Does she really like you? [Archive]

BigMadM

03-03-2004, 06:18 AM

just had a great phone call, worth sharing....im such a mofo....
Got an old friend, out of the business, calls me now and then if she knows someone that wants to get back in, or a new girl.
So a couple of weeks ago, she tells me she knows a girl who just wants a few hits, make some dough, and stop. Newbie.
I tell her to give her my ***** addy and my celly, but when she can call me.
She just called, man, I really am not a nice guy.
We chitchatted back and forth,(she has no clue who I am on this site, or even that sites like this exist)
She explained, she understands how this works....she actually did a double with my friend once around year and a half ago for a rich slob..........anyway.......I explain I dont have the money for anything big.....just a few hours one morning.
Shes all for it......she asks me to offer her a price.
I love this game.
I ask her what she thinks it worth, to be nice to me, I wont demand too much.
Shes not sure, but I have to make her some type of offer so she can know what she can expect. One time deal, unless she wants to see me again and vicaversa.

Im so cunning, I say to her what do you earn all week as a receptionist at that nice place you work. She tells me she gets killed after taxes. Once again, Im really cunning, so I say, listen, Ill give you your entire weeks pay, gross.....for just one morning with me, and Ill even pick you up and drop you off back at work if you want to get the second half of the day in.
She tells me she will just take a sick day.
Gross, she says, an entire weeks pay for a few hours with you and you dont want anything kinky?
Just some good ole fun, you can ask ******* if I ever did anything against her wishes. Im not stupid.
I just want to have fun, and if I can have fun 3 times in one morning, Id be really happy and even add some to the pot.
She was elated. Really she said, my gross for the week, and then some.........
She told me her gross is like 482 or something like that.

I told her what a great deal she made, she was tuff to bargain with, she laughed at me.
She asked me again, before I hung up, just spend the morning with you, have some sex, and youre going to give me one weeks of my current salary in cash before taxes and then some?
Yep I said, and ill bring you some gifts, like perfume, because thats just the guy I am. And if you want, Id love to take you out to lunch before we split for the day.

She was thrilled. I explained I have to wait a week or so.
No problem. I dont know whats worse. Me taking advantage of a naive 24 y/o, or her having no problem fucking an old fat guy for money likes its nothing.

BigMadM

03-03-2004, 06:22 AM

will this make her a pro after she fucks me, I wonder?

jseah

03-03-2004, 06:24 AM

yup.....you'll have to start dealing with her agent, who will get a percentage......

justlooking

03-03-2004, 06:28 AM

It'll make her a pro once she realizes how little she's getting.

Slinky Bender

03-03-2004, 06:28 AM

Perhaps he already has.

BigMadM

03-03-2004, 06:44 AM

I was thinking maybe the rich slob she did her *only* commercial show with was JL.......I dont mind. I never cared about sloppy seconds.........

Hey, Im glad she said yes, lets see if she goes through with it.
It took me 4 fucking weeks of phone tag to get one of the ex advertisers on this board to have lunch with me. The blond finally agreed to a cup of coffee(lunch, not sex). My power of persuasion is weak, unless I know I can use money as an alternative. Thats why I always end up fucking some ugly pathetic women with cottage cheese thighs and smelly ass, I just cant get over on the young ones. They dont buy any of my shitty lines.

I should get an award for all the old, take out my uppers, fat bags Ive screwed in the past 5 years.

justlooking

03-03-2004, 06:46 AM

Hey, I pay the strippers I "date" LESS than you're paying this girl.

BigMadM

03-03-2004, 06:48 AM

thankyou JL, after just thinking about all the old bags I bang, and how pathetic I really am, you rub in yet another fact that proves my entire point of being pathetic.

justlooking

03-03-2004, 06:51 AM

We all WISH we could be pathetic like you are.

BigMadM

03-03-2004, 07:04 AM

time to go hunt

April

03-03-2004, 08:13 AM

I scored an 18 out of 20. IMO if the smile does not reach the eyes then it is just a facial expression to make others feel comfortable.
The best thing girls can do in this business is present themselves as happy, healthy, open and honest. Consistancy! sooner or later all the dirty laundry comes out. I mean lets be for real girls. Can any of you actually with a straight face say that they enjoyed the company of each and everyman she has been associated with (in this spectrum).
Even in bars at a "reg" scene. The woman with the smile who is attractive and seems the most approachable with most likely get more attention than a girl sitting at the bar looking miserable, not smiling and giving off body language that she does not wish to be bothered. I also notice that men are much less likely to approach women whom they feel are somehow out of their league. Meaning women who are exceptionally attractive or even beautiful tend to get approached alot less. Confidence is a major factor. As a woman I want to feel like I'm dealing with a confident man, and I think the same might go true inverse.
I've met several men whom if circumstances were right and if this was a different life I'd definately consider seeing them off clock. I have though learned by experience that while there are a few happy endings I am not nieve enough to believe in "Pretty Woman" thats an old ho fantacy. Thankfully many of us tend not to buy into it, but hey there are all types out there looking for different things. I always try to keep my personal life and my "on line life" totally seperate. Meaning I don't get into attatchments plans or promises. I'm not the girl you would have seen if you were looking for a bit more complications than a great no no-nonsence sesion and I never saw anyone more than once a month. I found it tends to keep things in perspective. Not to say that starnger things have not happened, but this is just my take on this. I get my oppinions from my life experiences, what I have seen from different aspects and different roles I played over the past few years weather it be a madam a full time provider or someone who has slowed down enormously and only plays once a month.
So, does she really like you? If this is something that really matters to you then see her the next time your schedules are open for both. If a girl does not like a previous encounter trust me she will not see you again. Just like there are a plethora of pro's out there with numberous resourses to find them, the same holds true for clients looking for action. IMO Any woman who see's a man that she totally disliked in session something is not on the up and up. Other thsn s girl that has no say in what she does or who she does (usually totally controlled by a pimp)
You guys spend your hard earned $ on us. I mean why throw $ away if its something you didnt like the first time? Also for the ladies I recommend giving reduced rates for anyone who see's you on a monthly basis. It's a good way to show your appreciation, because lets face it there are so many of us to choose from. I'm attractive in my 30's, what my reviews reflect are that I'm more of a service oriented gal. Not one that gets a fee for just being beautiful and young. I'm not beautiful, I'm not young. I am attractive. Admit that my body is not as tone as I'd like but I'm also aware that my service standards for my self are above the norn. I'm a service oriented pro. Some get great reviews and alot of biz because they have model like looks, now mix that with excellent service and you got yourself s hell of a girl! So to answer the topic question. Sure there are many of you who I have and do enjoy our time together very much so. your personalities your openness, I believe communication is a very important element in a session. Then again you also need to be able to read your clients. So bottom line, if I invite you back then yeah I liked you. Please believe me that when I for what ever reason make a mental note that I will not see this person I happen to be in session with again no amount of $ can change my mind. I'll be totally professional and never ever rude, but I would recommend that perhaps he might be happier seeing someone else. Now if someone outright asks why I will tell then the exact reason why I don't wish to see them again. Soemtimes the truth hurts and I try to be as specific as possible (like I felt you totally disprespected me in our previous session...yeah sounds funny coming from a hooker!) If it does happen to be a mature person who knows how to actually listen I might give him another chance but I would let him know exactly what I didn't previously like and by pre-warning him he would now have no excuses. Now if after THAT I still found I just didn't like the guy or felt he was a rude self centered jerk I wouldn't see him again. I will not go into the details with him a second time. After that I feel I've gone beyond my duties. Just like us girls we do have bad days as well (although this is no excuse for recieving less than satisfactory service) We however must realize that reguardless of what happened the night before or on the way to an appointment these men are seeing us to escape all the BS they might be getting (or not getting at home) So the last thing they want is a miserable pro who asts as though we are doing them a favor.
my thought and oppinions
A =P

Thorn

03-03-2004, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by slinkybender
PS 16 of 20.

19. Missed only one, the Asian woman. Thought it was real when it was fake.

So inscrutable.

BigMadM

03-03-2004, 08:22 AM

I did a 3 hour session monday morning with a girl I see off and on.
That evening, hours after the session, I saw an ***** from her.
(always gets me nervous, maybe something is wrong)
She jsut wanted to thank me for seeing her that morning. I was reading the short letter and I was feeling good that a 23y/o girl was thanking me. then she added that she really needed the money to finish furnishing her apt. and she was glad I took a long session. They all like my money. She killed me with that last line.
I really honestly thought one of them might actually like the person, not the john.

Fuck it.

April? really, never saw a man more than once a month?

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 08:28 AM

april could you put some line spaces in your posts? they are generally very interesting, however, difficult to follow as a big block. thank you.

April

03-03-2004, 09:15 AM

h. von with all due respect you may have noticed in the past that I rarely respond to your posts. I try not to say anything to someone if I have nothing nice to add. (these days anyway)
I find it funny that I usually pass over your posts because I can't understand what the heck your saying. Might I suggest the same?
Sorry never made it to college, my grammar and yes spelling does admittedly suck. However I will tell you that I am a very intelligent woman and can hold my own very well in a conversation. I just am not so anal as to worry about what people may think of a gramatical error or "line spaces". Perhaps it's best if you and I just don't engage one another. One thing I am not is a hypocrit. You once accused me of not answering one of your questions by questioning me if I only reserve my comments for my clientel, well I'm not here to get clients, I offer no info and I don't wish to promote myself here. I want to be able to be April, me. I'll save my promotions for when I'm actually working and on boards that know me as the person I promote....not April. I'm strictly here because this is where I started, where I feel comfortable, where I can say I generally like a great deal of the posters. I also feel that I have been around here long enough to be able to see through alot of BS. To let the truth be known I like you and respect you as much as I do your other half. Don't know you but I know that I don't like a great deal of what you have to say or the way you appear to feel for what ever reason that you are above anyone here. A self admitted snob I think you referred to yourself. Well I am a person who shoots at the hip and calls it as I see it. I may not have been posting all that much until very recently but I have been skimming the boards and to be totally honest for the life of me I don't know why your here. Oh ....thats right! You bought pussy once! It seems to me that you offer nothing to this board other than correcting other peoples grammar and posts, cheering on idiots who IMO you figure best to follow him or he might just put you on the mess with list. You have a great deal of knowlege in certain aspects but IMO thise aspects have nothing to do with this site. I think sometimes your only purpous here is to step on others so that perhaps you can feel better about yourself.
Disclsimer: Please don't take this as an attack. This is my oppinion, things I've wanted to say but just kept my mouth shut because frankly your not that important to me at all. I just felt it was high time I laid my cards on the table so this way you and I have no misunderstandings. I don't know you but from what I see her I don't really like you. And that is in my right as it is in yours to pass over my hard to read posts. Funny the other dsy I made a post and then made an off handed comment about ok now I'll wait for the grammar and spelling corrections...that my dear was meant for you. I guess you missed that one something tells me you wont miss this. I have no problem with constructive critism but I feel more like to trying to belittle me than help me. So for now on save your breathe. If you feel the need to correct my spelling and grammar jsut let me know and I'll send my posts to your for prior approval before I send 'em to Slinkey I'm sure your intelligent enough to realize that was sarcasm.
April =P

p.s. If anyone else has problems readin my posts I appologize but this is me and this is how I write. With plenty of run on sentences, grammatical errors and I notoriously have difficulty spelling certain words.

Confused

03-03-2004, 09:30 AM

Gonna go make some popcorn....anybody want some?

April

03-03-2004, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by BigMadM

April? really, never saw a man more than once a month?

I'm certain in the past that there was one or two that had I not checked myself this may have gotten complicated. I can honeltly say that I'd be able to count one one hand the men I have seen more than once a month over the last year. I have never had the patience or a high BS meter for what it takes to maintain a "sugar daddy" type relationship. What can I say I like my independence. I have never had one, never met someone that I actually thought I wanted to put the time trust and commitment into. If you take a look at that other review site you'll see that I have been slowing down to a crawl this past year. But yeah I very seldom see a guy more than once a month, then again these days I only comeout to play once a month, if at all. Thats not to say that I would NEVER consider it or sugar daddy (lets face it I'm not a teenager anymore folks, long way off in fact lol!) but I can only be around someone that I really want to be around for extended periods of time.

