JAG is host of new Julie's web site - JAG is not Consumer Reports anymore!

[Rufus Moses]

Aww shucks guys...just do'in the right thing...

But if there were an award I'd accept the equivalent in Euro's...and spend them wisely on my next visit to Amsterdam...

;)

[Rufus Moses]

Previously there have been extended discussions about how the current operator of JAG, MadChaos, and John B are likely the same person...and how JAG has turned its back on its original members and its promised mission by providing those on the supply side (i.e. "providers") access, by shilling for providers out of self-interest, by investing in providers business, by lying to its members about all of this, and by throwing permanent and founding members off the board for making this public.

http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2356

More recently MC/John B was accused of (some would say shown to be) slamming April in order to benefit Julie.

http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=4459&goto=nextnewest

Recently we discovered that when Julie's new web site was opened those of us blocked from accessing JAG (based on IP number because we criticized MC) were now also blocked from accessing Julie's new web site.

http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=4887

Now we have strong evidence that JAG is also the new website service provider for Julie's. This is something you can verify for yourself. First note that the IP numbers of the two sites are the same except for the last number (called an "octet").

jaginfo.net - 209.236.222.188

julienyc.com - 209.236.222.162

Both are in what is called a Class C network, which means a single entity owns all of the addresses in the 209.236.222.* subdomain. (Ask a networking guru about this...it is indicated by the first octet "209").

I know MadChaos (aka John B) owns a business with multiple machines on the internet...from my e-mail discussions with him during the time I turned operation of JAG over to him.

What is clear, in effect, is that JAG is now providing web service for Julie's.

(This may also explain why Julie has suddenly disappeared from UG...JAG/MC/JohnB being in some kind of paranoid imagined competition with UG, they would perhaps require this as part of the deal.)

If there was ever any remaining doubt...

Clearly JAG has crossing over to the supply side, has intrinsic conflicts of interest, and can no longer be trusted to be a sort of "Consumer Reports" for we hobbyists.

And since MC/John B won't admit any of this...and in fact lies by denying it....

Well, he simply can't be trusted at all.

[Bill Furniture]

Julie's site was being sabotaged by her webmaster who had an agenda. That's why she had to move her site. Anybody who looked at her site regularly had noticed problems getting in at times. Maybe she asked around and these guys offered the easiest solution.

[One Eyed Trouser Trout]

Your diligence in this investigative reporting surely qualifies you for some sort of award.

I'm trying to remember the name of the TV cop's show that featured Peter Faulk...that detective in the wrinkled trench coat and half smoked cigar...and all I can think of is 'McCloud'. But, that was not the name of the show.

Anyway, you should be honored with a trophy of some sort.

[dhutchins]

Columbo

[hot4chicks]

Or maybe his award should be a free session at Julies.

[Rufus Moses]

Due to the recent date/time problem some of the posts above appear in the wrong order. I've tried to restore the ordering here:

--------

From Rufus:

Aww shucks guys...just do'in the right thing...

But if there were an award I'd accept the equivalent in Euro's...and spend them wisely on my next visit to Amsterdam...

;)

--------

From Bill F.

Julie's site was being sabotaged by her webmaster who had an agenda. That's why she had to move her site. Anybody who looked at her site regularly had noticed problems getting in at times. Maybe she asked around and these guys offered the easiest solution.

[Rufus Moses]

In response to Bill F.'s reply I'd just say...Julies motive doesn't matter. Because this isn't about Julie...never has been...it is about JAG.

What is clearer now than ever before is that JAG can no longer be trusted as a non-biased consumers friend...and that they have crossed over to the supply side.

If that's all there were it would merely be regretable.

But beyond this, JAG continues to deny *all* of the above...which means the lie to their own members.

This moves JAG from the regretable to the corrupt and untrustworthy.


(Although I said this isn't about Julie, and it isn't, it is worth noting....Julie may want to think about whether JAG is really the horse she wants to hitch her wagon to. And whether she wants JAG deciding who can and can't see her web site.

As a technical matter JAG blocks more than just a handful of guys. To keep out a handful they often have to block entire subnets...so thousands of potential customers can't see Julie's site).

[DannyNJ]

Originally posted by Rufus Moses
This moves JAG from the regretable to the corrupt and untrustworthy.

This hobby and the whole nature of it are corrupt and untrustworthy.. lol.

JAG is what JAG is, and UG is what UG is.
All the negative posts on earth ain't changing either one of them.

[Rufus Moses]

DannyNJ...the problem with your analysis is that there was a time when JAG *was* trustworthy. I should know.

Just as we post here to report on providers that are rip-offs so that others won't be taken in, so too should we report on related enterprises (agencies, boards, magazine ads) that are misleading.

The problem with JAG is that it is extra tricky...because it was once trustworthy and now is not. Many guys are in denial as to how corrupt JAG has become, because they were members way back when.

So JAG can ride on their former legitimacy for a while longer...but not much I hope...

[Thorn]

Originally posted by Bill Furniture
Julie's site was being sabotaged by her webmaster who had an agenda. That's why she had to move her site. Anybody who looked at her site regularly had noticed problems getting in at times. Maybe she asked around and these guys offered the easiest solution.

Bill, you are politely advised to reread what was written by Rufus.

If what Rufus states is true, and there is much to suggest it is, then John B./MC is now the person who supplies Julie with her website.

Now, if that is true, then how can it be denied there are ties between the two? Ties that have been alledged countless times here and on other sites servicing this community.

The argument is, and always has been, not that their is simply a connection. If that is the way John B/MC wants to play his cards, its his right. The argument has been that his failure to state that, while similtainiously holding JAG out to be the pillar of integrity in the whoring community [a whoring "Consumer Reports" as it were] was duplicitious at best and, with the addition of charging money for his site, outright fraud at worst.

Understand now?

[littleguy]

Well, he simply can't be trusted at all.

Well Rufus,

About all that's left now is for you to accuse JB/MC to be ALL the posters there for whatever benefit you think that may bring them/him/her/whatever.

HE simply can't be trusted Rufus ? Who can YOU trust around here unless you know them personally. And if you DO know them personally why bother conversing with them on ANY board.

YOU clearly have an agenda here. Like the spurned lover, if you can't have her, nobody can. What on earth could you possibly have to gain by completely destroying (as you appear hell bent on doing) JAG ?

There's NOBODY there that you care about. Mr P's gone, TJ99's gone, they're ALL gone. You don't give a shit about anyone that still posts there so WHY do you care ? Why don't you just leave them/him/her alone ?

The conversation there, sparse though it may be now, has been extremely civil in the last 6 months or so. There is some good info there. There are some good reviews there. There are ZERO flame wars there. There are few posters there that post here.

So again, why do you give a shit ?

[Slinky Bender]

Hate is not the opposite of love. Indifference is the opposite of love. Love and hate are actually very close together.

[Ozzy]

LG....

maybe if you saved jag from the scrap pile as rufus did (twice), you would understand why he's so pissed that they've decided to burn it down on their own.

the thing is.....anyone who's still left on jag from the old days is so blind as to what goes on there that there's nothing anyone can do to convince them of how corrupt it's run. it's a REVIEW site and it's in bed with the most over-reviewed agency on the boards (julies). they now share the same servers as rufus pointed out in this and another thread.

btw......i see candide was outed as miss jag by one of jags most prominent posters.....(an accusation that has been denied many times by both sources). . . . . . . i wonder if they'll ban him now?



littleguy.... you don't see an issue with candide coming to UG (or any other board) to bad mouth the board and some of it's posters as well as it's operators and yet she's a member of jags staff? you don't see an issue with the most reviewed provider or agency on the boards, being partners or in cahoots with the board op's. it's funny......people will disregard a review by a person they think is a shill and basically burn him at the stake because he posted a positive review of someone, but they have no problems with a "review website" who participates in worse practices.


there's comments that have been written about how April and slinky are "in bed together" and how UG plants fake reviews on her behalf......

well for one i've never seen slinky make a single comment about april or any of her girls as far as service or price. she only buys and ad and posts here. second all of her reviews are written by known posters who are not slinkybender. that's quite different than what's going on at jag who has it's board op's posing as other posters (well, at least one very prominent poster) in order to shill her agency. and you guys wonder why no one else gets the same service as john b does from (ie) taylor and some of the other top shelf girls at julies who are getting bad marks for their service. and yes...i know YMMV but, JB's mileage is somewhat like a honda civic when everyone else on jag drives and old 8 cyl gas guzzler


There’s an old saying about “leading a horse to water” that’s very appropriate at this time.

[eng65]

I completely agree with Thorn and Ozzy, I am a former Jag member, I always wonder why JohnB can sample Julie's girls first and he always get BBBJ.

[littleguy]

eng65,

Don't know why you felt the need to hide who you are (first post). Doesn't really matter, but assuming for the moment (and I'm not saying I believe this is true or not), if JB is as good and regular a customer as he purports to be, if YOU were Julie, wouldn't YOU give you best customer first shot at the new "merchandise". Seems only like good business to me.

Ozzy,

I understand that Rufus "saved" JAG and I can appreciate the fact that as a former MC he deplores what (is claimed) is going on there, assuming he is correct (and I have no reason to believe he is not). I'm sure most of the other notables once at JAG and now here would say, quit beating a dead horse. Let it go already. It seems Rufus will not be content until JAG is dead and he would seem to want to do anything he can to make that happen. At least he waits until he has very persuasive arguments/facts/coincidences (?) before he presents his case. I mean, it's not like he spends night and day continually trying to beat JAG into submission.

"JB's mileage is somewhat like a honda civic when everyone else on jag drives and old 8 cyl gas guzzler"

Poor analogy from what I can see. As far as "over-reviewed", well, I'm sure that is true, but it is certainly not just by him. Why JB gets better service than everybody else (although the only time I remember seeing that is in this recent "Taylor" case. I believe he claimed he got DFK and BBBJ and others said "No"). Well, frankly, that would be a point of contention (and thus not good for business) assuming the link between him and Julie's is concerned, wouldn't it ? He claims to get certain things subsequent visitors do not get. Now, wouldn't that call into question his reviews/observations if that happened with regularity ? Wouldn't that be bad for Julie's business if her #1 customer couldn't be trusted to give honest reviews ?

Once again, I don't really care who gets what from whom so long as I get the straight poop. Far as I'm concerned, unless a girl is totally independent, there is ALWAYS somebody else that makes something off our expenditures.

Candide was "outed" as "Miss JAG" ??? I must have missed that but I probaly would have assumed "Miss" JAG was a woman giving advice. Candide, whether I agree with her opinions or not, seems pretty bright. Are you inferring or stating that JAG knew Infobooth was Candide and thus allowed her participation on the Discussion Board ?

Admittedly I don't read nearly as much of UG as most (?) others here. Candide, as far as I can see, doesn't bad mouth nor post as much as many other members. If she takes issue with something somebody says she addresses it. Lord knows it is clear you and she are not friends.

I don't know if she's posted any "issues" with UG itself. Perhaps she has but you make it sound as if this is something she does ALL the time. I'm guessing if she did it as often as you infer, I would have seen some of it, no ?

And you say "she's a member of JAG staff" Are you saying she STILL is ? Or she was ? I just today took issue myself with UG deleting Nicole's (from Montreal) post. I assume she was looking for clients and posted a link to her site. I asked Allen or Slinky what rule she was breaking, or if the rule that I saw (#8) should possibly be modified since other ladies here on UG seem to be allowed to post a link to their site at will. Does that make ME a member of JAG's staff (I think you KNOW I'm not) ?

As far as JAG practices, while I certainly don't seem to see as many ladies as other Jagsters (or UG'ers) do, the ones I have seen (from both resources) have certainly all fallen within the YMMV parameters of the experience described, so until that concept fails, I have no problems with who reviews who.

"there's comments that have been written about how April and slinky are "in bed together" and how UG plants fake reviews on her behalf......"

Haven't seen any of those. And have no reason to believe it's true. Although, as stated above, April is one lady that posts a link to her site with some frequency and I don't see those posts/links deleted. Perhaps that is why the accusations are made ?

[RoosterC74]

This entire thread has really gotten a bit interesting in the past day or two. I mean just by the title of the thread-everybody knew it had great potential to stir up some controversy. That is especially true-when the place has been fairly flameless in the past week or two. Just a few things that I would like to respond to:

1-Of course-I will take Eng65's post for exactly what it is-useless. Once again-it appears that we have yet another post under a different handle/or name. This stuff is becoming so common-place around here-it is a true joke. However, by now everybody knows my opinion about people posting under 2, 3, 4, or at times even 5 different handles/names. Damn Guys and Ladies-if you have something to say-just say it under your handle/name. It certainly will be given a great deal more credit if you do it that way. How many members does this Board actually have? I think we have no idea-because so many of the names/handles are fictional-due to people posting under such a wide array of handles/names. Again, obviously-if the rules remain that you can post under a wide assortment of handles-then so be it!

2-Ozzy, Rufus, Little Guy-although, I do not always agree with everything you have stated (shit everyone that has read this Board knows how many times Ozzy and Little Guy have gone a few rounds with me)-but I have to agree you have the balls enough-to post things under your true handle/name. Kudos-for that guys!

3-Rufus, Ozzy, and Little Guy-you do tend to speak very positively about the place that JAG was several moons ago-unfortunately I missed that. It sounded like a very special place-with some great guys sharing some high quality information.

4-Little Guy-I gotta give it to you-you certainly have balls to post what you have posted most recently about this thread.

5-Ozzy you posted the following about this issue:

the most over-reviewed agency on the boards (julies).

Ozzy-once again you are entitled to your opinion-but this is only your opinion. Could her agency possibly be over-reviewed in your terms-because it is the most used in the city at this point in time? And do not get any ideas about me shilling for Julie and her girls. Shit I have only been to her place a total of 3 times-and only reviewed one of her girls (Elanya) once. And I promise you I paid full price for the 90 minute visit.

6-And as for all of the other statements about Slinky and April being in bed together, and on and on and on-who really cares? April advertises on the Board-and frankly who can see anything wrong with that. She is entitled to do so. And if she pays for advertisements-that is up to her and Slinky-certainly not us as Board Members. It appears that April is attempting to run-a good business-and develop a good reputation-what the hell is wrong with that?

7-Recently, I have witnessed no UG Bashing on JAG. Thus, it might be wise-to do the same thing here. Again, this is only my humble opinion.

8-The following was posted by Danny NJ-recently about this issue:

JAG is what JAG is, and UG is what UG is. All the negative
posts on earth ain't changing either one of them.

Danny-that was very well put. While JAG and UG are different in nature, and the way issues take place inside the walls of each-in my opinion they are each quite good in their own way. Again-I will state that at times you can enjoy the very best scotch around-yet on some summer days-you just need a good cold brewski!

In closing-Danny your comment above certainly makes a hell of a great deal of sense to me. I for one-just wish people could see it that way.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by littleguy
Poor analogy from what I can see. As far as "over-reviewed", well, I'm sure that is true, but it is certainly not just by him. Why JB gets better service than everybody else (although the only time I remember seeing that is in this recent "Taylor" case. I believe he claimed he got DFK and BBBJ and others said "No"). Well, frankly, that would be a point of contention (and thus not good for business) assuming the link between him and Julie's is concerned, wouldn't it ? He claims to get certain things subsequent visitors do not get. Now, wouldn't that call into question his reviews/observations if that happened with regularity ? Wouldn't that be bad for Julie's business if her #1 customer couldn't be trusted to give honest reviews ?


Seem to remember a topic of discussion on JAG called, "Monsters and Gods" or something like that. Don't remember who wrote it, but the poster made a good case, IMO, that a new girl could give a guy with a very well known screen name, a God, an incredible session, and then resting on her laurels,do phone in sessions with the rest of the lemmings, the monsters.

Someone such as MM/MC/JB should have, must have known such a thing was going on and yet he said nothing.

[RoosterC74]

Phantom,

Honestly, I guess that took place on JAG before I was around. Sorry-I did not have the opportunity to read it. Where you Phantom on JAG also?

However, the scenario that you painted in your above post-is a very good one-and I am sure that it does occur from time to time. I realize that it could have taken place on JAG. However, are you inferring that it could not take place within the walls of UG? An example being-that a never heard of provider here in UG-provides a top-notch service to one of the better respected UG Guys-and thus then the rest of the scenario you painted takes place. Could take place in here also-no?

[Phantom]

Originally posted by RoosterC74
Where you Phantom on JAG also?

No, I wasn't. Since you have access to JAG's member boards you should have no problem finding out the screen name I used there. Heck, MM/MC/JB stopped just short of outting me for asking a simple question. He posted some very personal info about myself on the non members board. I've never met MM/MC/JB face to face. I've only met one guy from this hobby and I can be pretty sure he ain't MM/MC/JB. The personal info that MM/MC/JB posted about myself could have only come from someone would had personally met me face to face, escorts.


Originally posted by RoosterC74
However, the scenario that you painted in your above post-is a very good one-and I am sure that it does occur from time to time. I realize that it could have taken place on JAG. However, are you inferring that it could not take place within the walls of UG? An example being-that a never heard of provider here in UG-provides a top-notch service to one of the better respected UG Guys-and thus then the rest of the scenario you painted takes place. Could take place in here also-no?

Admission to and maintainence of a membership to Utopia Guide is not based upon posting reviews, while it is at JAG. Whether those reviews are truthful and honest is the subject of another thread.

[RoosterC74]

Danny NJ recently posted the following about this issue:

Julie's has LONG been the most popular Agency in NYC from
what I can see, and I doubt that any one poster could be
responsible for that single handedly. Julie got where she is
from providing reliable, fairly priced service and taking good
care of her customers.


I would have to state that from my few visits to her establishment-that this was exactly true. And I do not think it was because I was a Gold Member of UG or a JAG Member. Shit-I did not even belong to UG or JAG when I first visited Julies. Possibly we should just come to grips with the fact that Julies runs a good establishment. You get good service-and the price is certainly right.


Additionally Danny posted:

Whether or not she has "shills" on JAG would only get her so far and eventually the truth would come out (if the place was no good). Obviously, that's not the case.

Again-this is quite true. I first visited Julies based on reviews that I read on ***. Later I visited Julies based on some reviews that I had discovered right here on UG. In fact-it was right here-many months ago-that somebody claimed that if I enjoyed Cecilia's oral talents at Nicole Rio's-then I would be even more impressed with Elanya's at Julies Place.


And finally Danny wrote:

JAG and UG are both useful resources.


