was unknown to you..but not to me.

I didn't mean to ruffle feathers, but if I had been falsely accused of rape I would have been more vocal about it.

jb

[Edited by John Blackthorne on 03-28-2001 at 08:48 PM]

Ezrlove

03-28-2001, 04:56 PM

Amanda

"You wanna know why I brought this up again? Because EZrlove did--with his "I'm just keeping quiet"

I didn't bring the subject up. Talisa did on 03-26-2001 10:49 PM

"You only sent me the emails YOU sent HER"

I sent you the emails I sent her and the one and only email she sent me.

You wrote "Every day, guys who do the same thing are all over the country, and they all get away with it...why? Because the girl is a hooker."

What is it that we do and get away with? Please explain
You keep making innuendos but you never explain. If I treated the provider like a hooker I wouldn't take a day off from work and pick her up from the airport. Just so she could see a smiling face when she landed.I wouldn't book a session for 5 hours at the rate of a traveling provider. I wouldn't take her out to dinner and drinks. I wouldn't carry her personal belongings on the date so she didn't have to lug around a purse. She wouldn't have called me a perfect gentleman if I treated her like a hooker.

"Consequences. Yeah, there are consequences. For Ezrlove? Hell no, all he has to do is get a new handle"

I never uttered her name to any hobbyist. So her reputation is in take. You may say that all I have to do is change my handle but she sent all my business information and my name to a person who has a major forum. I am sure that when the rumor was being spread that I am a rapist and a woman beater that my real name was attached to the rumor.

"Ezrlove, dude, I'm sure you're a nice guy and all"

Save your compliments I don't need them or want them.

"but you fucked up"

Again, please explain my mess ups.

"I'm sure you aren't a rapist or a beater or any of that"

If I am not any of those things then what the hell did I do that was so bad? Why are people calling me those things? And if those are the two things that allows a provider to out a client then why did I get outed?

"what I think is you got stupid and you got selfish--and those two are dangerous when you've been drinking and partying with a beautiful girl"

So everything that happens is my responsibility. Are you saying that the provider has no responsibility for her actons?

"when my friend can't even log on to this site because she will get flamed up one side and down the other"

I am sorry maybe I missed it but could you show me where your friend has been mentioned by name. And if she were to get flamed it would be because she broke the number one rule. CONFIDENTIALITY

"Forgive me that I'm mad that everyone wants this swept under the rug all nice and neat and pretty...and no one believes her...or at the very least, they are skeptical"

I will not forgive you. If she had not broken the number one rule then she would not have to worry about what everyone thinks about her. I don't understand, what is it that people don't believe? What is it that people or skeptical about?

For all you guys twho want to know what this is all about just read the post by Talisa on 03-26-2001 10:49 PM. The comment she makes about the guy who had unprotected sex. That was me. I made a very poor judgement. And I have no excuses.

Since that night providers across the nation have heard that she fell a sleep and I raped her. That she woke and I was ontop of her. They have heard that I brutually attacked her. And that black men act this way.

I think what Amanda is trying to say is that I took advantage of the providers trust. That the provider trusted me so much that she drank alittle to much and I knowingly took liberties.

Did I make a mistake? YES. Was there intent? NO

[Edited by ezrlove on 03-28-2001 at 08:58 PM]

guy catelli

03-28-2001, 04:58 PM

does all this boil down to that someone stuck it in uncovered; and she got mad and told him to leave; and because he followed the ~just don't say anything and it will go away~ advice, this is what happened to him?

[Edited by guy catelli on 03-28-2001 at 08:59 PM]

guy catelli

03-28-2001, 05:14 PM

.

[Edited by slinkybender on 03-29-2001 at 01:49 PM]

Casper

03-28-2001, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by slinkybender
Ozzie,
On these boards, there is a lot of "action" which revolves around third parties jumping in to do things for "first parties", who have not asked for this "help"
I'm not taking any sides in any of these matters. I just think that if the folks who are actually involved in any matter want to let it die, the rest of us shouldn't be fanning the embers, trying to re-ignite it.

Amen brother and all third parties should not fan the flames. IMHO in a sensative situation such as this one, should you need to know something, email the person directly. I, like SB, dislike and stay away from comenting on these types of situations because what goes around, comes around.
Had the details not been mentioned on here, I would still have been content in not knowing who the parties were in the discussion.
I hope for all concerned, that this blows over soon.

Peace out
C

littleguy

03-28-2001, 06:40 PM

Amanda,

Ezrlove just told us here what HE said happened.

Care to explain your understanding of the events, or BETTER STILL, have the lady explain her side of he story.

