New territory for me. What should I do?

[JackT]

The context: I never really ventured into the strip club scene for building a relationship that would lead to outside extras. But recently, I've found myself venturing into new territory -- there a particular hostess/bartender at a bar (not a strip club, but the girls are scantily clad) that I'd like to see whether she would be willing to have a little pay-for-play fun.
I'd like to inquire as un-awkwardly as possible (for me and for her). I'm sure if I just came right out and asked her if she'd do me for $$, I'd get slapped. To the extent she would be interested in such an arrangement, I don't want her to become offended by the way I ask her.


Questions for all you veterans of the turning-a-stripper-into-a-provider scene (or anyone else who doesn't mind weighing in):

(1) What are some lines, techniques or guidelines for subtly determining whether a "regular" girl is in the least interested in either play-for-pay or something a bit more vague (help with the rent, etc.)?

(2) What is an appropriate time to bring this up? -- as it stands now, I've only seen and talked with her twice, chit-chat flirting, bought her a couple of drinks, and tipped her decently.... I just don't have a lot of time (or money or patience) to devote to this "wooing" stage.

(3) Without the time, money or patience to devote to this "wooing" stage, is it even worth pursuing?

[tooma]

I have only tried it once, but it worked for me. When in conversation with the girl at the time she mentioned her bills or something like that. I said, "What you need is a SugarDaddy." From there we went on talking about it. It worked for me. Maybe even mention one of your buddies that has a Sugar Daddy relationship with a girl Maybe she'll bite and say she needs one of those.

[occasionalhobbyist]

Defering on this subject to any advice justlooking would give, here are my own recommendations. On the occasions where this strategy has been successful for me, I

1. look for the chance to express deep affection for the lady in question. ("you are soooooo good looking," or thus such expression.

2. act as though I am very nearly at risk of losing control of the limits and constraints imposed on me in the SC setting.

3. express the deeply held, sincere desire, that we could 'do more' or 'go further.'

4. complain about the inherent unfairness of the fact that, by the rule of law, she can go naked, but I must keep my pants on.

5. play the Charmer. (I don't think SC girls go for any other type.)

and

6. ask her if she ever does 'private dancing' and if there's a way you could contact her to arrange such an 'intimate encounter.'

I wouldn't be optimistic if she's a bartender. The above methodologies have only been tested and proven (remotely) effective in the context of a hot and heavy lap dance.

Best of luck, though. Let us know how it turns out.

[justlooking]

FWIW to anybody, I'd like to make something clear.

I don't "turn out" strippers. I don't try to play them. I don't try to be cute in raising any desire I might have to see them outside their clubs. I try to be completely up front with them. And I don't "woo" them, really. I get to know them over a period of time. If we seem to get along, I ask them if they'd like to take things outside the club. With the obvious indication that there's a monetary component -- because my own twisted personal morality requires that, because no matter what happens I'm still a customer (not an ordinary friend), and because I don't fool myself that many young women are going to be spending quality time with me without it (although I do flatter myself that it's often only part of why).

What I'm trying to say is that, despite the admittedly strange context and result I'm trying to reach, it really isn't different from my approach to anybody else.

Well, it's different in one way, which is going to make things a little harder for you with this non-strip-club bartender. Which is that, of course, strippers are already working in the sex industry, and I meet them as a customer in that industry. So the idea of sexual services for money is obviously already on the table, and all we're talking about is the nature and extent of those services.

Nevertheless, what I'd say you should do with the bartender is talk to her. See if you have any kind of rapport. If you do, try and turn the conversation to her monetary needs. You can then let on that you'd be willing to help her, if she wanted to go that way with you.

PS -- I'm assuming that this isn't a woman you could just go out with (either because you're married and don't want to "cheat" or because for whatever reason you can't imagine she'd go out with you recreationally). Because otherwise, you could just ask her out and not worry about raising that awkward monetary part.

PPS -- If the bar she works at is near the very bottom of Avenue A, we may be in a race.

[greekgirlinnj]

wow i have to say i agree with just looking..

get a feel for the girl and if she decides to meet outside the club

your in like flynn

[Slinky Bender]

Originally posted by justlooking
PPS -- If the bar she works at is near the very bottom of Avenue A, we may be in a race.

I thought he said it wasn't a strip club?