Danny-once again, I could not agree with you more.

[RoosterC74]

Honestly-my Board time for the day is running out. I have other things to deal with this evening. Life certainly does exist outside of the hobby. That is what makes a hobby quite enjoyable, since it is only a small portion of your life. Sort of like playing golf, bowling, swimming, or shooting hoops-no? All and all, some of the information gathered today from the Boards was very interesting-and somewhat informative. Just a couple of things:

Phantom posted the following to a question that I raised about his former JAG Handle:

No, I wasn't. Since you have access to JAG's member boards
you should have no problem finding out the screen name I
used there.


If you would rather not share that handle with me-frankly, I am not going to waste my time looking for it. It really is not that important to me.

However, once again-different handles/names-on different Boards. Just my opinion-and no more. It seems to me-that guys like Danny, Bill Furniture, Hombre, I think even Slinky, and myself-have the same screen names/handles on all of the Boards. Makes it sort of right upfront and personal. Either you like what we say-or you don't. However, you know exactly who is stating what they are stating. Take the Kudos or take the Shit-either way-you know who we are.


The Phantom went on to post:

Admission to and maintainence of a membership to Utopia Guide is not based upon posting reviews, while it is at JAG. Whether those reviews are truthful and honest is the subject of another thread.


Maybe I missed something here-but I thought that this had to do with a well known UG or JAG Guy posting something very positive about a provider-and then the girl going on those laurels to provide poor service to guys in the future. What that has to do with admission fee's to a Board-leaves me clueless. But then again-you have been known to leave me clueless on a few things! If I missed the point that you were trying to make-I do apologize.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by RoosterC74
It really is not that important to me..........


However, once again-different handles/names-on different Boards....


So why'd you ask? When I started posting on UG I stopped posting on the JAG member board. Different board, different screen name. I'm not the only one who changed their screen name when they came to UG, there are others.

[Ozzy]

He claims to get certain things subsequent visitors do not get..... yep, like dating Julies sister.


I don't really care who gets what from whom so long as I get the straight poop.... you didn't get the "straight poop" with Taylor ......did you?

Candide was "outed" as "Miss JAG" ??? ..... that's was posted on jag by "hombre" (is he reliable enough for you?)

Haven't seen any of those. And have no reason to believe it's true. Although, as stated above, April is one lady that posts a link to her site with some frequency and I don't see those posts/links deleted. Perhaps that is why the accusations are made ?

LG...those comments about April are in her "april watch" thread, i believe they're posted by the author of that thread. I think it was something like “UG posts fake reviews for april (clpc)” as for her links.....there's a problem with the UG software that keeps putting her "signature" (a blue link) on the bottom of her posts (even after it was turned off). i think every time allen works on the board it resets or something (maybe sb or allen can explain this feature). secondly sb has posted this in the past, but UG advertisers will sometimes get cut some slack when it comes to spam posts or posting a link.

also, if you notice it's not even the correct link (to aprils elite) and instead links to clpc which is no longer run by april.



the most over-reviewed agency on the boards (julies).
Ozzy-once again you are entitled to your opinion-but this is only your opinion..... it's by far the most reviewed entity on the boards...(thus over reviewed in my opinion)


Could her agency possibly be over-reviewed in your terms-because it is the most used in the city at this point in time?..... I can assure you with 100% certainty that, that's not the case.
"episodes" for example does 5 times the traffic as julies on any given day or night, and anyone who's been to both will agree. i've been there with tank and no less than a dozen others waiting in line (well actually i didn't have to wait). so julies isn't close to being the most used agency and yet her reviews out number the nearest entity by at least 10-1....this is why i state julies is "over reviewed"


An example being-that a never heard of provider here in UG-provides a top-notch service to one of the better respected UG Guys-and thus then the rest of the scenario you painted takes place. Could take place in here also-no?..... very possibly, however.... if I or carl m or even the rooster were to receive special or discounted services from a provider in exchange for a positive mention or review...that only makes us a shill (why ozzy doesn't say who he is nor post reviews). However, if it is the board op who's receiving that service and misleading his readers thru a different name then it's deceitful on his part and it makes the board he operates a bit less than honest.


And as for all of the other statements about Slinky and April being in bed together, and on and on and on-who really cares?..... just a point that someone should mind their own yard and not be concerned about someone else's. it's also a point that jag wants april and UG to go bye- bye for the good of their business (Julies).


I doubt that any one poster could be responsible for that
single handedly..... how about a single board? a single board that is run by perhaps a single person who posts as several different posters. a single board that IS solely responsible for a certain agencies rise to the top of the internet world.


It's been said many times here that "all the good posters on JAG are long gone". Well that may be true in some people's eyes but not in all. Yes, I also miss Mr P. and many of the others who added a lot of info BUT there are still people posting whose opinions I value such as Rooster, Bill Furniture, Hombre Secreto, etc..... well only hombre was there before. here's a question? ever wonder why all these great jag members left? it wasn't when jag went pay-site because you know most were still there after that change over and some with lifetime memberships that were canceled due to them voicing their opinions or questions about the above.



Look i could care less about who's getting "taken in" over at jag. from the list of members that danny just posted you would think i would enjoy watching all of them get mis-lead or "taken in" (not that THEY have). it's just that when someone claims this shit is going on over here, i just like to set the record straight..... this is rufus's war not mine. i'm just helping him out by stating the facts.



note: the reason i changed my name was simply because i grew tired with the one i had (it's not like i tried to hide behind a new name). i attempted to change it on jag but i was forbidden from doing that by MM. his post telling me not to change my name is still there....just do a search for "Ozzy" on jag.

[justme]

If you search the JAG threads you'll see that I went ballistic every time it was reprted that 'someone' breached the common JAG trust. That is, we all trusted each other to be honest in out motives and (reasonably) secretive about the site. Personally, I'd never wage the crusade thar RM is waging, but it does piss me off that the biggest betrayers of that mutual trust were the people running the board to begin with.

But really, who cares? UG has almost all of the posters that made JAG so 'great'* and I haven't seen many original thoughts on the topic of commercial sex in close to a year. In all honesty, I wonder if many of us would still pull up these boards if we didn't have some affinity for posters whose thoughts we've been reading for several years.

* - you know, every time I read 'DFK' i chuckle remembering how facetiously that expression was first used.

(Oh, if JAG starts encapsulating member's board posts and publishing them to the public at large as has been suggested lately, then I will be very pissed)

[Slinky Bender]

Sorry to disrupt the "flow" of the thread with a tangent, but anyone who thinks that the amount of reviews or talk on "the boards" bears any relationship to the amount of business done by the various houses/agencies/etc. has very little concept of the business as a whole as it actually runs. Many of the busiest houses are rarely if ever even mentioned on the boards, and some fairly busy places are just plain unknown to the internet. For some bizarre reason, places which are in the neighborhood of $200 and hour are amazingly over-represented on the boards, with much less talk than action for places both above and below that amount.

[Ozzy]

skip it.

[Bagger Vance]

Many years ago, and many miles away in another part of the country.....Golf was only for the rich and lazy. But the common man wanted to play as well. One day, I found some land which an old farmer had let grow fallow. We talked about golf and what a great game it was. I took care of his house and property for a while, and one day he told me if I wanted to use some of the land for golf, he would give it to me. I started to build a course for the common man. Seeing me tending the fields, some other "common man" golfers aided me, and wouldn't you know it....we built one of the best damn courses around. There were no greens fees, and everyone who couldn't afford to join a country club was welcome. All you had to do was help maintain the course - you took your turn being the greenskeeper and your turn being the player - everyone was equal ( except the rich guys, who had their own clubs, and were not welcome ). After a while, I had the reputation of having the finest golf course around. The rich guys wanted to play, but we didn't let them in, because we had our rules ( player/keepers only ).

One day, I came to realise that my life had changed, and that I really couldn't do justice to keeping the management of the course up to what it should be. So, i soke with one of the members who had expressed an interest in keeping th ecourse up. We talked about what the "common values" were that those in the "club" shared. I trusted he would keep my vision of the club alive, and he promised that he would live up to the standards I had set, and that I would alsways have a home at my beloved club.

Well, at first things seemd to go very well. He promoted the club, and it grew with lots of new members. People from all over seemed to hear about our little club. But then, one day, he said "I'm spending a lot of money on grass seed, and we're going to have to start charging for memberships now". Now, I knew from my own experience what it cost to run the place, and that our members did most of the work, etc, and the numbers didn't seem to make sense to me. But I trusted him and fealt if things had changed, he would treat everyone fairly and was only doing what was necessary for the good of the course.

Soon, I heard members telling tales of how guys who never tended the course were playing, and they were complaining that guy from Calloway Golff were seen playing. they also complained that the new head greeenskeeper who I had handed the riegns over to seemed to have a new set of Calloway Clubs. I always knew he liked Calloway, and I told them he had just bought the clubs because he liked them, and that they were imagining things. but some of the guys saw him hanging out at local watering holes with the guys from Calloway after work, and one or two guys said that they actually saw him taking envelopes from them. these guys brought this up at one of the club meetings, and they were thrown out of the club. I didn't feel comfortable with this, but I still trusted him, so I let it slide.

Then, one day I found out that his treaurer at the club was actually on Calloway's payroll. This really disturbed me. I also found out that Calloway guys had been playing at the club regularly, and being given preferred tee times over regular members. I also started to notice that Calloway products were getting special mentions at all the club meetings, and that competitors were getting bad notices.

I finally decided that something needed to be said, so I stood up at one of the club meetings. Next thing I know, I'm out on the street and my "lifetime" membership has been revoked. The club which I built is now taken over, and the promises whch were made to me as a condition of turning the club over have been broker. Within a few months, all my friends who were still members are gone - either booted or quit. I see a constant stream of advertising now for the club, with the sales pitch that it's a club for the common man, free of undue influence from "steering committees" and commercial interests. I'm sure there are plenty of guys who see these ads believe what they read, and hand over their hard earned dollars, based at least in part on the Legend of Bagger Vance and the common man's club which he created. I feel bad for these guys, because they are being taken in.

Now, I hear Calloway is leasing the vacant lot next to the course for a large amount of money from my old buddy, and has put up a billbaord on it facing the 18th hole.

When I tell this story, people say "Bagger, why do you care ? You don't know no one who plays ther no more !". Well, I care for several reasons:

Firstly, I care because something was taken from me. The club I built, and which was promised to me would be run the way I started it, has been stolen buy someone who runs if for his own personal gain.

Secondly, I care because guys are being lied to and taken in. I don't care so much about the old time members who were around for the whole thing, who may or may not believe, or care, about what happened. But I do care about the new guys, who not only spend their membership dues unnecesarily, but also spend money on Calloway products which they aren't being told the truth about. Now, Calloways stuff is good....maybe great...but if they are buying it because of dishonest ( i.e. paid for ) reviews, they are being taken in nevertheless ( and if they complain about thier purchase, they are getting pressured to cut it out ).

Thirdly, I care because it pains me to see what I built sullied. Ask anyone who rides Harleys how they feel about the AMF days, or pick anything else which was once great and has been cheapened to make a quick buck.

But I also care because my name has been dragged thruogh the mud. After I was expelled, malicious lies were told about me in order to cover up why I was really shown the door. I don't see why I have to sit still for that, and I don't see why I have to sit still while my baby is prostituted out. In fact, since the promises which were made to me as a condition of turning the club over were broken.....how about I just take it back and run it the way it was always intended ?

[Ozzy]

i always liked Ping better than Calloway.

[Ozzy]

so MC stands for Mad Calloway.

[Thorn]

Rufus, in reality you are free to do exactly that if you wish.

Take it back. There is no legitimate claim on the name "John's Action Guide" or "JAG". If you wanted you could even call it, "The New JAG".

Do it exactly the way you like.

You could do that. To be honest, anyone of us could do it.

What would be able to be done? File a writ? Sue?

Not likely, given the nature of the material covered.

The thing is.... why would you WANT to?

Allen and Slinky might mack a nickle over the bottom line after a lot of sweat and dealing with nonsense over UG. If that.

JAG, the way you want to see it, is a lot of work and a negative cash flow. Small, if you keep it small. Bigger if you allow it to grow to the size of a UG or TER.

I am a JAG "life member". I know that means I could be booted out tomorrow, no matter how much I donated back when membership simply cost two reviews a month.

I know what JAG is, and I know what it isn't. The new JAG is certainly not the old JAG. Still, its a resource, and I never simply throw resources away for the hell of it. I get some good info out of JAG from time to time out of people like CharlieSheen75, even Phantom and Little Guy.

Yes, the new guys are clueless as to what JAG was, but they ought to know what it is now. Unless they are totally without a clue, that is. So, don't fret for them as much as you do. They are paying their dollar because they want to and they think they are getting their money's worth. Those that don't leave soon enough, cancelling their subscriptions.

When all is said and done, as I have said a number of times before this, we are speaking about whoreboards. We should all have many things we care a lot more about.

Rufus, I have read your posts for ages. We have exchanged ideas and I respect your intellect and your humanity. I will say, because of that respect, that if it reaches the point where a whoreboard [even one you ran for a period of time] becomes that important to you, its time to check yourself. There has to be a few priorities you've missed.

Bagger Rufus, take it back and do it the way you want, or let it go. This other stuff has got to be bad for the blood pressure. :)

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Thorn
I know what JAG is, and I know what it isn't. The new JAG is certainly not the old JAG. Still, its a resource, and I never simply throw resources away for the hell of it. I get some good info out of JAG from time to time out of people like CharlieSheen75, even Phantom and Little Guy.



Haven't posted on the JAG member board since very early 2000. If there is someone posting there as "Phantom" or the screen name I used there it is absolutly, not on your life, me!

[Rufus Moses]

I am on the road and can't even begin to respond to most of the above...

(Thorn...I didn't make the bagger vance post so am not sure what your recent post refers to in the "you could do that" part...actually I've only skimmed most of the above...)

PULL FOCUS

This is really simple folks...

We now have objective evidence anyone can confirm for themselves that MC/MM/JohnB is providing support services to Julies. This has *never* been about Julies. But JAG has steadfastly refused to admit to supply side ties of any kind. And many of us know they've had numerous ties...this is just the most recent and proveable one.

I am not saying JAG or other boards should or shouldn't have ties to providers. All I am saying is that if they do, MC/MM/JohnB shouldn't lie and say they don't.

I am also saying if MC/MM/JohnB lies about this, folks should be very suspect of the things MC/MM/JohnB says about those who try to bring out the truth of the matter.

MC/MM/JohnB has said some particularly nasty and UNTRUE things about *me personally*.

What does Rufus want? A retraction and an apology from MC/MM/JohnB.

What does Rufus expect? Nothing...from MC/MM/JohnB. But I hope that 3rd parties can now judge for themselves whose word they can trust.

[SkellyChamp]

tilting at windmills

[Slinky Bender]

Can Saints be impeached ?

[justlooking]

That's probably something K.S. can now opine on, if she can get to a computer terminal.

[Geezy Muldoon]

Originally posted by slinkybender
Can Saints be impeached ?

Not precisely. There is, however, a rather gruesome procedure set forth in the heretofore secret protocols of the Fifth Lateran Council at which I personally advised the Vatican. Involves tying off the anus of the spiritual body of the saint in question, a live skinning and recylcling of the nasty bits into plasticene marital aids.

Saints whose reputations are in question are loathe to stand still for this procedure and willingly pay exorbitant fees to the hordes of disreputable canon lawyers specializing in this type of defense work.

[Vincent Gambini]

Originally posted by slinkybender
Can Saints be impeached ?


I understand there is a petition on the internet to revoke Yassar Arafat’s 1996 Nobel peace Prize. That's a start.

[littleguy]

First of all, it's Callaway, not Calloway.

Secondly, Rufus, whether you're "Bagger" or not, and I have not reason to believe you are (since you said you're not), I think you should just take Thorn's advice. Do it again YOUR way, or let it go.

Bet you know this one.....

God grant me.....

the Serenity to accept things I cannot change.

The Courage to change the things I can.

and the Wisdom to know the difference.

AND this one......

Do what ya gotta do........


L' Chaim (<--- Did I spell that right ?)

[littleguy]

"For some bizarre reason, places which are in the neighborhood of $200 and hour are amazingly over-represented on the boards, with much less talk than action for places both above and below that amount."

Slink,

Not sure I'd call it bizarre. Actually, maybe it makes quite a bit of sense.

The lower priced places (a la Episodes) seem to have more trouble with LE and perhaps the people that frequent them intentionally lie low (to lower the possibility of LE finding their sources).

Much higher than that price point ($200-$300) is, I'm guessing, a place where the majority of the posters around here don't frequent, or at least frequent less frequently (Boy, I'm using the word "frequent" awfully frequently. OK, I'll stop)
Additionally, other than Ms Hunter, there are no females here that I know of that post representing a higher price point.

Just guessing. Have no statistics to back it up.

[littleguy]

"He claims to get certain things subsequent visitors do not get..... yep, like dating Julies sister.

He never claimed any of US could get her. Who cares what stories are made up. I mean really. Stuff like that's just fodder for the jokesters.


"I don't really care who gets what from whom so long as I get the straight poop.... you didn't get the "straight poop" with Taylor ......did you?

Once again, as I said earlier, if he's Julie's shill, what purpose does it serve for him to mis-lead ? And again, preponderance of the number of reviews. If JB says he got something and 5 other guys said they didn't, I'll assume I more than likely won't. OTOH, I've gotten service(s) from a lady that weren't posted about at all and I've never said anything about them and neither has anybody else. Maybe, just maybe, I got them for some unknown reason and others didn't ? Who knows ?


"Candide was "outed" as "Miss JAG" ??? ..... that's was posted on jag by "hombre" (is he reliable enough for you?)"

Answered already. I would assume that somebody named "Ms. JAG" was a woman.

"LG...those comments about April are in her "april watch" thread, i believe they're posted by the author of that thread. I think it was something like “UG posts fake reviews for april (clpc)” as for her links.....there's a problem with the UG software that keeps putting her "signature" (a blue link) on the bottom of her posts (even after it was turned off). i think every time allen works on the board it resets or something (maybe sb or allen can explain this feature). secondly sb has posted this in the past, but UG advertisers will sometimes get cut some slack when it comes to spam posts or posting a link. also, if you notice it's not even the correct link (to aprils elite) and instead links to clpc which is no longer run by april."

Fake reviews are claimed all the time everywhere. I know April's reviews are accurate. Who cares what others believe ? I believe the reviews posted by people I know are reliable. Others I take with a grain of salt.

