DSS Weekend experience

[edouble]

Now my situation might be strictly my shit, it has nothing to do with the staff but more of a gripe with the chicks. I swung through a lil after midnight on saturday night, there were about 6 girls still there.

A black chick by the name of Champagne walks up gives me a few okay dances but no problem there. We discuss prices and she clearly stated 60 for head and 100 for all inclusive. We prodeed to the vip area, handed over my 20 for the house and gave her, her 60. Starts out and after about 10-15 minutes its clear i am not gonna come from her stopping and teeth action. So I tell her to hop on and lets fuck and get this over with. Her response is she wants another 100 beans, I was ready to, well whatever I offered her 40 more as discussed. She rejected and replied with a 60 counter offer. I pulled the rubber off and walked out of the room.

Again my beef isnt with the boys that run this establishment since they have always been gentleman and having looked out for me on numerous occasions. A big thanks goes out to Brian, who helped me out with a situation towards the end of the night, thanks. My shit is with these girls who tell you one thing and then play stupid a few minutes later. Oh well its a learning lesson, but I wasnt gonna let it just blow over with out expressing my frustration about this young lady Champagne, who claims she also works at D's parties and recently started working at Asscon.

Thanks for letting my speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew.

[remsenst]

This is the way to do it, e. We can put market forces into action. I don't know who Champagne is but I'll definitely be sure to steer clear of her when I'm at any of those spots. What does she look like? (she'll probably change her name once she hears about our boycott of her).

[TC123]

Remsenst is right. She just lost a lot more than $40. Thank you for the heads up.

[edouble]

Approx: 5'6" 34D natural, petite, caramel complexsion. Was wearing a bay blue dress with cut outs on the front exposing her belly and bottom of her tits. Shes actually a nice looking girl but the game she ran on me was uncalled for. If I wanted game I would have stayed at my girls house.

[nycstripclubs]

Given the same situation, I’m not so sure most girls in underground spots would have acted very differently. From your account, whose fault it was that you were unable to complete is debatable. You gotta know that this is a caveat emptor kinda business, where you can get variable service from the same girl. I’ve heard mixed reviews of Champagne some glowing, some not so. Once you agreed to a specific act and then changed your mind about what you wanted, you kinda threw out the previous agreement. I don’t think the fact that she was ultimately willing to make the change midstream for a $20 premium is out of bounds. That aside, if you’d have come to us immediately, we could have addressed the problem at that time. I will talk to her when I see her.

As for the boycott, in my eyes she’s one of the more attractive dancers we have. All my interactions with her have been quite pleasant. I’d be loath to see her go due to a decline in income from this one incident.

[edouble]

Thanks for your response and concern Val, but this isnt about being able to complete its about courtesy. I realize this is a game that revolves around money but at the same time its about integrity.

Am I trying to take money out of her pocket directly????? No but I am trying to look out for others who might be in a similiar situation. At least this way they get to ask is the price the same if we suck first and then fuck after or not. My experience has been that none of the girls have ever wanted extra, those are usually the ones that keep making the money and keep getting possitive reviews from the perverts in the community.

Like I said before it was a learning lesson. Petite walked up to me later on and made told me I should have stuck with her instead because she saw my frustration in the VIP, after I pulled the rubber off and walked out.

[Socketome]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
You gotta know that this is a caveat emptor kinda business

At some places more than others. Fact is, that's one of the factors guys use to choose which place to go to (that is, less caveat, more emptor)

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
I don’t think the fact that she was ultimately willing to make the change midstream for a $20 premium is out of bounds.

Well, maybe that's the way you read it, but what he's saying here:

Originally posted by edouble
A black chick by the name of Champagne walks up gives me a few okay dances but no problem there. We discuss prices and she clearly stated 60 for head and 100 for all inclusive. We prodeed to the vip area, handed over my 20 for the house and gave her, her 60. Starts out and after about 10-15 minutes its clear i am not gonna come from her stopping and teeth action. So I tell her to hop on and lets fuck and get this over with. Her response is she wants another 100 beans, I was ready to, well whatever I offered her 40 more as discussed. She rejected and replied with a 60 counter offer. I pulled the rubber off and walked out of the room..

Does not agree with that. What he says (even if it's not what he meant ) is that she wanted a total of $160 (the agreed $60 plus another $100. Big difference from another $20, and not what I think anyone here (but you, apparently) thinks is reasonable. Yes, eventually she negotiated down to "only another $20", but not before trying to rip the guy off (in terms of fee, not "cash and dash").

(and when he comes back with

Originally posted by edouble
At least this way they get to ask is the price the same if we suck first and then fuck after or not. My experience has been that none of the girls have ever wanted extra

it seems even more clear).

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
As for the boycott, in my eyes she’s one of the more attractive dancers we have.

What a shock.

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
All my interactions with her have been quite pleasant.

What a shock.

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
I’d be loath to see her go due to a decline in income from this one incident.

The biggest shock of all.

PS The bottom line appears to be this girl looks nice, but gives LOUSY service, and then tries to hit you up for more $ to boot. Why should guys be avoiding her like the plague? Sounds like the best thing for customers of the place would be if she did leave due to a "decline in buisiness" (and this may have been the first incident which you heard of, but I doubt it when you already admitted her reviews were "mixed").

[nycstripclubs]

My understanding is that there was no price explicitly stated for BOTH. My experience has been that the girls who quote 60/100 in this kinda venue usually mean only one act and often ask more for half and half.

I did get some very good reviews and some so so reviews of her performance. From what I know of Champagne, I don't think it was her intention to rip the guy off.

[BennyHill]

I hate to throw fuel on the fire however I was getting a lapdance form champagne after she just walked up and was being pushy about it, I agreed cause it was dead that night and actually felt bad for the girls working.

We agreed on !0 dollars, she gave me a decent lap dance, no problems with the quality, I pull out a twenty, all that I had and begin to hand it to her and asked if she had change. She latched on to my twenty and wouldnt let go after she said no change, she took my twenty and just looked and me for about 5 akward seconds and she said dont you think it was worth twenty.

I said ok fine, I didnt want to seem cheap, and by no means am I, but when you agree on something it is the principle of the whole thing.

So for 10 dollars I found out that this girl is rude and greedy, and now I know I will never get a lap dance from here again, over all I guess 10 dollars was worth finding this out.

Buyer Beware

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by BennyHill
I hate to throw fuel on the fire however I was getting a lapdance form champagne after she just walked up and was being pushy about it, I agreed cause it was dead that night and actually felt bad for the girls working.
First mistake. What you should be thinking is: Its a slow night, THATS GREAT, buyers market!!!

We agreed on !0 dollars, she gave me a decent lap dance, no problems with the quality, I pull out a twenty, all that I had and begin to hand it to her and asked if she had change. She latched on to my twenty and wouldnt let go after she said no change, she took my twenty and just looked and me for about 5 akward seconds and she said dont you think it was worth twenty.
The correct answer is "Yeah, but we said TEN dollars. So, gimme my change." (BTW, it always helps to have small denomination bills)

I said ok fine, I didnt want to seem cheap, and by no means am I, but when you agree on something it is the principle of the whole thing.
You didn't agree to pay $20, so why would you seem cheap?

Personally, I actually enjoy hondling with the dancers. For the most part, their objective is to get as much outa your pocket as they can. Your's is to maximize mileage. You need to keep your eye on the ball and not worry so much about hurting their feelings. They gotta have a pretty thick skin to be in this biz.

So for 10 dollars I found out that this girl is rude and greedy, and now I know I will never get a lap dance from here again, over all I guess 10 dollars was worth finding this out.
What you actually found out is that the girl is a hustler, which is no big surprize. The better ones do it so you don't notice it as much. She's just not laying on enuf "stripper shit©". The girl is off her game.

Buyer Beware
ABSOLUTELY!


©ASS-C (http://www.ass-c.com/glossary.htm)

[Socketome]

This surely reflects a change in attitude from "customer firendly" to "let's make a whole bunch of excuses for our ROB's*".

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
My experience has been that the girls who quote 60/100 in this kinda venue usually mean only one act and often ask more for half and half.

Is it only me, or has anyone else found that out of HUNDEREDS of these girls, almost NONE has ever refused to suck my dick (at least to ge me hard enough to fuck) before fucking ?





Originally posted by nycstripclubs

First mistake. What you should be thinking is: Its a slow night, THATS GREAT, buyers market!!!

Sure, blame your customers for your ROBs.


Originally posted by nycstripclubs
The correct answer is "Yeah, but we said TEN dollars. So, gimme my change." (BTW, it always helps to have small denomination bills)

Yep, it's always the customer's fault.

Originally posted by nycstripclubs

You didn't agree to pay $20, so why would you seem cheap?

Because he was obviously being faced with a rude, obnoxious bitch who was more than likely to make some scene, and management obviously is now totally "pro dancer" attitude and couldn't give shit about the customers?


Originally posted by nycstripclubs

Personally, I actually enjoy hondling with the dancers. For the most part, their objective is to get as much outa your pocket as they can. Your's is to maximize mileage. You need to keep your eye on the ball and not worry so much about hurting their feelings. They gotta have a pretty thick skin to be in this biz

But us customers are not "in the biz", so WE don't need thick skins. We want to go to places where shit like this doesn't happen, and especially to places where managemnt doesn't accept, much less support type of behavior.

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
What you actually found out is that the girl is a hustler, which is no big surprize. The better ones do it so you don't notice it as much. She's just not laying on enuf "stripper shit©". The girl is off her game

Wow, the exuses just keep on flowing!!!!! So, what you're saying is that this is now dereguer at DSS, and all the dancers are expected to pull this shit, supported by management, and the customers should expect it, and some will even do a "better job" of ripping the customers off.


Originally posted by BennyHill
Buyer Beware

Originally posted by nycstripclubs

ABSOLUTELY

That is one of the most startling answers I have ever hard from management of any business regarding thier own establishment!!!!!




* ROB = Rip Off Bitch

[Socketome]

Originally posted by BennyHill
I hate to throw fuel on the fire however I was getting a lapdance form champagne after she just walked up and was being pushy about it, I agreed cause it was dead that night and actually felt bad for the girls working.

We agreed on !0 dollars, she gave me a decent lap dance, no problems with the quality, I pull out a twenty, all that I had and begin to hand it to her and asked if she had change. She latched on to my twenty and wouldnt let go after she said no change, she took my twenty and just looked and me for about 5 akward seconds and she said dont you think it was worth twenty.

I said ok fine, I didnt want to seem cheap, and by no means am I, but when you agree on something it is the principle of the whole thing.

So for 10 dollars I found out that this girl is rude and greedy, and now I know I will never get a lap dance from here again, over all I guess 10 dollars was worth finding this out.

Buyer Beware

Anyone else thinking more about that "BOYCOTT"?

[justlooking]

The problem here is that Valjean is a Strip Club Guy, so expects to have service providers try to rip him off without providing any service.

Guys who come more from the prostitution side expect people to make unambiguous agreements and live up to them.

[justlooking]

(So I guess DSS/ASSCon aren't as different from strip clubs as I argued they were last year.)

[Jimmy69]

Rules:

1. The customer is always right (even though they may not be, they are paying and will stop paying if they feel shafted).
2. These places are very intimidating, I can see why NO ONE would want to feel comfortable bringing up a complaint in any one of these places. The boards are a better solution and better place to communicate to the house/club.
3. I think a policy change is needed in this club and better communication to the providers. If not and clearly stated here, I can see the entire club loosing support for the UtopiaGuide membership, those that post and worse and more plentiful, those that DON'T post.

Again, the customer is always right! Busines 101.

[danger-us]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
First mistake. What you should be thinking is: Its a slow night, THATS GREAT, buyers market!!!

Personally, I actually enjoy hondling with the dancers. For the most part, their objective is to get as much outa your pocket as they can. Your's is to maximize mileage. You need to keep your eye on the ball and not worry so much about hurting their feelings. They gotta have a pretty thick skin to be in this biz.

What you actually found out is that the girl is a hustler, which is no big surprize. The better ones do it so you don't notice it as much. She's just not laying on enuf "stripper shit©". The girl is off her game.


So it's a game, limited rules, both sides trying to hustle?

Is touching a girl where it wasn't agreed upon, OK? (hey, so I poked her in the bungie hole, so what? Just trying to maximize my mileage.)

After a dance, where you agreed to pay twenty; offering her ten is OK? (part of the game?)

I'm not sure what you really mean when you write "I actually enjoy hondling with the dancers", (is there a misspelling there?) but I'm wondering if what you really mean is "it is only OK for the dancer's to hustle the clients.

[justlooking]

"Hondling" is Yiddish for negotiating. But it implies the kind of negotiation you'd use a Yiddish word to describe.

[justlooking]

Originally posted by danger-us
Is touching a girl where it wasn't agreed upon, OK? (hey, so I poked her in the bungie hole, so what? Just trying to maximize my mileage.)

At a place like DSS agreement to that is assumed.

[justlooking]

The problem with using a term like "Stripper Shit" in connection with DSS is that those girls aren't strippers. They're hos. It's a whole different kind of service, and a whole different dynamic. IMO.

[Slinky Bender]

Originally posted by justlooking
The problem with using a term like "Stripper Shit" in connection with DSS is that those girls aren't strippers. They're hos. It's a whole different kind of service, and a whole different dynamic. IMO.

