Rev of Ms. XXX or 24 hours in the Twilight Zone?

[Phantom]

I very recently spent 24 hours with a provider, who for the time being, I'll call Sara, which is not her real or working name. You all are familiar with the girl I saw, but I would like your thoughts and opinions based upon the facts. I do not want the name you all know her by to influence your thoughts and opinions. I will eventually reveal her real working name. For those of you who might know or guess who I'm talking about, please do not reveal her name.

And please spare me the sermons of seeing someone the first time for an extended hours date. Every single provider who I've seen for the first time for extended hours have been great experiences.

My story.

I first contacted Sara maybe about two months ago asking if she had any interest in spending a day with me at my NJ shore house. Sara got back to me very quickly expressing interest. A date was scheduled and a fee was agreed upon, $2K for 24 hours.

I picked Sara up at her place Sunday morning around 11am. We talked during our ride to my house. Upon arriving Sara told me she would love to lay out a while and catch some sun. I really didn't have a problem with this since I had planned to just sit out on the deck with her having some drinks and just getting to know each other.

I was told by other guys who had seen her that being a gentleman was a definite way to boost your mileage with her. Never missed an opportunity to hold a door, light her cigarette, get her a drink. I even cooked dishes she told me she liked.

After having dinner we laid down on the bed to watch a movie. After the movie finished she asked me if it was possible for me to give her a back rub. I'll never pass up an opportunity to give an attractive naked woman a back rub with warm massage oil. The back rub eventually turned into a front rub from the waist up. After about a hour she thanked me and went to jump in the shower. Up to this point in time everything was going along very nicely.

She must have been aware that after returning from he shower that I was interested in moving onto other more intimate acts. She returns from her shower fully clothed. Every time I tried to initiate intimate acts she jumps up and says she has something she has to do. Several times she jumps up saying that she wants to wash the dishes I used to cook dinner with even after telling her that I would do them the next morning. I say several times because after returning each time she said that there was no more hot water and wanted to wait 20 minutes or so for it to get hot again before she finished the dishes.

So finally after all this stalling on her part I eventually get her focused on doing something for me. She begins to give me a halfhearted BJ which lasted all of 20 minutes, half of which was actually a hand job. After 20 minutes she announces that she is tired and lies down. She makes no further attempts at any intimate activity

Needless to say no way in hell am I going to force her to do anything. She knows why she is there yet for some reason she has decided not to do anything for her fee. Trying not to aggravate an already bad situation, I roll over and go to sleep. Occasionally I woke up during the night to find the TV still on and her watching.

Wake up Monday morning cleanup and leave. Quiet, very cold drive home. I drive her home, where she gives me a kiss on the check and tells me that she is sorry that things did not work out the way I had planned.

So guys, what would you have done placed in this situation?

Ladies, your thoughts and opinions as to why she did what she did.

[Slinky Bender]

Once you are in the situation, there is not an awful lot you can do. The only thing I can think that I would have done is that as soon as I realized that it was "going nowhere", I might have said "You know, this really isn't working for me. Why don't I drive you home now and we can work something out on the fee".

[Hotpuppy]

Just as someone is going to give you the "sermon" whether you like it or not( not me though), I feel compelled to make one remark ( and it goes against everything I believe in regards to how I relate to escorts)- maybe being the "gentleman" that you are( and Im not suggesting in the least that you be something that you are not, or in any way abuse her) was not the way to go in this situation. Now before anyone goes crazy, please read this carefully: I am not suggesting that Phantom change his style or do anything that would frighten or bully the lady. OK. But assuming less of the server and more of the servee role may have turned a wasted day around some. I also agree with SB's common sense reply.
take care HP

[RoosterC74]

Phantom,
This is a classic story of being ripped off. I have never spent that kind of money on any provider-especially for only a 24 hour period. I would have to agree with Slinkybender that when you witnessed it was not going very well-perhaps a statement such as: "It appears that things are not going to go the way that I would have liked them to go, and I would like to take you home immediately. Additionally, we will need to discuss the fee for your services since the time was cut short and your services proved to be less then satisfactory to me."

[Edited by RoosterC74 on 07-23-2001 at 03:43 PM]

[nycguy1967]

I agree with Slinky and Rooster. . .

Although in a long date there is certainly "down time" that is well spent in the manner that you did (dinner, sunning, drinks, movie) there is an expectation of particular activities - We don't go to Julie's or JB's or visit with any provider solely for good conversation.

This lady tacitly agreed to provide a particular service and did not, you are entitled to satisfaction. Handled in the right way (as suggestedby the others) everyone walks away closer to happy than not, and there is hope for the next time.

I trust you at least had a nice dinner and enjoyed the movie!!

[candie]

Most ladies would negotiate the fee. I had a client once that was first time meet, though we had a great dinner and I felt it was gonna be a great overnight.. he was very intelligent etc but once in the bed... well let me just say that it didnt work out. I rose and dressed and negotiated the fee and left. This does happen.

You also shouldnt be working a full weeks worth of men and then go and do an overnight... thats not right for him.

I also have no clue who this lady is nor do i know phantom except for here.

I hope this helps.
candie N Mlps
xx

ps- I have never met a provider that didnt know what was the main event! mult O's

[Edited by candie on 07-23-2001 at 03:57 PM]

[MJC185]

Hey Phantom,

Question: Did you attempt to speak with her about why she might have acted in such a quirky way?

Maybe, for some reason, she was made uncomfortable by you/ the situation.

It was your money, and a lot of it to boot (for a small-timer like me). I think your best bet might have been to try to discuss the way things were going and why. YOu might have been able to find out a) what was wrong (if indeed it was something you had control over) and b0 what could have turned things around.

I understand your frustration, because as you said, she knows why she is there...but it is ultimately your money and up to you to make sure you get the best out of it you can.

Just my thoughts (you asked for us to skip the sermons, or else I would have had a bit more to say ;) )

MJC

[Luciano]

Phantom I am just sorry that happened to you. I can imagine what that must be like. I would write a review; if someone gives you lumps well you had courage and did what you felt you had to do.

[Humble Narrator]

You picked her up at 11 a.m., drove to the shore and then...it's dinner time? The only thing you mentioned re: events in the intervening time is "laying out". Even if you took three hours to get to your place, that still leaves a long time between then and dinner. Or on the other hand, if dinner was early, that leaves a VERY long time for play during the remainder of the evening.

At what point did you expect to receive any service? I think if I were in this situation, there would have been some initial service either in the car on the way (yes, adolescent behavior, but why not?) or shortly after the arrival, just to warm up. If this was not forthcoming, I think I would have packed it in right then. This in no way precludes being a "gentleman".

I know we all like things to "just sort-of happen", but sometimes things must be spelled out. In this scenario, sooner might very well have been better.

Just curious: did you actually pay her the 2K? If she was "sorry it didn't work out", did she give a reason?

Frankly, I have to believe there's more to this story.

[HH]

Well, if it's who I'm thinking I have had a similar experience. But the problem was it was 'that time of the month' maybe this is you answer. Either way she should have let you know what the problem was. But you should have asked too!

HH

[Carl M]

To a lesser extent, I was extremely annoyed, emailed the provider 3 days later and she stated she would give me a full refund- which no one does! I opted for a free session with her which was absolutely fantastic!

[Monk]

Face it. You got had.

So, now that you've heard a range of opinions, are you going to tell us who she is? :)

[Hotpuppy]

I think any escort( worth her reputation), who accepts an extended date, has to assume that the "activities" anticipated by the client will be fairly frequent( maybe we should poll on this one), perhaps like the meal metaphor people are fond of using. An extended date may include three or four meals( with appetizer, main course and dessert), and the appropriate cleanups , before meal shower, after dinner dishes :). My experiences with extended dates have gone along these lines, and I never had to "suggest" anything to her.
take care HP( waiting for George W's present in the mail)

[MJC185]

Bottom line is, when it is your 2G's on the line its up to you to find out what can be done to improve the services or seek a financial arrangement.

It's not ENTIRELY the girl's fault for walking away with his money after a sub-par performance, IMO.