[justlooking]

The bar I'm talking about isn't a strip club either (although it's near one).

[justlooking]

I wouldn't try anything with the bartender at that strip club, BTW.

Although she's absolutely gorgeous, her boyfriend works on the floor there.

[JackT]

Thanks for all of your advice thus far.

JL: LOL, luckily for me, no, the bar is not on Avenue A -- I have no desire to race. Also, you are correct: I can't imagine that this woman would go out with me recreationally.

And, honestly, I'm not sure I'd want to devote the time/resources to do that. I mean, due to time/freedom/monetary/other constraints, I just DON'T go out recreationally with women that aren't my wife. All of my past "hobbying" has been pretty clear cut, roles-defined, payment-of-money-for-services-rendered (not to imply that they've been cold or impersonal transactions).

When in the strip club / bar context, however, it seems that there is a certain amount of time one must spend before the subject of pay-for-play is successfully broached. That's what I meant by "wooing" -- I didn't mean it in a pejorative sense.


Tooma: the "Sugar Daddy" idea is interesting. Considering one reference she made to money (expenses, etc.), it just may be the way to go. Still, talking about the "nature and extent of [her] services" will likely be awkward at best unless I devote the time to talking and getting to know her a whole lot better.

All of this is just so foreign to me -- not a smooth pick-up artist in any event, and I certainly haven't honed those skills in years of marriage and "hobbying".

[justlooking]

Maybe I'm a wimp, but I don't see how you can do this without devoting some time to getting to know her.

[tooma]

I agree with JL. You will most likely have to spend some "quality" time getting to know her. I say go for it, and if you don;t like it at least you won't question it again.

[TC123]

Jack, if this place is on Nassau, it is unlikely, but not necessarily impossible. I know most of te bartenders there, and if I am right about the place, please describe the woman (name if possible) and I might be able to give you a more specific answer.

[JackT]

Originally posted by TC123
Jack, if this place is on Nassau, . . . .

This is turning into a guessing game! It's funny you mention Nassau, because in the past I would frequent that place quite a lot . . . but the place I'm talking about in this thread is NOT the Nassau Bar.

(BTW, if any of THOSE ladies would be open to some "extras", that's something I'd like to hear about as well!)

[Slimmy]

Jack, your situation seems too complicated! Anything complicated i lose interest and isnt worth the effort! As far as strippers go, I have a line that I like to use, and believe it or not, it actually works sometimes. I just say to them "why dont you come to my office one day to dance for me". Some actually go for it while others brush it off. But at least I dont come out looking like a dirt bag when I say it! Now most of the time the ones that are interested, want way too much money so I dont pursue it anymore. As you know, strippers are way more expensive than regular providers.

[justlooking]

[forget it][I'm not going there today]

[jseah]

Originally posted by justlooking
[forget it][I'm not going there today]

were you planning to bring up the oil pan incident????

[justlooking]

I just don't think that everybody "knows" that strippers are way more expensive than prostitutes.

[jseah]

not everybody has the opportunity to study the master.......

[greekgirlinnj]

awwwwwwwww shit strippers get more perks

the ones at my gym get free memberships but i pay 450 a year
wtfffffffffffffffff

[justlooking]

I'm sure you were just joking, but this "the master" stuff can get out of hand. There's no magic to having some money and treating people like people.

[jseah]

yeah, well.....the "master" thing was a little tongue in cheek......just that very few have the time or patience you have to "invest" in strippers....

[justme]

Originally posted by justlooking
I just don't think that everybody "knows" that strippers are way more expensive than prostitutes.

Initial price... total cost of ownership...

[jseah]

Originally posted by justme
Initial price... total cost of ownership...

much lower ROI....

[JackT]

Originally posted by jseah
just that very few have the time or patience you have to "invest" in strippers....

For me, what I think I'm coming to realize, is that I doubt I really want to (or have the freedom to) "invest" the time, money or patience necessary to get to the point of possibly getting this bartender girl to consider seeing me for "off site extras."

Maybe it's a ROI or risk thing.... i.e., I'd feel like such a goofball & scumbag if after I patiently "invested" all of the time and money necessary to lay the groundwork and have her answer be in the negative. Maybe I'm the wimp. Or maybe just impatient when it comes to less-than sure things.