I agree with that. But if you agree with that, then you can't also claim the benefits associated with being a spot where "Stripper Shit" doesn't happen, which, I think, may be the biggest reason why guys from here go to "underground spots" in lieu of "strip clubs" to begin with. As such, once a place has girls who are apt to pull "stripper shit", they become much less useful for the type of guys from here to go to. Perhaps it's just an unstated change in their business model - to become more like an "above ground strip club".

[justlooking]

I thought I already said that.

[justlooking]

This is boring, but to be clear, to us Strip Club Guys, "Stripper Shit" isn't a bad thing. We like "Stripper Shit". But the context is different.

"Stripper Shit" is all the stuff a stripper does to you, before and between dances, to get you to buy dances from her. She leans into you, she strokes your arm and then your thigh, she gazes into your eyes, she talks breathily. You know that stuff. The point is, good strippers know they have to do that to sell dances because dances themselves are kind of worthless. Or, at least, dances are mostly a tease, so she's got to tease to sell you the part of the tease you pay for.

Many of us Strip Club Guys wish that prostitutes would do more "Stripper Shit." We miss the element of seduction you get from strippers.

BUT nobody would say "Stripper Shit" was good if the stripper were using it, say, to distract you from the fact that she was overbilling you for six dances when you only bought five. But that's sort of what Valjean is saying above: if Champagne were "on her game", then edouble "wouldn't have noticed" she was trying to engage in what most of us would consider double-charging.

It's one thing for a stripper to use "Stripper Shit" to extract a purchase from you. It's another thing for her to use it to rip you off.

[Slinky Bender]

I would say it appears you two don't share the same definition of the term. I think that's clear when he defines a stripper's insisting on keeping $20 for a $10 dance as just "stripper shit". If that's the case, I'm so glad that no one's introduced the concept of "cashier's shit" yet.

[justlooking]

But I don't think it's fair to call this an "unstated change in their business model." The Underground's always been a place for negotiation. That's why guys like Valjean and swope who enjoy hondling do better there.

[Slinky Bender]

Sorry, it just seemed very different to yell at a guy who just got ripped off that it was somehow "his fault" as opposed to:

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
As has been stated on many occasions on this and other boards we set the standard for customer service in our particular little niche. I wouldn't try to hold you or anyone to the level of service we display every day


And we'll have to agree to disagree that a "policy", or whatever, where dancers feel confortable not to give guys back their change or charge more than they agree to for dances is simply "part of the game one should expect", unless you're going to subscribe to Ww's theory of "this is a stripclub, expect to get ripped off".

Now, if that's what the "Ground Rules" are, I think it is incumbent on the operators of such a place (especially if they are going to be coming on here or other PMBs and acting like they are "friends of the common man") to let guys know that the can't expect not to get ripped off by the dancers and that they should "watch their wallets". Perhaps I haven't been reading carefully enough, but that's not what I've taken away from the various discussions arround here for the past year. What my impression was that was one of the biggest selling points - that you don't have to do that, and for the majority here (i.e. whorehounds as opposed to "strip club guys") was the single biggest attraction.

[fritz32]

They are all money hungry hoes IMHO....And another thing I hate is as soon as you get in the door they are almost FORCING you to lap dance. IF I wanna dance with her I will ask her... Thats really starting to bug me the hounding and begging of them..I like to find the 1 I choose...

[robnotbob]

Originally posted by fritz32
And another thing I hate is as soon as you get in the door they are almost FORCING you to lap dance. IF I wanna dance with her I will ask her... Thats really starting to bug me the hounding and begging of them.

I've only been there a couple of times, but the LACK of these tactics is what makes/made it so appealing.

[justlooking]

I never feel that hustled at DSS, either.

[danger-us]

Originally posted by justlooking

BUT nobody would say "Stripper Shit" was good if the stripper were using it, say, to distract you from the fact that she was overbilling you for six dances when you only bought five. But that's sort of what Valjean is saying above: if Champagne were "on her game", then edouble "wouldn't have noticed" she was trying to engage in what most of us would consider double-charging.

It's one thing for a stripper to use "Stripper Shit" to extract a purchase from you. It's another thing for her to use it to rip you off.


Affirmative. I agree. Um, ditto.

[danger-us]

Originally posted by slinkybender
And we'll have to agree to disagree that a "policy", or whatever, where dancers feel confortable not to give guys back their change or charge more than they agree to for dances is simply "part of the game one should expect", unless you're going to subscribe to Ww's theory of "this is a stripclub, expect to get ripped off".

Now, if that's what the "Ground Rules" are, I think it is incumbent on the operators of such a place (especially if they are going to be coming on here or other PMBs and acting like they are "friends of the common man") to let guys know that the can't expect not to get ripped off by the dancers and that they should "watch their wallets".

This is certainly the way he comes across in this thread. What standard of customer service is this?

[danger-us]

And in the end, talk is cheap. If you are going to talk the talk, walk the walk.

[dieselpi]

someone needs to brush up on their business ethics, since you seem to be approaching this as well as defending the girls from a business standpoint. Yes in the one case he should have said 10 was the deal give me my change. But for you to make the comment about smaller bills? Are you going to put a bank teller in your venue? or a atm that dispenses in 10 denominations?

The customer is always right, the golden rule. Yet it seems to be flipped here. In my experiences at DSS none of the girls have done anything I considered to be a hustle.... it was always business and cut and dry. This girl isnt following that and its gonna cost her and possibly you in the long run. If enough people have a distaste like this they will eventually get fed up.
And in the underground community word of mouth means alot, negative word of mouth spreads like wildfire.

With all that being said for the most part I like the atmosphere at DSS and it means alot but keep in mind that it doesnt take much to mess up a comfortable night. Ive never dealt with this particular girl nor do I have any intentions to, anyone that has a good review or experience good luck and god bless. But my view has been swayed

[justlooking]

Originally posted by danger-us
So it's a game, limited rules, both sides trying to hustle?

Originally posted by danger-us
And in the end, talk is cheap. If you are going to talk the talk, walk the walk.

I'm not trying to start a fight with you, danger-us, but it's interesting to compare these statements with your posts in the "Phone Number" thread.

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by justlooking
Many of us Strip Club Guys wish that prostitutes would do more "Stripper Shit." We miss the element of seduction you get from strippers.

BUT nobody would say "Stripper Shit" was good if the stripper were using it, say, to distract you from the fact that she was overbilling you for six dances when you only bought five. But that's sort of what Valjean is saying above: if Champagne were "on her game", then edouble "wouldn't have noticed" she was trying to engage in what most of us would consider double-charging.

It's one thing for a stripper to use "Stripper Shit" to extract a purchase from you. It's another thing for her to use it to rip you off.

She agreed to do what was requested for an extra $20 so I don't see the "double charging".

The point I was trying to get across is that if Champagne was on her game, edouble and Benny hill wouldn't give a fuck about dropping an extra ten or twenty bucks. They'd agree she WAS worth it and it wouldn't be a big deal.

[nycstripclubs]

Customer service has always been and will continue to be of paramount importance at DSS. In my first post I indicated that if a customer had a concern with a dancer he should talk to whoever is managing the spot at that time. That goes for concerns involving employees, or anything else for that matter. Many of you know us personally, and I don’t think we’re that off-putting. We have been dealing with this kinda stuff for a good while and can usually resolve most concerns to everyone’s satisfaction. However, if you’re gonna wait to try to resolve them here it becomes hard for us to address them properly that long after the fact. I probably won’t get to see Champagne for at least another few days. By that time, it’s old news.

The DSS dancers are recruited from strip club venues. Most of them are semi-pros at best with all the inherent problems. In addition, most of them are performing services for a fraction of the price you would pay a real pro of equivalent caliber. Half of them would kick your ass if you called them a prostitute or hoe to their face, despite what they actually do.

We have never said that DSS is a whorehouse on this PMB (there were some long threads discussing this very point). If that’s what you’re looking for, you’re looking in the wrong place. We have always maintained that DSS is a strip / lap dance club that allows extras. It may be a fine point to some, but it clearly explains some of the behavior you might get from certain dancers. It also explains why some of you “mongers” really don’t have a clue of what to expect. Dealing with strippers involves a good measure of uncertainty, for me its part of the appeal. For those of you who want absolute predictability, you won't find it here. However, if you come with the right expectations, and know what you’re doing, you are almost guaranteed a great time.

In none of the above examples did Champagne do anything that indicated she was trying to actually rip anyone off. What she did was ASK for more money. That’s what strippers do. No one will expect you to pay more, including the stripper, unless you’ve agreed to a price for a specific act. We don’t allow the dancers to outright rip you off. I personally threw a dancer out of Club ASS-C NYC a few weeks ago when a customer informed me she didn’t perform as agreed. The thing is, you have to bring it to our attention at the time so we can properly resolve the problem to your satisfaction.

[justlooking]

I think that was an excellent post, on the whole, Valjean. But I have to say that most Semi-Pros don't have "managers".

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by justlooking
I think that was an excellent post, on the whole, Valjean. But I have to say that most Semi-Pros don't have "managers". The ones with "managers" are probably the first ones to kick your ass if you call them a hoe. Denial is a very powerful force.

If they wanna be called dancers, who am I to argue.

[justlooking]

I certainly don't want either of our asses to get kicked if we can avoid it.

[edouble]

this discussion is getting no where. Val I like you and I value what you guys do for the community but this shit is off the hook.

she agreed to to an additional 20 only after she said another 100. to me this is the same as if she went through my pockets and took my money. the reason i pulled the rubber off and walked out of the VIP with my pants and belt still undone is because if i was playing her game i would have done something out of my charachter.

so would my behavior be acceptable, hell fucking no! so why is hers???????????????????????????

[nycstripclubs]

Edouble,

I understand your frustration. However, I don’t see what happened as quite the same as her going through your pockets. Stuff like this happens in ALL underground strip club type spots. Similar incidents have happened to me on several occasions. I chalked them up to learning experiences.

I wish you’d have told B about it that night. While we try to insure that you’ll leave satisfied, if you don’t say anything about it AT THE TIME, there’s not much we can do to set things right. I will bring this up with her ifI see Champagne on Wednesday or Thursday. By that time, she’ll most likely say she doesn’t remember the incident.

Peace,
Valjean

[bigdog187]

He got herbed by another stripper

[fritz32]

lol....@ herbed

[remsenst]

Originally posted by BennyHill
I hate to throw fuel on the fire however I was getting a lapdance form champagne after she just walked up and was being pushy about it, I agreed cause it was dead that night and actually felt bad for the girls working.

We agreed on !0 dollars, she gave me a decent lap dance, no problems with the quality, I pull out a twenty, all that I had and begin to hand it to her and asked if she had change. She latched on to my twenty and wouldnt let go after she said no change, she took my twenty and just looked and me for about 5 akward seconds and she said dont you think it was worth twenty.

I said ok fine, I didnt want to seem cheap, and by no means am I, but when you agree on something it is the principle of the whole thing.

So for 10 dollars I found out that this girl is rude and greedy, and now I know I will never get a lap dance from here again, over all I guess 10 dollars was worth finding this out.

Buyer Beware

The same thing happened to me at AssCon by a girl named Gabrielle. The responses I received were similar to the ones here, that it was MY fault.

[remsenst]

Originally posted by fritz32
They are all money hungry hoes IMHO....And another thing I hate is as soon as you get in the door they are almost FORCING you to lap dance. IF I wanna dance with her I will ask her... Thats really starting to bug me the hounding and begging of them..I like to find the 1 I choose...


While the almighty dollar is the basic motivation for all the girls there, I have usually encountered girls at DSS who do not make it seem that way. They stay away when you tell them, and they sometimes go the extra mile, adding value to the errr, deal so to speak. And then there are the girls you're talking about, who rip you off and make you think you owe them. They are the ones who will sit on your lap and not get off, not dance, and will want $ for it. One of the best things I like about DSS v. AssCon is that there is so much less pushy women at DSS, but it looks like it's starting to change. Even some of the girls I spoke to at DSS say they won't work at AssCon because, in their words, it's "too ghetto" for them.

[BMJ]

Originally posted by remsenst
While the almighty dollar is the basic motivation for all the girls there, I have usually encountered girls at DSS who do not make it seem that way. They stay away when you tell them, and they sometimes go the extra mile, adding value to the errr, deal so to speak. And then there are the girls you're talking about, who rip you off and make you think you owe them. They are the ones who will sit on your lap and not get off, not dance, and will want $ for it. One of the best things I like about DSS v. AssCon is that there is so much less pushy women at DSS, but it looks like it's starting to change. Even some of the girls I spoke to at DSS say they won't work at AssCon because, in their words, it's "too ghetto" for them.

Speaking of "too ghetto, was there one day last week and didn't see any white ladies.

[John75]

if is was 60 for bj and 100 for all inclusive wouldn't 100 cover some bj action also?

[BMJ]

Originally posted by John75
if is was 60 for bj and 100 for all inclusive wouldn't 100 cover some bj action also?

Yes, you would think so. At least that's what you would expect from an indie or brothel.

[robnotbob]

The point some folks are trying to make here is that DSS isn't either of those (they say).

[Slinky Bender]

Remind me what Danielle said when she first came here?

[BMJ]

Originally posted by robnotbob
The point some folks are trying to make here is that DSS isn't either of those (they say).


Sure, I follow what you say. But should this end up more, than say a Julies? Where 30 minutes is $140, I believe..So this should be $160, in a not private VIP room? Makes no sense to me.

[BMJ]

Originally posted by robnotbob
The point some folks are trying to make here is that DSS isn't either of those (they say).