MJC
anxious to hear who it was

[Edited by MJC185 on 07-23-2001 at 04:27 PM]

[Lemurrush]

So, MJC, protector-of-all,
if the girl shows up and provides bad service, and the guy isn't "aggressive" enuff to call her on it, all responsibility lies with him? She can just walk away, with no repercussions, completely blameless?
Wow. So, now, not only must we PAY for it, we have to BEG for it too...I need a job like that:
"Yes boss, I realize I received a paycheck this week, but I'm still not going to perform the job you contracted me to do, unless you beg on your hands and knees like a dog."
Of course, the old adage (YMMV - and I hate that) stands, but, c'mon...24 hours, 2k...so he could give her a backrub and watch TV? Cheaper to get a GF...

Lemur

[justme]

Some men show they are gentlemen by making sure doors are openned, chairs are pulled, and smokes are lit. Other men do so by simply making sure a lady never has to fill her own glass.

[JOHNNIE]

had a apointment but backed out after hearing mechanical. feeling about the two dimes down the drain but maybe a bottle of wine before booking is advised.

[MJC185]

Originally posted by Lemurrush
So, MJC, protector-of-all,
if the girl shows up and provides bad service, and the guy isn't "aggressive" enuff to call her on it, all responsibility lies with him? She can just walk away, with no repercussions, completely blameless?
Wow. So, now, not only must we PAY for it, we have to BEG for it too...I need a job like that:
"Yes boss, I realize I received a paycheck this week, but I'm still not going to perform the job you contracted me to do, unless you beg on your hands and knees like a dog."
Of course, the old adage (YMMV - and I hate that) stands, but, c'mon...24 hours, 2k...so he could give her a backrub and watch TV? Cheaper to get a GF...

Lemur

Lemur, you dirty prick...

Just because you'd like your dick in my mouth, don't try to put words in my mouth.

To everyone who doesn't know he was breaking my balls, that is not what I meant by my post. I did not imply that it is a cut and dry case of the girl being blameless, as evidenced by my opinion that some kind of financial arrangement should have been sought out.

MJC

[Edited by MJC185 on 07-23-2001 at 04:36 PM]

[Hotpuppy]

Originally posted by MJC185
Bottom line is, when it is your 2G's on the line its up to you to find out what can be done to improve the services or seek a financial arrangement.



Well then, I guess it comes back around to the request by Phantom, not to be given a sermon about extended dates for first time meetings. Every escort I have ever discussed overnights with has appropriately responded that a two or three hour first date was necessary- to avoid situations like the one Candie described and to assure some sort of compatability that would translate into a successful overnight. Sorry Phantom , but I think this is really central to the issue at hand.
take care HP

[Lemurrush]

Originally posted by MJC185
Bottom line is, when it is your 2G's on the line its up to you to find out what can be done to improve the services or seek a financial arrangement.

It's not the girl's fault for walking away with his money after a sub-par performance, IMO.

MJC
anxious to hear who it was



Yes, good thing I didn't misquote you ;) It almost sounded like you said, it's not her fault for taking his money and running - thanks for setting me straight...
Hell, I think most of our mom's would easily cost less than 2k just to give them a backrub and let them watch TV - on the plus side, we'd probably even get a meal out of it, to boot ;)
Just as long as we don't hold it against them when they let us down, right MJC - cuz that's entirely OUR fault
And, as far as the dick in the mouth thing - I think it's time to REALLY let everyone in on the secret as to what went on at the UG Long Island getogether in the parking lot. Sorry my schedule has been so hectic, I'll try to fill your Lemur quota soon ;)

Lemur

[Edited by Lemurrush on 07-23-2001 at 04:52 PM]

[MJC185]

"Hell, I think most of our mom's would easily cost less than 2k just to give them a backrub and let them watch TV "

Yes indeed, but out of the whole UG population I'd venture to guess that you're the one and only who would want to give a naked backrub to your mother.

MJC

[MrNY]

maybe she was giving you a TRUE GFE ?

you should have been more forward when you saw that it clearer was not going the way you expected - she was aware too - next time (if there is a), ASK ...

next, if it wasn't working - you should have worked something out financially and sent a car for her to be brought home - of course after you've both mutually agreed that it just was not working out

but, most importantly, EVERYONE has an off-day - this might have been hers... You don't know what "just" happened to her before you picked her up. You don't know if she is having personal issues - Ya know, sometimes...........

[Lemurrush]

MJC,
I realize you can only speak for yourself, but, you're right - after hearing the stories you've told me about your adolesence and early adulthood, I DO understand what you're saying...
Why settle for just a backrub, when you can have the whole enchilada!
But, as I've said to you before, there are groups for the kind of abuse you've endured - support and therapeutic...there's no need to cast stones at all mother-son relationships. You CAN recover from this ;)

Lemur

[Geezy Muldoon]

inclination...

[Edited by Judge Crater on 07-25-2001 at 07:29 PM]

[Humble Narrator]

Originally posted by MrNY
maybe she was giving you a TRUE GFE ?

but, most importantly, EVERYONE has an off-day - this might have been hers... You don't know what "just" happened to her before you picked her up. You don't know if she is having personal issues - Ya know, sometimes...........

I don't get it. Sure, people have off days. A girl or guy might need to cancel at the last minute for any number of reasons. No problem. Things happen and we have to adapt. What I don't understand is how one can get to the 2/3 mark of a 24 hour date (assuming only 16-18 hours due to sleep needs) and only then start discovering there is a problem.

One possible scenario is that something was bothering this lady and that she was trying to tough it out because she needs the booking. She tried to take some time to relax and adjust. Maybe she just never got comfortable and basically just bailed in the only way she knew how, by stalling.

Sound reasonable? Maybe. In any case, Phantom has got to either step up and call it what it is, or simply go along and continue the scenario to its illogical conclusion.

[mr. wonderful]

Lemur and MJC are not on the best of terms.

Anyway, I have seen Lemur's mom and have to admit I would thoroughly enjoy giving her a massage. Just as long as the lights were out.

Phantom, sorry for what happened to you. In no way can I imagine how this could have been your fault, other than not speaking up, but I probably would have told her to give me back a grand and to get the fuck out. Oh, and I would have told her to use her "fee" to take a cab back to her place. I hate that shit. No, I have never spent that kind of money on an overnight, but if I did, and she pulled that stunt, I would make sure that EVERYBODY knew about it.

This, I guess, is a chance you take when you see someone for the first time. If this girl had any class at all, after the peck on the cheek and her lame excuse, she at least should have offered you back some of her fee. Sorry, friend.

MW

[Edited by mr. wonderful on 07-23-2001 at 07:02 PM]

[Gooey2k]

I have a feeling we will never find out who it was....

[Phantom]

Wanna put your money where your mouth is?

[Gooey2k]

since you put it that way.......no

[DannyNJ]

I think at this point, after many interesting comments, it might be a good time to reveal her identity. I'm extremely curious to hear whether other guys have had similar experiences with the same provider.

I've refrained from commenting since I can only dream of having 2 G's for an overnight appointment... but I do agree with previous comments that she should have proactively offered you a portion of her fee back.

If there was "something bugging her" or "personal problems", tough shit. She should have delayed the appointment until she was in a better state of mind. She was hired to do a job and she didn't do it.

SO WHO IS SHE????

[DannyNJ]

WOW... that last post finally got me to SILVER level! Cool.

Now, who is she??

[Casper]

Prefacing my statement by stating I've never had an extended (24) hour "date":

Some things to consider:
1) Was this provider known to be the GFE type
2) Did she explain why things did not work out
3) If that time of the month, she should have postponed it or given you the choice of postponing it
4) If she was tiredand had seen her share of clients during the week prior to meting you, she should have postponed meeting you, no questions about it
5) She owes you an apology at the very least, your review alone will cost her a loss of many future $$
6) Sounds to me like this was an intentional and deliberate attempt to just fatten up her wallet

If we give her the benefit of the doubt, and maybe she was too embarrased or felt no need to explain things to you, then she will soon realize in most cases, it's better to be truthful and bite the bullet once than deal with the rippling effects of a very bad review.

