Crossing The Line!

[Carl M]

My brothers I need some help! What do you do when you meet an amazing provider and you fall in love(Sorry to protect the inocent no name will be given out) She is so perfect in every way- pretty,personable, honest, classy, she is like a rare exotic flower- to be cherished for all eternity! Feebdack would be appreciated!

[wimpy]

Run the other way. It happen to me many years ago. The provider used to invite me to house, cook dinner. It really felt like this was it. But it never happened. My heart was broken.

Run, get the hell out!!! Carl have given me advice many times on who to see. You have always been straight forward with me. MY turn now!! Run!!

[guy catelli]

brother Carl M,

this subject has been endlessly dissected on other boards, as has the reverse situation (a thread currently in progress elsewhere).

there is a general feeling that falling in love with an escort is somehow like falling in love with a Martian -- a wholly otherworld-like situation. it is not.

in terms of the risk/reward ratio, obviously it is somewhat higher here than in the civilian world. on the other hand, the risks to being emotionally vulnerable to someone else, even in the civilian world, are already so high that a reasonable and prudent person would *never* fall in love with *anyone*, period. that fact of life is the sum and substance of virtually every country and western or blues tune ever composed!

my personal preferance is to take my own counsel in matters of the heart, not that of even my closest friends, or that of any 'experts', no matter how experienced, cr****tialed, or well meaning.

but, i appreciate your desire to tell the world you have fallen in love. so, enjoy the ride, my brother ;).

[TuckernotSucker]

Carl,
I associate your situation to one of a Top Notch Salesman.
When he gets home at night his loved ones tell him to "turn it off". That is the life of a provider. Sweet, kind, nymphomaniac like actions. Turned off when real life comes a knockin'.
Now that the bullshit is out of the way------Marry this girl and hump forever happy.

[Ozzy]

throw yourself off a roof.......


now!

[Ash]

100 bucks says that this girl turns into a typical Carl M, "Email me for a girl you'll fall in love with"

[One Eyed Trouser Trout]

Time to start thinking with the big head bro....

Factor in the cost of dissolution of your professional ventures, marital ventures, stuff....


"Honey...I've fallen in love with a hooker".....

Ba da ba bing. Ba da ba boom. 50% off the top when wifey wins the divorce.

[Carl M]

I guess I can take all of you guys advice, except as Brother OO states Hari-Kari is out of the question- that would be the cowards way out!. Believe me if the situation was right, which could happen down the road- what brother Tucker states would be perfect- except to be true to my love I would have to give up the hobby and I would miss you guys! We shall see where fate takes me, I hope not to oblivion or worse penniless as Brother Trout states!

[MrNY]

use the big head for thinking, dude !

[Assman]

Not only does Carl promise providers a good review and multiple posts if they cut their fee for him, now he is falling in love with someone who only sees him if he pays.

[Ozzy]

carl, i've crossed that line twice and the last time was a month ago.

the first time was all about fun for a few weeks and she was also retired at the time and was moving down south shortly afterwards. so it never had a chance of anything else so there was no presure or emotions (love) involved.

the second time was last month and as i stated in a thread here on UG ("length of session" thread) it was also about fun and not a case of being in love.......

this one was a disaster for all involved and some who weren't.......


if you don't want to be a coward..........

than jump with your eyes open and do it off a taller bldg so you don't miss.

[Geezy Muldoon]

job

[Edited by Judge Crater on 07-25-2001 at 02:40 PM]

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Judge Crater
If she ... receives psychotherapy for a year (you may want to attend these sessions as well),....If you are married and have children, forget about it unless you would like to pay for expensive psychotherapy sessions...... anyone really serious about taking up with a provider should go for counseling first ......

"counseling" is every bit as much a case of mutual delusion (or worse) as religion. as with religion, mutual delusion can be very helpful (as confirmed by secular research).

however, counseling is vastly more expensive than all but the most avaricious religions, and its 'success rate' (if it even warrants that description) is miniscule by comparison with religion's.

a good escort is the best therapist. a cr****tialed psychoanalyst is the absolute worst.

but, my brothers, there is no cure for love! ;)


[Edited by guy catelli on 02-05-2001 at 04:14 PM]

[badz]

.

[Edited by badz on 05-23-2001 at 09:53 PM]

[Geezy Muldoon]

cure for love.