I'd say it's a brothel, with a slightly different MO.

[Casper]

Originally posted by slinkybender
Remind me what Danielle said when she first came here?

I dunno exactly as she kind of mumbled. I think she had something stuck in her throat.

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by John75
if is was 60 for bj and 100 for all inclusive wouldn't 100 cover some bj action also? In the underground strip club scene, when a girl quotes 60/100 or 50/80 or 40/70 it means one OR the other not BOTH. I've never been quoted an ALL INCLUSIVE price. However unlike a place like Julie's, PRICING IS NEGOTIABLE. And any combination is on the table and open for discussion.

In addition, in a straight up whorehouse, you get a timed hour or half hour. At an underground strip club, you can spend hours with multiple girls before ever hitting the VIP. Even then, time in the VIP (semi private) is usually limited not by the clock on the wall, but by how long the DANCER wants to stay there or how deep your pockets are, cause as long as you keep tipping, she'll stay.

Despite what some of you would like to believe, it REALLY is comparing apples and oranges. Some people enjoy the less structured, less predictable environment an underground club provides and some need to know exactly what's gonna happen when they walk through the door. Those preferences are not mutually exclusive, but they greatly impact your on expectations. Those expectations will ultimately decide whether or not you enjoy yourself.

[TC123]

Originally posted by remsenst
The same thing happened to me at AssCon by a girl named Gabrielle. The responses I received were similar to the ones here, that it was MY fault.

A number of people have posted negative experiences with Gabrielle. I haven't seen her in a long time, and I don't know if the posts negatively hurt her business directly, but they warned a lot of people to stay away from her. When enough people see enough negative posts about a dancer, I'm sure there is an impact.

Whether edouble or Champagne was right or wrong, he is a dissatisfied customer, and if enough people are also dissatisfied, Champagne will lose in the end, by not getting repeat business. Then the board (and the community) serves its main purpose: to educate each other on postive and negative experiences so that we can make more informed consumer decisions.

[remsenst]

Originally posted by John75
if is was 60 for bj and 100 for all inclusive wouldn't 100 cover some bj action also?

My experiences, almost every where, have shown that fs, or, as some say "all inclusive," includes what some others call "half and half." This is not only for the guy's pleasure, it saves wear and tear on the provider's errr, more sensitive (?) parts. Most providers I know prefer to keep it out of their honey hole as long as possible. When they start off with a bj, it revs up the guy, and the theory being we can last only so long, that more time in the mouth is less time in the cooch. So I vehemently agree with you.

[remsenst]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
In the underground strip club scene, when a girl quotes 60/100 or 50/80 or 40/70 it means one OR the other not BOTH. I've never been quoted an ALL INCLUSIVE price.

See above post.
Gimme a break, enough is enough. Stop defending her. Most girls put the cover on with the one method, and finish off with the second.

LIke TC said, fault is moot at this point and what we have here is a dissatisfied customer. The way you're drawing it out is taking the focus off the incident, and is redirecting it elsewhere, sadly, to your disadvantage. It's now becoming a JVJ v. customers thing when it started out as a Champagne v. guy (was it e?, it's gone so far I forgot who the aggrieving party was) thing.

DSS is a good place. Customers will keep it open. Making customers happy will keep customers cumming.

[BMJ]

Originally posted by remsenst
See above post.
Gimme a break, enough is enough. Stop defending her. Most girls put the cover on with the one method, and finish off with the second.

LIke TC said, fault is moot at this point and what we have here is a dissatisfied customer. The way you're drawing it out is taking the focus off the incident, and is redirecting it elsewhere, sadly, to your disadvantage. It's now becoming a JVJ v. customers thing when it started out as a Champagne v. guy (was it e?, it's gone so far I forgot who the aggrieving party was) thing.

DSS is a good place. Customers will keep it open. Making customers happy will keep customers cumming.

I have to agree. JVJ is starting to look real bad here.

[John99]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs

The DSS dancers are recruited from strip club venues. Most of them are semi-pros at best with all the inherent problems. In addition, most of them are performing services for a fraction of the price you would pay a real pro of equivalent caliber. .

I love DSS, and I think it has really raised the bar for this type of establishment. Their customer service and professionalism is us impeccable. I don't want to sound like I am being negative, but I want to call a spade a spade.

Let's look at the numbers...

Entrace: $20. VIP $20. Lapdance: $20 to $40. BB & FS = $100 - $125.

So that totals to between $160 - $205 without tip.

Note, I think most gentlemen will agree that they wind up spending no more than 20 - 30 minutes in the VIP. And when the deal is done, you leave.

Now I can walk into Julies, have a solid half hour with a girl who will do anything, including strip, dance, masterbate, whatever, for $140 - $175, and a full hour from $200 - $250.

I have spent a full hour with girls at DSS getting lap dances and then moving on to VIP. At the end of the night, I spent at very least $250, probably a lot more.

How much do you think it would cost to book a solid hour of a young lady's time in the VIP? My guess is between $200 - $250, if not more. Then add VIP and Entrance fee, and you get my point. This is not to mention the mileage, quality, and service you get from a place like Julies, is significantly higher. At DSS, I have never had a girl offer BB, never had DFK, never been catered to from head to toe, and never had a private room.

So to say that they are "performing a service for a fraction of the price" seems to be a bit of a stretch.

DSS is a totally different environment from a standard incall. You get to hang out, BS, have a drink, watch the girls, talk to girls and other mongers, and have a good time for a couple of hours. In that respect, it is very different experience...one that I enjoy. That is why I go to DSS. It is a wonderful place. But it is hardly a fraction of the price.

[BMJ]

Originally posted by John99
I love DSS, and I think it has really raised the bar for this type of establishment. Their customer service and professionalism is us impeccable. I don't want to sound like I am being negative, but I want to call a spade a spade.

Let's look at the numbers...

Entrace: $20. VIP $20. Lapdance: $20 to $40. BB & FS = $100 - $125.

So that totals to between $160 - $205 without tip.

Note, I think most gentlemen will agree that they wind up spending no more than 20 - 30 minutes in the VIP. And when the deal is done, you leave.

Now I can walk into Julies, have a solid half hour with a girl who will do anything, including strip, dance, masterbate, whatever, for $140 - $175, and a full hour from $200 - $250.

I have spent a full hour with girls at DSS getting lap dances and then moving on to VIP. At the end of the night, I spent at very least $250, probably a lot more.

How much do you think it would cost to book a solid hour of a young lady's time in the VIP? My guess is between $200 - $250, if not more. Then add VIP and Entrance fee, and you get my point. This is not to mention the mileage, quality, and service you get from a place like Julies, is significantly higher. At DSS, I have never had a girl offer BB, never had DFK, never been catered to from head to toe, and never had a private room.

So to say that they are "performing a service for a fraction of the price" seems to be a bit of a stretch.

DSS is a totally different environment from a standard incall. You get to hang out, BS, have a drink, watch the girls, talk to girls and other mongers, and have a good time for a couple of hours. In that respect, it is very different experience...one that I enjoy. That is why I go to DSS. It is a wonderful place. But it is hardly a fraction of the price.

Good post. JVJ comment was absurd and he continues to look worse in all of this.

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by John99
DSS is a totally different environment from a standard incall. You get to hang out, BS, have a drink, watch the girls, talk to girls and other mongers, and have a good time for a couple of hours. In that respect, it is very different experience...

Which is the point I've been trying to get across all along.

Apples & Oranges.

[Slinky Bender]

Originally posted by John99
At DSS, I have never had a girl offer BB, never had DFK, never been catered to from head to toe, and never had a private room.

I agree, I've never had a private room either......... ;).


Wait.... I'm not too sure about that one, either. Does it count if they close off a semi-public room and you're in it?

[billyS]

Originally posted by slinkybender
I Does it count if they close off a semi-public room and you're in it?
Only if the sheet goes all the way to the ceiling

[edouble]

this isnt what i intended this dam thread to become, hell i might even be at ascon tommorrow night or at dds on friday night. my beef sint with dss, asscon or the management. my intention was to look out for the guys who do the same for me by reviewing other places and providers.

[justlooking]

Originally posted by John99
At DSS, I have never had a girl offer BB, never had DFK, never been catered to from head to toe, and never had a private room.

You know, the service level at DSS can be quite a bit higher if you avoid the streetwalker types.

Of course, you risk getting called a racist if you do that.

[BMJ]

Originally posted by justlooking
You know, the service level at DSS can be quite a bit higher if you avoid the streetwalker types.

Of course, you risk getting called a racist if you do that.

Yup and BillyS will do that. I do agree with ya.

[justlooking]

For the record, I don't agree with you about billyS. I think billy Gets It.

[danger-us]

Originally posted by justlooking
I'm not trying to start a fight with you, danger-us, but it's interesting to compare these statements with your posts in the "Phone Number" thread.

If you look back at that thread you will find that I have NEVER supported the kind of all out BS hustle being described in this thread.

I'm cool with the rubbing against the guys, sweet talking ( Stripper shit, as you described it in this thread). I'm against outright lies and the like, but thought you understood my position already... not?

[remsenst]

Originally posted by edouble
this isnt what i intended this dam thread to become, hell i might even be at ascon tommorrow night or at dds on friday night. my beef sint with dss, asscon or the management. my intention was to look out for the guys who do the same for me by reviewing other places and providers.

e,

We all appreciate that you've warned us. Thank you.

[BMJ]

Originally posted by remsenst
e,

We all appreciate that you've warned us. Thank you.

Yes thanks. I would have concluded that bj+fs, was the all inclusive...................

[justme]

Originally posted by justlooking
You know, the service level at DSS can be quite a bit higher if you avoid the streetwalker types.

Of course, you risk getting called a racist if you do that.

I suppose it's only racist to believe that street walker types = some particular race or another.

I should ask HvB if that's irony.

[justlooking]

Your use of "believe" reminds me of the old joke about the guy in the South who was asked if he believed in infant baptism.

"Believe in it?" he answered. "Heck, I've seen it!"

[h. von bingen]

Originally posted by slinkybender
Does it count if they close off a semi-public room and you're in it?
i'll take the cask of the amontillado room with a non-sw type svp for $10, alex.

[The_Enigmatist]

This is an interesting thread. A dancer at Club Assc tried exactly the same thing with similar pricepoints. This dancer was named Ivy, so I assume different dancers, but it shows the whacked dancer logic.

What I assume they are thinking is 15 min BJ is what you get for $60. You used up your time so now the negotiation (and the clock) is starting over. It doesn't compute to the customer, but I guess this is the stripper math involved.

I don't think JVJ looks particularly bad here other than that isn't siding with the customer, which might be bad business in the long run. His description of DSS is right on, I think. (And I admit to never having been to DSS, but based on reading here I think it is pretty similar to the old F/Stop and somewhat similar to Assc.) I would describe DSS and Assc as strip club-type environment with a separate, but not private, VIP area where extras are available. It is not fair to compare this place to Julie's or other places like it as they are different. As I understand things, extras are worked out strictly between customers and dancers so there will be differences in pricing, etc. and management doesn't have the same control over these things as someplace like Julie's. OTOH, people seem to like DSS and Club AssC particularly because of the lack of ripoff factor. Prices may vary, but if you negotiate something, it shouldn't change when you get to VIP and you should get what you paid for. While the stripper math doesn't compute to me, if you really want to get the ripoff factor, try a mainstream strip club.

[justlooking]

I don't see this as Stripper Math.

I see it as Streetwalker Math.

[justme]

The con vs. the hustle.

[nowman]

As the former owner of F/STOP and the host of club ASSC on wed's, I have my own insights and perspective on this stuff!

First off... what happened with Champagne at DSS is regretable but certainly NOT criminal. When I was at F/STOP we had a sliding tip out scale ranging from$0-35. Obviously if we had a great night EVERY girl paid FULL t.o. If we didn't we asked the girl" how did you do...ballpark?" Now... truth be told we had a pretty good idea how everyone did, but being fair minded, we allowed THEM to tell US. Guess what?... every now and then a girl would try to get over on us and we nailed for it (nailed=caught) lest anyone think otherwise. But... for the most part the girls were more than happy to dish out the $35!

My point being is that this is a dirty biz, filled with dirty people (exept for ME ofcourse) and anyone who is unfortunate to have ONE bad experience in a locale where they've had many positive ones really should take it with a grain of salt and chalk it up to a learning experience.

In terms of it being a hustle from both sides John/ provider, it absolutely is I know Many guys on this board who brag all the time about getting some bitch down on her price quotes.
SO... in conclusion it really is all about the BENJAMINS!

[TC123]

Originally posted by nowman
this is a dirty biz, filled with dirty people (exept for ME ofcourse)

I couldn't have said it better myself!

[jj1428]

Had the same with an IVY but it was about 8 months ago (cute lite skin PR) is she back on the scene>?
Originally posted by The_Enigmatist
This is an interesting thread. A dancer at Club Assc tried exactly the same thing with similar pricepoints. This dancer was named Ivy, so I assume different dancers, but it shows the whacked dancer logic.

What I assume they are thinking is 15 min BJ is what you get for $60. You used up your time so now the negotiation (and the clock) is starting over. It doesn't compute to the customer, but I guess this is the stripper math involved.