Phantom sorry you got taken but at least you/we have an outlet to prevent this from occuring again, or we'd like to think we do.

Peace Out
C

[Casper]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DannyNJ
[B]WOW... that last post finally got me to SILVER level! Cool.
Danny CONGRATS !!

[theladiesman]

...it's too easy to say, "Yeah, I woulda told her this, that and the other thing."

Sometimes we don't always speak up when it's needed.

I feel your pain, but don't beat yourself up over the lost money. Maybe your next one-hour encounter will be so good that it wipes out this bad memory...

[ew]

You got hosed.
She wasn't tired enough to watch TV.

She knew what she did and she was okay with it. The girl deserves anything she gets on this board. It's easy enough to figure out, just look for the thread.

She belongs in the *** equivalent of a bad-provider database. If she got me for an hour or two, no problemo that's what review boards are for. I am not a vindictive person but I would clearly state my displeasure whenever her name comes up forevermore.
Afterall, it's the truth.

Bad chemistry?
She can FU just fine for an hour but can't when given 24 hours? Give me a break.
This is her living. I assume that she would like to think of herself as a professional and, as a professional, you have nothing but your reputation.

[fishfry]

Did you ever have a date with her prior to this?

You know, many women feel ok doing the fucky/sucky with a guy for an hour or even two. But twenty-four hours crosses a lot of boundaries, and clearly she was not comfortable being that intimate for that long with you.

In general you should do a couple of one-hour dates and maybe a couple of four or five hour dates before trying something like this.

That said, she did rip you off. I think what happened was that in her mind she felt her personal boundaries about to be violated. So she shut down emotionally, and there's nothing you can do.

You could out her by name, but that would create a lot of bad feelings that would last forever and cause everybody on UG to start a month long flamewar. So please don't do that.

My advice: suck it up and learn an expensive lesson. Never commit to a long date with a woman with whom you haven't already established a good rapport.

And women: please don't book sessions longer than you are capable of handling. Some women enjoy the impersonal interaction of a one hour session, but get nervous and feel tied down and violated if the guy wants to get real and be personable over a long period of time. If you're an escort and in your heart you aren't capable of doing a session like this, please do everyone a favor and don't book it in the first place.

fish

[NYCBoy]

I've had this happen on much shorter dates costing much less. No chemistry. And in 1 of the cases the SP was very highly rated and my buddy had a great session with her 4 hours later. YMMV. Written off against all the other better experiences.

Lastly, $2K is not the same to everyone. If you can afford to spend it on a "date" then it probably is not a significant amount of money.

[Bill Furniture]

$2000, wow! That's alot of bucks to put down. Maybe you could complain, kinda like Carl said he did, and get some free time with her. Are you gonna mention who it was?

SpiritOf93@aol.com

[adude]

and the true identity of the lady is . . . . . . drum roll please . . . . . she's, she's, lemur's mom.

i always get a real big laugh when lemur chirps in.

[dogstar]

Bitchy Wife Experience. !!!!!!!!

2 G's is 2 G's she should give most if not all back. I doubt you will see a dime though

[Ozzy]

:rolleyes:

[sigma089]

Phantom, I believe that your continued failure to reveal this provider's identity is wrong. I suspect most of your readers have been speculating on her identity for quite some time. This thread has now lasted over 9 hours, and it began with your statement that most of us know who this person is. The range of uninfluenced opinions you have already received is not likely to be further expanded upon in the next hour or two or nine.

Who is this provider?

[Ozzy]

most of you know her.....few of you have seen her. phantom is probably getting a good nights sleep.


he wanted some unbiased opinions before mentioning her name. he'll tell you soon enough....

[Phantom]

First of all I would like to thank eveyone for their thoughts and comments both here on UG and those sent to me privately.

Now for the identity of the girl. SlinkyBender was said that mentioning this girls name in a thread hee on UG was akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater. It's bound to create another uproar, but I feel that I must inform the other guys here on UG.

The girls name is Janelle.

[Lemurrush]

Originally posted by adude
and the true identity of the lady is . . . . . . drum roll please . . . . . she's, she's, lemur's mom.

i always get a real big laugh when lemur chirps in.

LOL - Nah...it couldn't be her; she was on a weekend date with MJC :) And he apparently had the time of his life (besides the parking lot excursion with me, of course)...

For the record (especially for you with the superior intellect, emm dub!) :) MJC and I are actually good friends - we just like busting each others chops quite a bit...

Lemur

[JohnJ]

Expensive lesson..........

[Carl M]

Now I definitely feel your pain bro!!! Chalk it up as a complete writeoff and block it from your mind!!!!

[Geezy Muldoon]

real intent

[Edited by Judge Crater on 07-25-2001 at 07:30 PM]

[Phantom]

Judge,

For a long time I was really torn between seeing her or not. I've read so many opposing reviews on her that I got to a point were I did not know which to believe. The only absolute way of deciding which reviews were correct was to see for myself.

You can ask others who know me that I did not see her to take advantage of he or mistreat her in any way. If the providers who I've seen were members of UG they would tell you that I treat them all exceptionally well.

Maybe I was hoping that through my respect and kindness I could nuture a relationship with her and show her that not all guys are jerks who just want to take advantage of her. By "relationship" I mean a business relationship.

[Geezy Muldoon]

human.

[Edited by Judge Crater on 07-25-2001 at 07:59 PM]

[Bill Furniture]

Phantom, Thanks for letting us know who it was. It could save someone alot of money.

Lemur and MJC, I'm glad you're just kidding, there's no need to fight here.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Judge Crater
Sorry, that you had to learn such an expensive lesson. I'm sure that she could use the money, though, if that is any consolation.

I really don't think of it as a lesson learned. I think of it as more as the law of averages catching up with me. During the past few years I've seen many providers were the first meeting was a 24 hour date. ALL have worked out great. I become regulars of the special great ones. I'm not saying that those who I did not become a regular of I did not have a great time during our only meeting, I did. One has become a close and trusted friend even though she is almost completely out of the business and I have not seen her for close to a year. we talk frequently on the phone. She has become a valuble source of info, someone who I can ask a question and receive an honest answer.

I'm aware that J could use the $2K. Maybe sub conciously it was a gift. If there is any truth to karma maybe one day I'll find out.

[Edited by Phantom on 07-24-2001 at 12:26 PM]

[Wwanderer]

There is a reason that so many hobbyists and providers will
advise you not to book overnight or longer dates until you
have had at least a few satisfactory short term meetings, a
reason that this is almost universal accepted wisdom among
those experienced in the Biz. The simple *fact* is that
there is always some *chance* that a particular man and woman
will have little or no sexual/personal chemistry or even
a negative reaction to one another. The probability that
things will go sour (or just flat) depends on the
individuals; some are more flexible and/or easier to please
than others, but it is always there at some level.

In my opinion, Phantom, your experience just illustrates this
fact. All of your previous long term first dates may have
been great, but it is like winning 6 hands in a row at the
blackjack tables in Atlantic City. It does not mean that you
are sure (or even more likely) to win the 7th.

Now, if you are happy gambling your money and time on first
meeting overnight dates, good luck and more power to you. I
certainly have no problem with it, but you had best expect to
get burned occasionally and accept it as the price of your
*choice* to play such a high stakes game.

-Ww

[Lemurrush]

Originally posted by Bill Furniture
Lemur and MJC, I'm glad you're just kidding, there's no need to fight here.

Oh, yes, most definitely kidding - it wouldn't have been so funny if we weren't...

I mean, if nothing else, we aim to entertain ;)

Lemur

[Ozzy]

seems like december was years ago. how things can change in such a sort time.

ITYS

[MJC185]

Originally posted by Bill Furniture


Lemur and MJC, I'm glad you're just kidding, there's no need to fight here.

Hey Bill....we were kidding until that lout said those things about my mama like that! Then the gloves came off.