Does this sound familar to anybody, or is it just me ?

guy catelli

03-28-2001, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by Ezrlove
Amanda,

"You wanna know why I brought this up again? Because EZrlove did--with his "I'm just keeping quiet"

I didn't bring the subject up. Talisa did on 03-26-2001 10:49 PM

"You only sent me the emails YOU sent HER"

I sent you the emails I sent her and the one and only email she sent me.

You wrote "Every day, guys who do the same thing are all over the country, and they all get away with it...why? Because the girl is a hooker."

What is it that we do and get away with? Please explain
You keep making innuendos but you never explain. If I treated the provider like a hooker I wouldn't take a day off from work and pick her up from the airport. Just so she could see a smiling face when she landed.I wouldn't book a session for 5 hours at the rate of a traveling provider. I wouldn't take her out to dinner and drinks. I wouldn't carry her personal belongings on the date so she didn't have to lug around a purse. She wouldn't have called me a perfect gentleman if I treated her like a hooker.

"Consequences. Yeah, there are consequences. For Ezrlove? Hell no, all he has to do is get a new handle"

I never uttered her name to any hobbyist. So her reputation is in take. You may say that all I have to do is change my handle but she sent all my business information and my name to a person who has a major forum. I am sure that when the rumor was being spread that I am a rapist and a woman beater that my real name was attached to the rumor.

"Ezrlove, dude, I'm sure you're a nice guy and all"

Save your compliments I don't need them or want them.

"but you fucked up"

Again, please explain my mess ups.

"I'm sure you aren't a rapist or a beater or any of that"

If I am not any of those things then what the hell did I do that was so bad? Why are people calling me those things? And if those are the two things that allows a provider to out a client then why did I get outed?

"what I think is you got stupid and you got selfish--and those two are dangerous when you've been drinking and partying with a beautiful girl"

So everything that happens is my responsibility. Are you saying that the provider has no responsibility for her actons?

"when my friend can't even log on to this site because she will get flamed up one side and down the other"

I am sorry maybe I missed it but could you show me where your friend has been mentioned by name. And if she were to get flamed it would be because she broke the number one rule. CONFIDENTIALITY

"Forgive me that I'm mad that everyone wants this swept under the rug all nice and neat and pretty...and no one believes her...or at the very least, they are skeptical"

I will not forgive you. If she had not broken the number one rule then she would not have to worry about what everyone thinks about her. I don't understand, what is it that people don't believe? What is it that people or skeptical about?

For all you guys twho want to know what this is all about just read the post by Talisa on 03-26-2001 10:49 PM. The comment she makes about the guy who had unprotected sex. That was me. I made a very poor judgement. And I have no excuses.

Since that night providers across the nation have heard that she fell a sleep and I raped her. That she woke and I was ontop of her. They have heard that I brutually attacked her. And that black men act this way.

I think what Amanda is trying to say is that I took advantage of the providers trust. That the provider trusted me so much that she drank alittle to much and I knowingly took liberties.

Did I make a mistake? YES. Was there intent? NO

ref: "You wanna know why I brought this up again? Because EZrlove did--with his "I'm just keeping quiet"

I didn't bring the subject up. Talisa did on 03-26-2001 10:49 PM

Amanda, *you* tipped over the bee hive by trying to 'spin' Talisa's post on why she had no faith in escort-only networks.

you just got 'outspun', hon. ;)

[Edited by guy catelli on 03-29-2001 at 12:05 AM]

Amanda Witherspoon

03-28-2001, 07:25 PM

Please check your email, Little Guy. I think you'll understand why I won't respond to Ezrlove.

SB, I really meant that SHE feels she can't come on here and post...she doesn't want to, anyway...

That's all--I'm outtie.

Food for thought: I'm not anybody's lawyer or spokesperson--but she and I are best friends. I am not advocating her, per se...but I am advocating against irreprehensible behavior.

Amanda

candie

03-28-2001, 07:27 PM

Gosh how I hate drama queens, how come she went out on a booking the VERY NEXT DAY?

I don't respect providers who drink so much on a booking!

Slinky Bender

03-28-2001, 07:38 PM

Amanda,
I'm sorry if she feels that way. As I said, I don't think it's warranted, but we often can't help what we feel.

SkellyChamp

03-28-2001, 08:39 PM

Littleguy,
I didn't want to be the one to say it, but now that you did.. oh yeah very familiar. Eerily similar don't you think.

Sort of like watching The Philadelphia Story back to back. The first with Kate, Cary and Jimmy and then the one with Grace, Frank and Bing. Same story, different players.