April

03-03-2004, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by Confused
Gonna go make some popcorn....anybody want some?

Don't waste good popcorn. Trust me I stated my oppinion and personally I don't feel there is nothing really left to say on either account.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by April
h. von with all due respect you may have noticed in the past that I rarely respond to your posts. I try not to say anything to someone if I have nothing nice to add. (these days anyway)
I find it funny that I usually pass over your posts because I can't understand what the heck your saying. Might I suggest the same?
Sorry never made it to college, my grammar and yes spelling does admittedly suck. However I will tell you that I am a very intelligent woman and can hold my own very well in a conversation. I just am not so anal as to worry about what people may think of a gramatical error or "line spaces". Perhaps it's best if you and I just don't engage one another. One thing I am not is a hypocrit. You once accused me of not answering one of your questions by questioning me if I only reserve my comments for my clientel, well I'm not here to get clients, I offer no info and I don't wish to promote myself here. I want to be able to be April, me. I'll save my promotions for when I'm actually working and on boards that know me as the person I promote....not April. I'm strictly here because this is where I started, where I feel comfortable, where I can say I generally like a great deal of the posters. I also feel that I have been around here long enough to be able to see through alot of BS. To let the truth be known I like you and respect you as much as I do your other half. Don't know you but I know that I don't like a great deal of what you have to say or the way you appear to feel for what ever reason that you are above anyone here. A self admitted snob I think you referred to yourself. Well I am a person who shoots at the hip and calls it as I see it. I may not have been posting all that much until very recently but I have been skimming the boards and to be totally honest for the life of me I don't know why your here. Oh ....thats right! You bought pussy once! It seems to me that you offer nothing to this board other than correcting other peoples grammar and posts, cheering on idiots who IMO you figure best to follow him or he might just put you on the mess with list. You have a great deal of knowlege in certain aspects but IMO thise aspects have nothing to do with this site. I think sometimes your only purpous here is to step on others so that perhaps you can feel better about yourself.
Disclsimer: Please don't take this as an attack. This is my oppinion, things I've wanted to say but just kept my mouth shut because frankly your not that important to me at all. I just felt it was high time I laid my cards on the table so this way you and I have no misunderstandings. I don't know you but from what I see her I don't really like you. And that is in my right as it is in yours to pass over my hard to read posts. Funny the other dsy I made a post and then made an off handed comment about ok now I'll wait for the grammar and spelling corrections...that my dear was meant for you. I guess you missed that one something tells me you wont miss this. I have no problem with constructive critism but I feel more like to trying to belittle me than help me. So for now on save your breathe. If you feel the need to correct my spelling and grammar jsut let me know and I'll send my posts to your for prior approval before I send 'em to Slinkey I'm sure your intelligent enough to realize that was sarcasm.
April =P

p.s. If anyone else has problems readin my posts I appologize but this is me and this is how I write. With plenty of run on sentences, grammatical errors and I notoriously have difficulty spelling certain words.
ok. i was just asking to make it easier to read. i have never even considered correcting your grammar or spelling. i would never correct the grammar or spelling of someone who clearly just hasn't had the education. it would be wrong. but thanks anyway.

hvb

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by Confused
Gonna go make some popcorn....anybody want some?
hey i would never pick on someone like her. don't you get it? i'd much rather pick on you.

April

03-03-2004, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
.................. i would never correct the grammar or spelling of someone who clearly just hasn't had the education. it would be wrong. but thanks anyway............hey i would never pick on someone like her. don't you get it?

hvb

I think you just proved my point. Thank you.

fumpton

03-03-2004, 10:57 AM

Anyone else get turned on by April blasting HVB with both barrels?

BigMadM

03-03-2004, 11:01 AM

No, it kinda dissapoints me because I hate to think anyone would question anyones reasons for posting here.
Its not only about pussy eating and ass fucking.
There are topics where intellilgent people offer very interesting views, unlike my rants and complaints.
Its good to see views from all sides, no matter what reasons they have to post here.
If the moderator has a problem with someone, hell toss them as he has in the past.
I dont get why anyone questions ones rights or reasons to post on a PUBLIC message board.

Its best to ignore comments from people you dont like. Critisism is something that comes with posting on a PMB, it took me long enough to understand to bypass most of it.

alterego

03-03-2004, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by BigMadM
my rants and complaints.

IMHO, your rants and complaints are the best reading on this board.

æ

alterego

03-03-2004, 11:06 AM

With the possible exception of Vanessa when she's doing her psychotic-bitch thing.

æ

April

03-03-2004, 11:07 AM

Mike your 100% correct it IS best to ignore people that you really have nothing nice to add to. However after repeatedly ignoring and then being questioned as to why I was ignoring her, I felt it was high time to share why.

justlooking

03-03-2004, 11:21 AM

BMM is like a god.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 11:28 AM

Ditto.

April: I cannot ever recall asking you anything except to put spaces in your posts. If that's not possible, that's fine.

Thanks BMM, you're a real standup guy.

April

03-03-2004, 11:30 AM

do a search if you don't believe me. I don't come out with this stuff out of the blue. Contrary to what you make think of "someone like me" I have a life.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 11:32 AM

No. But, it's okay. It doesn't matter. Really.

The only thing I currently think of someone like you is that I would like to read your posts more carefully.

April

03-03-2004, 11:33 AM

In the scheme of things no it really doesn't.

Slinky Bender

03-03-2004, 11:35 AM

Boy, I'm in Cuba, and no Kimmie in sight..................

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 11:37 AM

spit-take.

justme

03-03-2004, 11:40 AM

Don't you see how it's incredibly presumptuous (if not, as mentioned, insanely ironic) of you to ask someone to modify their posting styles so that you can better understand what they write?

Moreover, the lack of grace that you display here reminds me of that of Judge Crater in his argument (http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=132795#post132795) with Kimmie (which I'm sure you'll remember as it was thread drift in his argument with you.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 11:44 AM

justlooking

03-03-2004, 11:45 AM

Unnecessary DITTO to justme.

And if you piss off somebody great like April, it should at least make you think about what it is you do that gets those reactions (especially in a case like this one where you clearly didn't even mean to be critical).

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 11:46 AM

your ditto is misplaced but i get it. i stand corrected. i think what i do to get those reactions has less to do we me than incipient mental illness.* (but i know you won't like that analysis.)

*look at the length and breadth of the posts today.

justme

03-03-2004, 11:47 AM

What HvB might have meant when she made her first post:

April, I think your posts are really great and I really enjoy hearing your thoughts and perspective. Unfortunately, it's not easy for me to read them quickly. It would help me out if you seperated some of your thoughts with line breaks.

What April might have intereperated when she read it:

Look, I know you aren't very educated, but could you at least try to punctuate your posts. I'm really smart and even I have a difficult time making out what you mean.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 11:48 AM

aside from enjoy which is a little too strong, i think that's right. am curious is more like it.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 11:51 AM

addenda to justlooking:

i know how much you like her posts and why. but, let me tell you i have never criticized (or even thought much about her). this is the truth. she reminds me of so many of the women strolling the east village, it's not that interesting for me. what did make me interested is your responses to her, and i tried to read them to see what that was about.

justme

03-03-2004, 11:51 AM

(I'd agree with the sentiment that the response wasn't proportional.)

((But when two people are communicating, they have to meet somewhere in the middle of their preffered style.))

(((It's always been my philosophy to stretch as far as I can.)))

justme

03-03-2004, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by justlooking
Unnecessary DITTO to justme.

It's probably too late to ditto your praise of Mike for that really, really great post of his up there.

justlooking

03-03-2004, 11:53 AM

The ironic thing is that as I was reading the April post that started all this -- which, BTW, I thought was a really great post, but Kimmie taught me how condescending it sounds when I keep saying that to prostitutes (and April taught me what an awful pun she'll respond with if I apologize for seeming condescending) -- I thought, "God, this would be a lot easier to read if April would just skip some lines between her paragraphs."

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by justme
((But when two people are communicating, they have to meet somewhere in the middle of their preffered style.)) i was trying to communicate. i think that there was an expectation of criticism there, and so that's how it was imputed. i would never criticize somebody whose attempts are so genuine.

justlooking

03-03-2004, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
i have never criticized (or even thought much about her).

That's my point, hvb. Think about why someone you've never even criticized would overreact so much to your saying something that isn't even really a criticism.

justlooking

03-03-2004, 11:56 AM

(Just as a completely presumptuous expression of opinion about etiquette, unnecessarily adding something like "even thought much about her" and talking about another poster like she isn't even here doesn't help.)

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by justlooking
The ironic thing is that as I was reading the April post that started all this -- which, BTW, I thought was a really great post, but Kimmie taught me how condescending it sounds when I keep saying that to prostitutes (and April taught me what an awful pun she'll respond with if I apologize for seeming condescending) -- I thought, "God, this would be a lot easier to read if April would just skip some lines between her paragraphs."
of course you did.

with respect to kimmie teaching you something.

i think it's possible to learn something here. one thing i have learned is to be more lucid, because posters hereupon don't like the kind of writing and/or conversation that say my friends might. (i always think of the part in quiz show where ralph fiennes is with his family. you know what those kinds of roundtable discussions are like.) so, listen. maybe april can't learn to spell or better grammar or punctuation, that's fine. but if some thing like just breaking up her paragraphs would enable people to hear her more clearly, isn't that useful knowledge.

as you say, i really didn't mean it as criticism, moreover, i have never seriously considered criticism of her. what piqued my interest way your kudos. and frankly, i think those are interesting as well.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by justlooking
(Just as a completely presumptuous expression of opinion about etiquette, unnecessarily adding something like "even thought much about her" and talking about another poster like she isn't even here doesn't help.)
but i'm responding to her allegations of a perceived barrage of attacks.* i think even you would agree that that's just not been the case.

*made even more ludicrous by the assertion that i would correct her grammar and punctuation. i think you KNOW i would never do that.

moreover, maybe i have a temper. that would be true.

justme

03-03-2004, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
The ironic thing is -- I thought, "God, this would be a lot easier to read if April would just skip some lines between her paragraphs."

Well, yeah. And my posts would be easier to read if I shortened my senetences (and dropped all the damned parens). And Mike's posts would be easier to read if he had some kind of paragraph structure. And Slinky's posts would be easier to read if he spoke in English as opposed to that language he uses that looks remarkably like English.

justlooking

03-03-2004, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
but i'm responding to her allegations of a perceived barrage of attacks.* i think even you would agree that that's just not been the case.

*made even more ludicrous by the assertion that i would correct her grammar and punctuation. i think you KNOW i would never do that.

moreover, maybe i have a temper. that would be true.

THAT'S MY POINT. WHY WOULD SHE EXPECT THAT FROM YOU, TO THE POINT WHERE SHE PERCEIVES IT WHERE IT DOESN'T EVEN EXIST?

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by justme
Well, yeah. And my posts would be easier to read if I shortened my senetences (and dropped all the damned parens). And Mike's posts would be easier to read if he had some kind of paragraph structure. And Slinky's posts would be easier to read if he spoke in English as opposed to that language he uses that looks remarkably like English. it's not the same thing. it's relatively quick fix with a big payoff.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
THAT'S MY POINT. WHY WOULD SHE EXPECT THAT FROM YOU, TO THE POINT WHERE SHE PERCEIVES IT WHERE IT DOESN'T EVEN EXIST?
i have an answer, you're not going to like it.

(actually i have 2 answers. 1 you know. 1 you won't like.)

justlooking

03-03-2004, 12:03 PM

With all due respect -- and that's a genuine, not a rhetorical, "with all due respect" -- I also think it would be wrong.

justme

03-03-2004, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
i was trying to communicate. i think that there was an expectation of criticism there, and so that's how it was imputed.