So, in light of Lemur's indiscretion, letting everyone know I had a weekend date with him mom, here is my review of Lemur's mom:

Looks: 8
Anyone who has seen Lemur's ugly mug knows, without a doubt, that he was adopted. The only thing she passed on to him was her love of little boys *see 'Body'

Body: 6
All those naked backrubs he gives her have made her lazy, but she used to have a killer body. I have been seeing her steadily for about 15 years now. She accepted me as a client when i was 11 because she said I reminded her of her 'little lemur boy'.

Performance: 10
Lemur, only being comfortable sexually with his mommy, brought her with him to his first 25 or 30 sessions. So this lady got to see how it was done by some of the best. And boy did she learn well! What a fireplug!

Price: $6.50
Good ol mom has always kept my rate the same as it was when i first started seeing her. Here's a tip for all you gift givers though...a buttplug will get you far! The bigger the better. It really makes her happy to be able to bring something home to Lemur when she is done.

So let's all give a big thank you to Lemur for grooming one of the USA's finest!





[Edited by MJC185 on 07-24-2001 at 01:26 PM]

[Lemurrush]

My mom has been dead for a year now, MJC...I let the naked backrub thing slide because I could see the humor in that, and you didn't know any better...

But, to make this post, even after knowing the truth, just reveals you to be a callous, cold individual, who seemingly will stop at nothing just to get a joke...well, enjoy your joke; even at my expense...I'm sure it feels good...

Lemur

[Phantom]

If you two are just kidding then I'm the pope.

[MJC185]

if she's been dead for a year, as you claim, then why did you inform everyone that I had a weekend date with her???

Don't believe the hype folks...Lemur's mom lives! I admit, she is near death after our sessions, but she is alive and kickin.

[Lemurrush]

Originally posted by MJC185
if she's been dead for a year, as you claim, then why did you inform everyone that I had a weekend date with her???

Don't believe the hype folks...Lemur's mom lives! I admit, she is near death after our sessions, but she is alive and kickin.

Explained and answered - I saw the humor; and took your naivete into consideration...Plus, you whined like a baby when I picked on your mom... But subsequent to that post, you KNEW the truth...and we had called a cease-fire (sparked by my admission that we were "just" kidding)...

To come back the following day, and RATE my mom...well, my prior comments stand...Enjoy the fanfare...

Lemur

[MJC185]

So you caught me....I haven't seen Lemur's mom in over a year due to her early passing. Twas a shame.

But his step-mom is a dead ringer and just as good!

[Lemurrush]

Originally posted by MJC185
So you caught me....I haven't seen Lemur's mom in over a year due to her early passing. Twas a shame.

But his step-mom is a dead ringer and just as good!

I...I'm...flabbergasted...can't even find the words to respond...

[MJC185]

Lemur's step-mom does not post pics on the net, but if you go to http://www.rotten.com and look under the trainwreck section, there is a pic of his mom. Please keep in mind, she was not having a good hair/makeup day when the pic was taken...but boy that body!

[Slinky Bender]

Ok, guys, that's enough, even if you are just havin' fun.

[Hotpuppy]

As the guys in my neighborhood used to say, "No Mothers"!
HP

[Beth<3]

Judge Carter - The mere fact that you feel the need to pay for sex is obviouly your personal problem. I have seen your posts before but have reframed from lashing back at you. How is your wife the virgin?
I hope you give out lean sentance as you, one day will have to face the pearly gates of heaven one day - And I hope that GOD fuckin treats you the way you speak of of us prostutes. I am glad to see my tax dollars wasted on a shit head such as yourself. YOU MAKE ME SICK!
As for you CarlM you never came close to having an expercience such as Phatom has. Why don't you post the letter you wrote to me up here ( I do have a copy still yah know) and see how and why you got your free session? YES it was me that CArlM had a unbearable time with and I am not asshamed to admitt it. I do run other things such as another business and a family to boot - and YES they need to get in touch with me. For this I will never apologize for, ever.
As I recall you were wearing a wedding band? Am I right about this or is it just put there for show? Because I honestly don't know who or what for that matter would marry YOU!
Carl if I ever see you post one more god dam thing on UG I will take full action against you. You did drive away first and yes I did see what car you were driving. I would bet dollars to dougnuts that you are not married, as I stated above you are to much of an asshole to have someone love you, that is why you HAVE to pay for sex! RIGHT? because I am sure there isn't a person alive who would fuck you. Your name of Magic tongue fits you about as much as a size 10 fits me.
After I post this I am sure I have started a flame war, but what the heck I am just a protitute right JUDGE?

In closing I want to thank all the gentemen who have treated me with dignity and respect and treated me like the lady that I am.
Take care and best of luck. I am thru being a prostitue after what I have seen written hear on this post.
I am sick to my stomach by the small minded morons like you Judge.
Don't bother writing back to me on this board as I walked away from *** I am walking away from UG.
But I will be watching YOU Carl, bank on it!

True, working as a prostitute is not doing any woman any favors in the long run. But we should stick to those who have the souls of Mack trucks and who really suffer no additional damage from the work because they are not feeling anything, view us as chumps for the taking and have their masks well in place.

[SkellyChamp]

Wow

In JC's defense he is clearly a cynic, thinks little of himself is very conflicted about his involvement in the hobby. Many of his observations, many of which I don't disagree with, are obviously generalizations and not necessarily applicable to all.

Can't comment on the rest.

[Geezy Muldoon]

January 24, 2002.

[Edited by Judge Crater on 07-25-2001 at 07:35 PM]

[Ozzy]

after that post, i don't think she has a choice.

[Hotpuppy]

Judge,
Have never responded to one of your posts because my views on just about everything are the polar opposite of yours and I have found through experience that communication ( which requires successful transmission and receipt) is never possible in this situation. But Im in another nicotine-less induced funk and I thought I would comment on two things, firstly I dont agree that sexual relations is the chief symbol of intimacy( which seems central to many of your beliefs). I would tell you what I believe about intimacy, but I dont trust you enough. Secondly, how can you apologize to Beth and then a couple of paragraphs later make a backhanded remark about her education? Please do not take any of my remarks as an attempt to flame or show you up.
take care HP

[Geezy Muldoon]

testing.

[Edited by Judge Crater on 07-25-2001 at 08:36 PM]

[candie]

capture the mind.......the body will always follow

[Edited by candie on 07-24-2001 at 09:28 PM]

[Hotpuppy]

Originally posted by Judge Crater


We are all anonymous here. It's only the testing of ideas that count. So don't let your lack of trust of me stop you. .

I dont know as I agree with the anonymity statement, and I should have said that I dont trust the board in general enough to expose my feelings about intimacy, didnt mean to signal you out.
HP

[Slinky Bender]

To all:

Please read the new thread in the "General" section ( it should be obvious which one I mean ).

[ew]

Why do I get the feeling that her name would have never, ever been mentioned if it wasn't J?

Now that I think about it, I was surprised that Phantom being a master of innuendo and the wink/nudge method of board communication would be so bold as to openly be negative against a provider. But being that the answer was what it was...it was fine.

Now, can some of you people stop treating her as if she is helpless? She never was. She may have her problems but I think we proved that being powerless isn't one of them.

Retire? I doubt she will. Maybe she is just trying to kill off the JAG contingent that caused her so much hassle.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by ew
Why do I get the feeling that her name would have never, ever been mentioned if it wasn't J?

EW you are so wrong, even if it wasn't J I still would have posted the offending providers name.

[DannyNJ]

I must have missed something here... where the hell did all this anger come from?? I was just following the thread and all of a sudden a provider is lashing out at Carl and another at Judge Crater. I'm not taking any sides here but as I read it, I get the feeling there is a lot of "inside info" connected to all this.

This is beginning to make me wonder if it's a "good idea" to have a board where both customers and providers post. Seems to be a lot of hard feelings going around.

[ew]

Of course there's anger, but there's also honesty.
I still think this is preferable to bland vanilla posts such as "what's your favorite sandwich?"

There're in it for the money and we are in it for the sex.

Phantom, that's a bet I will take. Let's here you tell the truth about some other escorts. It's not going to happen though because you will no doubt defer to SB's post.

[martiny]

Where in SB's post does it say not to post truthtful info about experiences someone actually had ??????