I mean really, the way you "talk" you'd think there was a concerted effort to destroy April over there. You KNOW that's not the case. You'd think that the only thing that was talked about on JAG was April's and how bad her girls are and you KNOW that's not the case either.

That thread you're referring to is almost dead. Hardly anyone mention's April's anymore over there. The ONE guy who really bad-mouthed her for something that happened long ago (and was straightened out by me) has finished with that incident a while ago.

OK, so maybe April's link comes up by accident. No sweat. And no, I never clicked on it. I know where to find her. (grin)


"And as for all of the other statements about Slinky and April being in bed together, and on and on and on-who really cares?..... just a point that someone should mind their own yard and not be concerned about someone else's. it's also a point that jag wants april and UG to go bye- bye for the good of their business (Julies)"

First of all, if Slinky and April ARE in bed together, brother am I fucking jealous.....

"ALL" the other statements. Where are they ALL ? I don't even remember reading one.


"here's a question? ever wonder why all these great jag members left ? it wasn't when jag went pay-site because you know most were still there after that change over and some with lifetime memberships that were canceled due to them voicing their opinions or questions about the above."

EXCELLENT point. I'd like to hear from each and every one of them that are here the reason(s) they left. Or, for one person to list them and the others to say "Aye".

[RoosterC74]

The Evening is growing late-so I will try to make this shorter then usual. Heh-No Cheers from the Peanut Gallery. However, due to its importance it will still be fairly lengthy. Still not as lengthy as Bagger or Ozzy.

1-First of all I will say it again-the Bagger Thing is yet another example of someone saying something-good or bad-but not coming out and saying it under their own handle/or name. I have said this enough times-but I continue to think this is a bit ridiculous to say the least. Damn-all of these made up new names. If you got something to say-have the balls to say it under your handle/or true name!

2-When Thorn posted the following-I could not agree with it more.

I will say, because of that respect, that if it reaches the point
where a whoreboard [even one you ran for a period of time]
becomes that important to you, its time to check yourself.
There has to be a few priorities you've missed.

3-Ozzy, due to time-and exactly what Thorn stated in #2 above-all I will say about your response is that we are each entitled to our opinion.

However, Ozzy you did go on to post the following back to my statement about people posting under various handles/names:

note: the reason i changed my name was simply because i
grew tired with the one i had (it's not like i tried to hide behind
a new name). i attempted to change it on jag but i was
forbidden from doing that by MM. his post telling me not to
change my name is still there....just do a search for "Ozzy" on
jag.


Ozzy-I have just one question for you related to the above information that you posted, and I realize that only Slinky would know if your answer is truthful. And by the way-I realize that in no manner possible should Slinky be expected to let this very confidential information out. So it will probably just end right here. But-this is my question to you Ozzy- Are you trying to tell me, and the rest of the members of this Board that everything that you have ever posted on this Board (Utopia Guide) has been under the Handle/Name of Ozzy? That would mean that you have never, ever posted under other handles, alias', or names!

[Ozzy]

i only told you why i changed my name from VV to Ozzy. I never said i haven't posted under different names on jag, UG, ***, rsr or any other board. if you want to ask every single person on this board if they only have one screen name then i'll answer your question regarding this board...if you have an accusation to make than make it. i will say this...if i wanted to post a review or make a positive mention about some girl that i saw, i have every right (as does anyone else) to use a different name so as to protect my (or their) identity (real name or screen name).

however.... you can rest assured that not a single post that you have ever pointed out as a poster hiding behind a new name to slander someone (svengali, bagger, etc...) was me. NOT ONE! not sven, not bagger nor anyone else that you may be wrongly assuming is me (slinky can verify that). when i bash someone, i do it as "Ozzy", i've done it enough times, why would I hide now? it would defeat the purpose of being "the legend" (as you refer to me) if i were to post under unknown names to argue with you or to slander someone or to make any point. also i did say a few months ago that i was putting "Ozzy" on the shelf because it purpose was served. i said i would come back under a new name so you pose a loaded question. whether i've choosen that new name yet or what it is, is not the issue here because i can guarantee you that it will never be used to hide behind a bashing of anyone. i'll use it (when i use it) to simply to post useful (and unbiased) information to the board.



btw...bagger (who ever he or she is) didn't slander or bash anyone. he (or she) did however make a truly amazing and spot on analogy of the history of jag and rufus's connection to jag. i thought that (bagger) post was very well written and anyone who's interested in the history of jag and these "jag" threads should read that to better understand what exactly took place. and i'm telling you that's pretty much how it happened as i was one of those player/greens-keepers that bagger spoke of that actually played that course when it was private. anyone who disputes that analogy was either not there, lying or simply doesn't have a clue.

PS...rufus was the first person to ever meet "Ozzy", and did so long before there even was an Ozzy on the boards. rufus and i may not always see eye to eye on several topics but, what he says is a lot closer to the truth than anything i've seen posted by MM or any other sources.

[blackbag99]

Rufus,

You may have the technology questions down, but not necessarily the answers.

1. NO one these days gets a whole class C address for 1 or even 5 servers, jag nor julies need much more than a fast PC
2. Much of the 209 address space is owned by Web hosting providers. Do you actually think JAG is run in a basement?
3. The circumstances around julie's site changing and being NEAR an address of JAGs is circumstantial. I run a site with over 50 servers and I barely have enough addresses, I was not granted a class C, only partial. THe next guy down the hall or in the next rack has a range of addresses thats only 8 away from mine.
4. Its more than likely that Julies server is in proximity to JAGs, there are a number of hosting services that cater to the xxx world and escorting sites are easy enough to host and build.

So dont let circumstantial facts get in the way of a good time. If i had more money I'd go back to julies every week.

BB99

[Bill Furniture]

Originally posted by Ozzy
i only told you why i changed my name from VV to Ozzy. I never said i haven't posted under different names on jag, UG, ***, rsr or any other board. if you want to ask every single person on this board if they only have one screen name then i'll answer your question regarding this board...if you have an accusation to make than make it. i will say this...if i wanted to post a review or make a positive mention about some girl that i saw, i have every right (as does anyone else) to use a different name so as to protect my (or their) identity (real name or screen name).


I only post under this handle, I wouldn't wanna lose out on a few hundred posts added to my total.

I think it's fine for you to post reviews under a different name, you're not seeing the girls to be IDed by them.

[Slinky Bender]

LG,

There aren't that many truly "lower priced places" around anymore, so it's not surprising that there aren't that many posts about them, but how would one explain the lack of posts about $150 outcalls ( which there actualy are around, and are well used ) ?

Also, as I pointed out to someone else recently, to say that there aren't more people posting here about $400 to $500 places is because "that price ..(is a ) point a place where the majority of the posters around here don't frequent" is somewhat circular reasoning. It's also incorrect to some extent - I happen to know for a fact that there are lots of guys who visit here who do visit these places on a regular basis. It just doesn't get posted about here ( or other public boards that I know of ).

However, I think you misssed my real point ( ignored ? ), which is this: it's obvious that there is plenty of buisiness done at well over the $200/hr price point through the internet. This is obvious simply by perusing the internet sites ( not only Eros, Exotics, Citivibe, etc, but also the individual agency sites, which appear to be the main portal for the upper end agencies ). What I mean is odd is that the guys who look for and finds girls at these price ranges on teh internet don't seem to post on the boards. It [i]can't be because they can't find the boards, the boards are just too "present" for that.

My further point was that our view is skewed from the boards as to what percentage of the real business we are looking at. We seem to think we have a braod view of what is going on. In fact, we're seeing the tip, not the iceberg. As one expample, do the following excercise:

Add up how many "deals" a week you think get done at Julie's and April's combined. Compare that to the total you think get done at Logan's, Gina's, Peaches & Cream, Belladonna, Jane's, NYElites, American Beauties, Charles Angels, Party 7K, Amanda's, Eastside Luxury, Miami Companions, Bodyheat, Tower, Blue Velvet, and Role Play me.

Now, add up how many posts about each of those two groups you see on all the boards.

Seem strange to you ? It certainly does to me ( and not that I'm infering anything other than "curious" when I say that it seems strange ).

[Socketome]

BB99,

How about if you add to the mix:

A) JAG has said they do their own hosting, and

B) A simple whois search shows :

SuperNet, Inc. (NETBLK-SUPERLINK-BLK-1)
39 Milltown Rd.
East Brunswick, NJ 08816
US

for both.

[Allen]

blackbag99,

Let's be clear here about the tech part...And before anyone says it, I couldn't care less if JAG hosted Julie's..

"1. NO one these days gets a whole class C address for 1 or even 5 servers, jag nor julies need much more than a fast PC"

This is just wrong. Yes, hosting companies have become more stringent about giving out tons of ip's for no good reason, but any good host will give it's top clients whatever they need. I can call any of my hosts for my other company tommorow and add 2-3 class C's with no questions asked. And, I happen to have 6 class C's spread over 9 boxes, so it's not like I'm just guessing that it can be done.

As for the rest , what can I say except I'd tell my hosts to fuck off if they treated me that way.

So, is JAG hosting Julies? The answer is obvious, but you can all draw your own conclusions.

BTW, I'd probably go to Julies every week as well if I was nearby :D

[Ozzy]

here you go rooster, my first UG screen name......"VV" (http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=17#post17)


and a little further down......"Ozzy's" (http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=30#post30) first post.


i guess this makes me a sham.....huh?


ps.....

i know you're gonna ask so..... you will note that VV made a total of 19 posts, of which you'll only find about a half dozen spread out over two threads.......


knock yourself out with the conspiracies over those 13 missing posts.

[Hotpuppy]

While anyone is at it, can you clear up the Kennedy thing for me.
take care
HP

[Bill Furniture]

Originally posted by Ozzy



knock yourself out with the conspiracies over those 13 missing posts.

Watergate?

[SkellyChamp]

Now Slink I hope you weren't thinking of "de-sainting" me. Of course, JC's solution wouldn't work because (1) I'm Jewish and (2) I have no soul. (No one should link those two as any sort of belief or generalization - I'm only talking about myself).

I don't disagree with anything RM's says. I let my JAG premier membership lapse mid 2001 because of all the shit going on and because I didn't feel I was going to be getting any "bang" for my buck. (Which in large part is due to my coming up to my almost one year sabbatical from hobbying - which may end soon BTW). And yes Rooster I posted under a different name and changed to my current simply because I liked it better.

I just think for the most part that RM is preaching to the converted (except for LG) and that all it is going to do is give him a headache like banging his head against the wall. There is a nice Jewish expression for this for those who are interested. THo I do understand his frustration at seeing something he loved turn into something he didn't envision.

I actually liked Bagger's post and thought it was right on the mark and it doesn't really matter who Bagger is because you can easily tell from all the other posts who shares that view and who it may be - but it doesn't really matter. As Ozzy pointed out it was not a case of someone posting under another name to slam someone and avoiding having it attributed to them.

I think Thorn was right on the money


And Ozzy, while you're clearing up the Kennedy thing, you might as well get the definitive answer on Hoffa, too. No need to bother with Judge Crater because we all know where he is now.

[Ozzy]

kennedy was killed a lone gunman (oswald) and hoffa is under gate "C" at the meadowlands. hope that clears things up.

[Geezy Muldoon]

SK:

Yes, indeed. This is the car I stepped into back in 1930. I had to wait many years for the invention of the internet before I could converse and feel, at times, almost human again.

As far as Jews not having souls and qualifying for sainthood, it bears repeating that many of the saints during the first centuries of the Church were Jewish.

You may also have noticed that many Jewish mothers claim a type of sainthood and have an inspired ability to arouse feelings of deep guilt and worthlessness in their children, especially their sons.

Best regards,


Judge Crater


P.S. I'm running a special this week on de-sainting troublesome Jewish mothers.

[SkellyChamp]

JC

As I noted in, and the reason for, my paranthetical - I was only linking the two to me in particular as related to Slink's comment and was not making any larger comment.

That being said - all Jewish mothers are saints - I know this because they all tell me so. And all Jewish mothers will tell you that their guilt ridden and worthless sons are not really their fault though they must have failed somewhere but that they just don't know where since they gave all the nuturing and support they could have and that any son could have wanted or needed. Emasculated husbands is of course a different story.

P.S. - We've never met and even if we had I feel confident in saying that you could never de-saint me (sainted) mama - she would eat you alive and pick her teeth with your bones.

Oz - I always thought Hoffa was under the goalpost. Thanks for clearing it up.

[candie]

poor jag. Such losers. I found my thread filled with lies, but when I saw who posted I shrugged....it off... as they are Nobodies ... that crew are a bunch of assholes who dont know much. no biggie :)

[Ozzy]

SC....

the south endzone and gate C area are the same general vicinity. they wanted to make sure he was never found and thus he was chopped up and thrown in the mixer, so he's probably spread out over a large area.

[SkellyChamp]

Probably explains why the footing sucks.

[littleguy]

Hey Slink,

I don't pretend to have all the answers to each of these. As to why the $400 and over girls aren't reviewed I've seen many posts in many places about there being all sorts of reasons these girls aren't reviewed. Some guys may not want to admit they pay that much more than so many of the others for the same pussy, some may not want to admit to being ripped off by girls in that range (and look the real fool). There have been plenty of other reasons proffered as well. I don't know which are right and which are wrong.

As far as all the reviews skewed towards April's and Julie's I can't explain that either. A fair number of those places you mention I believe are in the same general price range. For the life of me I don't know why we almost never see reviews of these places.

Tip of the iceberg ? Of course I agree.

But I still think the $200-$300 price point is where most of the posters spend the time and money. Below that aren't reviewed primarily because of worrying about the place being known in the wrong circles, above that, for who knows how many reasons.

Circular reasoning ? Perhaps. Maybe chicken and egg stuff ? Do most guys review $200-$300 places because that's where they go ? Or do they gho there because most of the reviews are of $200-$300 places ?

Whatever.

[Bill Furniture]

Originally posted by littleguy


As far as all the reviews skewed towards April's and Julie's I can't explain that either. A fair number of those places you mention I believe are in the same general price range. For the life of me I don't know why we almost never see reviews of these places.



There are quite a few reviews of NJ agencies and indies. I'll be posting about another NY agency soon.

[Slinky Bender]

"Some guys may not want to admit they pay that much more than so many of the others for the same pussy, some may not want to admit to being ripped off by girls in that range (and look the real fool). "

Part of my point was that the guys who do see these agencies/girls don't post about it because it is so ill received on the boards. If someone posts a good review, guy only say "well, for $600 you'd better get all that - you still got ripped off". If someone asks for a recommendation in that price range, they only get "Why do you want that ? They're all a ripoff. See a $200 girl instead". And god forbid anyone would admit to anything less than a stellar session at that price point - they'd be ridiculed until the next decade. But the result is really a loss to all of us, whther we ever want to go that route or not. We just get cut off from any meaningful discussion on the topic altogether. I really think it's a shame, if only becaue I think that knowledge of other's experiences can help us see things about our own.

However, I must say that I think at least part of it is that there are at least some guys who don't want to hear anything about it. I think that they don't want to see, hear, smell or feel anything about girls who they can't afford, because it would make it harder for them to fool themselves into thinking that they are getting "the best there is". My most telling evidence of this is seeing descriptions of large numbers of providers in the $200 category decribed as "10's", "the most beautiful woman I've ever seen in my life", etc. NB: I'm not saying that at $600 you necessarily get those either, just that it's evidence that there is at least some self delusion going on. I'm also not "putting down" $200 women ( although, considering the amount of 'ptting down of anyyone conisderably over that price, I don't know why I should be worrying about it ). However, this concept that there just can't be anything better about anyone who charges more - that's right can't be - is just plain moronic.

Now, this doesn't mean I'm telling anyone that they should see a $600 woman, ever. I'm not telling them that they are a great bargain, and if they don't so one, they are an idiot. It's just that the continual littany from those who don't show the same respect the other way cuts off an awful lot of what could be meaningful discussion. Hell, I could very well make the same arguments against guys who see $250 women - that "pussy is pussy", and "you can get some" for $40, so why pay all that much ( i.e. $250 ). Look, there's as much repeat business at $1,000/hr agenices as $150/hr agencies. Is it just that everyone who uses $1,000/hr agencies is a total moron ? I find it hard to swallow an argument that the group of guys making 7 figures in NYC is largely populated with total idiots.

So why is it that it's just impossible to have a conversation about anything higher priced, because if someone ever tries to start one, a bunch of guys who have never even "used the product" jump in to decry the product in toto ?

( don't look, you know what's coming )

It's like driving, were anyone who drives slower than you is a "moron", and anyone who drives faster than you is a "maniac". Here, anyone who spends less than you ( that generic "you" ) is a "cheapskate" and anyone who spends more than you do is an "idiot".

[Slinky Bender]

And of course one problem is that the guys who agree with that last post are the one's who don't post, so they they won't agree where anyone would see it ( and if they did, they'd get slammed for being first time posters, and accused of posting under "alias handles" ).

[Geezy Muldoon]

SK:

Was just doing a routine. Though I doubt your mother could ever have physically kicked my ass after I reached the age of 12, I don't doubt that she is quite a handful and could tie me up in deeply compelling psychologically inescapable knots.

As a life long fan of Jewish girls and women, I readily admit that their guilt induction skills are superior to most, if not all, other types of women. Something about them when they are in that mode that is quite riveting, especially when they threaten to commit suicide.

Almost as if they are telling you that the land of milk and honey can be restored and that you can return to their warm embrace if you would only do exactly what they say. Very appealing for the emotional voluptuousness of the reward that is promised, especially to someone who was raised in a more emotionally repressed and reserved setting.

By comparison, girls and women from the British Isles are fonder of inhaled tears, lip quivering and wistful long silences. Compliance with their wishes merely puts an end to that and restores a man's sense of being righteously dutiful. Other than having them laugh at your jokes again, there is no other reward.

Curious as to the guilt induction styles of black women, hispanic women, asian women, etc. No real experience with that. Perhaps that is worth another thread: Ethnic Variations in Emotional Manipulative Practices of Women.


SB:

The points you raise are good ones. I posed a question not too long ago about a $600-$1,000 agency and got zip by way of response. Spending more now on sessions with mixed results even though I still nearly always walk out of such sessions having gotten something to take away.

Judge Crater (a/k/a the "Idiot")

[mydesign]

Originally posted by Ozzy
kennedy was killed a lone gunman (oswald) and hoffa is under gate "C" at the meadowlands. hope that clears things up.