[Edited by Judge Crater on 07-25-2001 at 02:42 PM]

[justme]

primarily rely on the intellectual energy and desire for change of clients

Riiiiiiiiight.

[Coyote]

Don't do it. I really wish you well in your private love life but it is rarely found with ASPs. The best are
trully wonderful empaths, specialists at making you feel important, at listening and showing sensitivity. But to her, it is inherently a busines, purely business. From someone who's been there and come back from the edge and found it better that way. If you profess your affections, what if she says to you, more or less, "well it's a business." Then you feel like you let your feelings hang out and you just end up getting hurt. I agree with Ozzy, at least in spirit. He just doesn't want to see you get hurt, as do I.

[jmcurry]

Carl: I am somewhat reluctant to admit that I was recently in the same situation, but that reality betrays any denial. I have seen one particular provider for about six years (although not exclusively), and I definitely became infatuated with her over the past year. She professed similar affections, but our relationship was complicated by manifold, understandable problems on her side. As an aside, I am single and travel way too much to consider a family lifestyle. At any rate, recently our relationship has become problematic. That eventuality has pained me, largely because she now refuses to contact me or respond to my phone calls or emails.

I seem to be learning "on the job." This lesson has unfortunately confirmed that falling for a provider in a manner beyond the dictates of the hobby is tantamount to personal destruction. Now I have no contact with the provider that I most value, nor do I have any communication with someone who became my friend. I may be jaded, but the advice that evolves from this experience is to keep your guard up; the alternative is hurtful and unnecessary. I keep trying to ascertain where I went wrong. I welcome any responses, although I remain overly pessimistic about my future relationship with this particular individual.

[One Eyed Trouser Trout]

Carl has replied to the initial offerings....

Come to think of it, I almost married a prostitute....

"I wanna 3ct diamond ring honey"

"This SUV really sucks...can't you afford a Beamer?"

"I don't care if you did loose 15 pounds, those pants are hanging on you...go get new ones"

"Why can't I decide where we go on the honeymoon?"


"When are you putting my name on the deed to the house?"

Bottom line boyz (and girls)...these are the things my betrothed said for the occasional GFE I got.

Rarely did I hear....I love you.

So, you tell me. Prostitute or not?


Carl....don't do it. Remember...pussy is just pussy. History can't be bought or replaced.

[Phantom]

In some way I'm an eternal optimist. Even I've gone through twice myself, that's right I'm a two time loser, I still have to keep the hope alive that maybe one day it will work out for me.

My advice to you, DON'T GET INVOLVED!! You put so much of yourself into that when it all fails apart, it's absolute hell

[jmcurry]

Not getting involved looks like the best strategy, although it is not as much fun. Why is this so difficult?

[Phantom]

I asked the girl I spent the past weekend with "what does it take to cross the line from client to something more". Her answer basically was that the guy had to litterally have a ton of money.

[fletch]

Sounds like that guy (the one with a "ton of money") would still be a client anyway.

[Phantom]

Aren't even married guys "clients" with their wives?

[Edited by Phantom on 02-05-2001 at 07:31 PM]

[justme]

Originally posted by Phantom
Aren't even married guys "clients" with their wives?

[Edited by Phantom on 02-05-2001 at 07:31 PM]

I hope not.

[Phantom]

Maybe the only guys who aren't clients with their wives are the guys who still provide for them, but get nothing including sex from them.

[Ash]

Originally posted by Phantom
I asked the girl I spent the past weekend with "what does it take to cross the line from client to something more". Her answer basically was that the guy had to litterally have a ton of money.


Why would you want to cross the line with someone who answered with this?

[Ozzy]

because she is a very sweet person who tells it like it is.


she told me the same thing though i never posed that question to her.

[Phantom]

I only asked her to pick her mind. To try and get an insight as to what it takes. it was not her that I was hoping to cross the line with, but with someone else.

She had given me a couple of examples were the guy succeded in crossing the line and in each case the guy was extremely wealthly. After hearing what she had to say I asked if she felt that basically the guy had to have a ton of money and she answered yes.

[Phantom]

Like Ozzy said, Pam is a very honest, tell it like it is girl. She is also very sweet. I've seen Pam a couple of more times then Ozzy. Pam knows of my past with certain escorts. Just wanted to get her opinion on things. Who better to ask then an escort about what it takes to cross the line?