[Gooey2k]

While I originally thought we would not find out who it was....I applaud Phantom for saying. Too many providers are allowed to take advantage because people feel 'sorry' for them

[Phantom]

EW,

I'm afaid that's a bet that I can not take, but not for the reason you might think. I tend to find one or two providers who I really like and then become almost exclusive regulars of them. Outside of J I've only seen two other providers who I've seen over the past two years. I'm sure you know that when a provider "retires" it doesn't necessarily mean that she isn't seeing anybody, but only seeing a very select group. That's how it is with these two providers.

Again I'm sure that you are aware that the lifespan of a provider in the business is not very long, so you have to scout out potental future prospects. That was what I was doing with J. I wanted to see if it was possible to nurture a business relationship with her and if there was only chemistry between us. Obviously there wasn't. While I may not see many different providers I'm always on the lookout for that special, unique provider. Someone who I can cultivate a long lasting relationship with.

I think I know SB well enough that if I had a truthful negitive review on someone new I have seen he would not have a problem with me posting my experience here on UG.

[HappyGilmore]

Phantom, you are on the money about "retired" providers. I just saw my all time favorite "retired" provider.

[candie]

bout 2 days a week ew, its the money... bout 5 days its difinetely the sex... but thats not my fault... i was born over sexed!

[ew]

I know that I don't know slinkybender at all and I think that I can be pretty sure that if I said something like, "XX doesn't look anything like her pictures there would be hell to pay". It would be the truth.

Please tell Phantom, why J? She seemed like an easy mark? Quite slippery and in the end she played you just like JC got it from Becka.

But that's okay that's the game we play. Most bang for the buck.

[Phantom]

Why J? Maybe because of her age, her location in NYC it only took me 20 mintues to get to her place from whee I live in NJ. And because I was told and read that she did the things that I liked.

And NOT because I thought she was an easy mark.

[ew]

Try lexxi on *** (shivers). Never used her services but I've seen her pic.

She's somewhere down the NJ shore. 2K for a weekend. I believe she does what you require.

I have a theory on J's level of service it isn't in direct proportion to the drink she partakes in but in her internet profile. She certainly knows that people have posted everything the know about her. Who wouldn't be resentful?

[Ozzy]

ew...

she doesn't know that much. she knows little of what was really written on jag and i'm pretty sure she has no clue as to whats on UG about her, or silnky or UG would have heard from her. she's not type to let this slide when she could easily respond. she doesn't pay any attention to the boards and it's been questioned as to whether she even still owns a computer.

[ew]

Actually she knows a lot of it from both JAG and UG.

I said something like, "you raise quite a fuss whenever your name comes up."

And she went on to say how hurtful it is that people post stuff on boards that they have no business posting. She said that she would/could respond but that she's not that type of person to get wound up into negativity.

So, I think you are right that she doesn't pay attention to the boards, but she hears about all of it. But she chooses to ignore it. People do insist on telling her though.

[SkellyChamp]

Am I the only one here who pays for sex because I just want uncommitted, non controlling non relationship uncomplicated sex when I want sex. There are others in my life for intimacy, conversation, friendship etc. I've met some fine woman who no doubt if we wanted to go that route I can have some sort of friendship or intimacy with or whatever. But I pay for a service they provide. When I need my teeth cleaned I go to a dentist, when I need my cock cleaned I go to a provider. There is not a whole lot of complication here as far as I am concerned.

[Slinky Bender]

You are not the only one, but sometimes I think we are in the extreme minority. Of course, that's not to say we are any better. Everyone is entitled to seek what they want.

[ew]

Me too.

I have to do something before, between and after though.

[Ozzy]

EW...

i don't think she knows EXACTLY whats been written....


i had told her a long time ago that a lot of the hurtful stuff on JAG was deleted (i lied). anyone who insist on telling her that it's stil there and it's exact contents is a fucking idiot.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by ew
You got hosed.
She wasn't tired enough to watch TV.

She knew what she did and she was okay with it. The girl deserves anything she gets on this board. It's easy enough to figure out, just look for the thread.

She belongs in the *** equivalent of a bad-provider database. If she got me for an hour or two, no problemo that's what review boards are for. I am not a vindictive person but I would clearly state my displeasure whenever her name comes up forevermore. Afterall, it's the truth.

Bad chemistry? She can FU just fine for an hour but can't when given 24 hours? Give me a break. This is her living. I assume that she would like to think of herself as a professional and, as a professional, you have nothing but your reputation.

EW, above are your posted thoughts before you knew the provides name. Now after learning it was Janelle, your thoughts seemed to have changed and you seem to be defending J and what she did.

Care to explain this change of position?

[Ozzy]

thats because he still see's her......


re: his 12:06 am post on 7/25

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Ozzy
thats because he still see's her......


And that's one of the reasons I did not reveal her real name in my opening post on this thread.

[Edited by Phantom on 07-25-2001 at 09:50 AM]

[Humble Narrator]

JC: I understand your condition, but finally feel compelled to tell you that not everyone here shares it with you.

I find it particularly distasteful that given your constant self-flagellation that you continue to pontificate on the nature of hobbyists and providers in such a way as to virtually declare us all amoral, insensate, emotionally crippled creatures. Perhaps these apply to you, but certainly not to me and probably not to many if not most of us here.

Perhaps a hiatus from the board AND the hobby is in order. I don't for one second believe that you think your posts are helping anyone else. They are simply self-serving, back-handed insults laced into a pseudo-lecture on your perceived sadly romantic plight.

What I mean to say here is that if you really believe ANY of what you say, you shouldn't be here. I'm not telling you what to do, just making an observation.

Phantom: Shame on you.

My first post in this thread ended with the statement that there is probably more to this story. When you asked for "unbiased" comments, what you really wanted was "uninformed" comments. Your story should have included comments to the effect that "Sara was known to be unreliable, unbalanced and likely suffering from several psychological disturbances." How different would our comments have been had you included that one sentence!

SB: SK too: I love the hobby. I have made some genuine friends among providers, but have never become involved romantically. Unlike some of our group, I do not view my adventures as romantic. Sex is not Romance! Nor is sex the primary symbol of intimacy.

Intimate discourse, acts of altruism, genuine care and concern shown through self-sacrifice, these are the greatest acts of intimacy. These have very little, if anything to do with the hobby.

[beep9]

Originally posted by Phantom

<snip>

EW, above are your posted thoughts before you knew the provides name. Now after learning it was Janelle, your thoughts seemed to have changed and you seem to be defending J and what she did.

Care to explain this change of position? [/B]

I can't speak for ew, but I have some suspicions. Someone posted in another thread somewhere here that anyone who saw Janelle at this point was doing so on the basis of bad reviews or ignorance (not having seen the relatively recent bad reviews). Since ignorance is not the case here, ew could be asking what in hell was expected? Did someone think he was a knight in shining armor to solve this girl's problems? Did the princess want to be rescued (It doesn't sound like it).

Review: J's performance was unanimated and detached.
Complaint: I read the reviews, saw J, and I was robbed: she took my money and was unanimated and detached.


[Edited by beep9 on 07-25-2001 at 09:57 AM]

[SkellyChamp]

HumbleN - I wasn't attacking or even per se commenting on yours or anyone else's motivation or reason for "hobbying". I was simply expounding on mine. I said I've met some very nice women who in a different setting, life or time I could become friendly with (or more - who knows). But for me it is simply about sex, plain and simple (well, hopefully not too plain or too simple). No romance, no friendship, no control, no romance, no illusion of romance. If you or anyone or everyone else gets what they want out of your involvement, more power to you.

[Phantom]

HN,

So now I'm to blame for everything that happened?

What did I expect when I booked J. I expected what I have gotten from numerous other escorts who I've booked for extended dates. Several hours of sexually activity, nothing more. I expected a basic level of service from a girl who makes her living doing sexually acts for guys in exchange for money. I believe YMMV only comes into play for services above and beyond a basic level of service. YMMV had nothing to do with what happened or did not happen.

It really makes me wonder what agenda you guys have who criticized "Sara", but who are now defending J.