Kennedy was killed by a group working for the French Mafia, Hoffa is a permanent addition to the meadowlands, and Aliens live among us.

[Aristotle]

ozzy --

There's a much better chance that Hoffa was in your car with you-know-who at The White Castle.

(Of course, he would have been part of the bumper.)

[Aristotle]

(Actually, one of the few people still alive who absolutely knows what happened to Hoffa that day is a guy named "Chuckie" who lives and works in Florida.)

(He's sick, though.)

(Cancer.)

[Aristotle]

(No, not *that* "Chuckie.")

[Geezy Muldoon]

(I attended the New York Military Academy in Cornhole-on-Hudson for several summers as a child and obtained excellent marksman ratings using bolt action rifles. Based on that experience, I seriously doubt that Oswald could have made the hit on Kennedy even if he was where the Warren Report placed him. Makes much more sense to me that mercenary foreigners pulled it off from several locations in Dealy Plaza.)


Judge Crater (who actually shook JFK's hand once at the age of 5 from atop his father's shoulders during the 1960 Presidential election campaign)

[Ozzy]

don't know about hoffa but, the french aren't good enough to have pulled that off. it was oswald but he did it with more than one shot. i don't know why they only claim one or two shots when he could just have easily have gotten off a third shot.

pussy however is a strong motive....perhaps RFK offed his brother to limit the competition for MM.

then again berle had them both beat in the penis dept and he was shagging MM as well. so was einstein.......she was such a Ho.

[Bill Furniture]

Originally posted by Ozzy


pussy however is a strong motive....perhaps RFK offed his brother to limit the competition for MM.

then again berle had them both beat in the penis dept and he was shagging MM as well. so was einstein.......she was such a Ho.

My Dad used to say that a rooster says, "Cock-a-doodle-do" and MM would say, "Any cock'll do."

[Ozzy]

my dad used to say that if MM could have sucked a better dick that she might still be alive.

[SkellyChamp]

JC

Wasn't talking about her kicking your ass in the physical sense. Though under her rules she could hit anywhere and we couldn't hit her anywhere between the top of head and the bottom of her feet.

I, too, would be interested in Ethnic Variations in Emotional Manipulative Practices of Women. Especially if you could get CLE credits.

Re: Kennedy - I remember driving around the neighborhood in one of those 1960 Chevrolet station wagons with a speaker on top while my mother was saying "Vote for Kennedy"

Oz - Don't think the French killed Kennedy but disagree that they couldn't have pulled it off. Remember we are talking the French of 63 - only 18 years removed from WWII. A lot of French resistance fighters were still in their prime. Not talking about the ungrateful Frogs of today.

SB Re: It's like driving, were anyone who drives slower than you is a "moron", and anyone who drives faster than you is a "maniac". Here, anyone who spends less than you ( that generic "you" ) is a "cheapskate" and anyone who spends more than you do is an "idiot".


No problem with the second part - spend more and you are a moron. As to the first - if they spent less than they are only a cheapskate if they keep the info to themselves so others who are interested can't partake of the "goods."

Also don't think it likely that the most beautiful woman I've ever seen was, or would be, a provider. Don't think I have or ever would use that type of description. Not that it couldn't happen and not that I don't think it could be a $200 provider (after all what I like is probably not what you like). Nor do I think that when others say it they really mean it like that. Sort of like piss me off and "I'm going to kill you." At least I have never taken it as a firm declaration of it.

[Geezy Muldoon]

SK:

After I do the necessary research, I'll offer the seminar on Ethnic Variations in Emotional Manipulative Practices of Women. Might be able to fit it into something ostensibly concerning jury selection and trial advocacy for CLE credit.

As far the French go, there was a much more recent crop of younger Vietnam and Algerian veterans available in 1963. Some were capable of, and committed quite horrible atrocities in Algeria.


Moronically,


Judge Crater

[Ozzy]

French resistance fighters? i always loved that term. they didn't resist the nazi's too much though. the only thing the french can do is make wine...... and we do that better in california now.


don't get me started on the lousy french. i remember when i was about twelve and went on vacation with my parents and we made a one day stop over in france. i had this childhood fascination with paris ever since the "aristocats" cartoon and when we got there, we were treated like shit because we were americans. so when we made it to downtown paris i took a leak on the base of the eiffel tower just so i could say i pissed on paris.......... and i'm still saying it more than 25 years later.

[mydesign]

Originally posted by Ozzy
don't know about hoffa but, the french aren't good enough to have pulled that off. it was oswald but he did it with more than one shot. i don't know why they only claim one or two shots when he could just have easily have gotten off a third shot.

pussy however is a strong motive....perhaps RFK offed his brother to limit the competition for MM.

then again berle had them both beat in the penis dept and he was shagging MM as well. so was einstein.......she was such a Ho.

Ozzy, MM died in 1962. Kennedy assassinated in 1963.

[Ozzy]

like i said, pussy is a strong motive.............even dead pussy.

maybe RFK got tired of smelling JFK's fingers.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Ozzy
so when we made it to downtown paris i took a leak on the base of the eiffel tower just so i could say i pissed on paris.......... and i'm still saying it more than 25 years later.

How like ozzy to piss on the biggest prick in the place.

[mydesign]

Originally posted by Ozzy
like i said, pussy is a strong motive.............even dead pussy.

maybe RFK got tired of smelling JFK's fingers.

ROTFLMAO

[Escort_King]

Though I agree the French are assholes... the treatment Ozzy's family got may have come from their own attitude towards the French ... hey he peed on the Eiffel Tower.... now what would we think of someone who would be willing to pee on the Lincoln Monument or the Statute of Liberty?

[Ozzy]

it was actually the treatment little Ozzy received at the airport and later at the hotel that brought on the need to relieve himself. and a ten or eleven year old Ozzy didn't know to treat the french or anyone bad.

was it churchill or chamberlain? who was never given proper credit for coining the great phrase....."Screw the French"

[Ozzy]

now what would we think of someone who would be willing to pee on the Lincoln Monument or the Statute of Liberty?



didn't you know Ozzy pissed on the Alamo (http://tiger.towson.edu/users/lcioto1/ozzy.html)?

[justme]

If it wasn't formerly a mission, I'm sure I'd have done the same a long time ago.

[Ozzy]

not only that....


but Ozzy gets invited to the White House (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/tv_and_radio/newsid_1911000/1911033.stm), and by a President who was once the Governor of Texas (home of the Alamo)......... Dubya can't be all that bad.

[Ozzy]

tried finding a good account of the Alamo story but couldn't.


during his US tour of '83 (Diary Of A Madman) with Motley Crue, his wife Sharon locked his clothes away in a San Antonio hotel to prevent him going out and drinking. Ozzy solved the problem by putting on one of her evening dresses, went out, downed a bottle of Courvoisier and, needing to take a leak, made use of a convenient old wall nearby.

[RoosterC74]

Guys/Ladies,

Sorry, I have been away from the net for about 48 hours-and this thing seems to have taken a different spin. However, I do have to just answer or respond to a couple of Ozzy statements in his post back to me a few evenings ago.

Ozzy posted the following:

if you want to ask every single person on this board if they
only have one screen name then i'll answer your question
regarding this board...if you have an accusation to make than
make it. i will say this...if i wanted to post a review or make a
positive mention about some girl that i saw, i have every right
(as does anyone else) to use a different name so as to protect
my (or their) identity (real name or screen name).

Ozzy-just a couple of things about this:
1-I never asked everybody on this Board if they had more then one screen name. I just asked you if you posted under more then one name-and obviously you have answered that question with an Affirmative!

2-I have been making the accusations or statements all along. I do not believe people should post under more then one name or handle. People are who they are-and should not take on dual identities or dual personalities. This again, is only my opinion.

3-I agree you have the right according to the rules established on this Board to post under different names. I do not see why you need to protect your identity. However, if that is you wish-then so be. Shit-President Bush, Joe DiMaggio, Ted Williams, Joe Namath, and for that point Al Capone did not feel the need to disguise their true identity. Unless, you are more important then they are or were.


Ozzy went on to post the following:

it would defeat the purpose of being "the legend" (as you
refer to me)


Ozzy-I assure you that I have continually referred to you as not "the legend"-but as "the legend in his own mind". Those two titles have far different meanings. Please do not humor me by trying to have me heap false praise upon your ego.


Ozzy-then posted the following:

i'll use it (when i use it) to simply to post useful (and unbiased) information to the board.


Ozzy-again you are entitled to your opinion, and I will stick by mine.


Ozzy then posted:

bagger (who ever he or she is) didn't slander or bash anyone.
he (or she) did however make a truly amazing and spot on
analogy of the history.


Ozzy-did I say that he slandered someone?


Ozzy-concluded his post with the following:

PS...rufus was the first person to ever meet "Ozzy", and did
so long before there even was an Ozzy on the boards. rufus
and i may not always see eye to eye on several topics but,
what he says is a lot closer to the truth than anything i've
seen posted by MM or any other sources.


Ozzy I have two responses to this:
1-First of all, I could care the least about whoever met Ozzy first. It would be like me raving about which of the Board Members met the Rooster first. Who the hell really cares. We are only small potatoes in the larger picture of life. The last time I checked, unless I am way off-you nor I am Michael Jordan, Bobby Bonds, or Al Pacino.

2-The statement you closed with MM and Rufus-is certainly your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

[Ozzy]

rooster...

first off..... please find someone besides me to occupy your time with.

second..... i gave you an answer to your question, i showed you my original screen name that i haven't used since november 2000 (pre "Ozzy"), and you took that remark to say that i use multiple names and you insinuate that i use them for less than honorable reasons. yet you decided not to address my guarantee to you that i have never used any other name to bash you or anyone else on this board. i said IF and when i choose to use an alternate name, then it's would only be for the purpose of posting reviews or helpful info to the board without having to risk exposing my true identity.

if you don't see the reason why some of us would prefer our privacy or separating our board personality from that of our real identity which we must sometimes expose to a provider (thru ID checks) than you are truly misguided and your opinion is very flawed. this is an illegal activity we all partake in and thus none of us use our real names on these boards......NOT EVEN YOU. if some less than honest (or mentally deficient) provider connects Ozzy to a real identity and decides to (or accidentally) divulges that identity to someone like say.....guy catelli who would simply love to post it to the boards.....well you see my reasons now. of course this can't happen because i don't tell providers that i'm Ozzy* and if i write a review i don't post it under "Ozzy. i also don't seek special treatment or discounts by throwing "Ozzy" around or i'd be spending all my days over at julies excepting freebies and shilling her place on the various boards during the times i'm not there.



*.....if you (or anyone else) don't understand the difference why i have no problem introducing myself as Ozzy at various events (nje or ug-g2g's) as opposed to providers, then i'll explain...... i'm not required to show my drivers lic when i attend these events. no one at those events even knows my first name, unlike providers who from time to time require you showing proper ID upon arrival.

As I stated above…please find someone else on the board to occupy your time with and make accusations against, you will find nothing here no matter how deep you dig into Ozzy’s or VV’s past, simply because there is nothing (other than a few rants and tantrums). You don’t always have to agree with my opinions but, you’re not going to find any wrong doings on my end. Anyone who actually reads what I write should know that about me….. besides, with the amount of people I’ve pissed off in the past on this board and others…you would think that someone would have dug something up on me by now.

[RoosterC74]

Ozzy just posted the following:

rooster...
first off..... please find someone besides me to occupy your
time with.


Ozzy-I will try to do so in the future. However, since you are "The King of Posts" and "Lengend In Your Own Mind"-I just assumed you had far more time then I did. In fact, since I post on the Board about 2 to 4 times per week-and you seem to thrive on the Board far more then I do-this seems to confuse me a bit.


Ozzy next posted:

..... i gave you an answer to your question, i showed you my
original screen name that i haven't used since november 2000
(pre "Ozzy"), and you took that remark to say that i use
multiple names and you insinuate that i use them for less than
honorable reasons.


Ozzy-I do not think that I ever insinuated that you used the alternate screen names for less than honorable reasons. Are you feeling guilty for some reason? Please do not put words in my mouth.


Ozzy then posted:

this is an illegal activity we all partake in and thus none of us use our real names on these boards......NOT EVEN YOU.


Ozzy-that you are correct on. I would assume that your real name is not Ozzy. No problem on my end with you using the name Ozzy-I just have a gripe with using other screen names on here. If you got something to say or report to the guys and ladies-why not say it as Ozzy? Again-just my opinion on the matter. It certainly carries no more weight then yours does. I understand that.


Then Ozzy posted this:

i also don't seek special treatment or discounts by
throwing "Ozzy" around or i'd be spending all my days over at
julies excepting freebies and shilling her place on the various
boards during the times i'm not there.


Come on Ozzy-do you really think that you are that important? Shit-you really are "A Legend In Your Own Mind". However, I did notice how you were quite clever to get your Anti-Julies Poke in here. Oh-and got the shill thing in also!


Ozzy-in all honesty after reading your last paragraph about yourself-you need to have a reality check. You are correct-many of the innocent souls of this Board-just tend to ignore your countless rambling-and boasting about how "God All Perfect"you are.

Additionally, I only entered a response into this thread because I for one thought that Little Guy and Danny NJ had made some valid points toward the beginning of this thread. Shit-me hooking up on Little Guy's side, I think that had to be a first. However, I thought on this particular issue-that he had made some very valid points. Thus, my original points were intended more to try and point out that two sides existed to this story. I did not intend originally for this to become another flame edition of Rooster vs. Ozzy. In fact, if you read my original post about this thread-it did have several positive comments about the manner in which you and Rufus said what you had to say under your true Handles/Screen Names. Kudos for doing that. Then, it appeared to go in a somewhat different direction. For that, I think we both should shoulder just a bit of the blame. However, I know you well enough on this Board by now-and Ozzy never, ever, can openly agree that he made a mistake.

But you are correct about one thing-I do have better ways to occupy my time then to spend it debating with "The Legend In His Own Mind". Thus-this is the end of my input on this thread. Ramble as you see the need to do so-but I will not respond to anything else regarding this thread. Well-that is unless, I wish to do it under a new and different screen name/handle. Only joking-see you know that I would not do that.

[DannyNJ]

I saw "Panic Room" yesterday and, in all honesty, this thread is much more entertaining.

[Escort_King]

Originally posted by DannyNJ
I saw "Panic Room" yesterday and, in all honesty, this thread is much more entertaining.

Hey it did suck... need rewrites in three places to make it work... but hey overall why bother...

Not as bad as Showtime... worst movie of the year so far...

Followed closely by National Lampoon's Van Wilder.... too few jokes and even gets maudalin...

[Ozzy]

rooster.....

you need to seek psychiatric help.

[Ozzy]

btw....rooster,


you mentioned my name 41 times in this thread.


so i must be very important to someone.


tell your shrink you suffer from OCD (Ozzy Compulsive Disorder)

[Thorn]

Originally posted by slinkybender
And of course one problem is that the guys who agree with that last post are the one's who don't post, so they they won't agree where anyone would see it ( and if they did, they'd get slammed for being first time posters, and accused of posting under "alias handles" ).

I'll agree with you Slinky. Right out here in the open, and I have more then a few posts. :)

What you said makes a lot of sense. And this coming from someone who frequently goes on at length about seeing "quality women" at $300 and under.

We both have valid points, I believe.

Mine settle around the set that defines the availabilities of "Inna's" at $250 before they start making $600+.

I argue that they are out there, just a bit harder to find.

The set that defines your agruement is just as legitimate. There is value at the $600 range when you receive treatment and service far in excess of what one can usually expect at $300.

The problem is, the water regarding such bits of business are so muddy. Its not like real estate, where you might find your occassional bargain, but for the most part value/$ spent is well defined. A buck is a buck is a buck.

In this realm a buck can be anything from $.10 to $3.00. If I am making my point?

So, while I can condone my taking more time to do the research, put the time and the occassional very dissatisfactory experience in to find the diamonds among the zircons; I can't not condone the actions of those who try to assure themselves a good experience with known providers giving a known quantity of service at the $600 level.

Ok, I am not sure I made my point, but my head hurts and I'm not prepared to do better then that right now. :)

The bottomline is, this board would be of better service to the community at large if those who saw the providers in this range felt free to provide info on those providers.

Perhaps a section, like the NY/NJ/CT Spa section, etc, devoted to the $600+ experience? I mean, there is a section called "Cheap Thrills". Why not its counterpart ["Expensive Tastes", perhaps]?

[justme]

I post on the Board about 2 to 4 times per week

Profile For RoosterC74
Search for all posts by this user.
Date Registered: 03-16-2001
Status: Gold
Total Posts: 871 (2.23 posts per day)

You got more to say than me

Profile For justme
Search for all posts by this user.
Date Registered: 12-02-2000
Status: Vinyl
Total Posts: 962 (1.94 posts per day)

Of course....

Profile For Ozzy
Date Registered: 12-06-2000
Status: Legend In His Own Mind
Total Posts: 2627 (5.35 posts per day)

[Kimmie]

Gentlemen, you need to do more fuckin and less talkin..

[Ozzy]

at one time it was (10. posts per day) for Ozzy. it's getting hard to keep it up.........

[RoosterC74]

Ozzy,

As usual when you do not get your way-you write something highly inflamable about someone else-such as you need to seek pyschiatric. It appears to me-like the you are once again getting quite desperate.

As for your comment about how many times I used your name in this thread-you are correct. But in return-how about your use of my name? And what is even more important-is not how many times you used my name-but the way that you respond to it.


JustMe,

Your mention of my answer to the question of posting on the Board is correct. You are absolutely correct with the wording. However, what I meant was that I read or sign in on the Board 2 to 4 times per week. What I was trying to convey to the Board Members-is that I usually checked the Board 2 to 4 times per week. However, each of those 2 to 4 days that I sign in on the Board-I usually make multiple posts.

JustMe-you are absolute correct-in pointing out my error of wording. I hope the above explanation clears matters up. Addtionally, you made an excellent point-and did point out an error in my posting. Oops-sorry for the less then perfectly accurate information.

[Phantom]

I knew I shouldn't have clicked on this thread.

[Ozzy]

forget about this shit,


so who do i have to go thru to see mandie. the old e-mail i have doesn't seem to be working.

[Phantom]

Ozzy,

Just remember to post your review in the "Southern NJ/Eastern PA" section.

That board's alittle show and could sure use a *real* hot thread to liven it up a bit. Thanks.