[LIDAWN]

do not go falling in love then who will i have lunch with... pout.....
ther should be enough of you to go around..

What is up sugar can i help in some way talk to me u got quiet today...
Waiting to hear from you..
HUGZZZ ME

[Saint Bart]

CarlM saw Lauren of Miami -

That's my guess, having been there myself.

If you need a shoulder, bro, it's saintbart@hushmail.com

[nj george]

carl, ask yourself this question: do you love her because you need her? or do you need her because you love he?/ obviously one is closer to true love than the other.

[badz]

.

[Edited by badz on 05-23-2001 at 09:53 PM]

[pswope]

While I don't reject the long shot possibility of a succesful relationship commenced as working girl and john ,if any of you gents pursue intimate relationships,solely through initiation as a commercial one,than you should strongly consider following J. Crater's sage advice and get practical therapy.
Before,you can beat the odds of starting as a John,you have to be able to address the issue as to why that's the only way you seek intimacy with women.*


(n.b.-I'm not being judgemental but talking from the experience of having had an affair with a working girl. After the obvious rush of having an extraordinary beautiful and sexy woman,who charged others, cater to me for free,I realized that this relationship was just an excuse to avoid true intimacy,which implies giving of yourself for more than 2 hours at a time)
_____________________________________________
*...."Some men will drive to the edges of no where
so they can take a peek into the great abyss
some men avoid love like it is a plague or somethin
so they can leave the seat down when they piss..."



[Edited by pswope on 02-06-2001 at 08:52 AM]

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by jmcurry
Carl: I am somewhat reluctant to admit that I was recently in the same situation, but that reality betrays any denial. I have seen one particular provider for about six years (although not exclusively), and I definitely became infatuated with her over the past year. She professed similar affections, but our relationship was complicated by manifold, understandable problems on her side. As an aside, I am single and travel way too much to consider a family lifestyle. At any rate, recently our relationship has become problematic. That eventuality has pained me, largely because she now refuses to contact me or respond to my phone calls or emails.

I seem to be learning "on the job." This lesson has unfortunately confirmed that falling for a provider in a manner beyond the dictates of the hobby is tantamount to personal destruction. Now I have no contact with the provider that I most value, nor do I have any communication with someone who became my friend. I may be jaded, but the advice that evolves from this experience is to keep your guard up; the alternative is hurtful and unnecessary. I keep trying to ascertain where I went wrong. I welcome any responses, although I remain overly pessimistic about my future relationship with this particular individual.

jmc

is it not better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all?

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by pswope:

....if any of you gents pursue intimate relationships,solely through initiation as a commercial one, than you should strongly consider following J. Crater's sage advice and get practical therapy.
Before,you can beat the odds of starting as a John,you have to be able to address the issue as to why that's the only way you seek intimacy with women.*...

"any" of us are not asking for advice. only Carl M is. "you should strongly consider..." that you have no qualifications for performing diagnosis-at-a-distance of people quite unlike yourself with whom you are barely acquainted.

(n.b.-I'm not being judgemental...

by itself, such striking lack of insight into your own motivation calls into serious question your insight into others.

but talking from the experience of having had an affair with a working girl. After the obvious rush of having an extraordinary beautiful and sexy woman,who charged others, cater to me for free,I realized that this relationship was just an excuse to avoid true intimacy,which implies giving of yourself for more than 2 hours at a time)

i, for one, welcome your sharing this about yourself. really, i do.

(again, as i urged my audio-utilitarian colleagues with respect to people who claimed greater listening enjoyment from listening through $500+ speaker wires than physics-indistinguishable ones from radio shack: ) i think all of these boards would be much better off, and that there would be a much higher quality of sharing, if people who haven't (or, wish they hadn't already ;)) gotten something more out of this thing of ours than sex4$ would stop publicly characterizing those of us who have and are considering continuing to do so as either 'naive' or in need of being 'cured' by someone of something we're not complaining about in the first place.

i'm not going to deny i'm being 'judgmental' about the 'judges'. of course, i am. but, i'm trying to avoid being 'offensive' about being judgmental. i sincerely hope that i have succeeded in being candid, without being offensive.