If you really do know many women like April than you had to have known the way your tone would be interperated.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 12:06 PM

well, i though the relative politeness and mildness of the request would be well recieved. i mean sometimes you can ask somebody like that a neutral question and they go off. but there are mitigating factors, one of which i've named, some of which i decline to name. if jl is arguing a purely rational response, i would beg to differ.

justme

03-03-2004, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
it's not the same thing. it's relatively quick fix with a big payoff.

For some reason I think it might be appropriate to say that I never really had a big problem with the HvB 'esoteric' posting style.

justlooking

03-03-2004, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
what piqued my interest way your kudos. and frankly, i think those are interesting as well.

The way I see it -- and I don't claim perfect self-awareness, so I may well be wrong -- I appreciate any writing by the supply side that I think is an honest statement about their work and how they feel about it. Because that is the one thing I can get from a site like this -- but it's rare so rare -- that I can't get anywhere else.

(I mean, aside from that, mixed boards are a bullshit waste of time, IMO.)

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
With all due respect -- and that's a genuine, not a rhetorical, "with all due respect" -- I also think it would be wrong.
i'm not so sure you know what i would say. the one you know, you KNOW. first of all they are intertwined. second of all, it's more complex than simple "board personality."

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
The way I see it -- and I don't claim perfect self-awareness, so I may well be wrong -- I appreciate any writing by the supply side that I think is an honest statement about their work and how they feel about it. Because that is the one thing I can get from a site like this -- but it's rare so rare -- that I can't get anywhere else.

i could not agree more. that is why i said what i said. but i have news for you, you could get it elsewhere. but it requires a little ftf in a noncommercial setting of course.

justme

03-03-2004, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
well, i though the relative politeness and mildness of the request would be well recieved.

Really? Because as soon as I saw it, I knew exactly how it would be received.

justlooking

03-03-2004, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
well, i though the relative politeness and mildness of the request would be well recieved. i mean sometimes you can ask somebody like that a neutral question and they go off. but there are mitigating factors, one of which i've named, some of which i decline to name. if jl is arguing a purely rational response, i would beg to differ.

What I'm arguing is, think about what it is about your prior posts (especially the ones directed to posters like Kate Courtesan and Cat Ballou) that would predispose someone to take the post that started this dust-up the wrong way.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by justme
Really? Because as soon as I saw it, I knew exactly how it would be received. that's interesting.

justlooking

03-03-2004, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by justme
Really? Because as soon as I saw it, I knew exactly how it would be received.

And so did I.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
What I'm arguing is, think about what it is about your prior posts (especially the ones directed to posters like Kate Courtesan and Cat Ballou) that would predispose someone to take the post that started this dust-up the wrong way. kate courtesan was a very intelligent woman. smarter than i.

cat ballou was a completely different situation as you well know.

i would think someone with years of experience in customer service would be able to discern the difference. but, perhaps there is a difference if your customer service is limited to a single gender. i know what you are saying, but i think you're wrong. now you're being condescending. i don't really think she is as obtuse as you imply.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
And so did I.
maybe one or both of you could articulate why. i think unlike you especially jl, i treat supply-side equally. for example, if i couldn't follow one of either or your posts, i would say so.

neither of you could possibly be supporting special treatment could you? or maybe you are.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by justme
For some reason I think it might be appropriate to say that I never really had a big problem with the HvB 'esoteric' posting style. of course not. that had more to do with me having fun than anything else. like jl's using like or multiple parens or whatever.

April

03-03-2004, 12:27 PM

My perception of statements like " people like you" girls like you" "someone not educated like you" I do take as condesending I mean who the F are YOU? You don't know me never met me.
You once questioned me as to why I (usually) do not respond to you. Maybe you don't remember it but I do. Well now you know why. Had the very same request came from someone who IMO did not have the same snobbish queen shit attitude. Someone who makes a habit of correcting people, someone who either due to my own stupidity or the fact that they try (a bit too hard imo) to sound intelligent that a great deal of people have commented on the fact that they can not understand what the heck you are talking about..... I wouldn't had even wasted the bandwidth.
Your previous statement proves to me that you haven't an iota of knowlege about me. You htink only because your a woman and not my usual customer base that I speak up? Your sadly mistaken. I speak up when I feel the need to defend myself, or when a person such as yourself is trying in a tounge in cheek way to put me down. I take and have taken constructive critisism maybe more than anyone else on here. Maybe you need to go back to the begining of things so you know exactly who and "what kind" and the "type of people" your speaking with and correcting before you shoot yourself in the foot.

justlooking

03-03-2004, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
maybe one or both of you could articulate why. i think unlike you especially jl, i treat supply-side equally. for example, if i couldn't follow one of either or your posts, i would say so.

neither of you could possibly be supporting special treatment could you? or maybe you are.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that April's supply-side.

I'd expect a similar overreaction from most of the consumer-side posters here.

Confused

03-03-2004, 12:33 PM

Let me wiegh in on a couple of points. My perspective won't surprise anyone.

1 - Kudos to BMM

2 - Agree with AE (and I imagine many, many posters and lurkers here) that BMM's posts are a reason many tune in, and I'm not just talking about the reviews.

3 - While reading many of April's posts today I had the same reaction as HVB. However, if I were interested in what April had to say, I would have taken the time to read her posts carefully rather than ask her to change her posting style. This statement isn't a slight at April, I simply don't read post when they are written in a style that makes reading work (I have a job, UG is entertainment).

4 - I think HVB didn't expect that reaction and I think April over-reacted. The question is why did she over-react. I hazard to guess that whether intentional or not, for some reason HVB likes to go after female posters, whether it be because she wants to demonstrate what she percieves as intellectual superiority or because she can be a bit of a bully, or for a myriad of other reasons, of which only she knows the answer for sure.

5 - HVB, you can spank me anytime. My bottom is firm but gives just enough.

Confused

03-03-2004, 12:35 PM

Ugh, wrote the above long post before I read april's post. Time to go make some more popcorn.

justlooking

03-03-2004, 12:40 PM

OK, to stop being so Socratic and gnomic:

hvb has this history of attacking posters not on the basis of their ideas themselves but rather their analytic skills and writing style. I've often said I think such attacks are completely inappropriate. And of course they come across as condescending, supercilious, all the other words you can think of like that. And they build up a lot of bad will -- and not just among the victims of the attacks and people who like them.

When you have a history of such posts, then obviously a fairly anodyne suggestion about formatting is going to cause an overreaction. Because the person who receives it is gonna view it as being a continuation of the previous stuff.

April

03-03-2004, 12:46 PM

Exactly. Now had I went to college instead of my child perhaps I could have worded it so eloquently. But then..............you know "girls like me" are lucky if we can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. Gee, and I even understood what you meant. Well slap my ass and call me shorty!

Confused

03-03-2004, 12:53 PM

Since the edit time ran out, I want to be clear that #3 in my post above was not a slight at april when I said 'if i were interested in what april had to say'. To be clear, I wasn't judging your persepective or intelligence, merit, worth, etc.

Confused

03-03-2004, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by April
Exactly. Now had I went to college instead of my child perhaps I could have worded it so eloquently. But then..............you know "girls like me" are lucky if we can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. Gee, and I even understood what you meant. Well slap my ass and call me shorty!

April, you have a child of university age?!? Never would have thought it by looking at you.

Then again, as much as I hate to admit it to myself, I guess I could have one that age also (but I still feel like a kid)

dumbslave

03-03-2004, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by justme
Don't you see how it's incredibly presumptuous (if not, as mentioned, insanely ironic) of you to ask someone to modify their posting styles so that you can better understand what they write?

Moreover, the lack of grace that you display here reminds me of that of Judge Crater in his argument (http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=132795#post132795) with Kimmie (which I'm sure you'll remember as it was thread drift in his argument with you.

jm:

I recall having fun writing that. I think it's worth repeating.

"HVB:

jl's got it right. For you, however, I shall always be your misogynistic zen master ready to slap you in the back of your head when you purport to be thinking.

You know nothing about humility or awe or sex or death or anything really that I can tell. Your posts, taken as a whole, are a chaos of unstrung
ancedotal popcorn torn from a Christmas tree and laying about on the floor. You lack the ability to string these bits of popcorn together into a cohesive whole or vision of life.

You have no code. You lack courage. You are merely frivolous and given to fits of iconoclastic prosody.

You do not have the ability to take other minds further or focus. I am your superior in all these things. It is just the way it is.

Best, etc.

Judge Crater"

HVB:

The Fauntleroy doctrine is only applicable to the judgements of sister states, not the ravings of disturbed narcissists on whoreboards. Do try and remember that in your day to day life.

justme

03-03-2004, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
neither of you could possibly be supporting special treatment could you? or maybe you are.

Everyone gets special treatment.

I try to take into account how people will interperate what I have to say before I say it.

justlooking

03-03-2004, 01:16 PM

DITTO to that, too.

justme

03-03-2004, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
OK, to stop being so Socratic and gnomic:

There is that. But to be completely fair, I don't think that's all there is.

alterego

03-03-2004, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by justme
Everyone gets special treatment.

heh heh

æ

justlooking

03-03-2004, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by justme
There is that. But to be completely fair, I don't think that's all there is.

No, I was talking about my own previous contributions to this discussion.

justme

03-03-2004, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by justme
There is that. But to be completely fair, I don't think that's all there is.

Because April's post in reply (and even her subsequent posts) have been too defensive, even taking into account HvB's offensiveness (in other threads).

justme

03-03-2004, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
No, I was talking about my own previous contributions to this discussion.

I was addressing the entire post even though I only quoted the first line.

Slinky Bender

03-03-2004, 01:31 PM

boy is that thread title getting ironic.

justlooking

03-03-2004, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by justme
Because April's post in reply (and even her subsequent posts) have been too defensive, even taking into account HvB's offensiveness (in other threads).

But we both saw it coming . . . .

I think this is a case of birds coming home to roost. I say that without joy. I like hvb as a poster, and obviously agree with BMM. I just wish she wouldn't create a situation where this stuff happens.

justme

03-03-2004, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
I think this is a case of birds coming home to roost. I say that without joy. I like hvb as a poster, and obviously agree with BMM. I just wish she wouldn't create a situation where this stuff happens.

People will hate me for this post, but we both know that one of the burdens of being relatively well educated is that you have to go out of your way to not completely alienate people who may feel insecure when they're talking to you. It's a burden that I accept happily because I know that it's better not to chase away people in my life solely on the basis of their formal education. On the other hand, I doubt I'll ever be able to swallow the pill that says that I am in some way responsible for the initial insecurity.

PJ can stop laughing now.

justlooking

03-03-2004, 01:47 PM

Who knows? Maybe that's why I say "like" all the time? Cuz it permits me to get away with "anodyne"?

(Maybe what this is all about is that I'm a trial lawyer and hvb is corporate.)

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by April
My perception of statements like " people like you" girls like you" "someone not educated like you" I do take as condesending I mean who the F are YOU? You don't know me never met me.
You once questioned me as to why I (usually) do not respond to you. Maybe you don't remember it but I do. Well now you know why. Had the very same request came from someone who IMO did not have the same snobbish queen shit attitude. Someone who makes a habit of correcting people, someone who either due to my own stupidity or the fact that they try (a bit too hard imo) to sound intelligent that a great deal of people have commented on the fact that they can not understand what the heck you are talking about..... I wouldn't had even wasted the bandwidth.
Your previous statement proves to me that you haven't an iota of knowlege about me. You htink only because your a woman and not my usual customer base that I speak up? Your sadly mistaken. I speak up when I feel the need to defend myself, or when a person such as yourself is trying in a tounge in cheek way to put me down. I take and have taken constructive critisism maybe more than anyone else on here. Maybe you need to go back to the begining of things so you know exactly who and "what kind" and the "type of people" your speaking with and correcting before you shoot yourself in the foot.

I'm not certain that I can respond, but I'll try.