I don't think JVJ looks particularly bad here other than that isn't siding with the customer, which might be bad business in the long run. His description of DSS is right on, I think. (And I admit to never having been to DSS, but based on reading here I think it is pretty similar to the old F/Stop and somewhat similar to Assc.) I would describe DSS and Assc as strip club-type environment with a separate, but not private, VIP area where extras are available. It is not fair to compare this place to Julie's or other places like it as they are different. As I understand things, extras are worked out strictly between customers and dancers so there will be differences in pricing, etc. and management doesn't have the same control over these things as someplace like Julie's. OTOH, people seem to like DSS and Club AssC particularly because of the lack of ripoff factor. Prices may vary, but if you negotiate something, it shouldn't change when you get to VIP and you should get what you paid for. While the stripper math doesn't compute to me, if you really want to get the ripoff factor, try a mainstream strip club.

[nowman]

I'd just like to clarify one thing-

I've met Champagne and been in the vip with her as well, and I've found her to be a good conversationalist as well as provider, and certainly as FINE as anyone involved in this scene could ask for! I'm not inside her head, but I truly don't believe her intent was to rip any body off.

I also didn't mean to imply that the girls in this biz are "dirty" or their customers for that matter. However... due to my time spent on the supplier side you do tend to see peoples darker sides and behaviour.


Peace and love to all in 2004!!!!

[Slinky Bender]

Originally posted by nowman
I've met Champagne and been in the vip with her as well, ................................ I'm not inside her head


yeah..... but you were..............

[edouble]

Originally posted by slinkybender
yeah..... but you were..............


.............................

[Casper]

Originally posted by nowman
[B] However... due to my time spent on the supplier side .....................[B]

hmmmmmmmm :)

[BAD4NDY]

1. Edouble says he was in there for about 10 to 15 mins, so technically his time was almost up if this is judged by the underground rules.

2. Technically she was right and somewhat logical in asking for another $100 if she was on the up & up.

3. She is a hustler so she was trying to make the most out of a bad situatin with Edouble.

4. Word of advice, talk to these chicks before you end up dancing with the devil.

[Hawley Griffin]

JVJ

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seams youre taking the position that you have DSS set up so that guys can come and do their own negotiation in a private club setting. The guys can choose to get laps or do a VIP (but "buyer beware" because some of these girls are ROB's) but ultimately the responsibility falls upon the customer to be savy and aggressive enough to get what he wants.

Quite frankly, if that's what you're offering then I'm personally not interested. I can see how for some this would be what they would like (a safer and "classier" streetwalker environment), but from the advertisements Ive read of yours in the past, this is not what you've made this place out to be.

I believe that the majority of Johns on UG like guarantees and customer service friendly establishments with a middle range cost (anywhere from 200-400 for the night). While your place certainly can fall in that price range, you're even admitting that the other two criteria dont necessarily meet DSS standards. (dont get me wrong, I was there once and I didnt have any problems whatsoever, it was clean, friendly and having Magnifique tend bar is always a plus.)
You can see why places like Julie's or the like are so popular on the boards, altho they are akin to "wham bam thank you maam" service stations, there is a consistency of expectations and service desires are met and its usually not questionable as to whats going to happen when you pay your 250.

Yes, Julies and DSS are apples and oranges and they are two different unique settings, but if you want the best non paid advertising possible then try to meet your customer expectations better by more efficient hiring practices when it comes to the "independent contractors" (as you put it) invited to your club. Perhaps you might see a better business return thru repeat customers rather than having someone ripped off and unhappy.

There's an old sales saying, "Treat a customer well and you're lucky if he'll tells a few friends, treat them poorly and they'll tell everyone they know."

[JNasty69]

The girl is fine face and body wise... I was there about a week ago, she was the first girl I hooked up with from stepping through the door. From the start she explained to me it was 20 for a two song LD. In the middle of the second song, pizza was delivered... I could tell she had the munchies cause she looked blunted, so I told her go eat but you owe me a dance! After she ate, she came right back gave me another two songs. No extra charge! I will look for her again the next time...

[justme]

Originally posted by BAD4NDY
3. She is a hustler so she was trying to make the most out of a bad situatin with Edouble.

So what you're saying is that DSS is stocked with hustlers?

Because from the ads, I always got the impression that it was more of a standard service / standard price kind of place.

[justme]

(One positive effect of this thread is that it's compelling many people that seem to have been shy about posting before to come out and join the discussion.)

((Always good to have new blood.))

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by justme
So what you're saying is that DSS is stocked with hustlers?No, DSS is stocked with STRIPPERS.

Are they often one and the same thing, yep.

But I luv em anyway!!

Because from the ads, I always got the impression that it was more of a standard service / standard price kind of place. You need to reread the ads...

oops, they were all deleted :)

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by Hawley Griffin
JVJ

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seams youre taking the position that you have DSS set up so that guys can come and do their own negotiation in a private club setting. The guys can choose to get laps or do a VIP (but "buyer beware" because some of these girls are ROB's) but ultimately the responsibility falls upon the customer to be savy and aggressive enough to get what he wants.

Hawley, you’ve pretty much summed the underground scene in a nutshell. The “buyer beware” part is somewhat mitigated by the fact that we hand pick the girls we allow at DSS, and to my knowledge there are no “Rip off bitches “ working there. Mosta the girls will give you very good value for your money. And yes, if you are savvy you’ll do better in both price and performance. Experience helps in this environment as it does in most places.

This is particularly true for a place a place like Club ASS-C NYC, where the 40-60girls make the environment more competitive for the dancers in essence, a “buyer’s market”. Customers, who know what they’re doing, walk into the place with a fairly low number they want to spend for a certain service, and almost always find it.

Quite frankly, if that's what you're offering then I'm personally not interested. I can see how for some this would be what they would like (a safer and "classier" streetwalker environment), but from the advertisements Ive read of yours in the past, this is not what you've made this place out to be.

What’s happening is that you’re reading something based on YOUR EXPECTATIONS into the ads I posted that wasn’t there. The only phrase that describes what goes on at DSS is “Stage Dancing and Shows – Lap Dancing – VIP” There has never been ANY explicit statement in our ads of what actually goes on besides a few suggestive pics and a description of the shows.

I believe that the majority of Johns on UG like guarantees and customer service friendly establishments with a middle range cost (anywhere from 200-400 for the night). While your place certainly can fall in that price range, you're even admitting that the other two criteria dont necessarily meet DSS standards. (dont get me wrong, I was there once and I didnt have any problems whatsoever, it was clean, friendly and having Magnifique tend bar is always a plus.)

I agree, it seems mosta you guys want a totally predictable situation down to which position the girl is willing to do and whether or not DFK, BBBJTQNS, greek or whatever else your particular prediliction might be, is on the menu. Personally, that kinda predictability bores me. For me, it’s like finding out the end of a cliff hanging thriller before you go see the movie.

I appreciate that you readily admit that you had a good time at DSS without problems.

You can see why places like Julie's or the like are so popular on the boards, altho they are akin to "wham bam thank you maam" service stations, there is a consistency of expectations and service desires are met and its usually not questionable as to whats going to happen when you pay your 250.

Yes, I can see that. DSS, Club ASS-C NYC or any underground strip / lap dance club aren’t for everybody. Like I said before, if that’s what your’re looking for, you’re in the wrong place.

Yes, Julies and DSS are apples and oranges and they are two different unique settings, but if you want the best non paid advertising possible then try to meet your customer expectations better by more efficient hiring practices when it comes to the "independent contractors" (as you put it) invited to your club. Perhaps you might see a better business return thru repeat customers rather than having someone ripped off and unhappy.

The point is, that I disagree edouble was actually ripped off. I don’t disagree that he left unhappy that day, I only wish he had expressed his concerns to us so we could have addressed them then. I did see him on Wednesday at Club ASS-C NYC and he seemed pretty happy there.

There's an old sales saying, "Treat a customer well and you're lucky if he'll tells a few friends, treat them poorly and they'll tell everyone they know."

The thing is, we go out of our way to treat customers very well, as the overwhelming proportion of our (now deleted) reviews state.

Since they pay us to work there, we consider the DANCERS our customers too!! We provide a service to both the pervs and the dancers. Sometimes their interests diverge, but mosta the time they don’t. This thread was the result of divergent interests. We have to tread a fine line on occasion to help reconcile those interests. I think we’re pretty good at it. It doesn’t mean that we have to agree that the dancer is always wrong and the perv is always right. Cause to us, they’re BOTH customers and like most things, there’s a HUGE GREY AREA.

In my initial post, I coulda just said yes edouble, that bitch ripped you off and I’m gonna kick her ass when I see her next. All you guys woulda been happy with that kinda response. However, I thought it would be better to make clear just what a customer can expect when he visits DSS. By being aware of the rules of the game, you’ll be assured to have the great time we intended when we built this place.

[Hawley Griffin]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs


[What’s happening is that you’re reading something based on YOUR EXPECTATIONS into the ads I posted that wasn’t there. The only phrase that describes what goes on at DSS is “Stage Dancing and Shows – Lap Dancing – VIP” There has never been ANY explicit statement in our ads of what actually goes on besides a few suggestive pics and a description of the shows

Part of what expectations I had (and many others) has to do with the forum in which you chose to advertise.

In this case a whoreboard.

So how could the regular UG john expect much different? Altho I dont think an advertiser should be forced to make every little nit-picking disclaimer about their place and thus bring up more faults and foibles than pluses and reasons to attend, HOWEVER, with every commercial we see/read, if there's an obvious omission or something that a customer might expect due to pictures or where the commercial is displayed, they mention it. (alibet in small print or quick reading but they still do it, ie "Batteries not included" "Ken doll sold separately", etc.)

So at least youve done the right thing and made it clear that its possible you might be hustled at your place. (however late it may be)

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by Hawley Griffin
Part of what expectations I had (and many others) has to do with the forum in which you chose to advertise.

In this case a whoreboard.

So how could the regular UG john expect much different? Altho I dont think an advertiser should be forced to make every little nit-picking disclaimer about their place and thus bring up more faults and foibles than pluses and reasons to attend, HOWEVER, with every commercial we see/read, if there's an obvious omission or something that a customer might expect due to pictures or where the commercial is displayed, they mention it. (alibet in small print or quick reading but they still do it, ie "Batteries not included" "Ken doll sold separately", etc.)

So at least youve done the right thing and made it clear that its possible you might be hustled at your place. (however late it may be)

I think by calling our establishment an “Underground LAP DANCE Club” and not a whorehouse actually fulfilled that obligation. It should have led you to believe that it wasn’t a traditional whorehouse and therefore something different. The fact that YOU weren’t cognizant of just what a lap dance club was until now isn’t my fault. As for the hustling aspect of the biz, fact that you’re dealing with STRIPPERS says it all.

I don’t think that you’d expect Julie’s type service at Club Babylon, (one of who’s dancers is a regular at DSS BTW) despite that they advertise on UG.

I am however; glad that this discussion will enable new customers to come in with the correct expectations. This will enable to have the kind of enjoyable experience that we're known for.

[Hawley Griffin]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
As for the hustling aspect of the biz, fact that you’re dealing with STRIPPERS says it all.

So we can expect 20 dollar air dances?

[nycstripclubs]

If you go to Scores, you can.

However our lap dances are "Hands ON".

[Socketome]

What I've learned so far from this thread:

Stripper = Hustler (DSS/ASSCon/NYCStripclubs definition)

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
No, DSS is stocked with STRIPPERS.

Are they often one and the same thing, yep.

But I luv em anyway!!

You need to reread the ads...

oops, they were all deleted :) [/B]

I remember those ads. They used to say something like "A place run by pervs for pervs". But now, it seems more like "a place run by hustlers for hustlers". The management not only makes excuses for the "strippers" (hahahaha - these girls aren't strippers - they're hookers. What more proof could you need than management has had a policy of not hiring any girls who worked at ASSCon who would not "VIP"?), but makes thier own hustles as well:

examples:

They advertise "naked twister nite" and then blame not enough customers showing up for not actually having naked twister.

They advertise $3 beers and then conveniently "forget" that they did it.

They advertise reduced VIP room prices and then conveniently "forget" they did it (and blame it on one partner not telling another about it - do these guys even know what goes on in their own place?).

And, of course, the guy making all the posts and excuses denies he's even part of management to begin with half the time (except when it's time to get some freebies from the "strippers").

[Socketome]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
As for the hustling aspect of the biz, fact that you’re dealing with STRIPPERS says it all.

More like "fact that you’re dealing with STREETWALKERS says it all".

[Hawley Griffin]

The bottom line for me is that whether or not I think JVJ made enough implications that I might experience a hustle and better be prepared but rather I know now for sure that its a real possibilty for many of us, and as vanilla as that may be for me to say this, I'd rather go somewhere else that has the customer's best interests in mind.

[justme]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
No, DSS is stocked with STRIPPERS (As opposed to Hustlers).
Are they often one and the same thing, yep. [/B]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs

The “buyer beware” part is somewhat mitigated by the fact that we hand pick the girls we allow at DSS, and to my knowledge there are no “Rip off bitches “ working there. [/B]

Umm...

[Socketome]

Can anyone else get a reading?

My bullshit meter doesn't count that high.

PS Originally posted by nycstripclubs
I personally threw a dancer out of Club ASS-C NYC a few weeks ago when a customer informed me she didn’t perform as agreed.

I heard she now works at DSS.

[justlooking]

I'll bet Valjean would say there's a difference between a Hustler and a ROB.

[justme]

Is it the same as the difference between Stripper Math and Streetwalker Math?

[John99]

Originally posted by justme
Is it the same as the difference between Stripper Math and Streetwalker Math?