[JackT]

Originally posted by justlooking
I'm sure you were just joking, but this "the master" stuff can get out of hand. There's no magic to having some money and treating people like people.
Yes, but getting them to sleep with you (money or not). . . maybe not magic, but it's definitely a handy skill!

[Slinky Bender]

Think of it like a watching movie:

New releases are more money. There's Pay-per-view, rental DVD's, netflix (longer term rental), buy the DVD, etc. Some guys will only see a movie if it gets "two thumbs up", others will go if they like the box cover. Someitimes the box cover has great reviews, but if you look closely it's from a bunch of reviewers who you've never heard of (and they've just come off a free trip from the studio to see it). Sometimes there's a flick you think you'll like because you love th ewhole genre (but then there are always a few stinkers even in that genre). Sometimes a film is great right up until the ending, and then that spoils it (and sometimes it's not too thrilling most of the way through, but that surprise ending changes everything).

[justme]

God, if seeing prostitutes were as difficult as comming back from the video store in under an hour...

[hot4chicks]

Jack - IMHO, to truly enjoy the hobby, you have to get beyond the net present value and cash costs of it. Think of it as a puzzle, or finding 'Waldo' - its a challenge, like travelling elegantly. You'll never really succeed, but its fun.

And dont think of it as commercial sex, consider it more like paying tuition for lifes' great experiences. It'll be more fun, and the chase becomes intellectual and exciting. Plus you get laid.

What a hobby!

[justme]

consider it more like paying tuition for lifes' great experiences...plus you get laid

Awesome!

[justlooking]

DITTO!

[jseah]

Originally posted by hot4chicks
consider it more like paying tuition for lifes' great experiences.

I'd rather go with the student loan and worry about paying it off later.

[Bill Furniture]

Originally posted by justlooking
I just don't think that everybody "knows" that strippers are way more expensive than prostitutes.

Way more. They wanna be treated like princesses, while prostitutes have their rates already thought out.

[nycstripclubs]

Originally posted by Bill Furniture
Way more. They wanna be treated like princesses, while prostitutes have their rates already thought out.

DAYUM, and all this time I thought YOU were getting them for a bottle of cheap perfume! ;)

[nowhere man]

Remember the following:

If she plays for pay, she'll let you know about it, or at least give you a few strong hints of what she does. If she'd like to have sex with you (for free), she'll give you some hints too. Furthermore, any woman that you pick-up, already had her mind made up when she first saw you, way before you even approached her. They always do the choosing, not us. In general terms , a woman is the only one who knows whether you'll have sex with her.

[justlooking]

But what that leaves out is that there are women who don't as a rule play for pay, but who might have some compensated dates with you (even though they'd never oridinarily let you pick them up), if (a) you seem tolerable enough and (b) they need the money enough. That's just the grey area JackT may be in, so I think your advice would cause him to give up before he needs to in a situation where he well might be successful.

[justlooking]

What can I say? I guess our experiences are just different.

[TC123]

Often times, I'll ask, "Do you work anywhere else?" Sometimes they tell you yes or no, , say they go to school, or actually tell you where else they work, either stripping or not, which usually means they aren't providing.

If she's a provider, or even in the gray area, she'll often respond by smiling and saying, "What do you mean?". That tells you that it is at least a possibility.

If they ask that question without the smile, it could mean they are wondering if you mean stripping-related work, or "other" work, but that is a rarity. In that case, you could respond, "Whatever that means to you."

After 2 questions max, you will know whether it is a possibility worth pursuing or not. If not, you really haven't embarrassed yourself. On the other hand, if she's still smiling, well...

[justlooking]

THIS WOMAN DOESN'T WORK AT A STRIP CLUB. SHE'S JUST A BARTENDER. AT A NON-STRIP-CLUB.

[Slinky Bender]

So, using the above logic, I guess he should ask "So, do you work at any strip clubs?".

[Danielle]

My advice to you would be to pose the pay-for-play arrangement in a very open ended manner. Instead of coming right out with it, find some tactful way to let her know what you're thinking and make sure she has some way of contacting you if she's interested. I think it's important that she feel completely unpressured and in control of the situaion, and have some sufficient time on her own to mull it over and decide if it's something she really wants to do. You have to keep in mind that she may have never done anything like this before, and therefore does not want to feel like she's doing something dirty and wrong. Make her feel as safe and comfortable as possible. Make certain that you've gotten your offer accross and leave it standing. Don't bug her about it. She'll let you know when and if she's ready.