I have no recollection of asking you that. Maybe I did. I don't remember if you answered. If you did, I don't remember what the answer was.

I think if you read this thread carefully, you'll see the intent was not to put you down. I reiterate, I have been far harsher on male posters. Moreover, it wasn't even meant as constructive criticism, I was merely being selfish. I wanted to read the post.

With respect to type of people or kind of people. First of all, if you display yourself in the manner you do on the internet, a TREMENDOUS amount of information can be gleaned from that. There are things that are clear about you from your appearance for example -- which I decline to articulate because it will embarass you -- that make certain stuff clear to me. To deny or ignore that, imo, would be doing yourself a great disservice. It's pretty brave, but it is what it is.

If in fact, you cannot distinguish what I said to you, from, for example, what I said to someone else that's just too bad. I can't help you there.

Confused

03-03-2004, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by justme
People will hate me for this post, but we both know that one of the burdens of being relatively well educated is that you have to go out of your way to not completely alienate people who may feel insecure when they're talking to you. It's a burden that I accept happily because I know that it's better not to chase away people in my life solely on the basis of their formal education. On the other hand, I doubt I'll ever be able to swallow the pill that says that I am in some way responsible for the initial insecurity.

PJ can stop laughing now.

Not hating you for the post but this is bullshit.

Again, this is my take on it but its very presumptive to think that you can alienate people or make them feel insecure by virtue of your advanced degrees. Furthermore, its pandering to them to take your level of conversation down a notch, and therefore, insulting.

I've known many people who could speak circles around me without having gone beyond sixth grade, in fact, many of them are related to me.

An ability to express oneself is not solely tied to the amount of letters that follow their surname, its also tied to their thirst for knowledge and curiousity, be it books, culture, films, or the world in general.

I stated in another post that a definition of being a gentlemen is to be able to make kings and queens as comfortable around you as day laborers. That is done, among other ways, by leaving any pretense you may have at the door and finding a common and respectful ground upon which to stand with the person you're conversing with. It isn't done by "talking down or up".

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
This has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that April's supply-side.

I'd expect a similar overreaction from most of the consumer-side posters here.

yes it does. you kowtow to supply-side for reasons i think i know. there would be a similar overeaction from certain parties with certain interests on consumer-side.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by Confused
I hazard to guess that whether intentional or not, for some reason HVB likes to go after female posters, whether it be because she wants to demonstrate what she percieves as intellectual superiority or because she can be a bit of a bully, or for a myriad of other reasons, of which only she knows the answer for sure.
i really don't think that's right. as far as i remember: kate courtesan and that was resolved. if you are judging by cat ballou, i only said it out loud.

pjorourke

03-03-2004, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by justme
PJ can stop laughing now. snicker, snicker

Hey confused. Does that popcorn have butter?

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by justme
Because April's post in reply (and even her subsequent posts) have been too defensive, even taking into account HvB's offensiveness (in other threads). yes. the most interesting thing to me about april's reply is that she barely made my radar screen heretofore, but i had made hers. that's very interesting.

pjorourke

03-03-2004, 02:00 PM

Question for the cosmologists in the audience. Is the earth the center of the universe or is it the sun?

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 02:02 PM

NOYL

03-03-2004, 02:02 PM

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
(Maybe what this is all about is that I'm a trial lawyer and hvb is corporate.) too late i've come over to the dark side.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by NOYL
It's pretty hard not to notice the stone in your shoe or the burr under your saddle. i wish i knew what this meant. i'm interested in what i'm interested in. this is entertainment.

pjorourke

03-03-2004, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
too late i've come over to the dark side. Damn! I hate to imagine what the "light" side looks like.

pjorourke

03-03-2004, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
i wish i knew what this meant. Its an obscure cultural reference.

Confused

03-03-2004, 02:07 PM

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
When you have a history of such posts, then obviously a fairly anodyne suggestion about formatting is going to cause an overreaction. Because the person who receives it is gonna view it as being a continuation of the previous stuff.
too bad for them. listen either you can be thoughtful, analytical and discriminating or choose not be. if you choose not to be it's really not my problem.

also, it is always very difficult for me to discuss this issue with you, because while i admire your intellect etc. a great deal, i also believe part of the responsibility of an intellectual is to standup. clearly, we differ in that respect. moreover, you engage in behaviour perilously close to my own upon occassion, but you count on the fact that it sails over the heads of 99% of the hearers. (believe me i know what that's like.) but, sophisticated careful listeners can read the (and so shoot me) metamessage.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by Confused
Just a couple of more things re the 'bitter pill'.

People's insecurities manifest for many reasons but not often because they are wowed in an instant by what they perceive to be an intellectual giant, unless of course, you are famous for your intellect, and I doubt that this is the case, simply based on your age. Therefore, the statement, and entire post ('burden' and all) makes you sound arrogant, which is surprising. you know, confused, i think it's a little more complicated here. i mean there is the assumption that you have this cadre of educated men, it's not society at large.

justme is as arrogant as jl, ww, sb, you or me. i really don't read these arrogances much differently. there are just different conceits. oth, i would single out crater for arrogance head shoulders above the rest.

jseah

03-03-2004, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by pjorourke
Question for the cosmologists in the audience. Is the earth the center of the universe or is it the sun?

I think neither.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by justme
Everyone gets special treatment.

I try to take into account how people will interperate what I have to say before I say it.

(and the following ditto).

i construe this as dangerously relativistic behaviour.

Confused

03-03-2004, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
you know, confused, i think it's a little more complicated here. i mean there is the assumption that you have this cadre of educated men, it's not society at large.

justme is as arrogant as jl, ww, sb, you or me. i really don't read these arrogances much differently. there are just different conceits. oth, i would single out crater for arrogance head shoulders above the rest.

Concord.

Please read my post in conjunction with the previous response to JM.

If you are concerned about someone's insecurities, its simple, be a gentleman / lady and go out of your way to show them you aren't condescending to them. Of course, there are subjects you may not be able to discuss, just as there are topics I don't discuss with certain friends, mostly for lack of their interest rather than lack of capacity,

BUT

People, unless they are damn stupid, know when they are being condescended and pandered to, and that perpetuates their feelings of insecurity rather than quash it, and that is represhensible.

nb - I am nowhere near as arrogant as the rest of you guys vis-a-vis my own insecurity re my intellect. I don't beleive the hype.

Confused

03-03-2004, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
too bad for them. listen either you can be thoughtful, analytical and discriminating or choose not be. if you choose not to be it's really not my problem.

also, it is always very difficult for me to discuss this issue with you, because while i admire your intellect etc. a great deal, i also believe part of the responsibility of an intellectual is to standup. clearly, we differ in that respect. moreover, you engage in behaviour perilously close to my own upon occassion, but you count on the fact that it sails over the heads of 99% of the hearers. (believe me i know what that's like.) but, sophisticated careful listeners can read the (and so shoot me) metamessage.

1 - some people don't have a choice in being analytical, thoughtful and discriminating.

2 - Didn't MLK say something about a man dying once he becomes silent about the things he should care about?

justlooking

03-03-2004, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
(and the following ditto).

i construe this as dangerously relativistic behaviour.

And I construe it as both common courtesy and the basis of effective communication.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Confused
nb - I am nowhere near as arrogant as the rest of you guys vis-a-vis my own insecurity re my intellect. I don't beleive the hype. i agree with everything preceeding this, all i am saying is that it is hard, and the various over and undercompensations are very evident hereupon.

but as to the quote above, i'd venture that every person named therein holds that view. moreover, i'd offer your reponse "but i've got them fooled" and subsequent posts shows your insecurity and arrogance. i really can't tell much difference among that lot. (actually sb is slightly different, but i wanted to include him because he is very smart.)

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by Confused
1 - some people don't have a choice in being analytical, thoughtful and discriminating.
see now i think that's condescending.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
And I construe it as both common courtesy and the basis of effective communication. and yes,

yet but if you start treating people according to your perception of their abilities, that's really dangerous.

Confused

03-03-2004, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
see now i think that's condescending.

heh

i threw it out there for your reaction.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 02:32 PM

well did i perform as expected? where should i eat tonight?

justlooking

03-03-2004, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
and yes,

yet but if you start treating people according to your perception of their abilities, that's really dangerous.

The fact that you think that's what I'm saying shows how completely insensitive you're being to the probable perceptions of your readers.

You obviously haven't even thought about how it's likely to be taken when you say that some poster "isn't even on [your] radar screen".

justlooking

03-03-2004, 02:34 PM

(What's really ironic is that here I go criticizing your writing style. So that means I stop now. And apologize.)

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
And I construe it as both common courtesy and the basis of effective communication.
o stop it. you do it all the time with all kinds of people. hell if there's anything that 200 large of good education teaches you, it's to read.

Confused

03-03-2004, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
i agree with everything preceeding this, all i am saying is that it is hard, and the various over and undercompensations are very evident hereupon.

but as to the quote above, i'd venture that every person named therein holds that view. moreover, i'd offer your reponse "but i've got them fooled" and subsequent posts shows your insecurity and arrogance. i really can't tell much difference among that lot. (actually sb is slightly different, but i wanted to include him because he is very smart.)

Not sure if you meant holding that same view in connection with arrogance or insecurity or both.

The whoreboard is the only place I can (intentionally) display the insecurity.

'Fooling them' isn't arrogance, its a combination of their own perceptions re my intellect and a bi-product of my covering up the insecurity.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
The fact that you think that's what I'm saying shows how completely insensitive you're being to the probable perceptions of your readers.

You obviously haven't even thought about how it's likely to be taken when you say that some poster "isn't even on [your] radar screen".
this is the way i feel about this:

someone can choose actual discourse. (as i believe we are currently engaged in.) and you can do it mano a mano as well. it doesn't have to be pretty necessarily.

or

a person can overeact, freakout, whatever.

april is not "my audience." i don't play to an audience, although perhaps now that i have come over to the dark side, i will be more conscious of that. she, or anyone for that matter, is welcome to engage or not in discourse.

Confused

03-03-2004, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
well did i perform as expected? where should i eat tonight?

Si. Have you tried Gruppo yet? best italian pizza in NY.

Its a great night to dine and walk around the city. What neighborhood would you like to that in ?

justlooking

03-03-2004, 02:41 PM

That comes perilously close to the kind of boor who asserts it's OK to be rude because it's "honest".

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Confused
Not sure if you meant holding that same view in connection with arrogance or insecurity or both.

The whoreboard is the only place I can (intentionally) display the insecurity.

'Fooling them' isn't arrogance, its a combination of their own perceptions re my intellect and a bi-product of my covering up the insecurity. i was agreeing with your analysis of condescending. no, fooling them isn't, it was what necessitated that you say you were fooling people. it's just like that time i questioned whether you were a lawyer. it's not a criticism. it's just evident.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Confused
Si. Have you tried Gruppo yet? best italian pizza in NY.

Its a great night to dine and walk around the city. What neighborhood would you like to that in ?

ev.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by justlooking
That comes perilously close to the kind of boor who asserts it's OK to be rude because it's "honest".
i really don't know which post you are responding to. but i often am boorish in this respect. (a lifelong battle.) but the good part of being boorishly honest is that you can admit stuff like that.

Confused

03-03-2004, 02:48 PM

then definitely try gruppo on b around 10th, the pizza is very light, very italian, and the salads are very fresh.

If you're in the mood for carribean food, try el cafesito on 9th and c, the food is well prepared and not as greasy as most people are used to when they think p.r. / cuban food, but feel prepared to feel heavy afterwards.

I think I've discussed each place more extensively in the restaurant thread.

Or, you could just stop by my place, throwing some skirt steak on the old george foreman and topping it with home made chimi-churri. Just walk around the neigborhood and, when you smell the steak cooked to medium-rare perfection, just climb up the fire-escape.

dumbslave

03-03-2004, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by April
Well slap my ass and call me shorty!

Great line. Perfect delivery.

I like it so much I'm going to steal it and use it myself some day.