I think that you guys are being a little hard on Jean...I think at the end of the day, his place is great. Overall, it is a great environment, with good talent, at a reasonable price. But there is room for improvement.

What Jean does is very difficult. Most of these girls are penny wise and pound foolish. They seem to naturally gravitate towards a quick buck (even if they have to hustle the customer, or be slightly shady) rather than going for a little less tonight and earning a lot more over time with repeat business. It is Jean's job to try and help the girls see the light.

Most of the girls at DSS tend to be pretty straight up. If you compare the amount of hustle at DSS versus ASCON or other clubs and places, it is considerably lower. That does not mean it does not happen. But I think Jean does a fair job of picking the most straight up girls to work at DSS.

Jean has a difficult balancing act. On one hand, he would probably love to come down hard on the girls. If he does not come down hard enough, he pisses off the clients. If he comes down too hard, he can lose the girls. I don't envy his position. As difficult as his position is, I don't think he handled in the best possible way. Although I think Jean is customer friendly, I don't think he came off that way in this thread.

Jean does have a really good point...he asked the person with the complaint not to wait and bitch about it on these boards, but to go to the manager on duty the evening of the incident, and he will do his very best to rectify the situation. It is very difficult to do it later for various reasons.

However, what Jean could have done here is not sound like he is sticking up for the girl, and not coming off like "hos are hos, and there ain't much you can do about it. I think you are getting a great service for a low price, so stop complaining."

What happened is kind of an unusual circumstance. The guy went in for one thing and changed his mind and wanted to "upgrade" his service. What is Jean's policy about this? He never made it clear what DSS's policy is on this issue. I believe he should have. Also, he did not make it clear what he does do to try to prevent these types of problems...it seems like he was saying "too bad, your on your own fellas." It may have been too late to talk to the specific girl, but he could have said he would talk to ALL the girls and tell them that if the client want's to upgrade in the middle of the session, they can't raise the fee.

At Julies, for example, she has a code of conduct that she expects from both clients and the girls working for her. Clients know generally what they can expect from Julie and the girls. When things go wrong, and people complain, she acts on it immeidately. (Julie's has a web site for members only, so you see a lot of these issues get worked out semi-publically.) When a girl get's numerous complaints, she fires them. She has even asked for clients input on whether she should fire a particular girl who had gotten a series of complaints, but was popular with a lot of customers as well.

If this situation happened with Julie she would have apologized to the client, reiterated what her policy is on the matter and what clients can expect from the girls, asked the person to contact her so that they can discuss the specifics in private, and she would say that she would look into what happened and try to take action to avoid it from happening again.

You walk away feeling that Julie is proactive, and is doing everything in her power to make sure the clients and girls are happy ,and everyone is being treated fairly. I don't think Jean left most of the readers of this thread with that impression.

[BMJ]

Originally posted by John99
I think that you guys are being a little hard on Jean...I think at the end of the day, his place is great. Overall, it is a great environment, with good talent, at a reasonable price. But there is room for improvement.

What Jean does is very difficult. Most of these girls are penny wise and pound foolish. They seem to naturally gravitate towards a quick buck (even if they have to hustle the customer, or be slightly shady) rather than going for a little less tonight and earning a lot more over time with repeat business. It is Jean's job to try and help the girls see the light.

Most of the girls at DSS tend to be pretty straight up. If you compare the amount of hustle at DSS versus ASCON or other clubs and places, it is considerably lower. That does not mean it does not happen. But I think Jean does a fair job of picking the most straight up girls to work at DSS.

Jean has a difficult balancing act. On one hand, he would probably love to come down hard on the girls. If he does not come down hard enough, he pisses off the clients. If he comes down too hard, he can lose the girls. I don't envy his position. As difficult as his position is, I don't think he handled in the best possible way. Although I think Jean is customer friendly, I don't think he came off that way in this thread.

Jean does have a really good point...he asked the person with the complaint not to wait and bitch about it on these boards, but to go to the manager on duty the evening of the incident, and he will do his very best to rectify the situation. It is very difficult to do it later for various reasons.

However, what Jean could have done here is not sound like he is sticking up for the girl, and not coming off like "hos are hos, and there ain't much you can do about it. I think you are getting a great service for a low price, so stop complaining."

What happened is kind of an unusual circumstance. The guy went in for one thing and changed his mind and wanted to "upgrade" his service. What is Jean's policy about this? He never made it clear what DSS's policy is on this issue. I believe he should have. Also, he did not make it clear what he does do to try to prevent these types of problems...it seems like he was saying "too bad, your on your own fellas." It may have been too late to talk to the specific girl, but he could have said he would talk to ALL the girls and tell them that if the client want's to upgrade in the middle of the session, they can't raise the fee.

At Julies, for example, she has a code of conduct that she expects from both clients and the girls working for her. Clients know generally what they can expect from Julie and the girls. When things go wrong, and people complain, she acts on it immeidately. (Julie's has a web site for members only, so you see a lot of these issues get worked out semi-publically.) When a girl get's numerous complaints, she fires them. She has even asked for clients input on whether she should fire a particular girl who had gotten a series of complaints, but was popular with a lot of customers as well.

If this situation happened with Julie she would have apologized to the client, reiterated what her policy is on the matter and what clients can expect from the girls, asked the person to contact her so that they can discuss the specifics in private, and she would say that she would look into what happened and try to take action to avoid it from happening again.

You walk away feeling that Julie is proactive, and is doing everything in her power to make sure the clients and girls are happy ,and everyone is being treated fairly. I don't think Jean left most of the readers of this thread with that impression.

And Julie would probably have offered a "freebie" with such an unhappy experience.

[aum_zen_buddha]

Originally posted by BMJ
And Julie would probably have offered a "freebie" with such an unhappy experience.

Yeah, and the peel of an apple is generally tasty whereas the peel of an orange is generally inpalatable.

[aum_zen_buddha]

Originally posted by nowman
I'd just like to clarify one thing-

I've met Champagne and been in the vip with her as well, ..... However... due to my time spent on the supplier side you do tend to see peoples darker sides and behaviour.

It is clear that you are a restauranteur who eats from his restaurant. Thank you.

[nowman]

MR Buddah-


In reality I AM actually a restauranteur, as well as nightclub owner. Now maybe I'm hyper sensitive but it seems that the way you "chopped" up my words implies that I'm shilling. Anyone on this board that knows me at all can tell you that's not my style. In fact when I had F/STOP (and I was allowed to B.S. my ass off) I refrained from that because of inherent distaste for it!

[BMJ]

Originally posted by aum_zen_buddha
Yeah, and the peel of an apple is generally tasty whereas the peel of an orange is generally inpalatable.

WOW....Too deep for me..........

[aum_zen_buddha]

I wouldn't eat in a restaurant from which the owner didn't eat. That's all. Life is simple. So am I. ;)

[aum_zen_buddha]

...nevermind....

[nowman]

Just so we're all on the same page... I'm NOT a partner in THAT restaurant. However I have earned frequent flyer miles for the amount of times I've been there!!


P.S. If you find life to be simple, I would love to meet you and have you explain life to me.

[Casper]

Life is like a box of chocolate poontang .........

[justlooking]

Valjean doesn't need me to respond to posts for him, but the point is that DSS doesn't have policies like you guys are discussing. That's not the way DSS is run.

If you want a guaranteed level of service, you've got to go somewhere like Julie's. DSS isn't gonna satisfy you. Risk is inherent in places like that. Some guys can tolerate that -- some guys prefer it -- and some guys don't.

Now, unlike Valjean, I'm not trying to come across as saying that the DSS model is superior and the kind of guys who like Julie's are too wimpy. Frankly, I stay away from the streetwalker types at DSS (and get branded a racist for it) because I can't tolerate hustles like Champagne's. But guys have got to understand what they can expect from a place, and not insist a place be like somewhere it's not.

[dupadupa]

Originally posted by edouble
Now my situation might be strictly my shit, it has nothing to do with the staff but more of a gripe with the chicks.

Thank you for the heads up!!!. Let your $ speak for you. Dancers that treat you right will be rewarded with your hard earned $'s. Dancers who hustle might get away with some $ in the short run, but will certainly lose out in the long run. I for one will not give my $ to Champagne based on your review and comments. File this under lesson learned and stay away from this girl. I know that certain girls at DSS offer a certain level of service. But, if we want to try a new girl then we have to deal with the risk of dealing with an unknown.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by justlooking
Valjean doesn't need me to respond to posts for him, but the point is that DSS [B]doesn't have policies like you guys are discussing. That's not the way DSS is run.

If you want a guaranteed level of service, you've got to go somewhere like Julie's. DSS isn't gonna satisfy you. Risk is inherent in places like that. Some guys can tolerate that -- some guys prefer it -- and some guys don't.

Now, unlike Valjean, I'm not trying to come across as saying that the DSS model is superior and the kind of guys who like Julie's are too wimpy. Frankly, I stay away from the streetwalker types at DSS (and get branded a racist for it) because I can't tolerate hustles like Champagne's. But guys have got to understand what they can expect from a place, and not insist a place be like somewhere it's not.

I concur. One of the reasons I go to DSS is exactly that I have no idea what I can expect until I get there and survey the scene. Sometimes that is what I want. That is, I have low expecations for DSS. So after I have spent $$, (the same as I would have spent for service at another venue). I can feel that DSS was great because the evening exceeded my low expecations. Eventually, my expecations will be readjusted upwards with consistent service and then I may feel differently.

If I want predictability and certain guaranteed service levels then I go to providers that I know will perform to those levels.

Lately, the guaranteed service level and providers are not what I am looking for.

JL: I think that it would be more helpful ii you have specific reviews and comments for each girl Champagne, Sade, Petite, etc. I agree with you that I would avoid certain girls there. But to based that decision on a generalization without specific facts limits your risk but also limits your potential rewards. Sometimes, I take the $10 hit to find out what the situation is.

[nycstripclubs]

JL, I never said that the DSS model is better or worse than the Julie's model, just different. I never called those guys who like predetermined outcomes wimps.

I'm one of those guys that understand and enjoy the negotiation process that goes on to combat the "hustle factor" that ALL strippers use try to manipulate you. I personally prefer not knowing exactly what the outcome will be, cause I like pushing the envelope. I enjoy the "game" of mutual manipulation that gets played out in this environment. Often, I just play the "game" and never even get to the VIP part.

ALL the dancers at DSS originate (at least to my knowledge) in some kinda strip club, either mainstream or underground. Many continue to work in those clubs in addition to DSS. If you're calling those dancers who are not white, "streetwalker types" yeah, that definitely sounds racist to me. If you think the white girls who work this scene don't hustle, you're sadly mistaken. Some of them have the best "game" (hustle), cause the whole idea is fo you NOT to notice it. I get to talk to the girls when they're not working, and like Nowman said, we get a very different view of this process.

BTW, yes, in my book there is a VERY big difference between a dancer who hustles and a ROB. An ROB steals outright, a dancer who manages to wheedle a coupla more dollars out of you is a hustler. Hustling is just part of the game.

[justlooking]

Let's be honest with each other, Valjean. Girls who offer sexual services regularly to ALL customers and have pimps are streetwalkers, not strippers. Even if they work some clubs. That just makes them indoor streetwalkers. Although I'll bet most of those girls have a lot of outdoor experience also.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with streetwalkers per se, although I personally don't have the stomach for them. But guys shouldn't fool themselves about what type of service provider they're dealing with, just because the venue looks a little different.

[Slinky Bender]

Originally posted by justlooking
Although I'll bet most of those girls have a lot of outdoor experience also.

You mean like when The Red Zone had a bar-b-que in the backyard?

[justlooking]

We need more of that.

I know this is a minority opinion, but I think the buffets at Big D parties are like terrible. It's really the only place where I think his fabulous service level falls down.

[Cat_Ballou]

Originally posted by justlooking
I think the buffets at Big D parties are like terrible. JL, is it a mid-life crisis thing that's prompting you to insert the word "like" into so many of your sentences, or is all that talk of mascara just making you nostalgic?

[justlooking]

You know. They're not absolutely terrible (the wings are even sorta digestible if you don't drink too much after them). They're just "like" terrible.

[Cat_Ballou]

Okay, they do say language evolves. But I think "kind of terrible" would sound less adolescent...

[justlooking]

There's something wrong with sounding adolescent on a whoreboard?

[justlooking]

Or let me put that more accurately:

It's possible not to sound adolescent on a whoreboard?

[Cat_Ballou]

Originally posted by justlooking
It's possible not to sound adolescent on a whoreboard? That's just a cop-out...

[justlooking]

I could tell you the real reason I use "like", but I wouldn't want to say it in public.

[Cat_Ballou]

Originally posted by justlooking
I could tell you the real reason I use "like", but I wouldn't want to say it in public. Because it helps ingratiate you with teenaged strippers if you sound like a teenager yourself?

[justlooking]

They're not reading this board (I hope).

[Cat_Ballou]

Originally posted by justlooking
They're not reading this board (I hope). Naaah, I'm sure they're too busy reading, like, Plato, y'know?

[justlooking]

You'd be surprised.

(Seriously, the number of strippers I've discussed Plato with in, say, the last three months is amost in the double digits.)

[Cat_Ballou]

Whatever you say, dear...

(BTW, just you talking while she nods and says "Like, really?" doesn't count as discussion...)

[justlooking]

I have a feeling you don't go to strip clubs a lot, Cat.

(I can tell you from my perspective that I wouldn't spend much time talking to someone who just nodded and said, "Like really?")