[Ozzy]

the creature (http://www.moviesounds.com/amadeus/hadher.wav)

[Phantom]

That's pretty funny.

[Bill Furniture]

Originally posted by Phantom
That's pretty funny.

funny!:D

[Rufus Moses]

Back to the topic of this thread (but not trying to kill other discussions that have sprouted up)....I am back from travel and read the Bagger Vance thing (I didn't see the movie so I have no idea if this is related or what....)

The primary negative (however constructively intended) comment is something like: "Get over it! You are wasting way too much time and/or spirit on this".

I understand why some might say that, but they are mistaken.

First, Rufus Moses is something I do not someone I am...the sum total of all things related to the hobby are such a small psychic investment that there is no possibility of psychic damage.

Thus, all remaining considerations are practical.

So here is how that goes...

Rufus Moses is a trademark of sorts...a label of identity that one hopes illicits a feeling of trust...(and in this case should for good reasons). It is useful to me on these boards, via e-mail, etc. to be able to exercise the Rufus Moses trademark. But that trademark is only at useful as its reputation.

So when JAG says malicious things about me, especially things that would cause others to lose trust, the very raison d'etre for Rufus is threatened.

Being Rufus is only of value if folks entrust me with info they may not otherwise. (I imply no super-connectedness here...just better-than-average-connectedness).

So the choice is to either preserve the functionality of Rufus Moses, or allow JAG to render him inoperable. Rufus likes being operational. And so do you.

So the only remaining question is "yes, but at what cost?". The speculation being that I am wasting soooo terribly much time doing this.

The truth is I am incredibly productive...and Rufus is something I do during *downtime* for fun. I get more done in a day than many do in a month.

And note the economics of my posting style. Either consolidated factual semi-large posts once in a while, or short fast posts of jokes of factoids. My post count is low compared to many, but I think I make them count.

So don't worry about me (or diss me) in this regard. JAG hardly causes me any true mental anguish, I am just protecting my good online name, and when you are telling the truth protecting your good name doesn't have to be terribly expensive.

[Rufus Moses]

Oh, there is also the sentiment "give up on trying to save JAG. If you can do it better start your own board again your own way."

First, I am no longer trying to save or improve JAG...just trying to discredit them to undermine the false personal charges they leveled at me...

Second, what makes you so sure I haven't?

[Vincent Gambini]

By Thorn: Perhaps a section, like the NY/NJ/CT Spa section, etc, devoted to the $600+ experience? I mean, there is a section called "Cheap Thrills". Why not its counterpart ["Expensive Tastes"], perhaps?



I couldn't agree more.

[justme]

Rooster - no biggie, I just wanted to make sure you weren't fooling yourself about how much energy you were devoting to UG.

(Really, I'm just a bit of a research wonk, so when you posted a number that seemed 'not quite right' I thought I'd check it out.)

[RoosterC74]

JustMe,

Actually, you pointed out something quite informative to me-THANKS! You were actually right on target.

For All The Others,

Things are getting fairly desperate around here with certain people-they need to bring back the name of girl who has continually asked not to be mentioned on this Board. What is the name of that song-Deparado? I guess certain people will stoop (and I mean STOOP) to almost any level.

Rufus,

I can understand your points. I may not agree with everything you stated-but I can certainly understand where you are coming from. Kudos-for standing up straight-and saying what you felt.

Ozzy,

I thought you wrote something earlier in this thread like-If you got something to state then state it! Well go ahead and state what you need to state "Mr. Legend In Your Own Mind"! You started your post-by selectively saying to drop it and move on. Then-you poke the dagger in you slick little way. When the going gets rough around here-and you do not get your way-you appear to keep bringing up the name of people/or a person that really has told several people that she does not wish to be mentioned around here. In fact, wasn't it you that several months told us that you had spoken with her-and that she was going to become a member of this Board and begin posting on it? Strange isn't it-she still has not posted anything on this Board-because those of us that had the pleasure of her company many months ago, were told by her-that she wanted to not be mentioned on this Board. That was her choice-and just about everyone that had the pleasure of her company abided by it. Strange too-that she told me and other Board Members-that she never even remembered having that so-called telephone conversation with you.

Ozzy-plain and simple I do not have a great deal of time for your unending bull shit. You do not get your way-so you tell me to see a psychiatrist-yeah right! Typical kind of statement-by someone who acts like a child when he does not get his way. Pretty pathetic no-someone challenging Ozzy-on what he considers his Board! You are a an Absolute Liar-that frets when he does not get his way.

In all honesty, I am not going to waste anytime even responding to your idiotic comments on this Board. I am turning over a New Rooster Leaf in regards to you. As of 4:17 on April 15th My Resolution is to totally ignore your posts, and comments. Lets see how long I can stand it?

[El Chupacabra]

what is the difference if the princess mandie name is mentioned on the jag non memember board or here....both are public boards open to any and all....since you seem to be the authority on the princess on all matters....tell me....is it true that all guys wanting to see the princess mandie have to pass screening by you in order to get her new email address?

cmon rooster, spill your guts....

[Ozzy]

rooster.....


i only asked what her new e-mail addy is. if you want to kep it private than it can be sent to me back channel (we have at least one mutual friend). unless YOU won't allow me to see this special philly treat.

as for any conversation i had with mandie....littleguy knows for a fact that last summer i had scheduled an appointment with her (in NNJ) and that due to a last minute schedule change (on her part), i was forced to cancel a day or two before thru a phone conversation in which she called me to tell me of her change of schedule.


btw..... if i were you i'd tell little mandie not to discuss other clients with you and the other board members you mentioned...... now you know why i never tell providers i'm Ozzy



this is a post from mandie on jags non-member board:


By Mandie : on Saturday, March 09, 2002 - 05:22 pm:


Sorry, my msn inbox is very full and when i send an email it goes into my outbox, i'm working on deleting more email. - Do you know my yahoo email address ??

I hope to hear from you soon, if you don't know my yahoo email address ask rooster and tell him i said to give it to you, he can also give you my number, I just don't want either one posted here ya know.



well, she said to ask rooster.......................and i'm asking. so what's it gonna be rooster? are you gonna send me her e-mail and phone # or are you gonna be the pimp that you are and screen her future clients.



and don't say SHE doesn't want to see me...... after all, she's never met me and would have NO reason not to see me since NO girl has ever said a bad thing about me.



you said a few months ago that i couldn't have spoken to mandie because she didn't have a phone..........hmmmmmmm. her post above says you're the liar on that fact.

[Ozzy]

let me tell you something rooster...

you couldn't ignore me if your life depended on it. i've tried ignoring you for months but YOU continue to bring me up in your posts and stick your beak into discussions (like this one) where i wasn't talking to you and you still found a way to come in and take a few cheap shots at Ozzy.


well just for that i'm gonna make it my business to expose you for the mother fucking pimp you are. my business should be done by the end of the week.

[littleguy]

"So when JAG says malicious things about me, especially things that would cause others to lose trust, the very raison d'etre for Rufus is threatened. Being Rufus is only of value if folks entrust me with info they may not otherwise. (I imply no super-connectedness here... just better-than-average-connectedness)......"

Rufus, I'll be the first one to tell anybody that my memory ain't worth a shit (and I can't even blame Alzheimer's), but when and where was the first, last, or any time that JAG has impuned your reputation "publicly". I'd be interested in seeing it.

Was it ON JAG or was it on another board ? Was it recent ? After all, you say "JAG SAYS malicious things". Present tense, not SAID malicious things. This implies, if not today or yesterday, it was at least relatively recently that these things impuning your reputation have been posted. When ? Where ?

[jras]

Think I'll pack the bong and watch a while.

[Rufus Moses]

I don't think I implied that JAG (by which I mean MM & MC/John B) posted lies about me here. Others may have repeated them here...I don't remember.

But I know what they posted on JAG. And I know that many JAGsters are also here. And I've been banned from JAG so I can't defend myself there.

So I make the posts here. And it works. (How do I know? By the email I get.)

But there is no way I am going to repeat the lies they've told about me here.

Assuming they've not further manipulated history to control the future (although I don't put any 1984ish behavior past them) it's all on JAG. Next time you are there just use the search function...

[The Ghost of JAG]

By MadMach on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 06:10 pm:

Rufus Moses,

First of all, I am very disappointed at you. As a former MadChaos, you should know better than just posting this unfounded rumor on the discussion board. You should've asked us for the verification of truth.

I personally have never given access to any providers. I don't believe MadChaos gave access to anyone either.

If you can tell us who we supposedly gave an access to, please let us know and tell anyone and everyone.

I am really sad that you act in such a juvenile manner. After all we have done for you, is this the way you repay us?

MadMach

By MadMach on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 06:26 pm:


I am officially banning Rufus Moses from JAG. We should've never let him come back after he officially announced that he would retire from the hobby. But out of respect for the former MadChaos and with his pleading, we let him back in.

We will be more than happy to answer any questions regarding this unfounded rumor posted by Rufus Moses.

If anyone can post names of providers I or MadChaos supposedly gave an access to, we will be happy answer any questions.

Out of respect for a former MadChaos, we will not discuss his motive as to why he posted this, even though we have a pretty good idea why he did this. We will also refrain from any personal attacks on him. Nor we will discuss what kind of person he truly was as I and MadChaos really know what kind of person he is.

However, for the safety of JAG members, I feel obligated to post the following fact:

He and #3 MadChaos went into such a furious fight and disagreement that police was called upon as well as death threats were exchanged between these two people.


MadMach

By MadMach on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 08:54 pm:


First of all, I and MadChaos have no reason to provide an access to any providers. We don't ask for any payment and they don't give us money for protection.

Second, we never received any free sessions nor any discount from any providers.

Can anyone think of any good reasons as to why I or MadChaos would provide an access to providers intentionally?

If any of you can name any providers who insist that we received any financial payment or received free sessions, please say so.

Only money we received from few providers in the past were for JAG advertisement and the last time we received any money for any advertisement must have been over a year ago.

If anyone accused either me or MadChaos of any wrong doings, you better have real good solid proof.

I am really tired of contant bitching and moaning from a freeloader, who spreads a false rumor.

In addition, I am tired of false rumors and innuendos. If you are not happy with JAG and if you think that I or MadChaos are giving access to the providers intentionally, feel free to leave JAG.

Please, no more innuendos and spreading false rumors. You are here voluntarily. If not happy, leave voluntarily.

MadMach

===============================

Sort of cute, actually, considering the recent spate of ( at least 3 ) providers known to have crashed that party recently. But with so few members left posting to the"member's area ( although who knows how many actually have members ), perhaps their recent plea needs wider publication. maybe we can help out and get them the advice they seek. Anyone hear care to help ? :

JAG Member Discussion Board: Notes/Request/Alert to JAG: JAG Mgmt would like to hear suggestions on how to attract new members.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By MadMach on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 01:51 pm:

MC and I would like to ask the members how we can attract genunine and prolific hobbyists to join JAG.

MadMach

[Casper]

ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[RoosterC74]

Nada

[Ozzy]

i thought so, you pimp......

so i'll take these last few moments to point out how foolish you are....



mandie will post and and communicate with clients from a board (jag) where they accuse her of being a junkie, a street whore and worse but, you can't even mention her name on an equally public (and surely more provider friendly) board where she has never had a bad thing said about her (UG). i seriously doubt it's her conscious choice not to be here (on UG) since YOU were the first and ONLY person to post those wishes on her behalf. i'm betting that you probably polluted her poor little brain into thinking UG was some god awful place, so you could better control her flow of clients.

here's a sample of whats being said about mandie on that board that supposedly supports her and protects her....un-like here on UG.......



By streetguy on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 07:53 pm:

--Being the cheapskate that I am, I very rarely use "professional girls". I tend to meet local street versions in the 40-80 range in the Philly area.
--A gentleman I work with always brags about the girls he meets and on occasion I have contacted a couple but usually too rich for my tastes.
--For the past couple of months though hes bragged about a girls hes been seeing telling me that I have to open my wallet and at least try this girl. He told me for $$$ shed give 2 hours of basically anything I wanted and as many times as I could. Also if I was able to get her on a roll on a subject he said she often will forget about time and while spacing out will run well into the 3rd hour. So I figured that sounded like something to try out.
--So I get her email address, say Im from Jag (i'm not) andand give her a reference and she sends me back a nice letter and a couple of pics. HOLY SMOKES !! Ive dated this girls for about 2 years and never gave her more than 80 and that was a good day for her. Well one thing for sure my coworker was right about was the spacy part. But I used to think it kinda cute with her.I sorta lost contact with her last spring. She said she was getting out of the business and asked if I could respect that and not call anymore and I was actually glad thinking she might have found herself.
--I told my buddy this and he couldn't believe me. So I showed him pics she let me take of her on my poloriod and that when he let out the same HOLY SMOKES that I did. I told him the story behind this girl and asked if he would pass it on but he said he wanted no part of it. Saying he would probably get flammed and hated forever. But he said if I wanted to post on the non-member board and let it go from there.
--The girls name as I knew of her and always believed to be her name was Nina. (even had a necklace with her name on it). I guess she decided to use Miranda went she got off the street.
--Maybe as a warning to all you guys I'll let you in on her backround and how I met her. She first started out around Front and Berks which wasnt a great area for this girl to be at but apparently came here from upstate Pa. with a drug(heroin) habit with her boyfriend and he for some reason left her here. Well she hooked up with some girl whos old man was pinping her. I was glad when she got out of that situation and even though not great wound up with some guy she called Buddy off of the Blvd. It used to freak me out when she would bring me in there house if we were gonna have fs. Either he wouldnt be there or shed give him 10 bucks to leave. But let me tell you as finicky as Nina (miranda) was about her apprearance this place was a shithole. Trash everywhere and of course dog turds actually embedded in the carpets which seemed to hang around forever. She said it was his dog and she refused to clean it up. ! How gross ! But hey she was so pretty and gave such great head and had such a nice tight coochie and actually got into the session I would soon forget my surroundings and just focus on this beauty instead.
--This was the first hooker I ever met that seemed to somewhat control or be responsible about her addiction. She always looked nice and didnt have track marks all over her. She used to say the trick was to only use a needle once and trade them in for new ones at some place in North Philly that did an exchange program. On a couple of occasions I even got the shit scared out of me by doing her a faor and taking her to N Philly to pick up drugs. Nothing you would ever want to do. But in return instead of giving her an extra 20 to go BBFS she would let me slide for the ride. She would always bithch about all the guys who didnt want to wear condoms and knowing she needed the extra cash would always take advantage of that.
-- Hopefully she had gotten rid of him and is doing something well with all the miney seh is probably making now. Maybe even able to get into a detox program of some sort if she hasnt already. My friedn did mention about someone bringing up a point that she wore a couple of badaids and that someoone thoought it looked like needle marks but was quickly shot down by her regulars. That was probably right guys. I never seen her with the bandaids but on the street she didnt need to cover up those marks.
--Well I hope she does well here with all you guys and hopefully one day shell get her act together. But you better be carefull, No Matter how pretty or how nice this girls is shwe worked the streets for a few years and I guess she wont tell you all the truth and horror storiesa but shes been through some stuff out there. And yes bare back everything is the game on the streets. Wrap that rascal and hey with the economy still slow maybe you guys can get together and work her down to 150.Its still better than what she was getting and then I might even give it a shot again. Just for old times sake.

By JohnB on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 09:18 am:


streetguy.. as i have seen mandie myself.. what you stated rings alot of truth to me.. there is some controversy regarding your posting inside of the member's area.. (but no flame war)..

i would much appreciate if you can share much of your findings with jag brothers.. it seems like you know where to go and how to find a good service at a great price..

johnb, the rebel without a clue..

[RoosterC74]

Nada

[Ozzy]

and more.....




By anotherstreetguy on Wednesday, March 27, 2002 - 04:55 pm:


Just wanted to add that what streetguy says is true. I use to pick up "Miranda" on the street also. Everyone has to know that she's a heroin addict who went upscale and is charging more.....be careful guys....always us protection

[RoosterC74]

Nada

[Ozzy]

and still more......



enjoy everyone, read what they say about roosters little princess on his beloved jag where no harm can happen to her, yet UG is too evil for her name to even be mentioned here..... i wonder why this all became an issue after rooster started pimping the little thing.



http://www.jaginfo.net/non_member_discus/cgi/board-auth.pl?file=/40/1490.html

[RoosterC74]

Damn-this is FUN! However, I think I am going inside to watch the rest of My Beloved Yankees-That's All Folks!

[Ozzy]

oh...there's more.....tons more bad shit about mandie on jag but this is just a teaser.




btw rooster....... too bad she has more pimps involved in her life than all the girls at julies put together....i'll score with one of them and will most definitely chat with her when we meet and i will most definitely post her glowing review right here on UG with the rest of my fine works.....



...well on UG's private review board anyway*






* didn't know about that one.....did you rooster.





jras.... sure wish i were with you sharing those bong hits........ hope the smoke feels as good as i do right now.

[jras]

Originally posted by Ozzy
jras.... sure wish i were with you sharing those bong hits........ hope the smoke feels as good as i do right now.

It's your favorite -- skunk.
The High End Shit.

[littleguy]

Not that it matters but those things said about Miranda were said on the "non-member's" board where anyone and everyone can post. None of that was said inside on the "member's" board. There was, and still is speculation whether any of that is or was true.

As UG members are disinclined to believe "single digit posters", JAG members are likewise disinclined to believe "unknowns" there as well.

[Ozzy]

littleguy...

my point wasn't to say mandie is guilty of anything! just that she participates on a board and you're allowed to discuss her on this board, even if it means trashing her. yet roster leads people to believe that she can't be mentioned on this board (or any other ?) because she doesn't want things written about her here? ....... nope, thaaaaaaaaaaat's nooooooot iiiiiiiiiit. is it rooster?


btw.... i thought i had said (non) members board but i see i wrote equally public as UG....(my bad). so it wasn't meant to mislead anyone. but that's my point... this stuff is being written on a board that is free for anyone to see just as UG is. this isn't on jags private board, and no one is asking for the posters to stop posting her name there, as is the case here on UG where rooster demands it every time someone says it. you can even post on the jag non-member board without registering (as a basic member) (unlike UG).....if i'm not mistaken, i read jag but i haven't tried to post there in almost a year. so UG is even more secure than the jag non-member board in that respect.


I also understand the thing with first time and unknown posters… happens everywhere and all the time. I just tend to ignore them unless they write something that I feel the need to respond to, and that never has anything to do with a post count. I rarely even look at someone’s post count let alone judge them by it because we all had to start somewhere, and there’s plenty of people here who were first time posters just a few months ago that are regular everyday contributors to the board today.