Confused

03-03-2004, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
i was agreeing with your analysis of condescending. no, fooling them isn't, it was what necessitated that you say you were fooling people. it's just like that time i questioned whether you were a lawyer. it's not a criticism. it's just evident.

True 'dat.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Confused
then definitely try gruppo on b around 10th, the pizza is very light, very italian, and the salads are very fresh.

If you're in the mood for carribean food, try el cafesito on 9th and c, the food is well prepared and not as greasy as most people are used to when they think p.r. / cuban food, but feel prepared to feel heavy afterwards.

I think I've discussed each place more extensively in the restaurant thread.

Or, you could just stop by my place, throwing some skirt steak on the old george foreman and topping it with home made chimi-churri. Just walk around the neigborhood and, when you smell the steak cooked to medium-rare perfection, just climb up the fire-escape. yes, thanks (and thanks for the hospitality). i must say my favorite cut. in france il dit "onglet."

dumbslave

03-03-2004, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
i would single out crater for arrogance head shoulders above the rest.

hvb:

The function of whoreboards, especially coed whoreboards, is to preserve the psychological machinery of addiction so that: (i) men can continue ad infinitum to purchase and discuss their purchases of the services of sex workers; and, (ii) women can advertise their availability as sex workers.

Your skill at flattery of those you view as being the elite and constant drawing of attention to yourself partially support this prime directive. Nothing you have ever written or are likely to write requires any heavy lifting.

To the contrary, their addictive predispositions are reinforced by your attentions and lack of substance. As a result, you also have become a provider of erotic services to them.

I would imagine that sex workers instinctively know this about you and view you as an insecure, catty brothel girl on the couch posing for attention during selection.

Since the sex workers here are all much better lays than you'll ever be despite their ever increasing mileage, my recommendation to you is that you let the sex workers work their magic and leave them undisturbed even when they are receiving volumes of attention which you can never hope to warrant.

Due to their possession of skills at self-mangement which you can scarcely begin to understand, they are actually entitled to the attention. They know how to allow a wide variety of men the perception of taking sex with them personally. Sometimes here they even describe truths about human nature based on their experiences and work on developing their ideas.

They are in service of the prime directive. You are only partially in the service of the prime directive.

Think about your place in the world, your function in the play and the play itself.

Best, etc.

Mabel and Eleanor

P.S. My father, God rest his soul, would be proud that I have earned a "most arrogant" award. He was enormously arrogant and aggressive himself. Thank you.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 05:01 PM

impressive attention span this post judgie. upped the depakote?

but that reminds me: thank you to everyone for his/her input.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 05:23 PM

judge:

you stalked and harassed inna.
you stalked and harassed ana.
you probably have stalked and harassed countless other women.
now you have developed an unhealthy obssession with and focus upon me.
let me implore you to get the help you need. this behaviour will certainly end badly for you one day.

April

03-03-2004, 05:46 PM

hv:
once again hv your talking in riddles. If apparently have some type of insult you alluding to. So I'll bite........believe me it would take a whole lot more than the likes of you to embarass me (I believe those were the exact words. Do your damedest cause I'm quite through with this thread as I am through with you. I have no use for you so I won't be responding to you or anymore of your insults. Just what you wanted right? You can argue all by yourself. I know how much you love to see your words written. Thank goodness I don't have to live with you. Are you like this in life? (somehow I highly doubt it)

Confused: Yes my son is a freshman and I shouldn't look old enough to have an 18 year old, I'm really not. I just had him very young. By the time I was his age he was two. You do the math.

In retrospect I did over react. After I wrote the thread I KNEW, I mean I KNEW it was coming. I sat back for quite a few months and just watched. Didn't post and just observed. I think everyone should do it sometime. You get a chance to just sit back as an outsider and watch the board go by. You get to see who is a jerk, who is a wanna be, who is full of it and who is just all talk. (and no, not ALL of these are even directed at hv) I guess my overreaction was a compounded response from all the times I saw her attacking or belittling someone yet I was just in observation mode so I kept quiet. You (HV) have made several remarks after some of my posts, most harmless and non consequential. I never engaged you because I'm not a hypocrit. So yes I can understand that this was not meant as an attack, I can understand yours and others suprise at my strong reaction, and I did over react however I stand by everything I previously said.
A=P

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by April
hv:
1. once again hv your talking in riddles. If apparently have some type of insult you alluding to.

2. Are you like this in life? (somehow I highly doubt it)

3. In retrospect I did over react. After I wrote the thread I KNEW, I mean I KNEW it was coming. I sat back for quite a few months and just watched. Didn't post and just observed. I think everyone should do it sometime. You get a chance to just sit back as an outsider and watch the board go by. You get to see who is a jerk, who is a wanna be, who is full of it and who is just all talk. (and no, not ALL of these are even directed at hv) I guess my overreaction was a compounded response from all the times I saw her attacking or belittling someone yet I was just in observation mode so I kept quiet. You (HV) have made several remarks after some of my posts, most harmless and non consequential. I never engaged you because I'm not a hypocrit. So yes I can understand that this was not meant as an attack, I can understand yours and others suprise at my strong reaction, and I did over react however I stand by everything I previously said.
A=P
1. I don't know what you are talking about here. Is it what you can tell from your online image/reviews/persona?

2. How could I be? It would be too tiring. Although, I am certainly never afraid of a room full of people disagreeing with me.

3. What did you know was coming? I certainly didn't attack back in kind. I perfectly understood. I wasn't really surprised. (I observed a certain amping up in your other responses.)

I'll tell you thing I most disagree with you about:

It's EASY for a woman to start a new career at 35. We are in complete disagreement there.

h. von bingen

03-03-2004, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by April
however I stand by everything I previously said.
In my experience, often a bad thing to say.

jp1064

03-03-2004, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
i would never correct the grammar or spelling of someone who clearly just hasn't had the education. it would be wrong. ;)

dumbslave

03-03-2004, 06:18 PM

Dear Brothel Girl:

Inna contacted me by ****** well two years after her privatization episode to obtain a referral to a good immigration attorney. It can hardly be said that I stalked her. To the contrary, I facilitated her enrichment to the tune of $28,000.
I did this partially out of cynicism, but also with some good intention. Her tale of woe was heartrending as I am sure hombre can attest.

As far as Ana goes, we were getting along fine after I stopped seeing her. Other than public comments (most of which were cordial), there was no contact. When my nephew (who likes her music) informed me that her website had changed late last spring, I checked it out.

I noticed that she had included a description of dosing herself with cough syrup, a most unattractive image for record executives who, no doubt, were already wary of her marketability due to her appearance on Howard Stern and publicizing herself as a prostitute.

I sent her an anonymous ****** which sought no reply. She wrote back directly in a snotty manner. Afterwards, I made a few jokes on UG that lampooned her penchant for vulgarity and criticized her skills at marketing herself. We had one last ****** exchange in which she (again in a snotty tone) wrote that she enjoyed matching wits with me.

I imagine that she did report that I was jealous or obsessed with her or whatever. The truth of the matter, however, was that I was always quite content to let others be obsessed with her. I, in fact, provided ocassionalhobbyist with information to increase and enhance his ardor. Quite soon after, he started that atrocious "Falling in Love with a Provider" thread.

After her reappearance as SB's consort, the fun began. Now I know jl has indicated (well after the fact I would note) that the Satan is real comment stemmed from the Passion of Christ movie and Mel Gibson's role in that movie. I wasn't aware of the movie at the time. I question whether Sod was aware of the movie when he repeated the line in another thread.

I've cited the relevant posts in the transcript I assembled which was copied over into the Sin and Redemption thread by SB. Based on my assessment of the characters involved, I'm "morally certain" that I got it right down pat. There was a lot of "obscure slinkybender posting" going on that day which indicated some coordination of effort.

I would have copped to a charge of third degree sarcasm. (Guilty with an explanation, your honor, etc.) But it was the coordination of effort that pissed me off and made further discussion impossible.

I'm not a nice person when I get pissed off. I'm as snaky and devious and manipulative and treacherous and vindicative as they come. My behavior afterwards showed that. I was all about tactics and strategy and playing games. I'm mean at times and enjoy cruelty in a fight. I won't deny that.

And then there is the fact of LS. I learned quite a lot of interesting things about LS and the elite posters on UG. I discussed the matter with Aristotle. That firmed my belief that a board is supposed to be transparent so that it can function as a market place for ideas and information. I do not believe that UG ever measured up to that standard.

Ultimately, I stopped being pissed off. I'm actually fond of SB and jl and ana and quite a lot of the past and present posters here. I've developed some sense of their characters and how they came to be here.

You, OTOH, will always be a tiresome brothel girl.
I feel no fondness for you.

You do, however, some use in the plot.

Best, etc.

Mabel and Eleanor

BigMadM

03-04-2004, 03:15 AM

Its been my experience that people with so much education, so much smarts, can often come across as condescending.
As a young man, it used to bother me something awful.
Now Im old, and I dont give a rats ass who thinks how smart he or she is.
Regarding this thread, and wheres its gone, I dont think there were any intentional digs made. I think it was all posted with sincerity, maybe a bit on the strong side of constructive critisism.
Its tuff to read what people are like from their postings on a PMB.
Would anyone ever think Im a college graduate from my writing style? Please dont answer that with insults, but Im being honest.

This is not a place for the weak. Eggshells are meant to be stepped on here, and its just better if we take it all lightly sometimes, and just take it for what its worth.

Im not to blame for the next story Im going to tell, this thread sparked the memory last night, but I was passing out at midnight from my prescribed sleeping medicine, so I decided Id wait until morning. All this condescending shit, brought back a memory, although an old one, and a bit cloudy after years of substance abuse, I will just tell another BMM moment. Once again, sorry to bore any of you with it, but this thread reminded me of a day in my life.

h. von bingen

03-04-2004, 03:29 AM

Originally posted by dumbslave
Geezy Sends the Brothel Girl to the Showers
it's stuff like this that gets you in trouble. why do you even think about me? i never think about you.

when you post the things you post; i just see a pattern that is a cause for concern.

(also it doesn't bother me to be called a brothel girl. why should it? it can be honest work.)

h. von bingen

03-04-2004, 03:34 AM

i think it would interesting to examine what triggers your obsessive behaviour. are you just bored unless you have something to hyperfocus upon?

*********

03-04-2004, 04:31 AM

Welcome back Judge, missed you!

BigMadM

03-04-2004, 05:12 AM

I couldnt log back in after writing for so long...damn.....computers...

Thorn

03-04-2004, 05:20 AM

Originally posted by April
I think you just proved my point. Thank you.

April, there are two people inhabiting that physical being.

LeB, who was a tad uncertain of herself but plenty sassy and bright. She had a lot to say, but a very strange way of saying it. Incredibly quirky, she was also interesting. She wasn't aloof, or partcularly condescending. She had the ability to blew though a converstation like fresh air into a stale room.

This (d)evolved into HvB [it is not lost on me that HvB sounds something like what the CDC might tag a new virus]. This entity is not only aloof and condescending, but particularly hostile to certain types of folks she deems deserving of such treatment. Though her means of classifying same, IMHO, are dicey at best. And, man, does she pigeon hole people easily. To boot she is apparently devoid of any sensitivity to the feelings of others. She is callous and haughty in a way LeB never was.

I miss LeB. She was interesting to speak to and I enjoyed chatting with her on the phone, as well as exchanging the occassional ****** and public dialog. Since the emergence of HvB I have forgone the pleasure, as I'm not at all sure we'd get along the way LeB and I use to.

No, April, she doesn't acknowledge degrees from the school of hard knocks of the order possessed by people like you and I. We are forever to be patronized, or ignored, because we lack the ivy league stamp that would indicate we actually have anything on the ball. Our lack of classical education makes us worthy of her pity.

She would never make fun or "pick on someone like us". I am sure some of her best friends are "people like us".

I wonder if they ever get just how degrading that is.

It doesn't matter if they do though, in the long run, does it?