[Casper]

What if she was blowing you while she nodded?

[Cat_Ballou]

Originally posted by justlooking
I have a feeling you don't go to strip clubs a lot, Cat. That's why you make the big bucks, JL...

[h. von bingen]

a man of great intelligence once told me that you, jl, were a man of great tolerance. like felix the cat i tip my head to both of u.

[jseah]

Originally posted by Cat_Ballou
JL, is it a mid-life crisis thing that's prompting you to insert the word "like" into so many of your sentences, or is all that talk of mascara just making you nostalgic?

maybe he just got back from an extended stay in southern California.....

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by justlooking
Let's be honest with each other, Valjean. Girls who offer sexual services regularly to ALL customers and have pimps are streetwalkers, not strippers. Even if they work some clubs. That just makes them indoor streetwalkers. Although I'll bet most of those girls have a lot of outdoor experience also.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with streetwalkers per se, although I personally don't have the stomach for them. But guys shouldn't fool themselves about what type of service provider they're dealing with, just because the venue looks a little different.

JL, I'll agree they're protitutes cause they have sex with you for money. However, calling them streetwalkers just because they happen to be women of color sounds if not racist, at least derogatory to me. I'll bet you'd be surprised just how many of the white, supposedly renegade boho girls, you prefer, have "managers", LBF's, husbands, daddys, or whatever you wanna call them, of some sort even when you pick them up at a mainstream club. Because of certain socio-economic advantages, like a little education, they're able to hustle you at a higher level; ultimately roping you into giving them 3 or 4 times what the girls at DSS or Club ASS-C NYC ask. As far as I'm concerned, it's ALL "stripper shit". I think it's you who's fooling himself. I don't think they're hangin out with you cause you can discuss "Rememberances of Things Past", look like Brad Pitt, or are hung like John Holmes. Even if you take them out to dinner first, it's only the size of your WALLET that matters to them.

[Socketome]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
However, calling them streetwalkers just because they happen to be women of color sounds if not racist, at least derogatory to me.

How about if he's calling them streetwalkers because they are streetwalkers?

[edouble]

on a totally differnet topic val whos the chick that works at dss that also works at club babylon?

[nycstripclubs]

I'm not gonna out her here, cause there's a chance CB might see this thread and it' might mess up her gig there. I remember reading in one of those CB threads that CB frowns on the girls working elsewhere. I'll bet you know her tho, cause I actually met her at Dumbartons and Big D's parties a coupla years ago. Ask me when you see me, if she's there, I'll point her out.

[John99]

Originally posted by justlooking
Valjean doesn't need me to respond to posts for him, but the point is that DSS doesn't have policies like you guys are discussing. That's not the way DSS is run.

If you want a guaranteed level of service, you've got to go somewhere like Julie's. DSS isn't gonna satisfy you. Risk is inherent in places like that. Some guys can tolerate that -- some guys prefer it -- and some guys don't.

Now, unlike Valjean, I'm not trying to come across as saying that the DSS model is superior and the kind of guys who like Julie's are too wimpy. Frankly, I stay away from the streetwalker types at DSS (and get branded a racist for it) because I can't tolerate hustles like Champagne's. But guys have got to understand what they can expect from a place, and not insist a place be like somewhere it's not.

With due respect, I simply don't get your point. All you are saying is they don't work that way. We know they don't work that way. The question is if they can change the way things work for the better. Is it possible. If not, why?

It seems that one of the arguments here is some guys like the fact that there is a chance they can get ripped off. That, that risk somehow adds to the experience. With due respect, I think most guys would feel better knowing there is a basic code of conduct. Although they don't know exactly what they are going to get with a particular girl, they can walk in feeling they are not going to be swindled. And that management has done everything in their power to prevent people from getting swindled.

Two years ago if you said "I don't like place X because it is a dump." Many people would have said, that is the nature of the beast, these places are dumps. DSS did not accept that. They built a nicer, more professional, better place. I'm suggesting they just continue trying to improve upon the model.

[justlooking]

Unlike Julie's, DSS doesn't employ the women who work there (even if brothels try to pretend their employees are independent contractors). DSS doesn't pay the women who work there. The women pay DSS. Therefore, as Valjean keeps saying, DSS views the "dancers" as its customers as much as it views the pervs as its customers. And the payments it gets from the "dancers" provide a significant part of its income, too.

So DSS can't piss off its "dancer" customers by trying to make them change their service model to something they and their managers won't accept. It can't afford to. Those girls are just as much their customers as you are, and they want to please the girls just as much as they want to please you.

As I said, if you don't like that model, go somewhere with a different one.

[justlooking]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
JL, I'll agree they're protitutes cause they have sex with you for money. However, calling them streetwalkers just because they happen to be women of color sounds if not racist, at least derogatory to me. I'll bet you'd be surprised just how many of the white, supposedly renegade boho girls, you prefer, have "managers", LBF's, husbands, daddys, or whatever you wanna call them, of some sort even when you pick them up at a mainstream club. Because of certain socio-economic advantages, like a little education, they're able to hustle you at a higher level; ultimately roping you into giving them 3 or 4 times what the girls at DSS or Club ASS-C NYC ask. As far as I'm concerned, it's ALL "stripper shit". I think it's you who's fooling himself. I don't think they're hangin out with you cause you can discuss "Rememberances of Things Past", look like Brad Pitt, or are hung like John Holmes. Even if you take them out to dinner first, it's only the size of your WALLET that matters to them.

This is going to sound like Wwanderer talking to me, but you're so hung up in your own world view that you can't see that there might be anything outside it.

I don't want to get into a big fight about this, but on a per-minute basis I pay the women I "date" out of mainstream clubs about the same as I pay the women at DSS or ASSCon. The service, on the other hand, is incomparbly better. Because -- this I'll agree with you on -- at ASSCon and DSS all the girls of all ethnicities tend to give what most johns would characterize as streetwalker service: no kissing, default assumption of covers for blow jobs, time rush, one orgasm and it's over (unless you offer an additional payment), etc.*

I don't recall ever saying that my Stripper "Friends" don't "date" me for the money. Of course they do. I'd be frightened if they didn't. But if you think who I am, personally, doesn't have something to do with it, then you just don't get these girls.

In any mainstream club, there are girls who'll have sex with just about anyone. They tend to charge a lot, though (at least if you don't negotiate very hard with them). And they often provide the same kind "streetwalker" service I described above.

Most of the rest of the girls in any mainstream club will "date" some guys -- but generally only guys they know/"like" (on some level)/feel comfortable with. You get much better service from these girls. And you don't have to pay as much, either (and you don't have to negotiate AT ALL). But, they've got to know/"like" (on some level)/feel comfortable with you. Luckily for me, there are some of these girls that like it if you can quote from Rememberance Of Things Past. The others don't "date" me.

As for who really are streetwalkers, though, you can't really think that LBFs are equivalent to pimps. Can you?

And you can't deny -- not honestly, anyway -- that a FAR greater percentage of the women of color at DSS and ASSCon are pimped out than the White Girls. Can you? Really?

[Socketome]

Originally posted by justlooking
And you can't deny -- not honestly, anyway -- that a FAR greater percentage of the women of color at DSS and ASSCon are pimped out than the White Girls. Can you? Really?

I think you'd have to find them (i.e. the white women) first. using standard census version definition of white (i.e. "white non-hispanic"), are there any currently working at DSS? (Is Veronica still there? Is Sherry still there? Have I missed any?).

[Socketome]

Originally posted by justlooking
Unlike Julie's, DSS doesn't employ the women who work there (even if brothels try to pretend their employees are independent contractors). DSS doesn't pay the women who work there. The women pay DSS. Therefore, as Valjean keeps saying, DSS views the "dancers" as its customers as much as it views the pervs as its customers. And the payments it gets from the "dancers" provide a significant part of its income, too.

So DSS can't piss off its "dancer" customers by trying to make them change their service model to something they and their managers won't accept. It can't afford to. Those girls are just as much their customers as you are, and they want to please the girls just as much as they want to please you.

As I said, if you don't like that model, go somewhere with a different one.

I think part of the problem is that DSS is trying to ride both sides of the fence on this one:

They want to pretend that they are running the place "by pervs for pervs". If that's the case, they then can't act like the girls are their real customers. They further this by setting rules of conduct, like "enforcing" $10 lap dances on certain nights (although "enforcing" might be to strong a word, since this appears to be pure advertsing bluster, and that on the $10 lap dance nights the only thing which happens is that the girls who feel like giving $10 lap dances give them - so how does it make these nights different from any other nights, when the girls who feel like giving $10 lap dances give $10 lapdances?).

They also say that if customers bring "issues" to their attention immediately, tht they will "deal with it". Well, i don't know what they mean by "deal with it", but whatever it means, the implication is that they will "enforce" some sort of "managemnt" over the girls.

In addition, the girls are fined if they miss shifts, so there's some "management" going on there as well.

Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with trying to please one of their income sources (i.e. the dancers). But it is disingenuous to advertise "run by pervs for pervs", advertise specials which then evaporate, blame customers for just about any disagreement, pass off any poor behavior on the part of the women working there as simply "stripper shit", deny the fact that there are girls there with pimps/are streetwalkers, and attack anyone who tries to point these things out as racists. (It's interesting that no one ever seems to get labeled a racist when they say they prefer Asian girls, Hispanic girls, or Black girls. They are only racists if they prefer White girls).

And they also "regulate", to some extent, dancer's behavior by insisting that they perform some "minimum service level" to gain "employment" (or watever it is that you want to label the arrangement as).

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by justlooking
As for who really are streetwalkers, though, you can't really think that LBFs are equivalent to pimps. Can you?

And you can't deny -- not honestly, anyway -- that a FAR greater percentage of the women of color at DSS and ASSCon are pimped out than the White Girls. Can you? Really?

If you're using "streetwalker" as a level of service, then it seems to me as useful a term as GFE because the service varies greatly from girl to girl. As far as I know, the dancers who work at DSS don't work a track and are therefore NOT "streetwalkers". I'm pretty sure they'd take great offense at this discussion calling them street hoes. What we don't allow at DSS is entire "stables" or "crews" to work there. Those girls do sometimes work the street if they don't make their money in another venue.

As for the women I've met working in this industry, as far as I'm concerned, LBF, unemployed husband, and pimp are pretty much all one and the same, if the woman prostituting herself is the primary source of their income. For some of these girls, their "pimp" is their three year old child. Being "pimped out" is not as clear cut a term as you would make it out to be.

I wouldn't be so sure about the percentages. While the percentage is somewhat greater with women of color, it's not as great a difference as you might think.

[justlooking]

Thanks.

As far as we have a dispute about the underlying facts, we obviously aren't gonna be able to resolve it by going back and forth on this board, and I appreciate your knowledgeable input.

When you equate some single mother's 3-year-old baby with a pimp, though, we're getting into a REAL disagreement that's not just on facts -- and which, I have to say, casts some doubt on your factual statements.

Look, everybody who does ANY job is working to support SOMETHING. But for you to say that some mother who feels she has to turn tricks to support her child, but works for herself, is the same as some girl whose business is run by a "manager" who takes all her money and gives her a place to live, drugs, and weekly stops at the beauty parlor -- well, not only do I disagree with you very strongly, but I have a feeling most of the guys who read this board will, too.

Look, some guys aren't bothered by dealing with pimped-out girls. They don't care if their money is going back to some guy who's running her, turning her out and living off her ass. Some guys are bothered by that. But don't try to tell us guys who are that it's the same thing as if the woman were working to feed and clothe her child.

[nycstripclubs]

I used the three year old to exaggerate the point. However, when you get to LBF vs Pimp, the distinction isn't so clear.

Those guys that are bothered by the money going to pimps will have a VERY hard time distinguishing those girls who have them and those who don't. I continue to be surprised at some of the revelations I get over time.

[justlooking]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
I used the three year old to exaggerate the point. However, when you get to LBF vs Pimp, the distinction isn't so clear.

Those guys that are bothered by the money going to pimps will have a VERY hard time distinguishing those girls who have them and those who don't.

Maybe. But there are LBFs and there are LBFs.

Most of the girls I see who have boyfriends may be supporting the boyfriends, but the boyfriends aren't running their sex businesses. I know this because we spend so much time and energy going behind the boyfriends' backs.

My own personal feeling -- which is nothing more than that -- is that it's none of my business what a girl does with the money I give her. If she wants to support some unemployed drummer, that's her call. But it's different to me if the money doesn't even go to the girl, and the girl doesn't even choose what to do with it, as in the pimp situation.

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
I continue to be surprised at some of the revelations I get over time.

THAT is something I think we couldn't agree on more.

[argleby]

Originally posted by Socketome
(Is Veronica still there? Is Sherry still there? Have I missed any?).

Not to change the subject, but I was wondering this myself. Do Veronica and/or Sherry still work there?

[argleby]

Originally posted by Socketome
(Is Veronica still there? Is Sherry still there? Have I missed any?).

Not to change the subject, but I was wondering this myself. Do Veronica and/or Sherry still work there?