[justlooking]

Obviously, what Danielle says strikes me as exactly right.

I just want to say that I think TC's post suffers from the same flaw as nowhere man's. They're both assuming there are only two kinds of women: those who do and those who don't. Their approaches are designed to find the ones "who do" (and of course once you've found a woman "who does", it shouldn't be too hard to get her to do it). What I've been trying to say is that there are women "who don't" but who still might if the stars are alligned right. The issue then becomes, what can you do to persuade them to do something they don't ordinarily do (and might well find repugnant in the abstract), and to do it with you? You're not going to succeed by being cute or by using code words such as "do you work anywhere else". (They'd only understand the "code" if they were thinking in those terms already, but my point is that we're now talking about women who don't think in those terms at all.) You're going to get these women to engage in compensated relations with you, if at all, by making them comfortable with you and then raising the matter in an upfront (but, as Danielle says, unpressured) (and of course tactful) manner. Guys who follow TC's and nowhere man's approach are doomed to fail with any woman who isn't inclined to do stuff like that already.

[TC123]

Originally posted by justlooking
Obviously, what Danielle says strikes me as exactly right.

I just want to say that I think TC's post suffers from the same flaw as nowhere man's. They're both assuming there are only two kinds of women: those who do and those who don't. Their approaches are designed to find the ones "who do" (and of course once you've found a woman "who does", it shouldn't be too hard to get her to do it). What I've been trying to say is that there are women "who don't" but who still might if the stars are alligned right. The issue then becomes, what can you do to persuade them to do something they don't ordinarily do (and might well find repugnant in the abstract), and to do it with you? You're not going to succeed by being cute or by using code words such as "do you work anywhere else". (They'd only understand the "code" if they were thinking in those terms already, but my point is that we're now talking about women who don't think in those terms at all.) You're going to get these women to engage in compensated relations with you, if at all, by making them comfortable with you and then raising the matter in an upfront (but, as Danielle says, unpressured) (and of course tactful) manner. Guys who follow TC's and nowhere man's approach are doomed to fail with any woman who isn't inclined to do stuff like that already.

JL,

I usually enjoy your posts and that's why it was so disappointing to read this one. Perhaps it is you who are doomed to fail if you make a habit of misunderstanding posts, as badly as you have misunderstood mine. I am addressing the "gray area" women as well as a woman who is already inclined. If you are going after one of these gray area women because you really want her, would you stop wanting her if you found out she was already so inclined?

I doubt it. That is why the understatement works so well. If she's already thinking that way, great! If she normally doesn't, it can (and often does) at least get her thinking in those terms. If you can't get her to at least think in those terms, it is YOU are "doomed to fail with any woman who isn't inclined to do stuff like that already"

You asked for advice, and I tried to offer you the benefit of my experience. That's what the board is for. Either take the advice or don't. But to tell me I am not going to succeed this way with this type of woman, when it fact I have, shows a level of ignorance not normally found in your posts. I really hope it was an abberation.

[justlooking]

Hey I didn't ask anyone for advice. I didn't start this thread. I'm just kibbitzing.

[justlooking]

Seriously (and please understand I'm asking you a question, not trying to start an argument, because obviously I'd be happy to learn to do better than I do), if you go to a woman at her job which isn't in the sex industry and ask her if she works anywhere else, why would that plant any idea in her head that you want to have sex with her for money? What is it about that question that would plant that suggestion?

[TC123]

OK, my advice was more toward Jack's original question which was a bar where the women are not strippers, and may not even work in a strip club, but are scantily clad. Whether or not they work in the sex industry is a question for another thread, but that is what I was addressing. If they were COMPLETELY outside it (your latest post) I don't think I would approach it for money at all. I would approach it in a non-monetary way or not at all.

[justlooking]

Just to be clear, I was thinking of a bar like The Village Idiot or something. (It would be helpful if JackT gave us some clue -- although he appears to have already abandoned the idea any event.) Without starting the discussion you didn't want to start, would you say that's "in" or "out" of the sex industry? (I could see your saying it's "in", although I wouldn't agree.)