Well just wanted to prove my point and teach my friend a lesson to leave me the fuck alone and to stop his petty BS that he throws at everyone (not just me). He can play silent now and make believe he’s taking some sort of high road (who’s he foolin)but his track record speaks for itself. Just like I said about him not being anything special to me….….i’m not his first nor his last either.

[pswope]

Having read the aforementioned JAG thread,re Mandie I have 2 questions

1. When does an enterprising BO(Board Operator) establish a PMBDR* forum to reslove these interminable message board factual disputes?
2. Where is this JohnK.I Want to hear more from him?




* Prostitution Message Board Dispute Resolution



(ps- I used to be Mack,so I hope this lends more cr****ce to my post)

[hombre]

Hey, Rufus? I don't know where you're getting your info, but I don't recall seeing your name mentioned anywhere on JAG for a while.

[Rufus Moses]

That's because....

despite the fact that I saved JAG from the bit bucket twice...

despite the fact that the current operators made a personal promise to me to carry JAG forward in its traditional democratic and no-supply-side-pro-consumer mode...

despite the fact that the current operators also gave me a permanent membership as part of the terms of JAG's transfer...

...as soon as I pointed out the JAG operators (MC/MM/John B) had broken their no-supply-side promise they *terminated* my access and even blocked my IP address so I can't post on the non-member board or even see the non-member board..at all...

...at least they *think* they've blocked my access...obviously I still know more than a bit about what is going on there...

So this is what you now get when you deal with JAG...people who break their promises, and lie about it when you call them on it, and simply terminate dissent by shutting out those who speak the truth...

[The Ghost of JAG]

Rufus,

Are you refering to the current thread where someone is being told not to post some girl's name ( on the "private" hahaha board ), as well as the spate of "supply side" posts ( on that board ), at the same time as the broadband membership campaign ( a lot of which is being sent to obvious "supply siders" ) touting JAG as a place where they can feel free to post, free from the prying eyes of the supply side ?

[Rufus Moses]

That is certainly a good example of the kind of duplicitous behavior that has become the norm there.

[Ozzy]

sorry to break into rufus's thread again but it is being shared with rooster and his efforts to keep mandie off of UG. i saw a post on jags member board today from mandie by way of proxy (who's name i won't mention) to be posted on jag and ***. so mandie apparently has Zero issue with her name being posted on *** (since she requested it). what's that rooster...... a lower profile board than UG? i'm still betting little mandie doesn't have a single issue with being mentioned on UG........................ONLY ROOSTER DOES! they only question left....is why?

ok..back to your scheduled broadcast.







btw....... i'm also betting that it isn't even mandie posting on the jag non-member board either. since it seems she can't make posts on *** herself i'm guessing her internet access is quite limited.... that means e-mails as well. which takes us back to that "who's reading mandies e-mails today" question. something to think about for anyone who attemps to e-mail her.

[mydesign]

I hear that julie has cut out the link to UG from her members site, something about too much bickering and provider bashing on this site.

I wonder why she would think that?

[Ozzy]

especially when she had even more severe bashing on her own board a few weeks ago.


or maybe her new webmaster (jag) requested it.



see how the pieces of the puzzle start falling into place when you're not being honest. it always happens eventually.

[mydesign]

Originally posted by Ozzy
especially when she had even more severe bashing on her own board a few weeks ago.


or maybe her new webmaster (jag) requested it.



requested or ordered?

[Slinky Bender]

omigod....is someone "accusing" Ozzy of understating something ? This surely must be one of the Seven Signs.....;)

[hombre]

Originally posted by Rufus Moses
That's because....

despite the fact that I saved JAG from the bit bucket twice...

despite the fact that the current operators made a personal promise to me to carry JAG forward in its traditional democratic and no-supply-side-pro-consumer mode...

despite the fact that the current operators also gave me a permanent membership as part of the terms of JAG's transfer...

...as soon as I pointed out the JAG operators (MC/MM/John B) had broken their no-supply-side promise they *terminated* my access and even blocked my IP address so I can't post on the non-member board or even see the non-member board..at all...

...at least they *think* they've blocked my access...obviously I still know more than a bit about what is going on there...

So this is what you now get when you deal with JAG...people who break their promises, and lie about it when you call them on it, and simply terminate dissent by shutting out those who speak the truth...

Damn, Rufus --

You realize -- don't you? -- that this has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying? Let me try again: where on JAG is your name being mentioned? 'Cause I haven't seen it.

[Ozzy]

hombre...

it's on the jag member board about 6 months back. i think rufus quoted it or the ghost of jag quoted it somewhere in this thread. basically MM called rufus a liar and said something about having to call the cops because he (rufus) supposedly made threats to MC/MM(?) ...among other things.



btw.... did you check out April's new girl? Marina (http://www.aprilselite.com/item.asp?id=54) i know you and i share very similar tastes in woman (especially when they be brazilian) and i'm really digging this new girl big time. i hear she has quite a reputation from some highly valued sources i know..... too bad i don't shit where i eat or i'd pop over and see her right now.



being Ozzy does have it's draw backs......

[Geezy Muldoon]

(Young Attorney: Your honor, I move to request that the witness's comments be stricken from the record as non-responsive to the issues and questions raised in this thread.)

(Judge Crater: I grant your request and direct the witness to respond to the issues questions raised in this thread. Alternatively, he should be prepared to spend the night in lock down at Paris-in-Town with a box of leaky rubbers and a roomful of older women with lip sores who refuse to take out their upper plates for the BBBJ.)

[Rufus Moses]

Hombre...sorry for misreading your post...an honest mistake on my part I assure you...

The posts in question from JAG were copied here in this very thread by "Ghost of JAG" on 04-15-2002 11:16 PM.

[hombre]

Originally posted by Ozzy
btw.... did you check out April's new girl? Marina (http://www.aprilselite.com/item.asp?id=54) i know you and i share very similar tastes in woman (especially when they be brazilian) and i'm really digging this new girl big time. i hear she has quite a reputation from some highly valued sources i know..... too bad i don't shit where i eat or i'd pop over and see her right now.

I know her; she's a real fave of mine from Gina's place. I wrote a long review of her ("Jocelyn") last Fall. Very nice, among my current favorites.

it's on the jag member board about 6 months back. i think rufus quoted it or the ghost of jag quoted it somewhere in this thread. basically MM called rufus a liar and said something about having to call the cops because he (rufus) supposedly made threats to MC/MM(?) ...among other things.

I dimly remember something like that a while back, but since I'm taking everything that goes on between current and former JAG management with a grain of salt -- and maybe more than a grain -- it didn't really register. Reading this thread, it sounded like an ongoing campaign currently in progress, and that just isn't the case.

The posts in question from JAG were copied here in this very thread by "Ghost of JAG" on 04-15-2002 11:16 PM.

Jeez, Rufus, you can't let guys tweak your nads like that. There's old shit floating around out there; it doesn't make sense to let it get to you just because someone decides to recycle an old post. I mean, that crap's from last July.

[justbill]

Is it just me or has this dead horse been beaten too long?

[justlooking]

To some, this is one incredibly important dead horse.

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by hombre


I know her; she's a real fave of mine from Gina's place. I wrote a long review of her ("Jocelyn") last Fall. Very nice, among my current favorites.



i know....... like i said, "i heard she had quite a reputation from some highly valued sources"


btw.... wasn't that the review in question that was mass e-mailed to everyone when jag was having a membership drive a few weeks ago?

[littleguy]

IS or WAS

Nobody any of you ex-Jagsters cares about is there anymore. You're all here. Why do you care so much what goes on over there ???

That's what I really don't get (among So many other things).

hombre,

That's what i was trying to say to Rufus earlier. That shit's from last July and it sounds like it's going on as we speak.

[justlooking]

Because UG will never be as good as JAG was.

[Rufus Moses]

It is ongoing...

JAG continues to have significant supply side conflicts of interest (see initial post in this thread)...

JAG continues to allow supply side access to the board...

JAG continues to lie to its members and possible new members about it...

Why isn't this an ongoing discussion on JAG? Because anyone who brings it up gets thrown off!

[hombre]

Originally posted by Ozzy
wasn't that the review in question that was mass e-mailed to everyone when jag was having a membership drive a few weeks ago?

I think the one in the mailing was for Jaqueline, another girl at the same place.

[Bill Furniture]

Originally posted by Ozzy
i saw a post on jags member board today from mandie by way of proxy (who's name i won't mention) to be posted on jag and ***. so mandie apparently has Zero issue with her name being posted on *** (since she requested it).

It was I, thank you:)

[Bill Furniture]

Originally posted by justlooking
Because UG will never be as good as JAG was.

Was that a poke at UG? If so, Slinky&Co are gonna be angry!

[Rufus Moses]

It is worth talking about now because JAG is as corrupt now as it was 6 months ago.

They continue to lie to prospective new members *now*.

Newbies deserve to be warned about bad providers and bad boards...even if it is old news to some of us.

Especially when the bad provider, or the bad board, is in a heavy marketing mode trying to pull in new marks...

Especially when there is even better new evidence that the provider, or board, is corrupt and unfair...

Especially when some folks act as if the provider, or board, treats clients fairly when it is plainly not the case at all...

[Rufus Moses]

And by the way...remember that this thread *was* started on the basis of totally new events...

The discovery that those banned from JAG were suddenly also banned from Julies site...

And the related discovery that JAG is apparently now hosting Julies site...

The fact that the folks banned from JAG are now banned from Julies as well says to me that *JAG* thinks dispute is very much ongoing indeed...

[Rufus Moses]

Finally...someone here has said that disputes between former and current operators of boards should be taken with grains of salt...

I am not asking anyone to merely take my word for any of this...you can look and think and decide for yourself...look over the first post again, and look over some of JAG's recruitment materials, and look over JAG's denials.

I think any reasonable person will have to conclude that JAG is in fact doing all of the things they have been accused of, and that they are happy to lie and lie as they deny and deny.

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by Bill Furniture


Was that a poke at UG? If so, Slinky&Co are gonna be angry!


it's not a poke, bill... it's like saying that the yankees of the 70's or 90's aren't as good as the yankees of the 20's or 50's.


that's how good jag was and why so many are pissed at what it's become.


btw.... i'm glad you mentioned it was you on that mandie post. still curious as to why *** is ok to post her name and not UG, considering the reason rooster keeps giving is that UG is too public for her. so i'll ask again...... whats the difference between....UG or ***.


oh, i almost forgot.....Rooster said mandie didn't want her name on *** either. well at least thats what he says.


ok...it's only thursday and my business is done one day early.... think i'll go out and find some UTR chick to post about tomorrow.

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Rufus Moses
[B]It is worth talking about now because JAG is as corrupt now as it was 6 months ago./B].

Or longer -- unless rufus still denies asking for discounts and freebies on the basis of being "a former Mad Chaos."

Fine.

Still, it might useful to point for the benefit of those who haven't a clue what this is all about that the JAG rufus claims to have twice "saved" bore little or no resemblance to what many of us here sometimes refer to as "the old JAG."

rufus's JAG -- parts of which can be seen in the JAG Archives -- was primarily a small group of low-rent whorehounds and flat-out perverts who traded stray bits of information in an obsessive quest for the cheapest possible wet place to put a penis. (In that, it bears a passing resemblance to littleguy and Bill Furniture's JAG.)

But it bore virtually *no* resemblance to the JAG where Mr Pitiful, slinkybender, hot4chicks, mack, tuanjim_99, guy catelli, JohnB, Zuggie, johnfrancis, hobbymaster, frog, speigal and even viagra vic posted hundreds of thousands of interesting words in the late 1990s.

(Indeed, rufus's JAG bore about about the same relationship to the JAG which the current Mad Chaos built and once absent-mindedly supervised as the McDonald brothers hamburger stand bore to Ray Kroc's corporation ten years later.)

(It's a poor simile -- but it has the *distinct virtue* of invoking a cheap hamburger.)

rufus got thrown off JAG for the same reason guy catelli did -- being more trouble than he was worth.

Of course, like guy -- whom he resembles more and more -- rufus would like us all to think it was because he was the voice of reason and integrity.

Unfortunately, like guy, he's merely another obsessive crank looking for the self-satisfaction of being thought a martyr.

It's a damn shame.

[Hotpuppy]

Originally posted by justlooking
To some, this is one incredibly important dead horse.

One dead horse here, another dead horse in the high end room, and a third dead horse on the latest CajunDawn soap opera thread. Could this be a record?
take care
HP( any more dead horses should go on the R.I.P. thread)

[Ozzy]

where is Zuggie these days.

and lets not forget john francis, hobbymaster, frog, speigal and of course viagra vic.

[Hotpuppy]

...and Seamus, who I will always be indebted to
hp

[Bill Furniture]

Originally posted by Ozzy

it's not a poke, bill... it's like saying that the yankees of the 70's or 90's aren't as good as the yankees of the 20's or 50's.

that's how good jag was and why so many are pissed at what it's become.

btw.... i'm glad you mentioned it was you on that mandie post. still curious as to why *** is ok to post her name and not UG, considering the reason rooster keeps giving is that UG is too public for her. so i'll ask again...... whats the difference between....UG or ***.

Oz, JAG must have been a helluva board.

There aren't that many UGers down in the Philly area...yet, so I wouldn't worry about it. ***'s been in Philly for a long time and she may have seen some people from there.

[Rufus Moses]

"Or longer -- unless rufus still denies asking for discounts and freebies on the basis of being "a former Mad Chaos."

Ari, I don't know where you got the above but it is simply not true. Ever. The *only* time I even mentioned JAG to anyone on the supply side was (1) after I was not MC anymore in order to (2) get screened for a first visit to Julies. The girl I wanted to see was already gone, I've never gone to Julies once, and in any case I was certainly not looking for a discount.

If you have any evidence that makes you think I abused my role as MC then by all means POST IT RIGHT HERE. I hope my charity is not misplaced when I say you have obviously been mislead by others with an agenda.

(2)

As for the relative quality of JAG old and new...you would be surprised to know that I helped the current MC for many months after the hand off. Many of the improvements made were my ideas or the result of our discussions. Of course JAG grew and improved...but much of that was due to the unique culture I and many others had a hand in helping to create. And, indeed, some of the people you list came on board while I was either the actual MC or otherwise still quite involved.

(3)

In any case your ad hominem attacks have no real content. Nothing you've said here undermines any of the information I posted at the start of this thread.

Fancy name calling is no substitute for facts and substance.

If you have something of actual relevance to this topic I'd love to see it.

[Rufus Moses]

Hotpuppy...I will grant this...I can carry a grudge...JAG did me wrong and I still expect a public apology...since they banned me it was difficult to defend myself properly...

but yeah...Rufus being banned is a dead horse...

BUT...

JAG still tells members that JAG is free of supply-side readers, and that JAG itself is free of compromises and ties to the supply-side.

When (as this recent IP address info shows now more than ever) this is clearly not true.

JAG's corruption and deceit is very much alive. *You* may know about it...thousands of lurkers here may not....

[Ozzy]

bill...

picture the best of UG mixed with the best on TER or any review board*, with absolutely Zero chance of providers peeking in because jag never had a real web address and was pretty hard to find even if you were looking for it, then throw in about a 100-200 tightly knit group of guys bull-shitting about the girls and being brutally honest and NO SHILLS.....


and you have somewhat an idea of what the old jag was about.





*.... and remember, when jag was the oldjag..... there were no other review boards. at least none that i knew of with any substance. *** like UG was always more of a discussion board than a review board. jag had the best of both worlds, and then some. it was the original mens club. also.... you don't have the membership of the old jag... members who posted about sweedish nanny's and 150/hr UTR girls who grew into internet legends charging upwards of 500-1000/hr (ie diana of dallas and tasha ray). jag wasn't about the board... it was about the members who made it. those same members who were stabbed in the back sometime later. the current jag talks about julies, julies and julies...and when not talking about julies they throw stones at people like April who has been nothing but the most straight foward person on the providing end that this little corner of the world has ever seen.

[RoosterC74]

I will start once again with the continued slogan-"NADA". And yes, it will remain my slogan-as per my recent resolution. Additionally, guys-thanks for the several private e-mails of encouragement. You are correct-NADA is the correct path to take. Your private suggestions were quite helpful.

It amazes me how much time some people have to waste on the negative aspects of what should be a very enjoyable hobby. I believe the problem occurs when it becomes all they have in life-and then it becomes the most important thing and in fact at times-the only thing in life to them. I guess they will continue to see the cup as half empty-instead of half filled. Pretty sorry state of life!

I do have to thank a few of the guys over the past couple of days (since I last checked in on the Board) for writing some very interesting positive and negative information about providers. The positive ones regarding Catrina (I hope the spelling is correct), Alini, etc. certainly create a nice To-Do-List for some of us guys. And the negative ones, certainly provide us with information where not to spend our hard earned bucks.

[Ozzy]

it's caterina (patricia)....

and if i were the person you are..

i'd be fielding her e-mails and preventing you from seeing her..... just like you guys did to poor phantom and i'm sure to a few others.



but i'm not you........i'm better than you. go see P/C and enjoy the ride.




take care rooster...i'm done with you now.

[Aristotle]

rufus moses writes: "Nothing you've said here undermines any of the information I posted at the start of this thread."

1) You said that other day that "rufus moses" was, in effect, nothing more than a brand name. (Of course that's wrong -- like of all of us who post too much, including me, there's a superabundance of the real you in "rufus.")

Still, even granting your claim, the question in my mind is whether "rufus moses" deserves to be ranked with Phillip Morris, Arthur Andersen and Enron or something much simpler -- such as "Pee Wee Herman."

In any event, I'm quite content for people here to form their own judgments on the basis of your own posts.

2) So far as I know, I have never been lied to by anyone connected with the management of JAG. For any number of reasons, I don't think they'd do that. And while I don't countenance mistakes they've made over the past couple years, and recognize that I may be wrong, I don't think I am.

P.S. Since I'm apparently the only living JAGster with an intact memory, let me also point out that the business about rufus's difficulties with another Mad Chaos -- which apparently involved personality dysfunction on both ends (and threats of personal violence culminating in a call to the police) -- was discussed on JAG without complaint long before it was resurrected by Mad Mach. The time for rufus to complain it was a lie was then -- not later, when he decided to mount his own intifada.