BigMadM

03-04-2004, 05:40 AM

I gotta tell ya, although I dont agree with alot certain people say, I am impressed with their abilities to express themselves so cleary and eloquently.
Thorn, HVB, Wwanderer, PJ, AE, JL,Swope,Judge(although I dont follow everything he posts)just to mention some, C9, Slinky,JM, Im sorry Im missing alot, but it makes this board interesting reading.Im the first to admit I have to crack open my Websters now and then when some of these people post.

BigMadM

03-04-2004, 05:50 AM

BMM-around 1977?
I go down to florida, to visit a relative making a party.
Rich fucker, has a big cabin cruiser, whatever you call them, docked at the Castaways Hotel on A1A
Im staying at fountain bleu(please forgive certain spellings or accuracies(is this a word even?)...its been a long time since this took place but I remember.)
I decide on some free time to visit an old high school acquaintance that landed a job in the Americana, formally the Playboy hotel(Im pretty sure it was called Americana or something close)
I have to wait for him to come into work. Its 2 in the afternoon and he begins at 6.
I have studying to do, so I wait.
Im sititng in the front lounge, and some women in her late 30s asks me if she can share the table. The place was packed and I didnt understant why the lobby was so busy. Alot of south Americans used these hotels in those day, but it was all Americans with books and papers all over the furniture.
Ah, the answer, the Florida State Boards were giving some type of exam, some part to some board, and they were using the ballroom to test in.
anyhoo, Im sitting, and she starts talking to me......this Ann Arbor professor who decided after getting tenure, she wanted a career change. So we sat and here this professor, of English Lit, or some related subject, I dont remember clearly, was talking down to a lowly college subject like myself. She was so condescending, the entire time, even with the waiters, and cocktail waitresses.
She actually corrected my speech when I said who instead of whom, or something like that. It was annoying. but she was quite educated, and thought her shit didnt stink.
She went on and on about how with hard work I guess Id be just like her one day. You get the pic yet?
I was a young man. Thin, long hair, and not interested in this shit.
She made me feel inferior, that much I remember. I was thinking Ill just walk away, but her presence and strong demeanor kept me pinned or trapped should I say in her company.

BigMadM

03-04-2004, 05:58 AM

She was an average women, obviously not a ring on her finger, Geeesh, wonder why. Chubby, didnt understand the meaning of applying maybelline eyeliner, or what Max Factor pancake was really used for. Her method of applying makeup was horrible.
Her dress, well, she was certainly not from ny or florida,
And then, like a boltof lightning, it hit me.
I have to fuck this old woman in order that I make myself feel better about not being as smart or as educated as her.
I have to get her to be my equal. Sex is the only thing I know will bring her down to basics, and then Im on the same level with her.
So, being the sick, addicted bastard I am, even back then, I start telling her, kidding and all, how it really is a turn on for an older woman with such intelligence to even waste her time talking with me. I found her extrememly attractive, and I was suprised that such a nice looking woman of her age is unnattached, being so brilliant and all....I laid it on, and Im sure she saw right through it all. just the change of subject was enough for her to realize something was up.
She dissapeared after an announcement was made, into the ballroom, gotta run she said. Her future career change was in that other room.

BigMadM

03-04-2004, 06:09 AM

Hey, I tried, no damage done, and 45 minutes later, she reappeared, bragging she zapped right through that part, a part that was 2 hours longs, and she finished in 50 minutes or so.
Yeah, she was smart.
She was a bit happier now, but still, that fucking attitude.
I started again with the turnon thing, and she finally broke down and we started talking, really talking. about her boyfriends, the 2 she had. Me, what do I do...........ha....the old bag decides to take the young stud to her room.
Shit, she fucking gets undressed in front of me....me...the teeshirt and cutoffs are off in 6 seconds and I have a hardon because thats what my penis did in those days.
She is wearing this thing. I guess its a panty girdle. I mean its 100 fucking degrees, and shes got layer upon layer of shit on.
She starts peeling this thing off, and lo and behold, let the rolls begin. The belly pops out like a jack in the box. Boooing!
Uh-oh- shes a chubby close to 40 y/o, and now Im not so sure I want to do this.
She gets down to her bra and panties, and tells me shes going to use the shower, how hot it is downstairs...thankgod......and.....I fuck her mostly mish.....but I do lift her chubby legs up over my shoulders at one point, and try to ram my dick into her ass, only to have her protest, but she didnt stop me for a while......I figured if I could fuck her in her ass, shes no better than me....very sick thinking on my part, but thats how I felt at the time.
It was over quick, I was young. She was older, fat, and mediocre in looks, and not very good at sex, or so I thought. But, I managed to fuck this condescending bitch who thought her shit didnt stink. It was an accomplishment for me, not that I think Im better than her, but at that young age, I needed to prove something, and to this day, I dont know what I proved. other than all women need dick once in a while.
She was my first real older girl., although to be honest, she did look young, although not pretty.
I told her when I was leaving, thankyou for that great fuck, we didnt make love or have intercourse, we fucked like 2 dogs in heat. I was a sick puppy back then. Thankgod Im normal now.
There was a bit more, and I dont know why I wanted to tell this story, but all the condescending talk just reminded me of her.
Nothing at all to do with people mentioned here.
Some things spark memories that I cant share with anyone in my life except here. Im sorry to bore some of you.

Hawley Griffin

03-04-2004, 06:15 AM

HvB, I'd watch myself around BMM, if I were you. I get the feeling he wants to fuck you in the ass.

BigMadM

03-04-2004, 06:17 AM

nah, it just sparked a memory, in the life of a sick man.

Thorn

03-04-2004, 06:38 AM

Originally posted by justlooking
BMM is like a god.

????

justlooking

03-04-2004, 06:41 AM

Hey, I was just gonna say it again.

justme

03-04-2004, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by Confused
Not hating you for the post but this is bullshit.

<deleted>

I would have written your post for you about a decade ago and to a certain degree I still agree with it.

The point isn't that everyone that is less educated than will necessarily be defencive about the difference. But it would be foolish to ignore the fact that many people are.

Moreover, it isn't 'pandering' to adopt a communication style that makes sense given the context. I socialize with a tremendously diverse group of people ranging from insulated academics to streetwise drug dealers. It wouldn't make much sense to use a uniform manner of speach with everyone I deal with. It would be stupid to intentionally miscommunicate because I refuse to adopt a style of speech that will be more comfortable to the person I'm talking to. What good would it be to try to make the same math jokes I make with my friend who is a PhD candidate in Physics with my other friend who dropped out of high school after two freshmen years? And what good would it do to make the same sex and drugs jokes vice versa?

I make no value judgements on dialect. To me, the language I learned growing up in my neighborhood is no better nor worse than the one I learned at school at the same time.

I value different kinds of knowledge equally and seek wisdom wherever I can find it.

Unfortunately, society doesn't agree with me and there is a very real stratification of value placed on book knowledge vs. street knowledge and on the Queen's English vs. Calo.

It's precisely because of this social stratification that my dropout friend is likely to feel insecure when talking to my physicist friend, but that the opposite probably wouldn't be true.

Of course, that's ridiculous because the situations are symetric. There are plenty of things that the physicist doesn't know and the other guy does but since they aren't as highly valued by society, the insecurity will run one way.

I reiterate, the insecurity isn't inherent. I do have friend that don't give a rats ass how much more educated someone is than they. Still, it's common enough that it's important to be aware of the phenomenon.

Moreover, you don't want to exacerbate the situation. Perhaps my friend wouldn't be prone to the insecurity but if the three of us are hanging out and I make a series of esoteric math references, the guy is going to start to feel alienated. If, furthermore, I start talking about how smart my friend is because he is researching this and how cool that makes him I will further create problems. Finally, if he sees us talking to a fourth person whose speech I begin to criticise or whose intellectual rigor I question I think that he'd have good reason to believe that I might think less of him because of his background.

On the other hand, if I go out with friends from college it's very likey that we will make esoteric jokes, praise each other's accomplishments, and give each other a hard time about grammar lapses and poor thinking. It's fairly common that we will call each other idiots in various discussions, debates, and arguments.

But I think it would be disasterous to call my other friend an idiot, even if I meant it in exactly the same way I do with my college friends.

As a metaphor, it's precisely why it's OK for me to bitch about being broke when I can't afford to drop a bill on dinner with a group of friends that makes the same amount as I do and it's completely inappropriate to complain in the same situation to someone I know who is unemployed.

It's just not graceful.

You know what, I think all of this was unecessary because I think we fundamentally agree and are just misunderstanding each other because I just read this a second time (and a bit more carefully):

Originally posted by Confused
I stated in another post that a definition of being a gentlemen is to be able to make kings and queens as comfortable around you as day laborers. That is done, among other ways, by leaving any pretense you may have at the door and finding a common and respectful ground upon which to stand with the person you're conversing with. It isn't done by "talking down or up".

And I realized we are roughly talking about the exact same thing.

I don't know how you could call it pretense, however, to acknowledge differences and to adjust behavior accordingly. It's not a matter of talking up or talking down; it's a matter of talking right.

But then, I believe is descriptive rather than proscriptive grammar.

justlooking

03-04-2004, 06:49 AM

FWIW (little or nothing), big DITTO to everything but the last sentence.

justme

03-04-2004, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
i always ask myself, where's the line between condescending and niceness. it's the razor's edge i think.

I find it's easier if you never lose the ability to keep it real.

h. von bingen

03-04-2004, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by Hawley Griffin
HvB, I'd watch myself around BMM, if I were you. I get the feeling he wants to fuck you in the ass. yeah, nah. i just like him.

Dondee

03-04-2004, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by justme
[B.....(((It's always been my philosophy to stretch as far as I can.))) [/B]

Is that what they call the "Slinky's philosophy" ?

Thorn

03-04-2004, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
your ditto is misplaced but i get it. i stand corrected. i think what i do to get those reactions has less to do we me than incipient mental illness.* (but i know you won't like that analysis.)

*look at the length and breadth of the posts today.

Look. You don't have to believe me, and you probably won't, but it is, at least in part, what you do. I mean just look at the response above. Do you really think that anyone having a negative reaction to you is exhibiting the first stages of mental illness? And you don't see how an attitude like that might be considers abrasive? And you don't see how, in having an abrasive attitude, that you might close the circle by creating negative reactions to your posts. And around and around we go.

I've seen, as I stated, the changes over time. While I admit to being mostly self taught I am steeped in the wonderous workings of the dynamic that is laughingly called "human". My education is continuing and the entire greater metropolitan NYC area is my science lab. Thus I hold myself out as something of an expert.

Someday I might even explain what the hell that means, but for now you'll have to take my word for it [or not, as it suits you]. But I will continue to indicate that you have changed, and not for the better, over these last few months only because it is true.

I say so not to be mean spirited, but because I still think LeB is in there someplace and I rather miss her. Plus, I have witnessed HvB roll over some folks that didn't have it coming, not by a long shot. That's always been something that makes the short hairs on the back of my neck stand straight out. I've never been good at keeping my "mouth" shut when I'm feeling like that. [I imagine, if I had better self-control, I'd be able to keep the good face like most folks when faced with something that either rubs me, or just feels, wrong].

Sorry if these seems heavy handed.

h. von bingen

03-04-2004, 06:55 AM

Originally posted by Thorn
. . . I have forgone. . . .
chuckle of the week.

Thorn

03-04-2004, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
aside from enjoy which is a little too strong, i think that's right. am curious is more like it.

Like you might be looking at a hamster in a habitrail, wondering what makes it want to run on the wheel?

Really... that is exactly what that sounds like. [UGH!}

Thorn

03-04-2004, 07:00 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
i was trying to communicate. i think that there was an expectation of criticism there, and so that's how it was imputed. i would never criticize somebody whose attempts are so genuine.

BUT YOU JUST DID!!!!!

YOU communicate. SHE "attempts".

The stench of condescention is appallling.

You still don't see how its you?

justme

03-04-2004, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
i also believe part of the responsibility of an intellectual is to standup.

As long as you are doing so in a way that will matter.