[Humble Narrator]

Originally posted by SkellyChamp
HumbleN - I wasn't attacking or even per se commenting on yours or anyone else's motivation or reason for "hobbying". I was simply expounding on mine. I said I've met some very nice women who in a different setting, life or time I could become friendly with (or more - who knows). But for me it is simply about sex, plain and simple (well, hopefully not too plain or too simple). No romance, no friendship, no control, no romance, no illusion of romance. If you or anyone or everyone else gets what they want out of your involvement, more power to you.

We're on the same page.

I included you with SB because it seemed that the three of us were in the minority together. I didn't mean to give the impression that you were in the "other" group. Sorry if I did.

[SkellyChamp]

HN - My error. I re- read your post and guess interpreted it wrong the first time. Guess I'm in violation of one of Slinky's 10 commandments. I will bind myself to a golden provider and descend into the depths of hell. Once again and again and again.

[Humble Narrator]

Originally posted by Phantom
So now I'm to blame for everything that happened?

What did I expect when I booked J. I expected what I have gotten from numerous other escorts who I've booked for extended dates. Several hours of sexually activity, nothing more. I expected a basic level of service from a girl who makes her living doing sexually acts for guys in exchange for money. I believe YMMV only comes into play for services above and beyond a basic level of service. YMMV had nothing to do with what happened or did not happen.

It really makes me wonder what agenda you guys have who criticized "Sara", but who are now defending J.

1 - Of course you are not to blame for everything, but you are to blame for ignoring history. After all, isn't that one of the main reasons we have this board in the first place? To determine ahead of time who will and will not provide what we want is certainly one of my main goals for being here.

2 - The past is the greatest predictor of the future, plus or minus 15%. I can't imagine anyone expecting good service from J based on the reviews I have seen. Your statements that you expected the same thing you've received from other providers when booking for extended periods seems to ignore all the evidence. Even EW doesn't really give her ringing endorsements.

3 - YMMV means YMMV. I don't think it implies there will be some fixed baseline of service, above which YMMV. I would be interested in how others interpret this ubiquitous caveat.

4 - I have no agenda per se. I don't know J other than what I have seen here, nor do I know you other than what you post. I stand by my last post wherein I state that your ommission of crucial details about "Sara" was a smokescreen. You can't consider the earlier responses as valid given that you left out vital information about her.

Frankly, most of what was said about "Sara" was fair and reasonable, but in light of the condition of the provider (not the identity as such) I think everyone's comments would have been different or at least more expansive.

[Edited by Humble Narrator on 07-25-2001 at 11:03 AM]

[TuckernotSucker]

I am grateful that I saw her at her best. Not so grateful for seeing her at her worst (duly reported here months ago).
I feel bad for Phantom. But also feel bad for the guys her agency sends her out to for $1200. per hour.

[justlooking]

Questions for Phantom

1. Did you ever actually ask Janelle for a refund? If you did, what did she say?

2. Did you ever tell Janelle that you were unsatisfied with the level of service she gave you? If so, what did she say?

[Edited by justlooking on 07-25-2001 at 11:26 AM]

[Phantom]

The past is the greatest predictor of the future, plus or minus 15%. I can't imagine anyone expecting good service from J based on the reviews I have seen. Your statements that you expected the same thing you've received from other providers when booking for extended periods seems to ignore all the evidence. Even EW doesn't really give her ringing endorsements.

I was told by someone who has seen J and had a good time with that the way to get good sevice from her was to treat her nicely and to treat her like a real woman, not just as an object of lust. That's what I did

YMMV means YMMV. I don't think it implies there will be some fixed baseline of service, above which YMMV. I would be interested in how others interpret this ubiquitous caveat.

If you schedule time with an escort, either for an hour or 24 hours, you can expect certain things to happen. You will give her money in exchange for sexually acts. You can and should expect a basic level of service from a woman who provides sex in exchange for money. The enthusiasm that she shows or doesn't show while performing the basic level of service is YMMV.

I have no agenda per se. I don't know J other than what I have seen here, nor do I know you other than what you post. I stand by my last post wherein I state that your ommission of crucial details about "Sara" was a smokescreen. You can't consider the earlier responses as valid given that you left out vital information about her.

I did not deliberately leave out "crucial details". I'm not perfect, I'm only human and I make mistakes. You know if she would have given just a little more effort and performed even a couple of basic acts that one would expect from an escort I would never have written this my review of her, but she did next to absolutely nothing

[Phantom]

Originally posted by justlooking
1. Did you ever actually ask Janelle for a refund? If you did, what did she say?

No and I don't intend to. I'm just going to take it as the law of averages catching up to me and put it behind me. There has been other times that I've posted info that was not very well received by cetain people, but it was important info that I felt other guys needed to know in order to make the best informed decisions. This is one of those times.

2. Did you ever tell Janelle that you were unsatisfied with the level of service she gave you? If so, what did she say?

I never told J outright that I was totally unsatisfied with her level of service. I'm sure she knew, because if she didn't why when I dropped her off in NYC did she say, "I'm sorry things did not work out the way you had hoped". That statement alone says to me that she was aware of my displeasure in the complete lack of even basic service.


[Edited by Phantom on 07-25-2001 at 11:50 AM]

[justme]

As much as JC's posts are a different voice and represent a different viewpoint, I appreciate their presence on the board. While I agree that by his own logic, his partaking in commercial sex seems to be somewhat self defeating I still see that he might benefit from the discussion that goes on here. Having read his opinions for close to a year, I can also say that his perception on these endeavors has changed over that period of time.

His posts are certainly inflamatory, but I think they seldom cross whatever mental line SB has on propriety (again, APM, please correct me if I'm wrong). I do think, however, that beth's post went way over that line.

I'd be pretty disturbed if he felt like he was run off UG for having an unpopular viewpoint.

[Bill Furniture]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and some may agree with it while others may disagree.

[pswope]

Phantom
As you would probably agree,I've never had any conflict with you before nor even commented on your behavior as a client. Thus please take the following in the spirit of constructive criticism.
You appear to occupy a unique position as a client and your behavior,as far as I've observed has been honorable. Indeed,you've shown remarkable generosity to providers,a fact that has been noted by many of them.
That being said,your statement that your motive for beginning this thread is to inform other prospective clients of the pratfalls of seeing this lady,strikes a false chord for me.
The serious frailities of this particuliar provider have been well documented on popularly read public commercial sex boards for a long time. Thus, her conduct on your date,while clearly wrong,should have come as no surprise to you or any other client ,who seeks providers through the internet.Clearly,there was no great salutary purpose to adding another chapter to her already sad legend.

Moreover, as there are always two sides to every story,it seems even more unfair to have started this thread knowing,she would not respond. Isn't it possible,that you sent off certain explicit or implicit cues,that provoked her behavior and thus would provide an explanation for it?
For example,if you maybe sent a message that you were looking for more than a typical provider-client relationship,you may have scared her.
While the provider was clearly wrong in her behavior,your answers to justlooking's questions suggest that you bear alot of responsibility for what happened.
While it's palpably unreasonable for her to expect that a desultory bj would suffice for a weekend date,your failure directly address this or ask for some type of financial adjustments implicates you in the result,as well.
Given what you knew about the unstable nature of this lady before your date,was it reasonable to expect her to volunteer a refund? or ask if you wanted more sex?

I know that your behavior in this thread isn't maleovently motivated,but you should re-examine it in the hopes of improving your batting average.

[Humble Narrator]

Originally posted by justme
His posts are certainly inflamatory, but I think they seldom cross whatever mental line SB has on propriety

<snip>

I'd be pretty disturbed if he felt like he was run off UG for having an unpopular viewpoint.

Perhaps you are alluding to posts other than mine, but in light of the chronology, I might assume you are speaking to me. If so, let me say emphatically I am NOT trying to silence anyone.

JC is a big boy and can and does make his own decisions. My note to him was an effort to point out some inconsistencies and to say, somewhat indelicately perhaps, that he should consider a hiatus. This was suggested not because of the relatively low popularity of his positions, but due to his own rationale about hobby involvement. If he sincerely feels that this activity is deleterious to him and others, then by all means, he should seek alternatives. To try and convince the rest of us that his self-assessment can be generalized to the entire hobbyist population is an activity that I find distasteful.