I personally think you can approach women in any walk of life about this kind of thing if you do it right. I personally think that the main difference in this regard between someone who works in a strip club and someone who's "completely outside" the sex industry is that it's easier to broach this subject with someone you met in a context already involving the exchange of sexual services for money. But I don't think less easy means impossible, or not worth trying.

[Danielle]

Originally posted by TC123
OK, my advice was more toward Jack's original question which was a bar where the women are not strippers, and may not even work in a strip club, but are scantily clad. Whether or not they work in the sex industry is a question for another thread, but that is what I was addressing. If they were COMPLETELY outside it (your latest post) I don't think I would approach it for money at all. I would approach it in a non-monetary way or not at all.

So, that comment you made before was addressing whether or not they work in the sex industry? Just my two cents - I don't believe that because a particular woman works at a strip club that that neccessarily makes her more likely than anyone else to have sex for money. And I also don't think that just because a woman doesn't work in the sex industry that that would make her less inclined to entertain the possiblity. JL is absolutely right. Women from all walks of life could be persuaded to accept the offer of pay-for-play if it was made appealing enough to them and they felt comfortable with it.

[clubber]

Danielle,
Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, but do you seriously think that if I walked up to 25 strippers in clubs and asked them to go "out" for money, and if I walked up to 25 women on the street and asked them the same thing, that I'd get the same number of them agreeing to do it either way?

I'd bet BIG that a higher percentage of strippers would go for the deal.

[justlooking]

Clubber, I think you (as others) are slightly missing the point.

The distinction here is between the kind of stripper who routinely has sex with customers for cash (the kind who see themselves as prostitutes) and the kind who doesn't. If you walk up to 25 strippers you don't know and ask them to have compensated sex with you right off the bat, a not-insignificant number will be the kind who see themselves as prostitutes, and so of course your success rate would be higher than with 25 random (non-strip-club) bartenders, waitresses, office-office-temps-cum-actresses/artists, etc. But we're talking now about excluding the stripper/prostitutes from the mix. I'm sure that, because they work in such a sexually-charged atmosphere, are already engaged in selling some form of sexual services for money, and tend to be more uninhibited than "normal" women, you'd still have a better chance with the non-prostitute/strippers than with the bartenders/waitresses/office temps, etc. But I don't believe the difference is an order of magnitude, as you suggest. And -- this is what I want to emphasize -- as far as I'm concerned, your approach in both cases would be essentially the same: don't raise it right off the bat, as your hypo has you doing. Because if you do, there's no way she'd agree.*
______________________________________________
* I'm a dreamboy wimp, but I don't see why anyone would even want to raise play-for-pay right off the bat with a non-prostitute. Speaking for myself, I don't make such offers until I know a woman well enough to know that I like her and would enjoy spending time with her. (And, of course, that kind of rapport is what makes it more likely she'd accept.) But what can I say: I'm a dreamboy wimp.

[TC123]

Originally posted by Danielle
So, that comment you made before was addressing whether or not they work in the sex industry? Just my two cents - I don't believe that because a particular woman works at a strip club that that neccessarily makes her more likely than anyone else to have sex for money. And I also don't think that just because a woman doesn't work in the sex industry that that would make her less inclined to entertain the possiblity. JL is absolutely right. Women from all walks of life could be persuaded to accept the offer of pay-for-play if it was made appealing enough to them and they felt comfortable with it.

Danielle, intellectually, I agree with what you say. My experience has been different, that's all. Remember, these are generalities, not predicters of any specific woman. JL made the point about some women working in a "sexually-charged" atmosphere may be a little less inhibited than the average woman on the street, and I think there is some validity to that. I would guess that any 25 women that work in this type of environment, as a group, get hit on more often than a random 25 women off the street. So, while they may have never done anythink like this before, they may have thought about it more, even just a little. And that means the door is slightly more ajar. Again, my comments are generalities which are inherently error-prone, and as such cannot be used to predict any one specific woman's response.

[justlooking]

You guys should all be sure to look at pswope's posts toward (what is as of the time of this post) the end of the "Russian Beyatches" thread.

[Slinky Bender]

Originally posted by Danielle
So, that comment you made before was addressing whether or not they work in the sex industry? Just my two cents - I don't believe that because a particular woman works at a strip club that that neccessarily makes her more likely than anyone else to have sex for money. And I also don't think that just because a woman doesn't work in the sex industry that that would make her less inclined to entertain the possiblity. JL is absolutely right. Women from all walks of life could be persuaded to accept the offer of pay-for-play if it was made appealing enough to them and they felt comfortable with it.