[JNasty69]

This thread started because Edouble thought that .6/$ split was, I get a bj for 15min if I don't cup, the chick has to finish me off for another .4! Since it's was her bad service skillz to fault ,I can talk her down to take .4 more and get it over with... Champagne felt that she did her best for .6, he wasn't satisfied and wanted to start a whole new F/S date for a $... Since the cover was already on him just give me another .6 and we'll be even! I feel she was right to ask the whole $, he would have to pay a $ if he got up switched girls plus for the VIP again, so it was a win/win deal. Edouble never asked what the half and half rate was! Most guys know half and half is more than straight F/S... Chaulk this one up to bad communication, on both sides and move on guys! Edouble I can't blame him for trying to get as much as he could for his money, but to get mad the way he did wasn't my style! The Negotiations is one of the best parts of the game for me!!!

lets do the math
bj .6
f/s $
separately that's $.6
Edouble wanted both for a $
half and half she requested was $.2
that's still .4 off for the bad bj...

If he kept this up maybe he could of got it ?
Negotiations is the name of the game!
This is what I read from his story, so why get mad and rip the condom off and storm out ? lol :)

[Truth]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Socketome
They further this by setting rules of conduct, like "enforcing" $10 lap dances on certain nights (although "enforcing" might be to strong a word, since this appears to be pure advertsing bluster, and that on the $10 lap dance nights the only thing which happens is that the girls who feel like giving $10 lap dances give them - so how does it make these nights different from any other nights, when the girls who feel like giving $10 lap dances give $10 lapdances?).

On nights when $10 dances aren't advertised, you have to haggle with the girls to get that price and perhaps some guys aren't comfortable doing that, whereas on the nights $10 dances are advertised, any girl that does a dance better only expect a 10-spot regardless of who she is and regardless of whether price was discussed.

They also say that if customers bring "issues" to their attention immediately, tht they will "deal with it". Well, i don't know what they mean by "deal with it", but whatever it means, the implication is that they will "enforce" some sort of "managemnt" over the girls.

It could mean the gentleman who brought up the "issue" to management is somehow compensated for an "incident", which allows him to leave satisfied. As JVJ said 4 pages ago, when you don't do that but rather come here and complain, that's much harder to accomplish.

But it is disingenuous to advertise "run by pervs for pervs", advertise specials which then evaporate, blame customers for just about any disagreement, pass off any poor behavior on the part of the women working there as simply "stripper shit",

You make it sound like stuff like this happens all the time over there. All of this started over one incident with one girl. Usually it only takes a single complaint to open the flood gates and the fact that others haven't jumped with "yeah stuff like that's happened to me there, too" tells me it doesn't happen often.

Anyone that likes or expects 100% guarantees is better off betting on one-horse races.


deny the fact that there are girls there with pimps/are streetwalkers

He didn't deny that. He said there's plenty of white girls in the business, perhaps not at DSS, in similar "pimp/SW" situations, that fly under your radar precisely because they're white.


And they also "regulate", to some extent, dancer's behavior by insisting that they perform some "minimum service level" to gain "employment" (or watever it is that you want to label the arrangement as).

Thank goodness for that. Who wants to go to DSS and have 10 girls there but only 2 who do VIP?

[justlooking]

Originally posted by JNasty69
Most guys know half and half is more than straight F/S...

Should we take a poll?

My vote: I've never heard of that either from a prostitute or a stripper.

Where do you know it from? (If your answer is "streetwalkers", I'll start crowing.) (If your answer is "massage parlors", I'll just say that this is a different model from what guys who frequent either strip clubs or non-street prostitutes are used to.)

[Socketome]

Originally posted by Truth
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Socketome
They further this by setting rules of conduct, like "enforcing" $10 lap dances on certain nights (although "enforcing" might be to strong a word, since this appears to be pure advertsing bluster, and that on the $10 lap dance nights the only thing which happens is that the girls who feel like giving $10 lap dances give them - so how does it make these nights different from any other nights, when the girls who feel like giving $10 lap dances give $10 lapdances?).

On nights when $10 dances aren't advertised, you have to haggle with the girls to get that price and perhaps some guys aren't comfortable doing that, whereas on the nights $10 dances are advertised, any girl that does a dance better only expect a 10-spot regardless of who she is and regardless of whether price was discussed.

They also say that if customers bring "issues" to their attention immediately, tht they will "deal with it". Well, i don't know what they mean by "deal with it", but whatever it means, the implication is that they will "enforce" some sort of "managemnt" over the girls.

It could mean the gentleman who brought up the "issue" to management is somehow compensated for an "incident", which allows him to leave satisfied. As JVJ said 4 pages ago, when you don't do that but rather come here and complain, that's much harder to accomplish.

But it is disingenuous to advertise "run by pervs for pervs", advertise specials which then evaporate, blame customers for just about any disagreement, pass off any poor behavior on the part of the women working there as simply "stripper shit",

You make it sound like stuff like this happens all the time over there. All of this started over one incident with one girl. Usually it only takes a single complaint to open the flood gates and the fact that others haven't jumped with "yeah stuff like that's happened to me there, too" tells me it doesn't happen often.

Anyone that likes or expects 100% guarantees is better off betting on one-horse races.


deny the fact that there are girls there with pimps/are streetwalkers

He didn't deny that. He said there's plenty of white girls in the business, perhaps not at DSS, in similar "pimp/SW" situations, that fly under your radar precisely because they're white.


And they also "regulate", to some extent, dancer's behavior by insisting that they perform some "minimum service level" to gain "employment" (or watever it is that you want to label the arrangement as).

Thank goodness for that. Who wants to go to DSS and have 10 girls there but only 2 who do VIP?

Hey, Truth;

You know what the problem with your argument is?

It's compelling, but not the truth!!!!!

OK:

a) "On nights when $10 dances aren't advertised, you have to haggle with the girls to get that price and perhaps some guys aren't comfortable doing that, whereas on the nights $10 dances are advertised, any girl that does a dance better only expect a 10-spot regardless of who she is and regardless of whether price was discussed."

On nights wheere $10 laps have been adverised, more than one girl has "refused to participate", and management has given them a "pass" to do so.

b) "You make it sound like stuff like this happens all the time over there. All of this started over one incident with one girl. Usually it only takes a single complaint to open the flood gates and the fact that others haven't jumped with "yeah stuff like that's happened to me there, too" tells me it doesn't happen often. "

The initial post in this thread may have been about "one incident", but there have been MANY times when adverised "specials" haven't "occured". From $10 lapdances to lesbian shows, to "naked twister". So much so, that DSShas now changed it's advertising to announce that these events will only actually occur "if enough customers show up". I guess it's happened enough times now that they feel the need to to make general discalimers about such stuff. that's a far cry from "one incident".

c) "It could mean the gentleman who brought up the "issue" to management is somehow compensated for an "incident", which allows him to leave satisfied. As JVJ said 4 pages ago, when you don't do that but rather come here and complain, that's much harder to accomplish."

And he also seems to want to blame the customers for all the problems, and pass off all the poor behavior as "stripper shit". Seeing that, how likely is it that a guy is going to feel comfortable going to management rather than coming here (to a sympathetic audience) to complain about it?

d) "Thank goodness for that. Who wants to go to DSS and have 10 girls there but only 2 who do VIP? "

I don't disagree, but it makes it harder to belive some of the claims of management, especially as regards to the girls being "totally independant", with managemnt "not telling them what to do" (same follows for "complaint resolution": how do they resolve vcomplaints if all they are willing to do is say "it's only stripper shit, stop complaining"?).

e) "He didn't deny that. He said there's plenty of white girls in the business, perhaps not at DSS, in similar "pimp/SW" situations, that fly under your radar precisely because they're white.

If you don't read that he is denying it, then we're going to just have to agree that we disgree (but I'd be surprised if anyone else here saw it your way).

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by argleby
Not to change the subject, but I was wondering this myself. Do Veronica and/or Sherry still work there?

Veronica went out of town, but should be back later this week or next week.

Sherry was at DSS 3 days last week and should be in this week too.

[h. von bingen]

cher jean:

i know this is all work for you, and you do not alleviate the tedium of the 9 to 5 with posts hereupon, but i'd like to tell you that i wish you could contribute elsewhere. your posts are always of great interest to me.

yours,
hvb

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by h. von bingen
cher jean:

i know this is all work for you, and you do not alleviate the tedium of the 9 to 5 with posts hereupon, but i'd like to tell you that i wish you could contribute elsewhere. your posts are always of great interest to me.

yours,
hvb

Merci, I'll try. However, somehow I feel in doing so, that UG would stop being "la recherche du temps perdu" cause I'd have actually found it.

Peace,
Valjean

[John99]

Originally posted by justlooking
Unlike Julie's, DSS doesn't employ the women who work there (even if brothels try to pretend their employees are independent contractors). DSS doesn't pay the women who work there. The women pay DSS. Therefore, as Valjean keeps saying, DSS views the "dancers" as its customers as much as it views the pervs as its customers. And the payments it gets from the "dancers" provide a significant part of its income, too.

So DSS can't piss off its "dancer" customers by trying to make them change their service model to something they and their managers won't accept. It can't afford to. Those girls are just as much their customers as you are, and they want to please the girls just as much as they want to please you.

As I said, if you don't like that model, go somewhere with a different one.

My family has run a very successful business for over sixty years that acts as an agent between empolyers and employees in a specialized field. All of the women who work through us are freelancers, yet they must adhere to very specific guidelines on conduct, wages, ethics and protocol. Our business has control over every aspect of how business is conducted between employer and employee. The business is so successful, we have never advertised for either employers or employees, and run a half a million dollar a year business based on word of mouth and reputation.

So the notion that DSS cannot influence or set standards for the behavior of the women who work at DSS because they are freelancers is obviously not true.

Your second point that DSS cannot enforce standards because they would just piss off the girls. All I can say is that the women who work at Julies are really no different than the women who work at DSS. Julie has proven that it is indeed possible to enforce some code of conduct over the women who work through her, without losing her stable. The women who work at Julies are freelancers as well. They are not employees of Julies. No doubt this is a very difficult balancing act, but it is possible to do successfully.

Regarding your comment that if i don't like the model, then go somewhere else. I am not sure how that is a really consructive response to this discussion. I am a customer of DSS. I am a supporter of DSS. I am not bashing them because I want to be an ass. I want DSS to succeed and I am sharing my opinon to try and help DSS succeed. Jean can run his business any way he sees fit. As I may comment and make suggestions as I see fit. That is part of the purpose of this board.

In practice, it is not a matter of me using DSS or not. But many of us have limited funds. The question is what percentage of my hobbying budget am I going to spend at DSS versus a place like Julies. I am simply giving suggestions that I believe will help DSS increase market share...and increase the amount of money that I will personally spend at DSS.

Studio 5 got a little lazy and complacent, and did not listen to it's customer base. As a result, DSS was able to capatalized on thier shortcomings and took a significant portion of Studio 5s market share. To think that someone isn't capable of doing the same to DSS is nieve. In business, there will always be someone nipping at your heals ready to open up a competing business that will try to capatalized on your weaknesses. Julies has been around for well over a decade. I hope DSS will be as well.

[h. von bingen]

thank you for your charming response.

absent more posts could u give me your mother's recipe for madelines or introduce me to that asscon girl madeline -- whichever requires the least negotiation?

dutifully,
hvb

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by John99
So the notion that DSS cannot influence or set standards for the behavior of the women who work at DSS because they are freelancers is obviously not true.

Your second point that DSS cannot enforce standards because they would just piss off the girls. All I can say is that the women who work at Julies are really no different than the women who work at DSS. Julie has proven that it is indeed possible to enforce some code of conduct over the women who work through her, without losing her stable. The women who work at Julies are freelancers as well. They are not employees of Julies. No doubt this is a very difficult balancing act, but it is possible to do successfully.

Thanks for your well thought out response. We do enforce a code of conduct with the dancers who work at DSS. We are HIGHLY selective of which girls are allowed in the door. HOWEVER, we WILL NOT tell anyone at what price to sell their services (and esentially themselves). (The single exception is the $10 lap dance advertized on specific days. We have gained begrudging agreement from ALL the dancers. ((Talk about listening to your customers!))We believe that market forces will take care of pricing in a strip club culture where negotiation is the norm.

That is completely opposed to the model of a place like Julies where the girls are EMPLOYEES. They can't set prices or what's on the menu. Being able to do so is the essence of being an independant contractor.[/size][/font]

Regarding your comment that if i don't like the model, then go somewhere else. I am not sure how that is a really consructive response to this discussion. I am a customer of DSS. I am a supporter of DSS. I am not bashing them because I want to be an ass. I want DSS to succeed and I am sharing my opinon to try and help DSS succeed. Jean can run his business any way he sees fit. As I may comment and make suggestions as I see fit. That is part of the purpose of this board.

In practice, it is not a matter of me using DSS or not. But many of us have limited funds. The question is what percentage of my hobbying budget am I going to spend at DSS versus a place like Julies. I am simply giving suggestions that I believe will help DSS increase market share...and increase the amount of money that I will personally spend at DSS.

DSS isn't supposed to be for everybody at every time. It was never meant to be. DSS fills a specific niche - Lap Dance / VIP Club. We try to do that well.

However, if that's not what you want, we can't help you. If you're looking to sprawl out with a $500/hour hooker on a king sized bed, you won't find it at DSS. If you're looking for a $200 prix fixe menu, you won't find it here either.

[Socketome]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
On the other hand, If you're looking for HIGH MILEAGE lap dances (and are a good negotiator with a tight grip on your wallet), wild stage shows (if enough customers show up) or VIP from attractive STRIPPERS (but not like the one's in our ads), at reasonable prices (except if one of our strippers pulls "stripper shit" on you, or you can't keep up with Donald Trump in the Negotiaing Dept; make sure to have your girl sign a notarized statement of what she's agreed to before you enter the VIP room; management not responsible for upcharges or lost articles......), you will find it at DSS

[justlooking]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
Merci, I'll try. However, somehow I feel in doing so, that UG would stop being "la recherche du temps perdu" cause I'd have actually found it.