Hopefully everyone will decide for themselves what has value here and what does not.

[Slinky Bender]

One note about the Judge's posts:

More than anyone else on this board ( or just about any other board anywhere ), he has taken the heaping of venomous criticisms about his controversial view without responding in kind, flaming, etc. While he may say things which are both controvesial, and a lot of folks may find offensive, there is little evidnce that most of the statments are geared towards the personl infliction of pain on any particular person. In fact, it seems that every time someone has taken a personal offense at any of his views, even when they were not aimed at that person, Crater has appologised for even that. I wish I could say the same for everyone here ( myself included ).

If we were to simply ban all unpopular speach, this would become a very boring place very quickly. While i do not agree with a lot of what he says "I defend to the death his right to say it". Freedom of speach isn't about defending the rights of people to say things you agree with.

Yes, some of the things he says are offensive. yes, a lot of what he says is talking about himself, rather than others; but if that is so obvious, why is is so hard to take ? The only reason to be offended when you know he's talking about himself is if there is some kernal of truth in it for you. When I disagree with him because I think his facts or logic are flawed, I have said so here ( in fact, I think there was one thread where I said so about 4 separate times ). But that's how adults have conversations on issues, not simply by trying to "shout the other side down".

We all have our "issues" and JC has his. Perhaps Humble Narrator is correct, and he should go on "hiatus", but I also think that is stictly his own decesion. I also don't think there is anything "wrong" with him bouncing these concepts off the folks on this board. perhaps he is simply feeling these concepts out and wants to hear the counter arguments from an intelligent and informed group ( after all, where else is he going to be able to have a conversation with a people who are not going to go into it with the assumption that the whole area is "wrong". Wouldn't that taint any possibilty of having a meanigful discourse, no matter what the real issues were ? ).

[Slinky Bender]

As far as Phantom and this thread:

Since I can not get inside his head, I will never know his motives. However, if ( and this is a big if ) he never intended to disclose the provider's name, and did so simply because of the demands made to do so in the course of the thread, it is hard to assign malice towards Sara as a motive ( obviously, we will never know the answer to this, barring an admission from him ).

That notwithstanding, I really don't see what this "story" has to do with much as it pertains to other members. I don't see how it wil change anyone's opinion of her, and as such I find it hard to get excited about the effects on her. Do we think that there were folks who were going to see her right up until the point that they read this, and now will forego seeing her ? I highly doubt that !!!! Was someone else planning on seeing her for 24 hours for $2K who had never seen her before ??? While I highly doubt it, then this "story" is not wasted.

I guess, to some extent, what it boils down to for me is:

1) Do we think that Phantom is lying ? If no, then I don't think there is anything so highly inflamatory in his post which makes his having made it "wrong".

2) Is "Sara" now some "sacred cow" that nothing should even be posted about her ? I personally don't think so. She takes dates, gets booked thru an agency which has her photo on the web, etc.

3) Is Phantom a total innocent here ? Obviously not, but I don't see him jumping up and down claiming to be one, either ( unless I am missing something ).

4) I think cautionary tales are one of the reasons to read "the boards". If anyone learned anything fom this, then it was worthwhile. And i hope at least someone ho had thought about booking an extended visit with someone whom they had never seen before did learn something fo this.

5) Similary, I hope that some will also learn that, as in most "relationships", whatever happened to others will happen to them, and they are being silly when they think, well, I know that happened to him, but I'm different and it won't go that way with me.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by pswope
but you should re-examine it in the hopes of improving your batting average.

pswope,

Would it surprise you that based solely on seeing someone for the first time for a 24 hour date (which have been the vast majority of my "dates") and have it be very enjoyable my batting average is .923?

Thank you for the rest of your thoughful comments.

[SkellyChamp]

Slinky

Here here to your two prior posts.

It is very clear, at least to me, that JC's views (many of which I have stated I do share tho perhaps not to his extreme or would espouse in the manner he does) while posited as "generalizations" are clearly expressed as being his own. He has not sought to impose them on anyone but merely give expression to them here (and on JAG under his other guise) where they should and could at least be heard if not understand to whatever degree. His right to "unburden" himself should be encouraged not discouraged.

As for Phantom, he clearly indicated up front that he would disclose who he was talking about. I don't think the fact that he didn't disclose it was Janelle (notwithstanding everyones apparent knowledge of her unstable nature - and isn't it interesting that everyone tends to refer to her as J rather than just saying her name - seems to me to be a residual effect from the positngs on JAG earlier this year) was necessarily germane to what he was asking as a general principle. Obviously, given her "problems" Phantom bore a greater risk of something not going right and that is a risk he should have and possibly did consider. If it did happen then that was his risk and problem. I found his question to be more of a general one and to that extent he got valuable insight and answers. I don't know Phantom from squat and it is quite obvious to me that he and I have polar opposite views of our "hobby" but I saw nothing evil or duplicituous in the way or what he posted here. And Slinky is right, if even one person benefited from the thread I find it worthwhile.

[Slinky Bender]

"Slinky is right"

Note to providers: this is Slinkybender's idea of foreplay.

[Hotpuppy]

Thats Hall of Fame( more on this in the future) numbers. Just curious , how did you arrive at that figure?:)
ever curious HP

[Slinky Bender]

Didn't he say it was 12 out of 13 ??????

[Phantom]

Over the past 5 years I've seen 13 different escorts for 24 hours or longer dates were I have never seen them before for a shorter time. 12 great experiences, 1 bad one. Since I tend to become a regular of one or two different women, only with the best of the 12 I became a regular with. 6 absolutely incredible women. Any one of which if I had to choose just one it would be very, very difficult, but I'd be completely satisfied with any one of those 6.

Maybe that's why the date with J was the bad one, it was the 13th.

[Edited by Phantom on 07-25-2001 at 03:32 PM]

[Hotpuppy]

Phantom,check your anon. email
HP

[Hotpuppy]

Originally posted by slinkybender
Didn't he say it was 12 out of 13 ??????

SB,
I can barely add much less do %
HP

[Ozzy]

skelly...

the reason for the "J" is pretty simple and it's been brought up before. some people who i guess haven't been on jag mentioned her name and it got out here on UG. i try to not mention her name for what sould be obvious reasons. sometimes even i slip up.

[SkellyChamp]

Ozzy - I was just making an observation. I'm well aware of what went on in JAG and your reasons. I was a fringe commentator on this issue on JAG at the time (though obviously under a different handle).

[Edited by SkellyChamp on 07-25-2001 at 08:26 PM]

[littleguy]

WOW

[wsb]

Wow, I just skimmed some of this thread. Has anyone counted how many commandments were broken???

Seriously, even though I am a freedom of expression nut, I think Beth's post should be deleted and she should be banned from the board. Is it just me or is there a trend developing here on UG with LI providers going apesh*t???

Even though I don't care for very many of his posts, I hope CarlM continues to post and doesn't let this bother him. I dislike seeing this sort of thing happen to any john or provider. I suppose it does provide further support for not giving private info to providers (oh, and rent a car next time).

I definitely hope that JC continues to post. UG would be far less interesting without him.

Peace,

WSB

[wsb]

Originally posted by Ozzy
skelly...

the reason for the "J" is pretty simple and it's been brought up before. some people who i guess haven't been on jag mentioned her name and it got out here on UG. i try to not mention her name for what sould be obvious reasons. sometimes even i slip up.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but the reasons aren't obvious to me. Please enlighten.

--WSB

[ew]

Where did the anger in the thread come from
(re: Beth/Crater)?

Well JC does have a rather clear view of what the dynamic is, although he might be indelicate as I am sure he would admit, and that is money for sex. Those who have the money set the ground rules. Those who have a lot of money use that to get what they want whether it is "better" service, "additional" service, and "discounted" service. The money we have are the strings whereby we attempt to make another person do what we want.