But this ignores some of these realities:

1) A woman who would take off her clothes in front of a room full of guys, is much more likely to have the mindset to entertain entering into "sex for $" than one who wouldn't,

2) For almost any woman, they probably wouldn't do it the first time they were asked. Maybe not the 20th time. So, a woman who works in a strip club is asked so many more times, that even if the inclinations were otherwise equal, the likelihodd that she had been persuasively asked enough times to "try it out" would be significantly higher if she worked in a strip club. And I don't think there is any argument that once a woman has done it once, the odds of another guy being able to persuade them to do it a second time are very significantly higher. And when you get to the 20th time..........

[Danielle]

I would have to agree with you guys about women who work at strip clubs being more sexually charged individuals. I guess I just don't like to be thought of as a ho. And I'm sick and tired of people assuming that I'd want to service them outside of the club because I'm a stripper. It's true that there are plenty of strippers who do perform extras outside, but then you also have the ones who never do and never will. And then of course, as JL pointed out, you have those women who might consider it although they've never tried it before. Probably because the particular offer appeals to them for one reason or another. (Is this what you all refer to as "private stock?")

[pswope]

Originally posted by slinkybender
But this ignores some of these realities:

1) A woman who would take off her clothes in front of a room full of guys, is much more likely to have the mindset to entertain entering into "sex for $" than one who wouldn't,




Although my evidence is strictly anecdotal, I have had numerous conversations with "dabblers' whose attitudes would suggest otherwise. While they are marginally comfortable w/ a sex for money scenario w/ a guy who passes the sex anyway test they are mortified by the thought of a)stripping in front of a bunch of guys and/or b) having to 'hustle' guys for money in a strip club mileau.

To the point Danielle makes in her last post,there is obviously a psychic difference between strippers and dabblers for each regards the others professional behavior to be more repellant ot their own values.

Clearly there is denial in both cases to help each type cope with behavior that for the most part they would rather not be engaging in.

[Slinky Bender]

You just failed "Logic 101".

The converse does not necessarily have the same truth value as the object. i.e. just because dabblers won't take their clothes off in front of men, doesn't mean the girls who do take their clothes off in front of men are less likely to become dabblers. If anything, it probably points out the opposite; that the girls who strip are probably more free "in general" than the dabblers, and probably have a fairly high degree of "whatever it takes", and probably would have a lower "would fuck for free anyway" need.

Go for the contrapositive and test that, and you'll ge closer to a correct truth value.

[TC123]

My head hurts.

[Wwanderer]

I have twice succeeded in getting a woman who had never had sex for money before to give it a first try with me. Both experiences were awful. In one case, there was no sex at all in the end. She showed up at my room already half drunk and then insisted on having a couple of more drinks from the mini-bar; then she started crying about not wanting to be a "whore"; then puking (in the john at least). I drove her home in her car and got a taxi back to my hotel. Bleah! In the other case, we did have sex, but she displayed the sort of animation, technique and enthusiasm I'd imagine from one of those blow-up sex doll contraptions. Double bleah!

I also had what I think was an agency girl's first "date" ever...or at least one of her very first few. That experience had its low points too but was also sort of fun in its way. Much better than the other two anyway.

-Ww

PS - Oh, I left out the important detail that the woman in the second case described in the first paragraph was a waitress in a bar, not a strip club though.

[Danielle]

This is probably fodder for an entirely new thread, but after reading all the previous posts, I begin to wonder. As a girl without provider experience, what do you guys feel comprises a good date with a provider? I'm just curious.

[Wwanderer]

Originally posted by Danielle
As a girl without provider experience, what do you guys feel comprises a good date with a provider? I'm just curious.

That's what all providers-to-be say!

-Ww

PS - Seriously, the answer is all over the map and depends on the guy, and his mood. But whatever it is they consider good, they call it either a GFE or a PSE. If you think this might be confusing, you are right.

[howardnotstern]

danielle--your question has no single answer, and is debated at length in this forum.

[pswope]

{on advice of counsel,withdraw the post)

[JackT]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I really appreciated the discussion, although unfortunately for me, it hasn't turned out all that well. Here's an update on my situation....