Curious as to how this all makes you feel now that you are outside looking in. Any different prespectives. Ozzy too.

Ozzy

03-29-2001, 02:37 AM

just so you know....i never faulted anyone in that other issue on jag....it was the whole situation that the YOUNG girl was in(her drinking and those posts that alluded to it) that lead to things like that. i always said(and told this to BOTH who were involved...."that only two people were in that room, and i wasn't one of them". my prespective hasn't changed one bit.......

btw, that new review(on that young girl) that mentions how heavy she drinks and how bombed they both got, won't help things much in the near future for her.....except that this time around....i wont be there to help her because, I DON'T GIVE A SHIT!

BUT LET JUST SEE HOW RIGHT I WAS WHEN IT COMES TO POSTING THINGS LIKE THAT.

:cool:

[Edited by Ozzy on 03-29-2001 at 06:39 AM]

guy catelli

03-29-2001, 04:34 AM

Originally posted by Amanda Witherspoon
I am not advocating her, per se...but I am advocating against irreprehensible behavior.

Amanda

Amanda,

you have some nerve, at this juncture, calling anyone else's behavior reprehensible.

a client who had a few stuck it in uncovered. by that standard, i think a lot of us have been "irreprehensible".

but, how many of us, as an officious and intermeddling 3rd party, have conducted an, at first, *secret* war, and then, an increasingly public *smear* campaign of nasty innuendo to destroy a man who just happens to be black -- trying to live his life by the same rules as the rest of us, and, on the whole, doing a vastly better job of it than most people of whatever color?

he made one miscall in a moment of passion, for which he has suffered beyond all proportion to the offense. he has {at long last} made a full public accounting and accepted his share of responsibility.

we have yet to hear one word from you about the ethics of a professional, in *any* profession, getting drunk while 'on duty', and then silently abetting a campaign to destroy her client for the predictable consequences of her own unprofessionalism.

the bottom line is that his offense was momentary, spontaneous, and without malice. yours has been calculating, premeditated, malicious, and has continued even unto your most recent post.

maybe your m.o. is working for you in cow towns in the heartland. but, it's bombed big-time in ny and la.

[Edited by guy catelli on 03-29-2001 at 08:38 AM]

SkellyChamp

03-29-2001, 08:00 AM

Ozzy

I am very a familiar about what went on over there and yours and everyone else's role. I was just curious if what happened here changed or colored your views at all of that event.

Guy,

No one can dispute that I'm not your biggest fan (or that you should give 2 shits about that fact). But I'm not above (or below) chiming in when you make a post that I agree with (for the most part anyway). Good post.

guy catelli

03-29-2001, 08:54 AM

please allow me to retore some balance here. my long-held view remains unchanged that Miss Witherspoon is a person of far higher character than most.

as noted already, i paid her cash up-front a month in advance of our appointment, without the slightest concern that she would betray my trust. (believe me on this one,) there are few people to whom i would extend such trust, in any calling.

further, at no advantage to herself, she knowingly subjected herself to great subsequent public abuse, and threatened boycott, for publicly posting her a *very* favorable review of me as a client. it's called "character".

but, alas, idealism is an imperfect moral compass. and, as i noted to her earlier, just after the bookish Roberta had taken some gentle teasing about her gift list, sometimes we are more aggressive in defense of another than we would be in defense of ourself.

i once made a complete fool of myself in attacking someone on behalf of (and at the instigation of) an escort who turned out to be not a fellow idealist, but rather a crass opportunist.

thus, the Achilles heel of the idealist is the risk of losing 'perspective'. when a friend is hurt, we lose sight of our friend's part in the matter, and whatever mitigating qualities our friend's enemy (of the moment) might possess.

meanwhile, Miss Witherspoon has gotten herself knee deep in a cow pasture on a rainy day in spring.

the second wisest bit of folk wisdom i've ever heard is a part of the refrain in Kenny Roger's hit tune, The Gambler: "You gotta know when to hold 'em, and when to fold 'em..." Miss Witherspoon held onto a bad hand way too long, and wound up feeling like she had been driven from the table.

TC might be interested to know that back home in Houston, Miss Witherspoon has made a custom of running occasional 'specials', so that Wal-Mart shoppers can sometimes have the same experiences as the Armani-oids.

few escorts are so big-hearted. indeed, few human beings are as big-hearted as Miss Witherspoon (takes one to know one, hon ;)). let's just say this was an occasion when too much feeling with her heart, and too little thinking with her head, led to a major 'blonde moment'.

[Edited by slinkybender on 03-29-2001 at 02:04 PM]