So this allows us to define whom retired ladies see as their "selected" group. The selected group are the clients culled from their large client base who are willing to pay the increased rates they charge when they retire. Please get a grip. This group is not so select. There are many ladies in NJ who charge comparable rates for lesser service than Nicole. So this select group is actually much larger than you'd like to think, after all you would not be able to make up the difference in income no matter how much money you have. But, I suspect (actually I am sure) that the good ones control us to a degree that we don’t even know it. This includes J’s ability to elicit sympathy and retired escort to get paid more for what they provided for less previously.

By admission you have seen the best of the best. I think that the providers who are reading this know, and can attest (though they may not), that it is the skill that they possess to make every booking a special booking. So do not assume that since you have had 12 for 12 (which by itself makes me laugh, do you keep exploded pie charts of services rendered bbbjtc 40% etc) that it was anything in you that made for that winning streak, besides your money.

The toughest meeting, in my opinion is the first one. That is the skill that some escorts have mastered with their chameleon abilities to adapt themselves to the peculiarities of their clients. So the mere fact that you have exclude yourself from the danger of a bad experience implies to me that you wouldn’t know how to deal with a less than ideal situation. You are used to being catered to by an escort who is exceptional in any case, but has also learned you better than you could ever expect. “I’m sorry is something wrong?” is a very good question to ask of the women in your life, whether you pay them or not. I think that everyone has experienced the chilling effect that advances have had when something isn’t right.

Hey, I learned something in this thread. You should act “like a gentlemen for some providers to increase your mileage”. ??? I thought that was a given but perhaps that can shed some light the point in this thread about where the anger may be coming from. You expect the service because you paid your money. As Littleguy has said elsewhere, and you pointed out recently, you’re/he’s going to cum in an escorts mouth if she hasn’t explicitly said not to. Well, let’s face it you said come spend a day with me at my shore house. And you got that. You also got hosed. You were out of your class when you thought that she could be bent to your will by money. Any working provider has had sex with more people under any and all conditions than even the most experienced “hobby-goer”. I am certain that if she were really evil or a rip-of artist she would apologize to you, set up another date and hoses you again. And you would fall for it, because what get you hard faster than a desperate woman that needs your help Phantom? I’m sure you would have been seeing that hobby-odometer turnover with all the extra miles you would have been envisioning.

I also think that it’s special when you can have as friend after spending multiple 24 hr bookings for years. Personally, if I don’t think of her as a friend after meeting one I won’t see her. So we have come to a bit of an inconsistency. 24-hour dates imply, indeed necessitate, that development of the personal relationship. So the fact that just one of these has become your special friend is should be computed in a new average such as 1 for 12. So you must admit that you choose primarily for the service provided and care minimally for the how the provider feels about you. If an escort doesn’t tell me I’m full of shit at least once the first meeting, well…

This isn’t some super GFE I am talking about. All I ask for is for the other person to act like herself so I can be myself. As a matter of fact, the women I see none of them are favorites on any boards. No, this isn’t the dreaded “unobtanium” any of you can be with them for the money (remember that’s the point). It’s because some people have become so enamored of the internet and the information posted in reviews and via email that they want nothing to risk. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. There are many more gems out there that exist unharvested but for the lack of adventure and innate empathy for the escort. Ok, not everyone wants to work that hard for their thrills. The ones that score everytime on the visceral physical sex are easy to find.

Money also shouldn't be a factor in this case because for a guy that spent 20k in one for the most expensive night, it's a drop in the bucket (only for the best of course). Couple that with the fact that the escort normal going rate is 4$ or 12$ and it does not seem that generous. I still believe that Phantom chose her because he thought she was vulnerable and needed the money and would provide that extra special service.

“Maybe sub-consciously it was a gift.” Too funny, you don’t even know how big of an ass you sound like. And if there is any karma you will find out.

J’s age was one of the things you mentioned as a factor for choosing her. No doubt she is a looker, but she isn’t that great. One of the things that almost always make clients choose a younger provider is the hope that will not have been ruined by the business. How many times was that said in JAG about numerous young women. You know, get some while there is still something worthwhile to get. A younger provider is also naïve about the business this is also a plus for many clients. You have 30+years on her backed by the power of the Internet, you’re a sure winner. And you mean to tell me that J is the only one that does the things you like.

If she would have provided you with your basic (mindblowing, after all she is auditioning for the big leagues here) physical service you wouldn’t have cared if she was detached and never have posted this. How bad/good did her service need to be? Bad for the pantheon of 12 providers? Or not up to your lofty standards? Maybe she f-ed your brains out but she just doesn’t measure up.

I am not defending what J did. As a matter of fact whether or not I am defending her really doesn’t matter does it? She probably doesn’t want to read it and I’m not doing it for “mileage”. I don't want her to do anything other than what she has been doing when I see her. And any new customers would have to be a hearty soul after all the negative stuff posted about her. Think about it. The more she gets trashed online the more valuable a customer I become. The princess has never wanted to be rescued. Period. I am hardly a knight in shining armor. Fuck, I pay for sex how cool is that?

I question your motives and actions in choosing her. Be honest and admit it. Of course you ignored history. You did it for exactly the reasons I said, you saw her as pliable to your money and inside info.

Actually, I do give J ringing endorsements. But, your mileage may vary. Haha. But perhaps the ferocity of a good experience and the horror of a bad one are most likely symptomatic of her dislike of us. She really is a transparent person. Good or bad.

Anyway, thanks for the valuable information warning us away from J. And thanks for keeping all your mind-blowing escorts to yourself. Because what really counts is that you are able to tell us about it anyway. All in the spirit of the hobby and ego.

And Phantom, as the most vocal advocate of the formation of the NJ board, you really should be telling us more than war stories. Release some of your knowledge.

I forgot. You don’t have any. You hobby rarely outside the pantheon by your own admission and all the special ones are retired. Any other information you have is heresay, which as we all know passes for the truth online (re: Carl/Beth).

By the way, besides breaking all the commandments (including the OP which precipitated SB going up the mountain to receive them) Beth posted first hand knowledge. Never practice thread deletion. For J or anybody else. The only way people will stop posting out-of-bounds topics will be if it is too painful to go over it. And for what it’s worth, this board wants information freedom, just look at the activity.

Feel free to comment on me or my agenda. I am not the most introspective person and I would welcome some insight. I won’t take it as an attack.

[Ozzy]

i thought beth went way over the line especially considering she wasn't even mentioned. i thought her post was provider/business suicide. you won't get too many new clients with posts like that. at least she knew enough to announce her retirement.


wsb...

the reason for the "J" thing was posted on jag and UG in an earlier thread and since there are so many new members here i think it's best not to post the reason(it would defeat the purpose)....though i think it is pretty obvious why some people out of respect for J's privacy don't post her full name. at least she learned and uses becka and janine on her other ads.

was that enough hints.......

[ew]

I mention Beth because her feelings are more prevalent than the typical webscort would have anyone believe.

And I disagree onthe retirement, she will rise like the Phoenix from the ashes. Someone probably just contacted her thinking about all the extra mileage already...

FWIW, the use of J is self-imposed. It is not a ban like GC'c name was.

[Carl M]

Originally posted by wsb

Even though I don't care for very many of his posts, I hope CarlM continues to post and doesn't let this bother him. I dislike seeing this sort of thing happen to any john or provider. I suppose it does provide further support for not giving private info to providers (oh, and rent a car next time).

I definitely hope that JC continues to post. UG would be far less interesting without him.

Peace,

WSB [/B]

Thanks for your support WSB, coming from you I take this as a high compliment. Come to the next UG Gig out here in the sticks and I'll buy you a beer! I might be beaten and battered, but Im still here!

[Phantom]

I would just like to thank everybody who posted their thoughts, opinions and comments, whether they be positive or negitive, in this thread or in private emails. I believe it has gotten to the point were no further good can be derived from continued discussion of this matter. There are most likely some of you who will think that I'm just running away, but at times there comes a point when people are so entrenced in their beliefs that no amount of discussion will change their positions. I believe that this thread has reached that point.

Slinky, it would not brother me in the least if you closed this thread.