I've completely given up on the proposition. Finished. Done. Mission Incomplete. Failed.

After bi-weekly (sometimes weekly) visits to this particular bar, chatting with this particular sexy bartender, dropping hints, etc., I've determined that it's time to move on. I have nothing to show for this except her e.mail address and real name. And even the e.mail communications are discouraging. Maybe I've given up way too easily, but all said and done, this type of "hunt" wasn't even fun for me.

I think it takes a certain type of person/situation to pursue a pay-for-play relationship with someone who is not holding herself out as offering said relationship:

(1) you need an abundance of "free" time to invest in this cultivation of such a relationship (having an unsuspecting wife, little family-time accountability, a flexible job situation, working late nights certainly helps)
(2) you need an abundance of patience
(3) you need an abundance of available money
(4) you need to be able to have "game" and be able to take rejection/revulsion well
(5) you almost need to not have a conscience / in a sense, you are asking this woman for something that she (at the outset) has no intention/desire to give to you, and you have no idea what "can of worms" you may be opening up if the deal does actually get done.

Not me. I'm not much into "laying groundwork" regarding commercial sex. When I have an itch, I want it scratched... soon. I don't need her to "like me," I just want her to convincingly pretend that she does. (hey, if a UTR or Private Stock relationship simply dropped into my lap, then that would be wonderful, but I am finding that it is not worth it to me to try to cultivate such a relationship from scratch). Any thoughts?

[justlooking]

Here I was about to put up a post asking if you and the bartender were engaged yet.

[Slinky Bender]

Originally posted by JackT
And even the e.mail communications are discouraging.

I keep telling him e*mail isn't everything... but does he listen? :p

[JackT]

FWIW, my past 2-3 months of hobbying for me has confirmed that ability to e.mail hobbyists for backchannel confirmation/info/scoop prior to a session CORRELATES VERY HIGHLY with my overall enjoyment of that session. I'd almost given up on backchanneling (because to find someone's e.mail address has been made so damn inconvenient) until 2 really awful recent sessions I booked based solely on "publicly posted" reviews.

(you think if I put up a thread on UG asking for info on any decent-looking midtown daytime incall providers under 40 years old [ethnicity unimportant] offering half-hour FS/BJ/DFK for $100 or under, that I'd get any meaningful responses here?)

[justlooking]

One thing I'd say (seriously) is that your last post about *****s suggests that your preference runs to more of a sure thing. Which obviously is the opposite of the "new territory" you tried.

[JackT]

Very true. My preference runs to more of a sure thing (end result). That's not to say that I prefer a scripted session . . . I guess I just like to know that the ending will be happy, no matter she and I eventually get there.

[*********]

Don't you know not to mess with him. His cock is large and in charge, he's the bottom of a barrel.

[JackT]

.

[Cloud Nine]

Originally posted by justlooking
I'm sure you were just joking, but this "the master" stuff can get out of hand.

Do you take apprentices?

[h. von bingen]

Originally posted by justlooking
I'm sure you were just joking, but this "the master" stuff can get out of hand.

yeah, i think given what he claims to pull off "Jeanie" is much more appropriate.

[Wwanderer]

Originally posted by slinkybender
I keep telling him e*mail isn't everything... but does he listen? :p

In fact, it isn't anything unless you read it occasionally.

-Ww

[justlooking]

Originally posted by h. von bingen
yeah, i think given what he claims to pull off "Jeanie" is much more appropriate.

You caught me. I never did a thing with that cash machine.

[Sinful7]

It is really interesting reading the stories of the hunt.
Men are predators, they love to hunt, and take victory
in their catch.....now if only the hunt that easy.

But, let me remind you finding real (like) in the bar
is a small percentage, like the points on interest rates.
I once was told a secret you don't find relationships
they find you. It like walking down the street and you step
in dog shit, at first you might know it or smell it but than
the next thing you know it there and it stinks.

Remember the next time you want to pull a chick,
nonattachment is the key to attraction in the club,
and from seeing it from the inside outside alot of the
ladies has borderline personalities disorders, persoanl
baggage is the worst, when you just want to experience
some moments in life with someone.

I say most women look for providers, some look for campionship
few look to fuck, and they all want to be happy.