[Ozzy]

ari...


i agree with most of what you said and i have a pretty good memory of jag from when i got there in it's infancy. i'm not rufus moses so i couldn't care less about his "intifada". for the few things we do agree on.... rufus and i usually agree on those issues for very different reasons. my little "intifada" is more like hiding behind some big IDF soilder and yelling over his shoulder at yassar arafat, than barging thru town on the best built machinery in the world and blowing away anything in sight, as rufus is doing. i agree with you that this is not the right timing for this.... unless this intifada leads to a revolution and eventual over throw or take over of the current tyrant. (not that that's what i'm implying or advising).

that said, i gotta disagree with you that jag never lied to any of us. for one they lied about the cost of maintenance to run jag and the equipment they were claiming they needed, used or bought. i know little about web hosting but i've met enough webmasters (some far bigger than the mad twins) thru being involved in all this internet BS we dabble in and all have the same conclusion that in no way were those numbers they threw around accurate or even remotely ballpark. now they run the place and they're entitled to charge whatever they want, throw who ever they don't want out and not allow any one in they don't want....in. but they still lied. they also showed Zero respect for the membership at large by calling 90% of them (i think they said only10% ever donated) dead- beats and free-loaders. how could anyone do that when the place was free and they only asked for DONATIONS and only after it was upgraded and even then only once every few months. now since i was always a donator and later a paid member i didn't think this was a big issue with me. although i personaly felt not offering me a lifetime membership over some of the low-life free loaders they did lately was an insult to me, and something i thought was due to my involvement in UG (before i ever spouted an evil word about jag or julies).

i think jag also lied about no providers having access. i don't think i've ever gone as far to say that they knowingly gave access (free or otherwise) to the providing end (although it's my guess, Yes) but , they definitely knew they were there (and who they were) and did nothing to correct the situation. even if they didn't know infobooth was candy day (which i find hard to believe since they had to know the IP's matched with their own miss jag) they still knew providers were there as i'm sure they received e-mails with questions about the site from them. i know for certain two ladies who e-mailed jag about issues they had... either questions about posting or advertising or in one case, a lady who wanted her review edited or removed after reading it. both made it clear in e-mails that they were members of jag and both actually gave their screen names since they didn't know they weren't supposed to be members in the first place. one was on jag last i heard (about a yr ago) and one is there today for certain.

we also know they lied about the identty of their most prominent poster (john b) since we all know how he outed himself on the non-member board last summer(?). but that's a dead horse i won't beat for now.


now, i don't really care about jag just like i don't care about bigdog. there's nothing there for me (since i know everything *joking*) and i choose not to post on either voluntarily (although jag later banned my old IP for speaking up on that anti semitic issue) and don't read either all that much unless someone points out a funny or useful post (both of which are rare) to me. i just like to keep the facts straight when i can. and i can tell you this..... the rufus who posts (although as you say there is a lot of the real him in rufus).... is quite a different fellow when you meet the real him. that's why i said he was the first person i ever met in this hobby because i am one of the very few who can actually vouch for the real rufus, and i don't think he's the person jag painted that evil picture of.


but thats just my call, you don’t have to abide by it.

[Aristotle]

ozzy --

1) I merely meant to say that I didn't think anyone in JAG management had ever lied to me *personally." (*Of course* all that business about costs was always a little screwy.)

2) I'm quite willing to believe that the person who posts as "rufus moses" is a hell of a guy. I've read enough of his posts over the years to believe that.

My problem isn't with the real him -- it's with what "rufus moses" posts.

(I sometimes let Mephistopheles phone in my posts -- so I know what it's like to be chased by daemons.)

P.S. I once said that the proximate cause of the old JAG's "distemper" -- which ultimately led to its collapse -- was the way we dealt with guy catelli. I still think that. For the same reason, I think there may have been a better solution to JAG's "rufus problem" than turning him out. But it wasn't my call. (It's too bad -- because now he doesnt have access to daily info on all the Episode clones where they don't charge extra for paper towels.)

[Ozzy]

i never paid for paper towels there but, maybe that's just because my CSW (commercial spanish wife) works there. matter of fact the apm and i stopped by and sure enough she was there (waiting for me with open arms) and we celebrated our first anniversary in the palatial 10x10 bridal suite*.

only down side is that there were two very cute FSW's (future spanish wives) there but of course felicia won't allow me the freedom to choose. once again being Ozzy is not all it's cracked up to be.





*.....my felicia always gets the best rooms.

[Thorn]

Originally posted by littleguy
IS or WAS

Nobody any of you ex-Jagsters cares about is there anymore. You're all here. Why do you care so much what goes on over there ???

That's what I really don't get (among So many other things).

hombre,

That's what i was trying to say to Rufus earlier. That shit's from last July and it sounds like it's going on as we speak.


Frankly, I use both.

I only log onto JAG about once a month now, but its still a resource. I still get a good lead now and again from there.

I have a rule about burning resources, as they tend to be finite.

Now, I do log on to UG much more often. When its good, UG has a lot to offer. I do tend to have a good "skimmer" though and rocket past much of this stuff. It doesn't hold much in the way of what I am looking for, viable information.

[Hotpuppy]

Originally posted by RoosterC74
I will start once again with the continued slogan-"NADA". And yes, it will remain my slogan-as per my recent resolution.

It amazes me how much time some people have to waste on the negative aspects of what should be a very enjoyable hobby. I believe the problem occurs when it becomes all they have in life-and then it becomes the most important thing and in fact at times-the only thing in life to them. I guess they will continue to see the cup as half empty-instead of half filled. Pretty sorry state of life!

This is very thinly veiled "NADA" , but nice try anyway
hp

[Geezy Muldoon]

Originally posted by justlooking
Because UG will never be as good as JAG was.

JL:

Is that to say that you will never be as good on UG as you were on JAG?

[Geezy Muldoon]

Originally posted by Aristotle
. rufus's JAG -- parts of which can be seen in the JAG Archives -- was primarily a small group of low-rent whorehounds and flat-out perverts who traded stray bits of information in an obsessive quest for the cheapest possible wet place to put a penis. (In that, it bears a passing resemblance to littleguy and Bill Furniture's JAG.)

But it bore virtually *no* resemblance to the JAG where Mr Pitiful, slinkybender, hot4chicks, mack, tuanjim_99, guy catelli, JohnB, Zuggie, johnfrancis, hobbymaster, frog, speigal and even viagra vic posted hundreds of thousands of interesting words in the late 1990s.

(Entirely accurate statements of fact. I read absolutely every word in JAG's archives during the time I was a member. The private members' discussion threads were laid over the earlier random reviews like a completely different geological strata. There was nothing that even hinted at a learned discussion of the whys and wherefores of commercial sex until the later discussion threads.)

[hombre]

Originally posted by Aristotle
1) I merely meant to say that I didn't think anyone in JAG management had ever lied to me *personally." (*Of course* all that business about costs was always a little screwy.)

2) I'm quite willing to believe that the person who posts as "rufus moses" is a hell of a guy. I've read enough of his posts over the years to believe that.

My problem isn't with the real him -- it's with what "rufus moses" posts.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

(I sometimes let Mephistopheles phone in my posts -- so I know what it's like to be chased by daemons.)

Ari, I suspect that you administer your daemons as handily (cronically) as any other system lord.

[littleguy]

While I have no personal information about JAG, who runs it and/or what it costs to run, I can tell you (and I am in the industry, although not directly Internet connected) that if you've never had any reason to learn about or otherwise know what "computer services" (to cover the entire spectrum) costs in general, you'd really shit your pants.

Frankly, in the beginning I never understood how JAG could possibly have survived giving memberships to men who submitted 2 reviews and only asked for occassional "donations"

I'm betting Allen or Slinky can confirm or deny.

[Ozzy]

LG.. no one is saying it's cheap.... just not what they claimed. for example UG which has way more traffic, has an ad section with pictures and flashing banners etc..... probably uses far more bandwidth than jag and i'm willing to bet that UG doesn't cost in the ball park jag was claiming.

[Rufus Moses]

This is a response to Littleguy (who wonders how something like JAG can break even) and Judge Crater (who opines that the early JAG was indeed quite different (and by implication worse) than later JAG.

Here is something simple that explains much of the above and tends to be forgotten...

The early phase JAG was oriented towards *reviews only* and was funded by using the numerous *free hosting* services available at the time.

The first implication being that if one judges a board by the quality of the discussion that takes place one would of course find early JAG disappointing...there was no intent or even mechanism to be a discussion board. However the quality of the reviews was as good, or better, than anything you will find today. We actually acted as *editors*. We would send reviews back for rewrites with suggestions for extra info and the like. Useless reviews, such as those that provide no contact info whatsoever, were prevented.

The second implication was that there were limits to growth under the old JAG. Which, I think, time has proven to have been a good thing. Because small means you can have some degree of trust among fellow posters, and it is actually possible to police the membership to keep out supply-side influence and readership.

The turning point came when the current MC decided (1) bigger is better (2) to add a discussion area (3) to pay for the web hosting. With all of this in place it became impossible to keep the supply-side out and way too tempting to find financial advantages to recover part of the cost.

The irony is if MC had just been up front about this I, and I think many others, might have been disappointed, but at least not enraged by what later became unfair treatment.

As is the case so often, it wasn't the initial act so much as the cover-up that generates the heat.

[Rufus Moses]

Aristotle posts more sophistry (how ironic!) including ...

first -

"So far as I know, I have never been lied to by anyone connected with the management of JAG."

but then -

"I merely meant to say that I didn't think anyone in JAG management had ever lied to me *personally*."

Ari of course completely ignores the deceits that are the focused concern of this thread.

* That MC under the mask of John B has shilled for Julies on JAG.
* That MC had financial interest in Julies at one time
* That MC hosts Julies site now and JAG is thus further supply-side entangled
* That MC has given providers access to JAG
* That MC has extended the blockage of those banned from JAG to also be
banned from Julies

JAG does all of this while posing as a sort of Consumer Reports for Johns...and promising no supply-side participation, membership, shilling, etc....that is the big lie...

So of course you weren't lied to *personally* Ari...you were lied to with the rest of us...MC has too many lies to tell to allow for the personal touch...

Your continued personalization of this with comments about me is not important or interesting...

It is the above specific bullet points, of concern to any current or would be member of JAG, I wish you would address...especially given your implied "personal" relationship with the operators of JAG...


(edits made to correct typos...)

[Rufus Moses]

2 footnotes to Ari's above smoke-fest...

(1) I have always denied making any threats, any violence, or there being any police activity regarding interactions with the old MC#3.
MC#3 had significant mental health issues, or at least that is the most charitable interpretation I can place on his behavior. Perhaps these are stories he told the current JAG...he was, frankly, paranoid in the true sense of the term (as best as I can tell).

But that stuff simply never happened, and whenever it has been brought up I've always tried to respond with a correction or a retelling of the the story of the 4 MC's...I told that story so much, in fact, that it became something of a joke in some parts...

(2) If you can't provide any evidence that I abused my post as JAG MC#2 by trying to get freebies and the like...and of course you can't because I never did...perhaps you should have the courage to say so...

People wonder why I keep posting about this. It is to prevent the case where a lie is told so many times people start to believe it is true.



(edits made to correct typos)

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by Judge Crater


JL:

Is that to say that you will never be as good on UG as you were on JAG?


none of us will JC...... and for the obvious two reasons.


1) provider/public access

2) amount of members (too many members, ruin the mix)

[Slinky Bender]

You mean I'm not as funny as I used to be ? It's all downhill after 40......:(

[Ozzy]

NO, it's just that a higher % of guys understood your jokes on jag then on UG. you have to admit..... with the added membership here, the idiot level rises considerably compared to jag's old days.

(i'm not pointing any fingers at anyone in particular)

[Geezy Muldoon]

Ozzy:

I agree that discussions concerning particular women may sometimes be hampered because some posters do not feel themselves at liberty to be as forthcoming about their impressions and leave out certain details.

But that is, I think, a fairly infrequent occurrence, and there is still a fair mix of pretty straight forward rude talk. (Well, not as rude as I can be on a good day, but fairly rude.)

The fact that anybody can chime in I don't see as a disadvantage. It's what the internet is about.

[Ozzy]

back in the day on jag...when you said something there, it stayed there. it didn't get repeated back to you by a prostitute a few days later.

(especially when she didn't have jag access)


today, too many guys are looking to score points or looking for discounts or for that matter have aspirations of being a pimp..... so they run straight to a girl and blab everything they've read. there's a different breed of man in jag now.


(again....i'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular)

[candie]

Sven,

Please leave me alone. I am not appreciating your emails. Your blocked!

[RoosterC74]

1. Candie-best of luck with it/him/or her.

2. HotPuppy-thanks for the positive statement. As you can see I am trying.

3. As for the other guy-NADA. H.P.-Wink! Wink!

[littleguy]

HP,

(grin)

[mpin]

What is jag?

[Slinky Bender]

A TV show.

[Ozzy]

there's some good ones out there people.....


Julies Anal Gangbang.

[SkellyChamp]

a car

Judge Advocate General (see TV show above)

[Rufus Moses]

Aristotle, following the Nazi dictum that a lie told over and over again may begin to sound like the truth, has continued to slander me very recently on JAG. A significant number of UG members will know exactly what I am talking about.

Most know Aristotle is in bed with JAG management, and has architected the public posting of previously private JAG posts (current "private" posters take note...you may be next...)... and that alone should make him suspect.

The fact that he is now slandering me in a forum where he knows I can't defend myself (because I am one of the banned "lifetime members") makes it all the more despicable.

Aristotle have you no shame? Have you no pride?

As I've said before...offer some proof RIGHT HERE...

I know you can't...because it is all just lies...

you pathetic coward...

[Ozzy]

rufus....


i know this sounds ironic coming from *me* of all people but calm down. take a walk over to episodes and test drive something new or visit my CDW (commercial dominican wife..."felicia"). i had plenty of lies posted about me over there (not by Ari), everything from being Aprils partner to being a driver for her agency.... and i let it all slide until tank crossed the line and posted my name. now i haven't read it since i don't have jag access here where i am, but relax. if it's only the same shit as before than who cares? it's old news that you've already reposted here and voiced you side of the story. they only do it because they know it bothers you (and i). most of the guys on JAG now aren't concerned with the truth and would rather be gossip mongers than useful, informative posters. besides Ari, there's no one there who can start an interesting topic and even with Ari, there's no one there who can add to the topic. as i said.... don't let it bother you too much because anyone here probably hasn't or can't read about it anyway.

[Rufus Moses]

The accusation he is making is really disgusting though...MUCH worse than anything you mention here...I think it's about the worst thing you could accuse someone of...

In any case, a low percentage of UG folks may be on JAG, but I am sure a high percentage of JAG folks also read UG...I hope they see this for what it is...

[reflection]

Somewhat irrelevant question from an irregular lurker on both jag, ug and ter:

What's the status of "the erotic review" in all of this? Is that generally considered a 'neutral' review forum or is that also run by someone with a bias?

Just curious.

[Rufus Moses]

Check out this current thread...

http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=7136&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

[Rufus Moses]

So now Aristotle is trying to insult me on JAG with comments about the size and health of my penis...how embarrassingly desperate...

He then follows up with most likely fake posts from "other" JAG members ...(a post from "Covetous" followed by a post from "Gluttony"...the 7 deadly sins Aristotle?...puhlease...)

It is so pathetic I actually feel sorry for him.

Thanks to those on JAG pointing out there how unfair it is to attack people where they can't defend themselves.

I hope this further makes it clear to all that Aristotle will do or say just about anything to "win" this battle he imagines himself to be in.

[Rufus Moses]

...post removed because the post it was responding to disappeared...

[Stecchino]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rufus Moses
So now Aristotle is trying to insult me on JAG

I'm a bit confused. I've now read a couple of posts which state Aristotle is "in bed" with JAG, and other things to that effect. I remember him being none-too-complimentary towards Julie and her house a while back, so assuming the JAG=Julies stuff is true, how did it come to be that he, of all people, is now part of JAG? (this stuff really is like a soap opera)

[Ozzy]

i made a promise that i wouldn't get involved in this jag crap anymore but lets get one thing straight....


while i personally never said, nor do i believe ari is "in bed" with jag... there is one thing for certain.... Aristotle is no longer posting on UG and is now posting up a storm on jag. i also can assure you that ari won't be walking thru julies door anytime soon. now.. having said that, i don't believe he is jag staff nor does he have any SYSOP powers over there. what he has done is.... he's re-incarnated several old threads, taken to making “virtual mr pitiful” posts (re-posting old mr P threads) and passed along some idea's to jag staff which they are most certainly entertaining. does that mean he's "in bed" with them.... certainly not. but is he in some way a consultant for them now... it apparently looks that way. i have no beef with ari, i consider him a friend and wish him the best in his endeavors. i spent the better part of 3 years conversing with him privately (and still do) and I learned a lot. if he helps to resurrect jag from where it is now back to it's former glory (or close to it)... than more power to him. if he accomplishes that (if that’s what he’s doing) than maybe you and some others who are starting this shit will take in all that (that) jag can offer you and stop harassing other boards (namely UG). frankly i don't think he nor jag will succeed simply because by tossing you trouble makers free memberships (as jag is apparently doing) they basically condone what you do elsewhere. at UG slinky and allen have little choice in who posts here since it is a free and public board, and every time they ban one of you, you just come back under a new name. jag doesn't have that misfortune since they had out membership to the private site.... and for every day they continue to grant you trouble makers access, it cheapens that board. I’ve heard all about jag banning people in the past and how they don’t want to get into that again… well they banned the guy they shouldn’t have and want back the most (they want him back so bad that they’ve taken reposting his 3 year old posts in order to spark discussion over there), yet they welcome someone like tank commander in who adds nothing but trouble to any board he’s apart of. they also allow people like mopar to spew his rhetoric and baseless accusations about anything that remotely involves UG, slinky, april and ozzy. even his own fellow members request that he shut his yap occasionally. there are some sensible guys there who know he and others are not helping the situation.... especially when people like myself and others are watching and waiting for them to make bone head mistakes that are totally reprehensible (like tanks posting of personal info). They talk about all the fights on UG… but then they invite in (for free) the two or three people most responsible for a majority of those fights. Well there’s my jag rant for today. Anyone with access and a good eye can read it for themselves and see whats going on.

[Rufus Moses]

The point isn't "Aristotle is now in bed with JAG"...he has *always* been in bed with JAG...for example they have cooperated in the past with battles against ***...