It does you no good to wax intellectually if you're going to so turn-off the people in your audience by what they percieve as a haughty or superior attitude. In fact, you'll likely further sentiments of anti-intellectualism.

All my replies in the Ralph Nadar thread could have been worded in a way that would be completely accurate and completely useless to AE. Moreover, they'd be exactly the way intellectual mathematicians would discuss the problem. By abandoning standards of intellectual mathematic rigor, howver, I think I was able to do far more good than by adhering to them.

justme

03-04-2004, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
i construe this as dangerously relativistic behaviour.

I don't see the danger in acknowledging linguistic realities so long as you don't make value judgements.

Thorn

03-04-2004, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by justlooking
That's my point, hvb. Think about why someone you've never even criticized would overreact so much to your saying something that isn't even really a criticism.

But she is critizing JL. It pours out of her posts in the attitude, phrasing, and choice of certain words.

And its the worst kind because she doesn't even realize she's doing it. She thinks she's actually exhibiting "kindness" of a sort.

Its that same kind of thing that makes certain people I know so much more appreciative of outright bigotry, then certain assumed "kindnesses". At least the former is genuine. The latter comes across as nothing but a thin veneer of civility over what the former just lays out there for all to see.

justme

03-04-2004, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
yet but if you start treating people according to your perception of their abilities, that's really dangerous.

It's dangerous both ways.

Unless you think it makes sense to ask a 90 year old grandma for help carrying your new widescreen up the stairs.

justlooking

03-04-2004, 07:08 AM

You're never gonna get me to agree with you on that (and I still don't think you understand what I was trying to say).

Thorn

03-04-2004, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
that's interesting.

Yes, it is.

Its the difference between knowing books, and knowing people.

Seriously.

justme

03-04-2004, 07:10 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
i really don't know which post you are responding to. but i often am boorish in this respect. (a lifelong battle.) but the good part of being boorishly honest is that you can admit stuff like that.

It is possible to be honest, direct, and at the same time not offend. But it takes grace. And that takes effort.

Confused

03-04-2004, 07:16 AM

JM, now that you've clarified the point, I agree with you for the most part.

I think I stated in one my posts that, in addition to the solution being finding a common ground to stand upon, its also simply a matter of interest. I discuss different topics with different groups of friends, mostly out of where their interest may lie. Sure, its rude to make an esoteric math joke among a group of people when one of them can't get it.

In short, I think I took your initial post to mean that MOST people without a formal education will feel insecure in the presence of a formally educated person, and that as a result, the formally educated person is to adjust his speech in order not to make the less educated person insecure (which, generally will have the opposite effect because its condescending) because most uneducated people are brighter than they are given credit for.

You see, nothing is absolute and everything is a matter of degrees. I'll probably say this many times in future posts: We all bring the the sum of our life experiences to every thought we have. I have formally educated aristocrats and uneducated paupers in my family, most of are able to express themselves and comprehend rather well regardless of their socioeconomic position. Therefore, I don't think of someone as being less intelligent just because they aren't formally educated.

I used the word pretense because its strikes me as false to "dumb-yourself-down" for certain people, which is different than speech / topic adjustment.

Thanks for the clarification.

justme

03-04-2004, 07:23 AM

No, thank you for pointing out my ambiguity.

Thorn

03-04-2004, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by justme
People will hate me for this post, but we both know that one of the burdens of being relatively well educated is that you have to go out of your way to not completely alienate people who may feel insecure when they're talking to you. It's a burden that I accept happily because I know that it's better not to chase away people in my life solely on the basis of their formal education. On the other hand, I doubt I'll ever be able to swallow the pill that says that I am in some way responsible for the initial insecurity.

PJ can stop laughing now.

Ah-hmmm.

In actuality, when one is truly educated... and that means a knowledge of people at least as intensive as one's knowledge of books, it isn't hard at all to communicate with people in such ways as to not alienate them. And there is no insecurity at all.

Point in case. My best teachers were immediately known to me to be more wordly, wise, or both. However, being good teachers they always caused me not to feel insecure in the fact that they knew more then I did, but to feel quite the opposite. Secure in the fact that because they knew what they did they knew enough to comport themselves with decency and understanding. This makes one feel open, and they passed their teachings to me with ease due to this openness they they created.

Teachers who caused insecurity, no matter how worldly [but unwise] never met with the same success.

It is such that I became accutely aware of the difference between knowledge and wisedom.

justme

03-04-2004, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by justme
No, thank you for pointing out my ambiguity.

But it's kind of funny. See, the post I made that you replied to was more or less in direct address to JL. I knew when I wrote it that it could be percieved as arrogant or that I could be percieved of thinking less of less educated people. The thing is, I'm pretty confident that JL wouldn't take that viewpoint because we've traded ideas for close to half a decade and by now he has to know that I don't feel that way. So for the sake of brevity and efficiency, I sacraficed a universal comprehension.

I knew JL would get what I was trying to say (and I'm pretty sure he did), and since it was a direct response, I didn't adjust my speech to a more general audience.

But your reply proves exaclty why it's essential to be as generally accesible as possible in a public forum.

justme

03-04-2004, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by Thorn
Ah-hmmm.

In actuality, when one is truly educated... and that means a knowledge of people at least as intensive as one's knowledge of books, it isn't hard at all to communicate with people in such ways as to not alienate them. And there is no insecurity at all.

If you get to the point where I expound upon my point to Confused and still think we are in disagreement, let me know.

Otherwise... finish the thread before you start replying!

Heh.

Thorn

03-04-2004, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
yes. the most interesting thing to me about april's reply is that she barely made my radar screen heretofore, but i had made hers. that's very interesting.

Yes it is. But you are reading it all wrong.

I have to tell you, and I promise to stop this hit parade shortly, but for a person with so much book knowledge you don't know people very well. [actually though, I find that not atypical of the archetype]

Confused

03-04-2004, 07:29 AM

Hey thorn, can you give us a fucking break and either go back to school or use spellcheck!?!? What the fuck!?!?

j/k

Agree that education isn't only about books, there is a difference betwen education / wisdom and formal education / degrees.

Intelligence is a whole different thing, and there are many different types (athleticism for one, emotional intelligence is another, and on, and on).

Thorn

03-04-2004, 07:33 AM

justme

03-04-2004, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by Confused
Just a couple of more things re the 'bitter pill'.

Since we pretty much agree, let me clarify the burden & bitter pill part.

First burden. Please don't read this in the sense of Rudyard. The burden we have is in some sense unifersal and is a function of our background.

I am just as pissed off when some of my more, um, street smart friends belittle someone else I know for not knowing some slang term (I rememebr comming back from getting a drink and finding some of my friends talking to a rather out of place asscoiate about whether or not he thought it was a good idea to give your woman a pearl necklace) or another as I am in the other direction.

Having extraordinary experience of any type places a burden on us.

Secondly bitter pill. As much as I think that I should try to find common ground and be as comprehensible as possible, I refuse to take much blame when someone becomes unreasonably insecure. I am not about to stop correcting the grammar in outgoing messages from my colleagues simply because they know I went to a more selective University and therefore have a tendency to get defensive about their mistakes.

Thorn

03-04-2004, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
i really don't know which post you are responding to. but i often am boorish in this respect. (a lifelong battle.) but the good part of being boorishly honest is that you can admit stuff like that.

The good thing about being openly brutal is that you can admit to the bodies you've left scattered aimlessly about.

[getting though yet?]

BigMadM

03-04-2004, 07:38 AM

I have an 8 inch penis.

justme

03-04-2004, 07:41 AM

I forgot to say how great that BMM anecdote about the Florida prof was.

Confused

03-04-2004, 07:46 AM

Ditto on the BMM post. The guy is a Great storyteller.

Understand re bitter pill. My objection isn't as to someone being unreasonably insecure, I simply object when anyone perpetuates someone's insecurity because its smacks of cruelty, but then again, this isn't something we disagree about.

Confused

03-04-2004, 07:50 AM

The BMM story reminded me of a story my father told me after reading the Ragman's son by Kirk Douglas, which I haven't read.

Without going into detail, Douglas worked at a a resort upstate that was owned by an openly anti-semetic woman. While bedding her, somewhere in mid-stroke, he let her know she had a jewish cock insider her. It was his way of getting the upper hand.

h. von bingen

03-04-2004, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by Confused
The guy is a Great storyteller.
he so is. i bet he's great to hang around drinking with.

Thorn

03-04-2004, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by Thorn
My education is continuing and the entire greater metropolitan NYC area is my science lab. Thus I hold myself out as something of an expert.

Someday I might even explain what the hell that means, but for now you'll have to take my word for it

BTW, I fully acknowledge how that comment might sound more like it came from a certain 'judge' then from me, so I think I will go ingest some thorezin now and take a nap. :)

BigMadM

03-04-2004, 08:02 AM

I would have rather posted a review today.
I found a 19 y/o nobody heard of.
I was rushing home before to get the cash.
The booking agent told me shes slim, cute and hispanic.
I was in love before I even saw the girl.
Then the booking agent told me one more thing, she wont agree to a bbbj, but she sort of danced around telling me directly on the phone.
This booking agent knows me well. For years.
I want to thank her for her word, and not telling these new girls who I am, and that they will be likely reviewed by me here.
Im pretty sure if the girl knew I was a prominent poster here, she would have agreed to anything to get her name on here.
I wont see this girl now. Its a loss to me, but she made a stand on how she feels about the bbbj thing.

I was close. If anyone ever thinks this board has no power, you are very wrong.
Not the right place for this, but I didnt want the booking agent to find it right away.

justlooking

03-04-2004, 08:03 AM

We're all bozos on this bus.

Thorn

03-04-2004, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by justlooking
You're never gonna get me to agree with you on that (and I still don't think you understand what I was trying to say).

Its not directed at you, my friend.

What I ask of you is not agreement of any sort, but understanding. Its not at all the same thing, as I know you are aware.

So, know its enough that you understand why I might feel that way, and acknowledge my right to do so.

justlooking

03-04-2004, 08:06 AM

Why should I do that when we can just keep arguing about this until we're both in the Old Perv's Home together?

Casper

03-04-2004, 08:06 AM

argh .. makes no sense now so deleted.

Thorn

03-04-2004, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by Thorn
Point in case. My best teachers were immediately known to me to be more wordly, wise, or both.

Geeze... I really loose the ability to type anything approaching cohesive thoughts when I have worked all night and into the day. :)

Don't fret. Nap time approaches and I'll dry up and go away for awhile. Just killing time waiting for a dispatch.

Thorn

03-04-2004, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by justme
If you get to the point where I expound upon my point to Confused and still think we are in disagreement, let me know.

Otherwise... finish the thread before you start replying!

Heh.

Well, being mostly self taught I never claimed to be able to come to any conclusions quickly.

Its always an effort for me. However, I give myself props for getting there eventually. Sometimes I even manage a little style in the effort.

Sometimes... that is.

justme

03-04-2004, 08:15 AM

When I think 'Thorn' I think lots of black and lots of leather. And I generally think lots of style.

Thorn

03-04-2004, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by Confused
Hey thorn, can you give us a fucking break and either go back to school or use spellcheck!?!? What the fuck!?!?

Hey... Its been almost 48 hours this go round.

I'm bordering in punchy tired. [Thank God I'm office bound] I get loose of keyboard when I am this tired. I'd go to bed, but I still have a couple of things to do before I can. I'd do those things, but I am forced to wait for a missing component before I can finish them. Hence... etc and so forth.

Its Slinky's fault you know. He let me in here. Blame him. [As he point out, and probably correctly, folks around here blame him for everything else, so why not?]

Thorn

03-04-2004, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by BigMadM
I have an 8 inch penis.

LOL.

You really are a god.

h. von bingen

03-04-2004, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by BigMadM
shes slim, cute and hispanic.
i hope you have this in a macro.

dumbslave

03-04-2004, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
i think it would interesting to examine what triggers your obsessive behaviour. are you just bored unless you have something to hyperfocus upon?