Peace,
Valjean

So why should your life be any more efficient than the rest of ours?

[danger-us]

Anone have an idea of what (approximate) percentage of girls at DSS will DFK? How about BBBJ?

[edouble]

Originally posted by danger-us
Anone have an idea of what (approximate) percentage of girls at DSS will DFK? How about BBBJ?

there are about three girls that work there on and off that i have had bbbj from. one of which who does dfk, while the other two are very very light lfk.

[justme]

Originally posted by justlooking
And you can't deny -- not honestly, anyway -- that a FAR greater percentage of the women of color at DSS and ASSCon are pimped out than the White Girls. Can you? Really?

So?

(But I'll need to be shown the post where you claimed that a woman was a streetwalker because she was a woman of color. I must have missed that one.)

[justme]

Originally posted by Socketome
If you don't read that he is denying it, then we're going to just have to agree that we disgree (but I'd be surprised if anyone else here saw it your way).

Heh. Maybe there are imminent streetwalkers there.

[Slinky Bender]

You know, the one girl who I got DFK and BBBJ from there was white, and never pulled anything remotely like "stripper shit" on me.

[danger-us]

Originally posted by edouble
there are about three girls that work there on and off that i have had bbbj from. one of which who does dfk, while the other two are very very light lfk.

So, basically, it's the exception. The vast majority will not kiss or do bbbj.

I will say that if these girls are incredibly hot, like strippers from the better clubs, DSS would have something great in spite lacking in services. If these girls are no better looking than girls from the better $200-$300 houses, I would find it to be a huge rip off.

[Slinky Bender]

d-u,

If you're looking for better looking girls than, say kamasutra, ambiance, etc, I think you'd be disapointed.

[John99]

Originally posted by slinkybender
You know, the one girl who I got DFK and BBBJ from there was white, and never pulled anything remotely like "stripper shit" on me.

I'd bet a buck it was veronica. She rules.

[edouble]

Originally posted by John99
I'd bet a buck it was veronica. She rules.

;)

[badgoat]

Just a couple more thoughts on this tired subject.

1. My first intuition is to side with the provider here. 10-15 minutes is a long time. A lot of us would say the deal is done right there. In addition, if the guy has some trouble getting to the finish line w/the first option, who's to day (no offense here) that he'll get there in roughly the average amount of time w/the second option. A rational provider could take this into account and decide that a little higher price scale is justified in this guy's case b/c he might need extra time.

2. Even if you disagree with #1, you can still accept that as a reasonable point of view. If you're trying to decide if someone is trying to rip you off, I think you need to give some benefit of the doubt. Personally, I only accuse others of malicious behavior if it's pretty clear. I think most people here would either agree w/the provider or at least admit that it's debatable. Relmember, the question is whether she was trying to rip him off, i.e., whether her demands were or were not reasonable. You can decide that it would have been MORE APPROPRIATE for her to have acted a different way (lower demands) but still think that her behavior/demands were within the range of reasonableness.

3. As for JVJ, I think it's obvious (and this has been said) that he has two sets of customers: the guys and the providers. The conclusion to be drawn from that I'm not sure has been said. A lot of guys are upset that JVJ doesn't simply take their side all the time, and are bothered that JVJ needs the providers as much as he needs them. Well, l I tell u what, that means that JVJ has an incentive to be NEUTRAL. If you're reasonable, you should be able to live with that. I do think that at times he could be a little bit more diplomatic with his posts (and though he changed the famed Twister Party ad, I don't think he ever did concede that the prior ad could reasonably be viewed as deceptive), but I think he has every incentive to call them straight up.

[BrazenFella]

Originally posted by badgoat

3. As for JVJ, I think it's obvious (and this has been said) that he has two sets of customers: the guys and the providers.

Is it true the girls are forbidden to work elsewhere (these are the girls comments not mine)?

[Socketome]

Originally posted by BrazenFella
Is it true the girls are forbidden to work elsewhere (these are the girls comments not mine)?


I think they are only barred from working at certain other places (hows that for sleazy, strong arm tactics?).

[justme]

Wait, I thought this was a door fee / tip out arrangement for the 'dancers'.

[Theshrinkster]

Have followed this thread and have several similar ones.

One problemo, am at a loss to finding more info about the club scene. Would like to try out a night at DSS, ASS-Con or Studio Five but don't know where they are or how to find out about them.

Any info would be very welcome.

[nycstripclubs]

Unfortunately none will be forthcoming.

In addition, the posts WE PAID FOR have been deleted (hows that for sleazy, strong arm tactics?).

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by justme
Wait, I thought this was a door fee / tip out arrangement for the 'dancers'. It is

[Theshrinkster]

If direct info is not permitted, how about some clues as to how to research out the information I need?

Have $$$$ in my pocket and want a change from the AMP's and 1hour services.

Need assistance!!!!!!!!

[newextreem]

Originally posted by Theshrinkster
If direct info is not permitted, how about some clues as to how to research out the information I need?

Have $$$$ in my pocket and want a change from the AMP's and 1hour services.

Need assistance!!!!!!!!

click on banner in ad section

[Slinky Bender]

Originally posted by nycstripclubs
Unfortunately none will be forthcoming.

In addition, the posts WE PAID FOR have been deleted (hows that for sleazy, strong arm tactics?).

It's intersting that in the last discussion I had with JVJ, he claimed that the review threads on DSS were something he had paid for.

I'm also at a loss how anyone with half a brain could think that paying for advertising in any time period could think such advertising was entitled to stay up after they stopped paying for it. It's like a guy paying for a billboard complaining that after he stopped paying for it, that the building owner took it down.

Bye, JVJ.

PS "The thief's hat is on fire".
"A guilty conscience needs no accuser"
Does anyone know any other similar expressions from other cultures which express this same concept?

PPS I can't wait to see the excuses which get trotted out as to how their business going down the tubes is somehow my fault.

[jseah]

Originally posted by slinkybender
Bye, JVJ.


Y'know......watching the two of you argue is like watching your parents fight and get a divorce.........

[justlooking]

Except that unlike your parents getting a divorce, THIS is really important.

[Slinky Bender]

Originally posted by jseah
Y'know......watching the two of you argue is like watching your parents fight and get a divorce.........

Well, then as the bad child, you know it's all your fault.

[BMJ]

Originally posted by slinkybender
Well, then as the bad child, you know it's all your fault.

Bad, bad slinky.

[joe_playgirl]

I went to DSS for the first time on Tuesday. All in all, I had a good time. The women are very beautiful. Most of them were black, but I did see one latina, one white and 2 asians. All the women were worthwhile. My only complaint about the place is that they allow smoking. HELLO?! No place allows smoking anymore. It was not easy explaining to my wife when I got home why I reeked of smoke since I'm not a smoker.

[justlooking]

I'm a non-smoker, and the fact that they allow smoking is one of the things I like about DSS.

[jseah]

Originally posted by justlooking
I'm a non-smoker, and the fact that they allow smoking is one of the things I like about DSS.

you're such an anarchist.......

[Thorn]

Originally posted by John99
I'd bet a buck it was veronica. She rules.

Yes, she is one mighty aphrodite, she is.

However, she will be retiring very soon.

I wish I could say it was because I had hit the lottery and was moving her into a little studio and paying her way though Julliard out of the goodness of me... ah... heart. But that just isn't so.

She will be missed, and she will be moving on.

[Thorn]

Originally posted by badgoat
Just a couple more thoughts on this tired subject.

1. My first intuition is to side with the provider here. 10-15 minutes is a long time.


You are a bad goat, aren't you.

If you think 15 minutes is a long time you haven't been involved in the underground scene for very long.

The whole experience is predicated on 15 minutes not being a particularly long time. Sure, there are clients who stop by at a down low, do some kind of sprint session and leave.

That isn't the norm.

The norm is, and always has been, someone spending a relatively long, relaxed, time in the company of a dancer once he has made his selection.

That option has been one of the main draws of this kind of scenario. Remove it and it becomes simply a "quickie" house. And if one wants that kind of experience there are many choices better then a down low club to experience that.

The dancers, should they want to go that route, will be the death of any establishment allowing that to take place, as one of their major draws will have disappeared.

[Thorn]

Originally posted by justlooking
Except that unlike your parents getting a divorce, THIS is really important.

Man, I heard that.

[aum_zen_buddha]

Originally posted by Socketome
I think they are only barred from working at certain other places (hows that for sleazy, strong arm tactics?).

That's not only sleazy it's stupid. Don't they realize what pissed off girls do? I guess they don't want to stay open much longer.

[remsenst]

Originally posted by justlooking
I'm a non-smoker, and the fact that they allow smoking is one of the things I like about ***.

It actually helps cover all the oils and perfume the women put on. At least it did for me!

[danger-us]

Originally posted by remsenst
It actually helps cover all the oils and perfume the women put on. At least it did for me!

And what is your excuse for smelling of smoke? Any of you?

[justlooking]

Taxi cab.

[danger-us]

I'm looking for girls who give lap dances with Marlboros hanging out of their mouths. I love the sensation of hot butt coals singeing my thighs.

[h. von bingen]

Originally posted by justlooking
Taxi cab.
u get away with THAT? jeez.

[BMJ]

Originally posted by justlooking
Taxi cab.

Dumb wife.

[justlooking]

NOW WAIT ONE FUCKING MINUTE

[remsenst]

Originally posted by danger-us
And what is your excuse for smelling of smoke? Any of you?

A bar in my old neighborhood, an "old man's bar" (I think at this pooint I'm an eligible member) totally disregards the no smoking ban. This is where I say I've been.

There are also cigar shops where you can smoke inside.

Or maybe a friend that smokes asked you over for a drink, or to have a talk, or whatever.

[BMJ]

Originally posted by justlooking
NOW WAIT ONE FUCKING MINUTE

I thought you like them dumb?

[justlooking]

NOW WAIT ONE FUCKING MINUTE

[danger-us]

Originally posted by justlooking
Taxi cab.

This is not only a believable story, it's the honest truth.

jl moonlights as a cab driver.

[danger-us]

I figured this out on my own.

The word hack is often used when refering to jl.

So I put it together: hack= taxi cab, jl = hack driver.

(That is what they meant, isn't it?)

[danger-us]

Although, I see jl more as the guy in charge, not just a lowly driver.

jl is more of a Louie Depalma.

[Casper]

He can't be that short.

[danger-us]

Would you suggest jl is more the Bobby Wheeler type?

[h. von bingen]

Originally posted by BMJ
Dumb wife.
i don't know much, but i know mrs. jl (although her name is probably something like ms. qx) is not the dumb one in that relationship.

[justlooking]

That's more like it.

[h. von bingen]

Originally posted by danger-us
I'm looking for girls who give lap dances with Marlboros hanging out of their mouths. I love the sensation of hot butt coals singeing my thighs. one of the my favorite things on earth. getting head while smoking.

[h. von bingen]

Originally posted by justlooking
That's more like it.
flip! -- a new leaf.


does it make my ass look fat? i always though david's made his dick look BIGGER.

[robnotbob]

who is doing the smoking?

[h. von bingen]

well first me and then me.

[jseah]

whew!.....for a second there, I was beginning to wonder where they put the butt......

[h. von bingen]

no diggit this is how it goes. you fluff the pillows and lay back and light up a smoke. it's very sensual. and i love the way a red pedicure looks wrapped around a guy's neck through a haze of blue smoke. i'm very aesthetically-oriented.

[Truth]

Helloooo 1985, Red nails are tacky.

(and stop hijacking threads with your shit that no one cares about)

[Truth]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Socketome
Hey, Truth;

You know what the problem with your argument is?

It's compelling, but not the truth!!!!!

Heh ... it must come from hanging around here with all these lawyers.


On nights wheere $10 laps have been adverised, more than one girl has "refused to participate", and management has given them a "pass" to do so.

I've never had this happen to me but i'll take your word for it and agree that those girls shouldn't be working those nights.


The initial post in this thread may have been about "one incident", but there have been MANY times when adverised "specials" haven't "occured". From $10 lapdances to lesbian shows, to "naked twister". So much so, that ***has now changed it's advertising to announce that these events will only actually occur "if enough customers show up". I guess it's happened enough times now that they feel the need to to make general discalimers about such stuff. that's a far cry from "one incident".

When i said "incidents" i meant dancer-customer incidents, not cancellations of lesbian shows or naked twister.


And he also seems to want to blame the customers for all the problems, and pass off all the poor behavior as "stripper shit". Seeing that, how likely is it that a guy is going to feel comfortable going to management rather than coming here (to a sympathetic audience) to complain about it?

I can only speak for myself and the one time i mentioned an "incident" in person i was treated with nothing but respect.

[argleby]

Originally posted by remsenst
A bar in my old neighborhood, an "old man's bar" (I think at this pooint I'm an eligible member) totally disregards the no smoking ban.

Could you tell me the name of this place? I've been dying for a place like this.

[Thorn]

Originally posted by aum_zen_buddha
That's not only sleazy it's stupid. Don't they realize what pissed off girls do? I guess they don't want to stay open much longer.

True.

One pissed off "dancer" ruined Tina's business for months. She may even be, ultimately, the reason she doesn't own [outright at any rate] her own place anymore.