I'd like to just wipe the slate clean of all of this nonsense...I mean in the end it doesn't amount to a damn thing...

But JAG continues even today to extend its hypocrisy...for example they cross-post what were given as reviews for the private board on the public board (and not just old old posts...some are only a few weeks old)...

And Aristotle has taken to mentioning on JAG all manner of details others told him on other truly private boards...

So even today they actively disrespect the confidences of others....

How can this not be obvious at this point?

[Hotpuppy]

Originally posted by Rufus Moses
I'd like to just wipe the slate clean of all of this nonsense...I mean in the end it doesn't amount to a damn thing...

But JAG continues even today to extend its hypocrisy...
................................................................................................
................................................................................................
................................................................................................
................................................................................................
................................................................................................
RM, I dont think it will ever end for you, and for that I am sorry.
take care
HP

[Rufus Moses]

Well it's not going to end as long as Aristotle keeps accusing me of being a pedophile on JAG and elsewhere.

Because to not deny it is to invite an accusation that no denial proves the point...which Aristotle has also trotted out as an argument in the past.

Anyway, and not that it is anyones business, the youngest woman I've ever had sex with was 18. I was 17 at the time.

Aristotle can keep repeating the big lie like some kind of Nazi propagandist if he wants to. His total lack of even, when asked, an explanation of how he could possibly know such a thing, much less any actual evidence, I hope informs any critical readers here and over on JAG.

[mydesign]

Originally posted by Rufus Moses
Well it's not going to end as long as Aristotle keeps accusing me of being a pedophile on JAG and elsewhere.


You like feet?

[pjorourke]

I'm confused Rufus. Are you saying that you are not a pedophile anymore?

[Rufus Moses]

as in "when did you stop beating your wife?" I assume...

[pjorourke]

Originally posted by Rufus Moses
as in "when did you stop beating your wife?" I assume...

Of course!

[Flounder]

Originally posted by Rufus Moses


Aristotle can keep repeating the big lie like some kind of Nazi propagandist if he wants to.

So now there's something wrong with nazi propagandists?

[Rufus Moses]

I hold Aristotle personally responsible for the JAG post of August 13,
2002 - 10:48 pm under a pseudonym. If the post isn't his it is nevertheless inspired by his previous posts. But it seems to be directly his.

I've said I won't tolerate these charges...maybe some think pedophilia is a good joke, but I don't. It is a terrible (NOT victimless) crime, and worse, an act of perverse violence against the most innocent among us. And it can result in a lifetime of pain.

For those tired of this (and I include myself with you), here are some new ideas...

One has to wonder how a smart guy like Aristotle has been lead so far astray. Is he really an unrepentant liar of the worst kind? Even I, the target of his very loud whisper campaign, have to question that.

I am tempted to posit a puppetmaster.

MC has tried to frame me before...he made charges about death threats and having to call the cops....none of which was true. None of which anyone else had heard of before he mentioned it (i.e. made it up) or could back up. Because they were lies. Perhaps in the current case Aristotle has been fed similar lies by his "friend" MadChaos. And perhaps this isn't the first time he has been so used.

Clearly the real motive here is to deflect attention from the subject of this thread by shifting the discussion to a totally different and bogus charge. I've already said the moment is over, the word is out, and I am now happy to ignore JAG corruption...let the buyer beware and all that...

But I can't ignore charges of pedophilia...because propagandists and witchhunters consider being ignored a confession and invitation ... I will take any mention of this kind as a serious serious charge of wrong doing ... one which has to be answered as the big lie it is.

And if this forum doesn't provide relief, I will find one that does...

[justme]

UG is all about finding relief.

(I shouldn't make light. It's a serious topic, and it really puzzles me that such an intelligent poster like Aristotle would see fit to attempt to discredit Rufus with such a nasty, vile rumor.)

[Monk]

How many useful reviews or tips on providers have any of you picked up from JAG in, say, the past two years?

…


I rest my case.

[oddfellow4870]

Not sure I want to dive into this mess, but here goes.....

I am a JAG member and became a member here in the past 6 weeks.

I am not on the inside at JAG and am held in no more than medium esteem, because I tend to elevate the status of service providers above the norm over there. I'm also not quite the intellectual that predominates at JAG.

But to correct one thing Rufus said, Ari did not propogate the idea of Classic Jag. It was at my suggestion and several others. Despite the static, there is a lot of archived wisdom at Jag as I'm sure there is here and a lot of seasoned, intelligent Johns who have really nailed a lot of the issues newbies face. I'm sure that is also true here.

The idea of rivalry between the two boards seems a bit immature to me. And both boards just have a slightly different take on things. To me, that's a good thing.

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by oddfellow4870
there is a lot of archived wisdom at Jag as I'm sure there is here and a lot of seasoned, intelligent Johns who have really nailed a lot of the issues newbies face. I'm sure that is also true here.

The idea of rivalry between the two boards seems a bit immature to me. And both boards just have a slightly different take on things. To me, that's a good thing.

i couldn't agree with you more.

but on the topic of "classic jag"... my major beef with "classic jag" is that i don't think it should have been placed on the non-member (public) board. there was a time when jags non-member board wouldn't get a single post for weeks sometimes, that i used to wonder why they even had one (a public board). i think building up that non-member board and drawing attention to jag is a mistake. i know they did it to attract new members and to sell more memberships to "private jag". but jag doesn't need all those new members. jag doesn't need 5000 members like a board like UG does to survive, because it draws too much added attention to jag.... and attention is what ruined it in the first place. providers found out about it and then tried to infiltrate it and that is one of the problems. they also started requesting that their clients (shills) post reviews there. also.. with more members brings more of a chance that bad elements will find their way in (like these shills).

when jag was a secret and unknown to most it was at it's best. it was an UTR board and it works best when it stays UTR. jag only needs a solid core membership that everyone knows and trusts. that's the problem with TER... there's so many guys there who post fake reviews and under so many different and unknown names that you don't know who's review to trust. with jag you knew who was who and you knew who's reviews to trust. when it was in it's prime jag had maybe 20 or 30 everyday posters at the most.. (and probably a couple of hundred lurkers). of course that limits the number of woman that will be reviewed... but it raises the % of accurate reviews as well. so you have to give a little to gain a lot (of confidence).


maybe i should post this or part of it back on jag.

[oddfellow4870]

Ozzy,

The only way JAG could have stayed the way it was would be to keep it as a private club that is funded through heavy donations by its elite. As soon as they tried to make it more of a real business, the rest followed naturally. No way around it.

And once you know which reviewers to trust, you can still get good information. But you not only have to know the reviewers, but their biases and wants as well.


Monk,

I got a lot from JAG. I was so green and self delusional about the hobby when I started. JAG helped me get my head straight, mostly through the meaty discussions there. The reviews have been helpful, but less so.

[JohnnyK]

Ozzy,

I agree with your view to a point. After having been a JAG member for a little over a year (I happened to join just at what call "The Exodus"), it tends to get a little stale sometimes with the same characters. Yes I think small is better, BUT there needs to be a controlled rotation to fumigate the place every now and then. Was CJ the best solution? Probably not, but the membership was throwing alot of stuff at the wall at that time to see what stuck. THere hasnt been a new CJ thread in at least a month as well. No matter what JAG does (except, I believe with the exception of more non-NYC reviews), it wont become as large as UG or TER.

[JohnnyK]

Hey Flounder!!

I know my "status" is labeled, but that was my 100th post- How 'bout welcoming me anyway.

[Ozzy]

JK/oddfellow....

"controlled" is the key word. "limited" is another word that i would use. i think jag membership after a certain point should have been closed and then opened briefly to allow some fresh blood in every now and then... would that be fair to those who couldn't get in.... of course not, but how much in this world is fair? that's the way it is at most private clubs (and jag was a private club).

and CJ isn't such a bad idea, it was only putting what was once thought of to be confidential on a private board that i thought was a bad idea.

also.. the part about the "heavy donations" was a major topic of controversy back then and it will remain one. jag (like UG) doesn't require a large amount of money to operate. slinky isn't in this to make money (he makes that doing his real job). and as rufus and many others have explained already (a great analogy is in bagger vances (http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=62554#post62554) post).. jag wasn't created to be a money making entity. i was done for very unselfish reasons and as a consumer reports type site.

[JohnnyK]

Well,
If it was never open you wouldn't have the pleasure of my humor.
(If I knew how, I would place the eye rolling emoticon here)

[SkellyChamp]

Not having been a member of JAG for 2 years this month or having visited. What exactly is "Classic JAG"? If it is what I think it sounds like, it might make me happy that I retired my old handle when UG began because as Ozzy pointed out most of what was written on JAG was with the thought of confidentiality. Undersatnding of course how stupid that is given the possbilities of the Internet.

[justlooking]

They repost notable old JAG threads (you can guess the ones) on the public board. In an attempt to preserve confidentiality, the names of the posters, and of any specific service providers mentioned in the posts, are changed. (At least they're usually changed -- there've been inevitable slip-ups.) OTOH, details aren't hidden, so if something was written that's particularly revealing, it's out there in public, even if under a different handle or with a different service provider's name.

[Flounder]

Originally posted by JohnnyK
Hey Flounder!!

I know my "status" is labeled, but that was my 100th post- How 'bout welcoming me anyway.

JohnnyK, welcome to um, er, Fall Staff!

[SkellyChamp]

Thanks JL. Mr. P lives forever. I assume a lot of the contoversial too. Through the power of the internet we can have Oz/JC v. VV/TJ

[Ozzy]

actually no contraversal threads..


"wooing your provider" and "gods and monsters" among the CJ's revived. there's a few inside private jag as well. no "janelle" threads as of yet. although.. if you were gone 2 years, you wouldn't have seen that thread... huh SC? (dec 2000)


note: my post above should have read public jag... as where they were originally placed.

[oddfellow4870]

This may be disputed by some, but Mr. P is really the reason for classic JAG.

Not that he asked for it. He's not there any more of course. But I was creating links to all the discussions that were meaningful to me. A few other Jaggies were also doing this. When we began to list what we felt were the classic threads, he was there... constantly.

My suggestion was for a special area inside that would be an orientation for newbies. Management decided it was best to use it to attract new members. I'm not sure how long it will last in that format.

I don't know if the software that runs this board would allow for clipping great threads and transporting them, but a lot of thought goes into a lot of posts. And preserving them is of value to new members especially.

[SkellyChamp]

Oz - I suppose my dates could be off. I was definitely there for the J "debate". i don't even check JAG anymore. What was the beginning date of the J thread.

[Ozzy]

oh... i don't think anyone will dispute that at all. but you fogot to mention "virtual Mr Pitiful" over on jag as well.


(you do know the original Mr P is actually here.... right? i mean... we wouldn't want him to think he's been martyred before his time, he'd hate that since he's so damn humble)

[Ozzy]

SC... the first "J" thread and reviews were late Nov/early Dec.... THE "J" thread was in mid to late Dec 2000. by early january 2001 is was pretty much a dead topic. the whole thing only lasted about a month.

[oddfellow4870]

Ozzy,

Really? Does he post much any more? I was one who felt that the J thread was not the primary reason he departed. I thought he had covered the topic so well that there wasn't a lot more to say.

Plus, he was always such a gentle soul that all the hub-ub didn't really fit his style.

When I think of P, I amlost picture him as an Irish priest in one of those Bells of St.Mary movies. Different kind of church of course........

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by oddfellow4870
Ozzy,

Really? Does he post much any more?


it's not really a secret who he is here, and you might say he posts occasionally.


" I was one who felt that the J thread was not the primary reason he departed. I thought he had covered the topic so well that there wasn't a lot more to say"


not at all why he left. matter of fact i think he left (voluntarily???) almost a year after the J thing.


"Plus, he was always such a gentle soul that all the hub-ub didn't really fit his style"


bwahahahahaha!


"When I think of P, I almost picture him as an Irish priest in one of those Bells of St.Mary movies. Different kind of church of course........ "


oh, i had a great line..... but i won't go there. btw... priests like little boys, i don't think they're P's type.



(too bad benders not around.... he'd have fun with this post, hell he might have said something funny for once)

[justlooking]

I think you're confusing him with Pat McGroin (who, come to think of it, actually went to someplace called St. Mary's).

[pswope]

I know this will piss people off but:


Pitiful is a dead ringer for Ben Affleck at 40;and

JL is a dead ringer for Mason Reese.





( I, otoh, look like a white Manute Bol)

[robnotbob]

Originally posted by pswope
[





( I, otoh, look like a white Manute Bol) [/B]


Ok , we agree on something.....

[pswope]

Yeah but I can dunk with my feet on the ground.

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by pswope
Yeah but I can dunk with my feet on the ground.

but only while in the doggie.

[justme]

Mr. Pitiful is Classic JAG.

(And I don't mean that section)

[robnotbob]

Originally posted by Ozzy


but only while in the doggie.

I'm the LAST guy in the world that should be commenting on height.

rnb....vertically challenged

[Ozzy]

OK......


i've given this a full week and have yet to receive a response from anyone.


so could one of you (quasi) jag staff members (hombre, johnny k)who read UG tell me what "VV" did this time to get banned from jag?



ps... all i did was post a picture of candide (the provider accused of being jag staff)

[RoosterC74]

Ozzy,

This may indeed appear very strange coming from me, however, I could not see anything that I read on the JAG Members Board that would have caused Viagra Vic from being booted. Actually, I sort of enjoyed several of the things that VV had been posting on that Board. Some of the pictures were quite good.

Oh-and by the way-just to make everything perfectly clear (Tricky Dickie Nixon-ha! ha! ha!)-I am not a so-called Quasi JAG Staff Member-ok?

[littleguy]

I asked why VV was no longer able to log ing.

No answer poster (yet ?) (But it IS a holiday weekend after all)

[JohnnyK]

Originally posted by Ozzy

so could one of you (quasi) jag staff members (hombre, johnny k)who read UG tell me what "VV" did this time to get banned from jag?



ps... all i did was post a picture of candide (the provider accused of being jag staff)

My quasi-staff powers are rather limited. (I have had only limited contact and it's been all business so to speak.) There hasnt been any offical statement or anything. MM even seems to be MIA lately perhaps he is on vacation or a long weekend? Have you tried e*mailing him? The only thing I could see that could have got you into trouble was the posting of Candide's pic (hell, I even think mopar baited you and you turned the cheek), and even still if he got touchy over it he should have warned you first. Maybe its just a stupid glitch? (although I havent heard anyone having trouble, but I am a computer illiterate.)

[Ozzy]

i e*mailed jag staff last monday or tuesday and haven't received a response..... nor from my buddy ari (but i think he's away).

[littleguy]

SC,

You're correct. "J" threads were very late December in 2000 making them about a year and 8 months old.

[Flounder]

I didn't see Candide's pic. I don't look at JAG everyday, so it must have been removed when I looked.:(

[Socketome]

sniff.................. sniff.........................

gunpowder ?

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by Flounder
I didn't see Candide's pic. I don't look at JAG everyday, so it must have been removed when I looked.:(



thats not good.

[hombre]

I asked about the whole thing -- rather loudly, I'm afraid -- and the official response is that VV isn't banned.

[Flounder]

well then, they have to address his inability to post.

[The Ghost of JAG]

You know, if you listen to the "official reports", it seems like no one has ever been banned in the history of JAG, except for Rufus Moses.

[Ozzy]

By MadMach on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 09:26 am:

JAG Mgmt welcomes free-spirited discussion, but we do not look kindly on the intentional harming of another human being.

Most of you know that Candi Day is no longer in the business. She's gone on to a respectable job and JAG Mgmt is happy for her.

Candi learned that her picture had been posted soon after the fact. (A JAG member called her or *****ed her about it.) She then wrote us and asked that the picture be taken down immediately as it threatened her new life.

We agreed to do this as it seemed the right thing to do.

Opinions obviously differ about why Viagra Vic chose to post her picture. VV and Candi have a long history of conflict on this and other boards. We are in no position to judge how real their apparent bad feelings about each other may be. Maybe Viagra Vic wanted to make a joke. Maybe he we wanted to scare her. Maybe he wanted someone who knows her in her new life to see the picture he posted. We don't know what he intended. But it seems to us more likely than not that he meant inflict pain on her.

When it was suggested that we invite VV to start posting on JAG we agreed because we were assured VV would be on his best behavior. Our view is that his decision to post Candi's picture was grossly irresponsible. It is NEVER appropriate to make posts that threaten people in their real lives. We won't permit that.

One final note: Candi is NOT LeBeguine.

MadMach



Hombre.... jag is lying to you (like they always do). i'll foward you my password if you would like and try it yourself. maybe MM should check in with his other moderator to see who pulled my plug... i know for a fact candide is staff, i've know for a while she had controls (i've seen her edit her posts on the non member board) i accused her before, and this one proves it. they'll take down candide's picture but not those posts which janelle (and some other jag members) actually believed put her in harms way. thats total bull shit and you know it. i put up april's, shauna,s taylors and buffys picture along with candide's... does that mean i'm threatening their lives too. i don't like being painted as a stalker or someone who's out to get candi. she a pathetic paranoid and those are her words coming from MM..... hmmmm maybe she's MM? my password is off and candide did it... because she an irrational psychotic bitch. didn't you read the crap she posted her in her last appearance?


funny... but tank did worse than what MM accused me of by posting real names... that was left up for over a week and tank didn't get the boot.

and if i my access wasn't cut than how come i complained about it (i sent ******s to jag and aristotle) days before the picture came down.


and no ones ever been banned from jag.. yeah.... i'm lying, P's lying, slinky's lying, H4Cs is lying.... funny but people who claimed to have their IP's banned (mine wasn't... just my access) from jag also couldn't log into julie for a while (until their IP's changed).

[Flounder]

Thanks for sharing the letter.

hombre?

[Ozzy]

BTW....


whats the title of the thread i posted my pictures in.....?



"post provider pictures here"


that thread (two of them it's so large) is full of past and current providers.


and i posted April's picture (the same one on her samantha website) before that site even went public so technically she wasn't an active provider (yet) either. i posted it exactly like candide's (with NO NAME) and both just said "guess who"... .... but i'm sure there's a spin about how THATS different than candide.....huh?


and just so everyone knows... that's a picture of candide that SHE used to ****** to anyone.... no different than what mandie does now for example..... and those same pics of mandie (lots of them) are posted on jag in the same threads as candi's.....

you know...

i read the rules at jag... and i don't seem to remember seeing anything that says that candide gets any different treatment than anyone else. maybe they should add that one