Dear Brothel Girl:

I suppose I'm working off a debt in some round about fashion that you couldn't possibly hope to understand given your density and utter narcissism.

I see you've been reading up on Attention Deficit Disorder - that wonderful neurological condition to which I owe my sense of humor and hyper-sexuality.

Well slap my ass and call me shorty, as April would say. [Note to April: I laugh outloud whenever I repeat that phrase. People looked at me last night on the train and wondered what I was cackling about. Thanks.]

I much prefer writing on CL to pursue my investigations of character. I received the best possible compliment the other day from a simple young woman.

She wrote that the recollection set forth below gave her faith in human nature. That was the absolute best compliment I've ever received for anything I've ever written. It means much more to me than being called brilliant.

Best, etc.

Mabel & Eleanor

MC with Lisette on Her Birthday - m4w - 96

Reply to: [*****]anon-25576196@craigslist.org[/*****]
Date: 2004-03-02, 8:58PM EST

Thirty-two years ago the temperature reached the lower 70s making it one of the warmest March 2nds on record. We left school early with a few others and went up into the mountains outside of town to sit on a boulder strewn hillside from which you could see for miles. We were celebrating your 16th birthday as well.

I dropped acid to savor the perfection of that place which I saw as fitting your perfection. I was naked underneath a jumpsuit and wearing army boots in homage to Pete Townshend, my adolescent hero. You wore an embroidered peasant blouse above a long denim dress that left your tanned feet naked in your clogs. Your waist length hair was dark brown and thick. Your eyes were the darkest blue I have ever seen. It was one of the best days of my life.

At 17, you were not my first domestic goddess. There had already been two others who I knew with that kind of familiarity. On the weekends when your parents left you alone, we slept together in their bed and we played house.

Your parents liked me. Having been well raised in some respects, I always knew what to say to them and how to make them at home in their own home. I'd help them with their bags to the car almost as bad as an Eddie Haskell but falling somewhat short because I was actually sincere and meant what I said.

Not that we ever had sex in their bed. We only slept together naked there after dinner and the inevitable house party that occurred whenever parents left. You fed me artichokes and wholesome organic foods well before such things became the rage. All things that you had made with your own hands. You licked the olive oil from my mouth sometimes and casually teased me and were teased by me in turn. I would sit on your bed combing out your hair after your bath before the party guests arrived. We were relaxed together.

I never forced the issue of sex. I was content to kiss you and savor the near constant erection I had in your prescence whenever we were alone. Those erections were in contemplation of your sadness and silences at being adopted and your talents and your humor and kindness - all of which produced in me a constant compassion for you.

Not that I was a saint. Whenever you weren't looking, I enjoyed hasty sexual intrigues with your friends and other visitors to your home. The attic was my favorite spot. I think those experiences prepared me for eventually going to brothels where pleasure is meted out in minutes and seconds.

One night after my patience had finally eased your resistance and you had decided to let me inside of you, you went out for an hour leaving me alone with a new girl who was the friend of a friend of someone's friend. We'd all just met her. She was very likeable.

You discovered us in bed when you came home early and hated me. I was ashamed and left quickly. We never spoke again. A few years later you walked into a bar where I was making my tablemates laugh. You shot me a withering glance that took all my insolent charm and wit and flushed it right down the toilet.

I went outside and threw up reeling inside at the power you had to reveal me to myself. For ten years, I struggled to hang on to my insolent charm with drunken inhuman effort as if it were my real face. Then one night I finally let it go and it became just another face I was capable of wearing sometimes when sober.

I remembered you that night and remember you now again this night on your birthday. You were the first female to teach me something about humility.

Slinky Bender

03-04-2004, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by justlooking
We're all bozos on this bus.

Shouldn't it be really small then?

h. von bingen

03-04-2004, 09:30 AM

a volkswagon more like.

h. von bingen

03-04-2004, 09:32 AM

there have been a few too many disturbing fashion moments in this thread. i'm going to have trouble sleeping.

BigMadM

03-04-2004, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
there have been a few too many disturbing fashion moments in this thread. i'm going to have trouble sleeping.

do what I do, chase an Ambien with a xanax.....if I dont wake up, hey, shes going to get it all anyway.

pjorourke

03-04-2004, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
there have been a few too many disturbing fashion moments in this thread. i'm going to have trouble sleeping.
there there

h. von bingen

03-04-2004, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by BigMadM
do what I do, chase an Ambien with a xanax.....if I dont wake up, hey, shes going to get it all anyway.
ambien is such a bad drug.
they are both pretty bad drugs.
you've really gotta be careful there.

BigMadM

03-04-2004, 09:54 AM

Living dangerously, thats my middle name. Hehehe.

(I once fucked a 350 lb lady, and she only wanted to do it cowgirl with me. At that time in my life, I had just recovered from back surgery. That was living dangerously. She was incredibly light, thats all I remember, that and she had a little body odor.)

April

03-04-2004, 10:11 AM

Mike thanks for the story and the post. However, I don't want to fuck a fat condecending woman (I am of course referring to your story of course!) to level the playing field. Although I do have a huge strap on that appears to be begging to be stick in someone's ass.
Lovingly,
A=P

Confused

03-04-2004, 10:13 AM

Just when you thought it was safe to put the popcorn away....

April

03-04-2004, 10:21 AM

could it be because I missed my edit time?

I wrote stick instead of stuck.

BigMadM

03-04-2004, 10:28 AM

yeah, wheres vanessa when you need her.

h. von bingen

03-04-2004, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by April
Mike thanks for the story and the post. However, I don't want to fuck a fat condecending woman (I am of course referring to your story of course!) to level the playing field. Although I do have a huge strap on that appears to be begging to be stick in someone's ass.
Lovingly,
A=P
You have some misinformation. Check your source. But good luck, I hope you are able to start a career of some kind.

h. von bingen

03-04-2004, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by Confused
Just when you thought it was safe to put the popcorn away....
these kinds of posts are beneath you. isn't it clear i have no issue with this girl? why would you want to stoke things up?

oth, i noticed that despite protestations to the contrary, people are always the most engaged in the threads of high drama -- rational discussions not so much.

April

03-04-2004, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen

I hope you are able to start a career of some kind.

isn't it clear i have no issue with this girl?
_-----------------------------------------------------------------

Crystal
-A

Confused

03-04-2004, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
these kinds of posts are beneath you. isn't it clear i have no issue with this girl? why would you want to stoke things up?

oth, i noticed that despite protestations to the contrary, people are always the most engaged in the threads of high drama -- rational discussions not so much.

1 - most men enjoy a good catfight.

2 - as much as you keep saying you don't have an issue with her, its clear that you hold her in contempt. Your posts (ie radar screen, starting a career) give digs to her which I think are beneath you.

3 - if you really don't have an issue with her, why not just completely ignore her?

4 - since you haven't been able to ignore her, then I hope you don't mind if some of us sit back and enjoy the show.

h. von bingen

03-04-2004, 10:52 AM

you're just wrong. i don't hold her in contempt. in fact, i think the fact that she put a kid through school is admirable.

as a lawyer you should read more carefully.

Confused

03-04-2004, 11:00 AM

1. contempt, disdain, scorn, despite -- (lack of respect accompanied by a feeling of intense dislike; "he was held in contempt"; "the despite in which outsiders were held is legendary")
2. contempt, disrespect -- (a manner that is generally disrespectful and contemptuous)
3. contempt, scorn -- (open disrespect for a person or thing)
4. contempt -- (a willful disobedience to or disrespect for the authority of a court or legislative body)

Okay, so maybe you don't intensly dislike her but clearly you don't have a lot of respect for her. How about definition no 3 as to open disrespect minus the scorn?

And why the jab re she is beneath you. I'd expect more than little jabs like that, what are you trying to prove?

Why not just let it go?

PS re-lawyer jab, see above because I think no. 2 is spot on.

besides, are we now dancing / parrying?

Confused

03-04-2004, 11:01 AM

Your edit was a moment too late.

h. von bingen

03-04-2004, 11:02 AM

i hate that expression: spot on.

h. von bingen

03-04-2004, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by Confused
Okay, so maybe you don't intensly dislike her but clearly you don't have a lot of respect for her. i don't respect her because she wigged out for no reason.

justme

03-04-2004, 11:06 AM

Reconcile people wigging out for 'no reason' with people pigging out for no reason (discussion re: fat & underprivileged).

Hawley Griffin

03-04-2004, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
i don't respect her because she wigged out for no reason.

"He hit me first!!"
For some reason my parents never thought that was a good excuse for hitting my brother when we were children.

h. von bingen

03-04-2004, 11:11 AM

are you saying i should have the same compassion for people who wig out for no reason as i do for people who pig out for no reason (ie the poor)?

first of all the poor do have a reason.

but, second of all, if i were absolutely consistent i'd not only have compassion for the poor, but the stupid,* wouldn't i?

*i'm not talking about april here, i'm referring to cat ballou.

pjorourke

03-04-2004, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by h. von bingen
why would you want to stoke things up?Sport?

April

03-04-2004, 11:19 AM

I must admit that I an very curious as to what exactly is so admirable about putting ones children through school?

OHHHHHHHHHHH I get it! You mean a hooker putting her kid through school. I can actually just sit here and shut my yap. She proves time and time again that I was correct in my initial assesment of her.

Get a new career? For what? Like I already said my old uneducated ass makes as much hrly as you old educated ass. Pretty sad huh?

I keep telling you, the only one that can embarass me is in fact me. You appear to be going out of your way dig after dig, even things that you think are flying above my blonde head trust me are quite transparent as are you. I don't have a degree and my spelling and grammar suck but please believe me when I tell you I am very intelligent and quite articulate ESPECIALLY for someone without a formal education. It really looks quite sad that you a self admitted snob with a plethora of education (well at least a law degree) is attempting to belittle a lowly prostitute (that was for your benefit) It almost appears as if your jealous. I further find it interesting that in threads where you apparently have no reason to be a part of you continually squeeze yourself into. Kind of like a prostitute promoting her wares saying look at me look at me! What exactly are you promoting? Aside from yourself and your unsurpassed need for attenton. (so funny that I'm the one to say this! The song isn't it ironic comes to mind)

To be perfectly honest I truly could care less. This thread has become like a car crash and everyone is rubber necking. I'm kind of enyoying this in a sick perverted way. Although I'm not sure if it is the sadist or the masochist coming out of me. Perhaps a bit of both.

dumbslave

03-04-2004, 11:20 AM

I don't know about you guys, but sometimes I just feel like bursting into song.

"Rip Her To Shreds"

(Hey! Psst PSST! Here she comes now.)
Oh, you know her, would you look at that hair
Yeah, you know her, check out those shoes
She looks like she stepped out of the middle of somebody's blues

She looks like the Sunday comics
She thinks she's Brenda Starr
Her nose job is real atomic
All she needs is an old knife scar

Yeah, she's so dull, come on rip her to shreds
She's so dull, come on rip her to shreds
Oh, you know her, "Miss Groupie Supreme"
Yeah, you know her, "Vera Vogue" on parade
Red eye shadow! Green mascara!

Yuck! She's too much
She looks like she don't know better
A case of partial extreme
Dressed in a Robert Hall sweater
Acting like a soap opera queen

Yeah, she's so dull, come on rip her to shreds
She's so dull, come on rip her to shreds
She got the nerve to tell me she's not on it
But her expression is too serene
Yeah, she looks like she washes with Comet
Always looking to create a scene
Yeah, she's so dull, come on rip her to shreds
She's so dull, come on rip her to shreds
She's so dull. Rip her to shreds

Oh, you know her, "Miss Groupie Supreme"
Yeah, you know her, "Vera Vogue" on parade
Yeah, you know her, with the fish-eating grin
She's so dull
Yeah, she got the nerve to tell me!
Huh, she's so dull
Yeah, there she goes now
She making out with King Kong
She take her boat to Hong Kong

Well, bye bye sugar
And not a minute too soon