[Edited by guy catelli on 02-06-2001 at 08:55 AM]

[dicer5]

I am not saying this to offend anyone; but for everyone who's fallen for a woman, do you guys think that any one of them felt the same way about you.(this is a serious question and not a rhetorical one). I just ask because most of the posts are talking about the guy falling for a provider without mentioned if the woman felt the same way. And if you think she feels that same way, how do you know its real or her just being really good at being a provider. It just seems like trouble if you start this thing thinking that you might be able to develop a relationship with a provider

[dicer5]

also, i understand the fact that when a person sees a woman a few times, he may start developing feelings for the lady. but i always thought that usually the lady is someone who many people may feel the same way about(how great she is and all that stuff guys write about), so i always thought that the best way to look at it is that its not you that's special but she's special and she is very good at making the men she sees feel good about themselves.

[pswope]

Dicer
The true greats and obviously most succesful,not only make their cleints feel good physically,but feel good about themselves as well.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by dicer5
....do you guys think that any one of them felt the same way about you.(this is a serious question and not a rhetorical one)....

escorts writing about their own 'forbidden love' (ie, for clients) has consumed oceans of bandwidth. here's one recent example: http://www.*********.net/discussion/posts/34832.html

note well: the authoress says she has already read about this 'millions' of times; and, ironically, that she had argued the 'other side', until it happened to her!. suddenly, she realizes what the 'other side' have been experiencing all along.

i have a more tantalizing bit of evidence (because it was impliedly written for an escort-only audience) stored on my hard drive at home. i'll try to find it when i get back there tonight.

[pswope]

Mr C
With all due respect,both the implicit nature of a message board like this as well as a post such as Mr Curry's invite response,opinion and judgement. To the extent we get to know some of our colleagues and care to a certain degree about them,we respond. Not to gratuitously criticize,but perhaps to help enlighten.
Mr Curry(or any other poster to whom my post might have applied) is perfectly capable of assessing any post responding to his and treating it as he deems appropriate.

I also must reject your admonitiion(or request)to refrain from commenting on johns,who seek "romance" from commercial sex relationships.
Again to extent,we seek some form of enlightenment from this to ignore,what some might regard as patently unhealthy behavior is to do these johns a disservice.As ostensibly intelligent people,all are free to reject whatever is posted here.
If a poster noted that he avoids the pain of his life by shooting heroin daily,should we ignore that as a valid recourse to self healing?

[Phantom]

GC,

is it not better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all?

[/B][/QUOTE]

And a taste of honey is worse then none at all.

[jmcurry]

Guy, I have loved many times, but only one of those women happened to be a "provider." Accordingly, responses as unfeeling as your last one only alienate and patronize, they do not enlighten. I never represented my personal situation in this case as an act of desperation. In fact, it was the complete antithesis. I never expected to be smitten, resisted that complication because I understood it would jeopardize a relationship with someone whom I cared for a great deal, and am now trying to rebuild a friendship that was compromised by my own stupidity.

Carl M's missive compelled me to share my own experience. That is the reason for my post. I am not certain that loving and losing beats never loving in every scenario. Granted, I got too close and am now reaping the harvest. Yet, the fault is mine, not the provider's. Responding to sincere reflections with literary quotations is one-upsmanship of the worst kind. If you care to insult me, do it directly.

[jmcurry]

Dicer, you have perfectly problematized the ultimate conundrum, regarding "providers" and "johns" who form relationships of a kind, outside the normal parameters of the hobby. The macho in me hopes that the only provider for whom I have ever fallen was equally, or somewhat, interested in me as well. That may or may not be true. Yet, as "johns" or "hobbyists" we ultimately face the reality that we buy a service, which excludes real affection. I did not willingly become infatuated with my favorite "provider." It just happened, in this case. I wish that it had not occurred. It has needlessly complicated my life and perhaps separated me from someone (the provider) who could be a potential friend. (To those of you who believe that friendship between "johns" and "providers" is impossible, I urge you to consider both experiences in Vietnam and in Manhattan during the leisure spa era). I appreciate your insight and wish I could respond with some certaintly about the extent to which my "provider" cares (or cared) about me. Sadly, I cannot. That in itself may explain Carl's original post.

[guy catelli]

"if love cannot equal be, let me be the one that loves more." (wh auden)

[Rufus Moses]

Or in the case of Utopia Guide readers:

If love cannot equal be, let me be the one that pays.

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by Rufus Moses
Or in the case of Utopia Guide readers:

If love cannot equal be, let me be the one that pays.

or, if ymmv, let me be the one that pays less ;)